Hello,

As many of you know, I'm trying to transition four 1 yr-old cats off of kibble.  I've really appreciated your help and encouragement.  I've read a lot about people going off the deep end LOL trying to transition, and now I really understand what they were talking about!

I thought since I'm smack dab in the middle of the transition, it might be helpful for others down the road to read some details of what I've tried, so this will be a little long.


For those of you who know my story, please feel free to skip the book LOL and go straight to the questions at the end.  Thank you!

*These four are siblings : Two of these guys are mine, and two of them are my mom's who lives in the same building as I do, so I babysit all four of them together quite often.

The boys : 5.2 kg
The girls : 4 kg

(The vet told me the night before last that on the weight scale of 1 to 10, 5 being a healthy weight, that Mooch is about a 6.)



Here's what we've done:


2 months - 10 months :
Free-feeding dry with grains (Katz N Flocken, Wysong Nurture)
Giving some grain-free wet (Evo and later also Wellness)

11 months
A) Start trying 2-3 meals a day of 50/50 dry and wet, picking up food after 30 minutes
B) Nobody seems to be eating enough, so I start leaving food out until it's finished (although the wet never gets finished)
C) Start giving a bit less food hoping that hunger will inspire them to eat more wet
D) Start 25/75 dry and wet, putting bribes on wet like freeze-dried chicken, try to get them used to seeing meats at meals, putting down some at meal time though nobody eats them but Mooch
E) Start serving breakfast and dinner, and then giving them a meat snack for mid-day : usually steamed chicken breast

*After reading info that transitioning from kibble to wet that it's best to use a grain-free dry,....I buy Evo and Orijen dry (which they all used to eat as kittens but I'd stopped because they preferred the ones with grains and at that time I didn't know better about grains). I start mixing it in with their grain dry which I'm almost out of anyway, and then go to full grain-free.

*Also reading info on getting them used to seeing/smelling raw to slowly introduce them at mealtime, I begin to put out pieces of raw or cooked meats.

+ It is not recommended to serve raw meats when feeding grain dry due to differences of digestion time, and possibilities of bacterial growth in the stomach because of it (I've read that grain-free is all right....though I'm not sure why that would be as it is still dry and will digest much more slowly)

2~3 Weeks Ago
a) Everyone is eating grain-free, and poops are noticeably smaller, less stinky, and now every other day instead of every day.  But I'm worried nobody is eating enough and I feel like I've got to do a real song-and-dance for them to eat, putting bribes on the wet etc. and am throwing away a ton of wet every day.

Of all timing, the weather gets warm, and the kitties seem to have less energy...or are they constipated?....they aren't eating much (though I've read that eating more meat will mean that they need less input and have less output)...I start to hawk over their eating and pooping.

Since Mooch seems interested in meat, I give him a Nature's Variety raw turkey & chicken medallion to see his reaction to it, and he really enjoys it.  I start feeding this to him for breakfast with 1 tbsp of Evo dry (the others get 1 tbsp of Evo dry plus as much grain-free wet as they'll eat...which is only about 1~2 tbsp).

Dinner is 1 tbsp Evo dry and all the grain-free wet they can eat, again, only about 1-2 tbsp.

Hunger doesn't seem to be helping, and I'm starting to worry that they aren't eating enough, so I start serving a lunch (instead of a meat snack) since it seems they'll eat more wet when it's new and served with dry.

b) I start to notice some going to the litter box and producing nothing.  I begin to add pumpkin puree to their wet, and learn that grain-free can sometimes make for constipation.

c) Everyone is going poop every other day, and making very little.  They seem sleepy, but it's warm now so I can't tell if that's the reason.  But nobody seems sick or in pain, and when we have playtime, everyone is their normal selves.

d) I continue to give a little bit of dry and some tbsps of wet, and when they don't finish their wet (which is almost always), I put a bribe on it to get them to eat a bit more (bribes are : freeze-dried chicken, freeze-dried horse meat, freeze-dried chicken liver -- that one only Mooch will eat).

e) Starting to feel an ulcer coming on LOL.

*  Mixing dry and wet was a no-go.  Other no-gos were putting tuna juice, tuna flakes, steamed chicken, salmon, parmesan cheese.

5 Days Ago
I) I find a new wet food topper (this topper is the same brand and is very similar to a vacuum-packed chicken breast treat I give them often).   I try serving only wet with this topper.  To my surprise, it's a big hit and everybody eats the wet without noticing I haven't put down any dry.  (Nevertheless, there is still leftover wet.)

Mooch throws up a few hours later, but everyone else is fine.

I ask these forums for advice and it is suggested to me that it might be the Evo grain-free that is giving everyone toilet troubles.  I stop feeding the Evo dry and give the leftover grain dry I have and everyone is pretty happy about that.  I again start putting pumpkin puree into the wet food.

Mooch becomes lethargic and has a loss of appetite in the following days, not going poop (and zoning out) for three days when I take him to the vet.  They tell me it's just constipation and that it should just work itself out but to keep an eye on him.

Mooch poos.  I throw a party.

Since going off Evo dry, Chami is eating a lot more wet with her grain dry, and is acting totally spastic and energetic, and has made a couple fabulous poops.  (Yoyo and Lulu have been at their own home for the last few days.)

Now
I am stopping putting toppers on wet.  I am stopping giving NV medallions to Mooch.  I bought a bag of Katz N Flocken, which they used to eat and love (they also love Wysong Vitality, but this is chicken based, and almost everything they eat is chicken based, so I thought I would go with the Katz which is lamb based).  I continue to add pumpkin puree to their wet.

Breakfast : 1 heaping tbsp of Katz N Flocken + as much Evo wet as they wanted, which turned out to be about 2 tbsp for Chami, and 1 tbsp for Mooch.

Both wet and dry were leftover and they both went to nibble on it over the last two hours.  (The dry is now gone, and there is some wet still out, which I doubt they're going to eat.)


CONFIRMING "FACTS"
Wet is healthier than dry
Grain-free is healthier than grain


QUESTION

I plan to give grain dry (Katz) plus grain-free wet (Evo and Wellness) for 3 meals a day.  I will continue this until everyone is back on a good poop schedule.  I will continue to add pumpkin puree into the wet for a few more days.

I'm going to assume that it was the Evo grain-free that gave them constipation trouble.  They don't like the Orijen grain-free.  There are no other grain-free dry choices in Japan where I live.

After all the stuff that went on this last couple weeks, I'm about ready to just keep them on grain dry and grain-free wet, but then I'll always be coming across stuff that says it's best to get them off the dry.  And they're at such a young age I know if I'm going to do it, it's better/easier to do it now than later.  I'm still curious about home-cooking and also raw.



What would be a good game plan for us?

Should I just try again to lessen the grain dry and get them hungry enough to eat the grain-free wet that I'm not so sure they're thrilled about?  Will going only grain-free wet put me in the same constipation situation?  (Sounds like one of those School-House Rock songs LOL)

Should I try mixing the grain dry and Evo grain-free dry and slowly go grain-free again?

Do I introduce grain wet and try to find other wets that they might like better?


Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated!  And every thought and suggestion up to now has been fantastic, thank you!

Good morning, Catbird (well, from where I am    ),

The only grain-free wets that are available to me here in Japan that I know of are:

Innova Evo : original flavor only  (they generally like)
Wellness : Chicken, Turkey&Chicken, Chicken&Beef, Chicken&Herring (depends on the weather    )
Nature's Variety Instinct : All flavors (they pretty much hate, except the duck is so-so)


But I am thinking about trying to order from PetSage.  I've written to them for info on their international shipping, and they wrote back telling me they'd give me quotes for orders I might like to make.  So I think I'll make a few different sample orders and get a gist of what would be good to order.


Should I be only looking at the other grain-free wets?

Do you think I should look into one of the other kibble they offer that is low-carb or grain-free?

Should I be looking to try wets with grains?


I did find Pinnacle dry food here in Japan (this is one of the only dry that PetSage will be selling from July, so I assume it must be a good one...?  Though I haven't read much about it here or at PetFood), but the shape is totally different from that on the Pinnacle website which is odd (the Pinnacle website has a triangle shape, the Japan site has round a thin shape).

Hmm.  What to do what to do.


Maybe I should order some different grain-free wet from PetSage and see if that makes a difference.  I'll write a sample order to PetSage today and get a quote.   

Hi, Laurie,

May I ask some questions on your response so that I'm clear on what you wrote?


You mean I should try adding in Pinnacle to the dry we're using now (Katz N Flocken), and see how that goes....and if it doesn't go, to try the Wellness Core dry, is that right?


You mean until I find a grain-free dry that they enjoy?


You mean after I find a grain-free dry that sits well with them, I could try finding other grain-free wets that they might like better than the ones I'm currently feeding?



I just want to be clear for myself...I really appreciate it!  Thank you.

I hope it's all right to be putting updates here for anyone in the future who might be wanting to read this during their transition through he!! 

Last night I portioned out 2 days worth of breakfast/lunch/dinner dry tupperware so it would be easy for Mom to feed Yoyo and Lulu.  She called me after lunch today to tell me she's out of dry.      

Not only that, she has about 8 cans of cat food open in her fridge,         including cr@ppy fish ones she's bought at the convenience store.  "But that's what they want to eat."

God help me.  Hhhhhhh.

After washing Mom's Catit Water Fountain and changing and cleaning her litter box, Yoyo had very soft, stinky poop.   



Does anyone know of any transitioning blogs for me to read to keep encouraged?  It's nuts enough transitioning the cats, let alone transitioning my mom, and I could really use some positive light.



In the meantime, my Mooch and Chami are having their 1 tbsp of Katz N Flocken + ~1 oz Wellness wet grain-free (or Evo wet) with pumpkin, three times a day.  It hardly seems enough.  Mooch still somehow has a smaller appetite than usual, but at least he's not going to check on Cham's leftover dry like he used to.

And Cham is eating a heckofalot more wet now that she's got a grain dry that she likes, and is much more active and silly, which has been great.

I've written to PetSage to ask about shipping internationally and have yet to hear back from them.

At any rate, I will continue with this feeding plan for a while longer.  I've got a 3-day business trip coming up in the middle of June and I'm starting to feel anxious about how the feeding is going to go.


ETA : Oh yeah, the Pinnacle I found here in Japan is the old Pinnacle that has much more carbs than the current one.   



Edited again TA : I just got a response from PetSage - so quick! - They are going to do some calculations for me so I can get an idea of how much shipping will cost for various items.  Yay!

 August,  1 tbsp. of dry and 1 oz of canned 3 times daily hardly seems enough to keep two kitties nourished. They should each be eating at least 4 times this much. Have they always eaten such small amounts of food? I am not aware of any blogs that deal with transitioning cats but that is not to say that there might not be some out there. Some cats transition easily while others can take months or even longer. Cats normally do not welcome change. I think at the moment I would concentrate more on getting them to eat larger portions of food whether it be canned or dry. You might find some tips here. http://www.catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_

AlekO - I've just spent the last several hours reading many of your posts here and on Pet Foods.

I hear you on the beef.  The BSE scare was the line that crossed me over to becoming vegetarian.  

I've been intrigued by the freeze-dried but there is none available in Japan, so I've not yet tried it.

Thank you for your offer to hook me up to your HK online store.  I'll see what kind of prices PetSage comes up with for shipping and then I might be asking you.


Laurie - Thank you for the link to catinfo.  I must have read that site 100 times now LOL.  I'll certainly want to look at it again once I start up the transitioning again.

Since I was always reading that kittens should be free-fed, all 4 of these guys were free-fed dry until they were almost 11 months old.  That's around the time I came across catinfo and other links about feeding wet/raw/cooked (and not dry).  And so, taking the advice on transitioning from catinfo, I stopped free-feeding, and started with small meals, getting it down to now 3.

The amount that I give them at each meal is actually rarely all eaten.  This is something I've really worried about for two months - are they really eating enough?  The idea of letting them feel "hungry" to inspire eating more wet hasn't happened at all, and I'm constantly worrying if they are getting nourished.

But each meal when I put out 1 tbsp of dry and 1~2 oz of wet out, nobody finishes.  And nobody particularly begs for food, either.

When I took Mooch to the vet, when he was constipated for three days, I told her that I was worried he wasn't eating enough and she showed me that his tummy was full (as well as being constipated).

I've been trying to believe that their eating more wet food (grain-free) meant that they were eating more meat, and therefore just didn't need to be eating that much.

I've made myself crazy making feeding charts and re-re-rechecking online feeding calculators.  (By the way, the 4-some are a bit over 1 year old now.  And the vet told me Mooch is a tad overweight.)

I don't think they'll eat more than what I'm giving at their meals (as they're leaving some already).  Which would mean that I would need to give more meals....?  

Ohhh, I feel so  confused and....sad and angry that I didn't find info about feeding all wet when I was doing so much research when the kittens were first coming to my home last July -- I got so tangled up in doing research on recall items and kept reading how it's best to feed both wet and dry....urgh....

I feel lost.



Catbird - I was posting the above when you posted.  Thanks for the comparison.  Mooch is about the same weight as Isis, and he eats a little less than 1/4 cup of dry with grains and probably 2 oz of wet grain-free.  We live in a very small apartment and he's very mellow.  But it just hardly seems like enough food...and he hasn't pooped today...ay ay ay...

 I also wanted to mention that it is entirely possibly that they are not that fond of the food which could be contributing to their lack of appetite.

  I would use a wide glass bowl and put at least one cup of dry food in it. Or one bowl per kitty if that is what they are used to or maybe they might prefer seperate bowls. Also put out a couple of ounces of canned. IMO with the Wysong you are going backwards. It is loaded with wheat, rice, corn and oat groats. But that is just my personal opinion. I would try doing this with the Katz N Flocken for awhile before thinking about trying a new kibble.