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Author Topic: Salmonella in Pet Foods  (Read 6416 times)
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Rob
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« on: February 12, 2010, 05:35:02 PM »

The ingredients in the NV organic chicken are different than non-organic NV Chicken. Maybe that is what caused it with your babes.

When I switched to buffalo from rabbit for a meal with the NV my dogs got the runs for the day but they did not exhibit any other signs of illness - so I figured they handled the ingredients differently. They were fine after they ate their next meal - less buffalo and more rabbit.

There is a study posted here: http://doggybytes.ca/salmonella-story-series-dogs-contract-salmonellosis/2781/   from 1963 where they tried to make dogs sick on Salmonella contaminated food over 50 days and only when they were given Salmonella with an IV, did they get sick.

Dogs, and humans that have compromised systems could be more susceptible but remember - bacteria is everywhere! bathrooms - don't get me started on that one! LOL grocery store carts - where those kids sit in their diapers!.... door knobs, ..... I even ate at the buffet today and thought about all the people that picked up the spoons after not washing their hands after using the toilet, picking their nose, you get the idea! Its a SICK world out there! ROFL
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:38:47 AM by menusux » Logged

------- Rob
babysweet
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2010, 11:24:57 AM »

Quick notes - salmonella is unlikely to cause an issue in dogs.  In cats, however... well, different story entirely.

I was informed that the affected product was limited to the US and none was shipped to Canada.  Not trying to defend, and obviously NV needs to be examined, but for now Canadian consumers can breathe a bit easier.

Lastly, regarding the organic chicken by NV - I would be more likely to believe, as Rob mentioned, it is the ingredient changes.  You will note by comparing ingredient lists that the NV Organic Chicken Raw contains dairy products.  Not sure about anyone else, but with the exception of yogurt and small amounts of cheese, any other dairy products in any quantity cause issues with my guys digestion.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:46:47 AM by menusux » Logged
menusux
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2010, 11:37:39 AM »

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm200248.htm

Note that the notice sent to FDA by the company lists limited Canadian distribution:

"The affected product was distributed through retail stores and internet sales in the United States, and in limited distribution in Canada."
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:52:10 AM by menusux » Logged
PAWS4Life
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2010, 11:21:43 PM »

Seriously. Worried about salmonella. That would be the last bacteria I would be concerned about. Dogs and cats walk around outside in bacteria infested areas. Yes bacteria is everywhere. Then they groom themselves and lick their paws. I can't imagine how any of them stay healthy with all that bacteria they get into. Their digestive tracts are made for eating raw meat sometimes days old and full of worse things than salmonella. My other though is chicken and salmonella. I'm more surprised its not in every batch. How they kept it out for all these years is amazing. Salmonella and chicken go hand in hand. I would love to see someone go to the grocery store and finds a chicken with no salmonella. Good luck with that.

That being said anyone that feeds a raw diet knows that salmonella is not an issue. I myself commend NV for being quick to report and quick to keep everyone informed. They are without a doubt a caring company that does everything possible to keep all their foods safe. I feed the raw diet and will continue to feed it. I myself and not concerned. I know there are way worse bacteria out there that my dog walks around in every day. Which is why she never goes to a dog park. She gets enough exposure just being outside on a walk. If you feed them right, keep them healthy, don't over vaccinate and pump up the immune system then you are likely to not have problem with any bacteria.

My concern now is for all the animals that have been fed this food and happen to have a digestive problem it will immediately be blamed on the food and they will not get correctly diagnosed. Very few may have be food related but those that aren't will not get the vet care needed. Just blame the food and move on. Very sad.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:46:26 AM by menusux » Logged
Sandi K
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2010, 09:50:55 AM »

"Seriously. Worried about salmonella."
Well I guess that NV is worried about salmonella because they are the ones adopting the procedure of "test and hold" now, the same procedure that Stella & Chewy's has been doing for years because Im guessing they dont want to risk salmonella in their foods.  

"I myself commend NV for being quick to report and quick to keep everyone informed."   Lots of people here commend them too.  

"My concern now is for all the animals that have been fed this food and happen to have a digestive problem it will immediately be blamed on the food and they will not get correctly diagnosed."   Very few may have be food related but those that aren't will not get the vet care needed. Just blame the food and move on. Very sad."  

Last I read NV said they have had no reports of illness connected with this recall so who is blaming the food from this recalled lot?  Do you know of reports of illness connected to this specific recall that others dont? You're concerned that "very few may have been food related" but the food will be blamed.  So because some cases might get blamed on the food, you would have preferred NV not go public with the recall and risk those pets that were affected by the food?  Im guess Im confused. Seriously, I dont see anyone here saying dont feed raw. There are lots of raw feeders here too.   Why you assume pets wont get the care they need at the vet whether its food related or not, is also confusing to me.  

For me I think whats sad is someone thinking its OK for any product to have salmonella in it, if there are ways to reduce illness such as using the test and hold method. When did we as a society start accepting mediocracy. Why is it acceptable to some that a company dealing with a raw pet food product shouldnt need to test for salmonella in order to reduce risk to both pets and the humans handling the food?  Do you think testing prior to releasing a product is too much to ask for especially when that test, from what I have read, isnt very expensive in the course of things? Salmonella in pet food is not just a pet issue, its a human issue, who for many, can be very dangerous.  The recent outbreak in 44 states in 224 people from pepper coating on salami is just an example.  Food safety activists such as Bill Marler and Marion Nestle dont seem to agree with you that salmonella is OK and neither do the thousands of people who so desperately want the Food Safety bill to pass.  Also, I see this with other illnesses as well and other pet food contaminations, its always those that havent had a pet fall ill that say they dont worry about it.  Thats fine and I admire you for not worrying. But trivializing the concerns of those who do worry about it isnt fair.  I have a cat with immune system issues who I have fed the freeze dried medallions to in the past.  I would prefer to not have to worry that this pet food that I purchase, that is marketed as being safe and nutritious, wont harm her.  I dont think Im being unreasonable in my views.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:46:03 AM by menusux » Logged
Sandi K
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2010, 10:09:20 AM »

And I have to add, this to me, is not a  raw food or who feeds raw food issue and its not just about Natures Variety.  Its about an industry that sells pet food that has been having recalls or market withdrawals or food call-backs every two or three months.  Its about an industry that, to me, that has a problem in producing safe food and I personally, dont think its acceptable.      
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:45:36 AM by menusux » Logged
JustMe
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My RB Angels Elvis, 1991-2010, and Twit, 2001-2010


« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2010, 10:18:11 AM »

Apparently, there are a lot of people concerned about salmonella.  I use gloves when handling raw meat/poultry before cooking meals.  Even if it is true that it may not cause illness in a pet, there is still the danger of human family members coming in contact with salmonella and crosscontaminating their own food from animal feces or contact with raw meat.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:45:14 AM by menusux » Logged

Eventually they will understand,
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I just am....forever and ever and ever.
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menusux
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2010, 10:49:17 AM »

Seriously. Worried about salmonella. That would be the last bacteria I would be concerned about. Dogs and cats walk around outside in bacteria infested areas. Yes bacteria is everywhere. I myself and not concerned. I know there are way worse bacteria out there that my dog walks around in every day. If you feed them right, keep them healthy, don't over vaccinate and pump up the immune system then you are likely to not have problem with any bacteria.

My concern now is for all the animals that have been fed this food and happen to have a digestive problem it will immediately be blamed on the food and they will not get correctly diagnosed. Very few may have be food related but those that aren't will not get the vet care needed. Just blame the food and move on. Very sad.

It sure is, from the standpoint that unlike the Centers for Disease Control and even Mars, Inc., you have no concern for salmonella.


http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSCOL56867120080515

Reuters May 15, 2008

"Contaminated dry dog food was the source of an outbreak of Salmonella infections affecting people in 19 states, public health officials report in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, a publication of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"This investigation, the first one to identify dry dog food as the source of human Salmonella infections, demonstrates that dry pet food may be contaminated with Salmonella and be an under-recognized source of human infections, especially in young children, the investigators say.

"The first three cases of infection reported in Pennsylvania in May, 2006, involved identical strains of Salmonella. By October, 2007, a total of 70 laboratory-confirmed human cases of the outbreak strain had been reported to the CDC.


"According to Dr. A. Ferraro, at the Pennsylvania Department of Health, and colleagues, the largest numbers of reported cases were in Pennsylvania (29 cases), New York (9 cases), and Ohio (7 cases). Roughly 40 percent of infected individuals were infants.

"A multistate case-control study, as well as cultured specimens of dog stool and bags of dry dog food, implicated a manufacturing plant in Pennsylvania, which produces approximately 25 different brands of dry pet food.

"An inspection of the plant turned up one isolate of the outbreak strain on an environmental surface and two isolates in two brands of dry dog food. The manufacturer recalled these two brands, but only in the sized bags from which the bacteria were isolated, and suspended operations between July and November for cleaning and disinfection.

"The limited recall by the manufacturer means that contaminated dry pet food is almost certainly still present in many homes, the CDC notes.


"To prevent Salmonella infections, the CDC urges pet owners to wash their hands immediately after handling pet food. The agency also recommends that infants be kept away from pet feeding areas and that children younger than 5 not be allowed to touch or eat pet food, treats, or supplements."

SOURCE: Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, May 16, 2008.

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01689.html

Mars Petcare US, Inc. Recalls Dry Dog Food August 25, 2007

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is alerting consumers that Mars Petcare US, Inc. has recalled two dry dog food products because of the potential contamination with Salmonella Schwarzengrund.

"The Mars Petcare US, based in Franklin, Tenn. is voluntarily recalling five-pound bags of Krasdale Gravy dry dog food sold in Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania, and 50-pound bags of Red Flannel Large Breed Adult Formula dry food sold in Pennsylvania.


"The FDA conducted tests on 10 samples, representing seven product brands from the company. Each sample (same size and brand of product) consisted of 15 subsamples, for a total of 150 subsamples. Tests of the 150 subsamples revealed two positive samples; one from the Krasdale Gravy dry food and another from Red Flannel Large Breed Adult Formula dry food.


"Salmonella can potentially be transferred to people handling pet food, especially if they have not thoroughly washed their hands after having contact with the product or any surfaces exposed to the product. To date, there have been 64 cases of illness in humans related to Salmonella Schwarzengrund reported to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC); however, none of the reported cases have been directly linked to the recalled product that was tested. The FDA is working with local and state officials, and with officials at the CDC in the investigation.

Here is identification information on the recalled products:

Product: Krasdale Gravy dry dog food
Size: Five-pound bag

UPC Code: 7513062596
Best By Date: July 16, 2008 & July 17, 2008
Best By Date Location: Back of bag
Distribution: Stores in Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania

Product: Red Flannel Large Breed Adult Formula dry dog food
Size: 50-pound bag

UPC Code: 4286900062
Best By Date: July 12, 2008
Best By Date Location: Back of bag
Distribution: Stores in Reedsland and Richlandtown, Pa.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_524472.html

PittsburghLive.com August 28, 2007

Salmonella traced to Fayette dog food plant

"A salmonellosis outbreak that moved slowly through Pennsylvania and the country for 18 months only recently was connected to a Fayette County dog food plant, public health officials said Monday.


"The Mars Petcare U.S. manufacturing plant in Everson that made the two suspected dog foods linked to the outbreak is closed for inspection and cleaning, the Nashville-based company said in a news release yesterday.

"People in 18 states, including Ohio and New York, have been infected, said CDC spokeswoman Lola Russell. However, the Krasdale dog food was sold only in Pennsylvania and four other states, and the Red Flannel was sold only in Pennsylvania, according to the company.

"In June, potential salmonella contamination caused Mars Petcare to recall 55-pound bonus bags of Ol'Roy Complete Nutrition Dry Dog Food, which is sold by Wal-Mart. That food was made by Doane Pet Care Co. in Manassas, Va., according to the FDA."


http://www.marspetcare.com/Melodye/GPR/Mars%20Release%20with%20Comma061306.pdf

June 13, 2006

Mars Announces Completion of Acquisition of US Operations of Doane Pet Care Company

http://www.nutroproducts.com/press5-1-07mars.shtml

May 1, 2007

Mars, Incorporated to Acquire Nutro Products, Inc.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=aEIOAzftWiVw&refer=home

Bloomberg.com November 6, 2008

Mars Petcare US Chow Toll of Human Salmonella Hits 79

A Mars Petcare US Inc. factory churned out bacteria-contaminated dog and cat chow for three years, spreading salmonella that sickened at least 79 people in the first human outbreak traced to dry pet food, a report said.

The last reported illness was Oct. 18, after Mars said it would permanently close the Everson, Pennsylvania, factory. That suggests people are still feeding pets tainted dry food that the company voluntarily recalled Sept. 12, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report published today.

The report is the first to conclusively link the Mars Petcare plant to a rare form of salmonella that sickened people, mostly children, in 21 states since 2006
. Salmonella is a type of food poisoning that can kill, though the CDC said it knows of no fatalities associated with the Mars Petcare chow. The disease likely was spread by handling the kibbble, lax cleaning of pet food bowls or touching animal droppings, said the CDC, based in Atlanta.

``Dry pet food has a one-year shelf life, and contaminated product might still be in the homes of purchasers and could produce illness,'' said the CDC, which recommends people throw out food from the factory.

More at link.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE4A57JK20081106

Reuters November 6, 2008

Pet food sickened at least 79 people, CDC says

Salmonella-contaminated dry pet food sickened at least 79 people, including many young children, and could still be dangerous, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported on Thursday.

Even though the affected brands have been recalled and the factory in Pennsylvania closed, pet owners could still have the cat and dog kibble in their homes, the CDC said.


"Dry pet food has a 1-year shelf life. Contaminated products identified in recalls might still be in the homes of purchasers and could cause illness. Persons who have these products should not use them to feed their pets but should discard them or return them to the store," the CDC said in its weekly report on death and disease.

The brands, made by Mars Petcare U.S., include Special Kitty, Pedigree and Member's Mark, among others. The full list of brands affected was available on www.petcare.mars.com

"Mars Petcare U.S. has taken steps to ensure that recalled products are no longer on store shelves. On October 1, the company announced that the Everson (Pennsylvania) plant would be closed permanently," the CDC team wrote.

"Consumers and health departments should be aware that all dry pet food, pet treats, and pet supplements might be contaminated with pathogens such as Salmonella, and consumers should use precautions with all brands of dry pet food, treats, and supplements," the CDC report reads.


"In contrast, canned pet food is unlikely to be contaminated with such pathogens because the manufacturing process should eliminate bacterial contamination."

The CDC recommends that anyone handling dry pet food wash the hands and keep infants away from it.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08275/916344-28.stm

Pittsburgh Post Gazette October 1, 2008

Pet food plant in Everson closing

"A Fayette County pet food plant involved in two salmonella scares will be permanently closed, according to a notice sent to state officials.

"Representatives for Mars Petcare U.S. Inc. notified the state Department of Labor and Industry in a Sept. 18 letter that 53 associates would be unemployed by year-end because of the decision to close the plant in Everson.

"The notice came days after Mars announced a voluntary recall of cat and dog food made at the plant because of potential contamination with a strain of salmonella. Officials said they had stopped production in July and would not resume manufacturing until the source of the salmonella had been determined.

"The same plant had been closed for a cleaning in 2007 after salmonella had been found in bags of dog food produced there.
Salmonella can cause diarrhea, fever and vomiting in pets. People handling contaminated pet foods can potentially be infected, too.

"In materials announcing the most recent recall, the company said no direct link between product made this year at the Everson plant and human or pet illness had been seen.

"Pet food brands affected included Ol' Roy, Pedigree, Retriever, Wegman's and Red Flannel, according to a Mars news release. Officials said many of those are national brands produced at multiple facilities. For example, just 2.7 percent of the company's Pedigree products came out of Everson.


"The closure notice sent to state officials, as part of Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification requirements, said workers were told about the closure on Sept. 12. Layoffs could start in mid-November and continue into December."
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:44:53 AM by menusux » Logged
PAWS4Life
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2010, 11:11:15 PM »

Quote
Well I guess that NV is worried about salmonella because they are the ones adopting the procedure of "test and hold" now,

Of course they are worried about it and should be. They are a Pet food company. That is not what I was talking about. I was talking about myself.

Quote
Last I read NV said they have had no reports of illness connected with this recall so who is blaming the food from this recalled lot?  Do you know of reports of illness connected to this specific recall that others dont?

Nope have not heard of any. Would be extremely surprised to hear of any but I'm sure they will. Like I said every digestive illness will be blamed on the food instead finding the real problem. That was my only point. Nothing hidden. Just making a concerned point.

Quote
For me I think whats sad is someone thinking its OK for any product to have salmonella in it,

Please don't say I said something I didn't. I never said it was ok for food to have salmonella. I simply said I'm not concerned and would be more concerned about other types of bacteria.

Quote
its always those that havent had a pet fall ill that say they dont worry about it.  Thats fine and I admire you for not worrying. But trivializing the concerns of those who do worry about it isnt fair.

I also never said not to worry. I just said I'm not worried and most needn't be. As for illness in pets been there done that so I'm not in the group you put me in. The reason I am not worried is that I try like many here to keep my pets healthy any way possible. If you have a healthy pet then salmonella is not a worry.

I also "never" trivialized any concerns. Just expressed an opinion. A few years ago before I did the research on pet food and raw diets I would have freaked over salmonella.  So no I don't trivialize any concerns.
Quote
Apparently, there are a lot of people concerned about salmonella.  I use gloves when handling raw meat/poultry before cooking meals.

Alot of people do this. It is a different concern for humans. We aren't meant to eat raw meat last I knew but I do know there is a new trend where people have adopted this raw diet and have been ok. I myself just wash my hands and disinfect my area. I don't feel the need to wear gloves but there are many that do.





« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:44:28 AM by menusux » Logged
The Cats Mother
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2010, 06:59:40 AM »

Quote
Well I guess that NV is worried about salmonella because they are the ones adopting the procedure of "test and hold" now,

Of course they are worried about it and should be. They are a Pet food company. That is not what I was talking about. I was talking about myself.

Quote
Last I read NV said they have had no reports of illness connected with this recall so who is blaming the food from this recalled lot?  Do you know of reports of illness connected to this specific recall that others dont?

Nope have not heard of any. Would be extremely surprised to hear of any but I'm sure they will. Like I said every digestive illness will be blamed on the food instead finding the real problem. That was my only point. Nothing hidden. Just making a concerned point.

Quote
For me I think whats sad is someone thinking its OK for any product to have salmonella in it,

Please don't say I said something I didn't. I never said it was ok for food to have salmonella. I simply said I'm not concerned and would be more concerned about other types of bacteria.

Quote
its always those that havent had a pet fall ill that say they dont worry about it.  Thats fine and I admire you for not worrying. But trivializing the concerns of those who do worry about it isnt fair.

I also never said not to worry. I just said I'm not worried and most needn't be. As for illness in pets been there done that so I'm not in the group you put me in. The reason I am not worried is that I try like many here to keep my pets healthy any way possible. If you have a healthy pet then salmonella is not a worry.

I also "never" trivialized any concerns. Just expressed an opinion. A few years ago before I did the research on pet food and raw diets I would have freaked over salmonella.  So no I don't trivialize any concerns.
Quote
Apparently, there are a lot of people concerned about salmonella.  I use gloves when handling raw meat/poultry before cooking meals.

Alot of people do this. It is a different concern for humans. We aren't meant to eat raw meat last I knew but I do know there is a new trend where people have adopted this raw diet and have been ok. I myself just wash my hands and disinfect my area. I don't feel the need to wear gloves but there are many that do.








I think it was the tone of your first post (reply #32) that led to some other posters getting the impression that thre was some disparagement going on, whether it was meant to come across that way or not it was certainly challenging reading.

I don't wear gloves either though I think we have somewhat cleaner facilities here just because of the smaller scale we work on being such a smaller population base, I don't think this is such an issue. I've never been overly concerned about Salmonella in chicken historically (when I used to eat it, now vegetarian) as long as it was cooked thoroughly and cooled and refreigerated . Undercooked chicken is the biggest danger. I cook my cats' chicken, except for the necks which I bring home and freeze immediately. then thaw as needed. They don't sit around long enough to grow anything lol, chomp chomp chomp and they're gone. Tongue

« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:44:07 AM by menusux » Logged
Sandi K
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2010, 07:20:02 AM »

Paws4life, its great you arent worried about salmonella in pet food.  

I think your statement implying every digestive problem will get blamed on the food is really unfair to pet owners. And would there really be that many feeding NV where their pets are having digestive upset?  Im sorry you feel NV will be unfairly blamed, but if someone is feeding one of the recalled lots and their pet gets sick at the same time, I think most people would worry the food led to the illness, wouldnt you? I can bet if someone was feeding the lot that got recalled and their dog got sick at the same time with related symptoms, most good vets would want to rule it out as a precaution and it can be pretty easily determine in testing of both the animal and the food altho testing of the recalled lot shouldnt be necessary as its already been found there.  

Anyhow, moving on. Someone had brought up that there are many different strains of salmonella, it would be nice to know what strain it was they found in the NV.  
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:43:42 AM by menusux » Logged
menusux
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2010, 07:27:52 AM »


Quote
Last I read NV said they have had no reports of illness connected with this recall so who is blaming the food from this recalled lot?  Do you know of reports of illness connected to this specific recall that others dont?

Quote
Nope have not heard of any. Would be extremely surprised to hear of any but I'm sure they will. Like I said every digestive illness will be blamed on the food instead finding the real problem. That was my only point. Nothing hidden. Just making a concerned point.

Why not elaborate on what you believe is the "real problem", if not the salmonella?

Quote
its always those that havent had a pet fall ill that say they dont worry about it.  Thats fine and I admire you for not worrying. But trivializing the concerns of those who do worry about it isnt fair.

Quote
I also never said not to worry. I just said I'm not worried and most needn't be. As for illness in pets been there done that so I'm not in the group you put me in. The reason I am not worried is that I try like many here to keep my pets healthy any way possible. If you have a healthy pet then salmonella is not a worry.

What's your opinion on this?

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm200248.htm

"Healthy people infected with Salmonella may experience some or all of the following symptoms: nausea, vomiting, diarrhea or bloody diarrhea, abdominal cramping, or fever. Although rare, Salmonella can result in more serious ailments including arterial infections, endocarditis (inflammation of the lining of the heart), arthritis, muscle pain, eye irritation, or urinary tract symptoms. Consumers exhibiting these signs after having contact with the affected product should contact their health care provider.

"Pets with Salmonella infections may become lethargic and have diarrhea or bloody diarrhea, fever, or vomiting. Some pets may experience only a decreased appetite, fever, or abdominal pain. Infected, but otherwise healthy pets can be carriers and infect other animals or humans. If your pet has consumed any of the affected products and is experiencing any of these symptoms, please contact your veterinarian."

Quote
A few years ago before I did the research on pet food and raw diets I would have freaked over salmonella.

Why not share some links with the rest of the members?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 07:43:20 AM by menusux » Logged
PAWS4Life
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2010, 09:06:31 AM »

Quote
Why not elaborate on what you believe is the "real problem", if not the salmonella?

I will give one example. A friend of mine that feeds NV raw diet has a dog that has digestive issues. Vomits every morning, some loose stools, and generally not feeling good. She feeds the chicken raw. When this came out her vet immediately assumed it was the raw chicken. Had she not known that it wasn't and had she listened to vet her dog would have continued to suffer for a few more weeks until the vet realized that its gone on too long for it to be the raw diet. My friend knowing it wasn't the salmonella and must be something else pressed and found out her dog came up with IBS and H-Pylori. That was the only point I was trying to make. There are way more consumers out there that are not like us and research and ask questions. And when their vets automatically assume it has to be the food the animal could suffer needlessly. And lets face it not too many vets approve of a raw food diet so they will be quick to blame and not explore other options.

Quote
Why not share some links with the rest of the members?

I can imagine most members here have read the same links I have. If I had them all still bookmarked I would share them.

Did you know that most vets freak out over high protein yet there is nothing in any Veterinary medical book that would support or say that high protein is bad. Veterinarians do not get much training in nutrition. maybe a few weeks worth so that is where the main problem is. They believe what the mass production companies (Purina and such)  tell them. Which also bring to mind that Purina has an awesome nutrition class and studies it extensively yet does not use the info to make a good food. Any guess on why that is.
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menusux
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2010, 10:24:06 AM »

Have heard this argument before about vets supposedly not getting enough/any training in-"fill in the blank". Those bringing it up previously have internet "miracle cure-alls" they want you to buy.

It depends on the med school the vet in question is a grad of as some schools have more nutrition classes than others and also on how he/she spends the Continuing Education time, which is part of continuing to practice.

Medicine is like life-you get out of it what you put into it and a good doctor never stops learning, whether the "lessons" are for CE or not.  None of those I know well have issues with high protein unless there are medical conditions such as renal problems which would mean restriction of protein. 

Raw feeding was recommended to me by my vet; we had no issues with it at all.  He even recommended the brand; since I am not in the business of recommending nor selling pet food, I'll just say it was not the brand you mention.
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Sandi K
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2010, 11:10:29 AM »

I guess the way I see it, if a pet who has been doing well all of a sudden gets ill and the people know they were feeding a recalled lot of food, then not looking at the pet food would be irresponsible.  In the case you cite, your friends dog had been ill for some time, assumably long before this recall came out.  Thats not to say I wouldnt look at the food even in that case as there are many cases of food intolerance.  I would be wondering if the H Pylori by itself was causing the symptoms of IBD but in alot of cases the food itself is the cause, just certain ingredients alone can cause IBD/IBS in pets.  At the same time, alot of vets wont look at food as the cause of IBD and in my experience that would be one of the many places I look.  Also, I think in the past and in many cases now, vets wont even look at food as the source of any illness.  With all the recalls I am seeing, Im hoping that will change and it will be in their list of things to look at more closely.  There are no statistics out there showing how many pets have been made ill from food contaminations and in my opinion, it needs to be looked at closer.  

That said, regardless of whether its raw or not, I still expect companies to take responsibility for producing a safe product.  Saying every case of digestive upset will be blamed on the food is the type of speak I have seen from places like the Pet Food Institute even recently in the docket pertaining to the new proposed adverse event reporting system attempting to be established for consumers.  Its a way of trying to avoid responsibility for their product and it implies that petowners in general are either dishonest or unintelligent.   People that purchase products have a right to expect it wont hurt their pet and they are entitled to recourse if it does.  I dont know what the alternative is supposed to be, not announcing a recall?  
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 11:47:36 AM by Sandi K » Logged
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