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Author Topic: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine  (Read 7377 times)
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lesliek
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« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2008, 09:38:44 AM »

Has anyone spoken to someone at MI yet ? Now I am getting voicemail for everyone there including the operator.
 It does sound like it might be too much fat or meat ,but I still want to know for sure.
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Carol
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« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2008, 09:40:54 AM »

I'm still waiting for Jessica to call me back from customer service and a response to my email sent last night.   Angry
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lesliek
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« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2008, 09:48:11 AM »

Maybe they are in a meeting about it due to high # of calls & emails ?Hopefully that means we will get an answer no matter who we speak to.
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trucorgi
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« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2008, 10:03:43 AM »

Mr. Chris Young
Nature’s Variety Pet Food

Dear Mr. Young,

Back in November I had a problem with your food. I had been feeding Instinct for a long time prior to this and I trusted that Nature’s Variety had their customer's best interest at heart. It was called Raw Instinct when I started buying it. I highly recommended to others that they switch to your food, especially during the recalls, and many of them did. In Late 2007 I noticed that the product had changed. I e-mailed and you called me shortly thereafter. We spoke at length. I told you of my concerns. I explained that I had fed it to my young puppies and they, all (9), got diarrhea. You said it is AAFCO all stages and there should be no problem feeding it to weaning puppies. My adults all had bad gas. Not just one dog, but all 4 of them. You told me you had no idea why I was having a problem and that there had been no changes at all in the food, ingredients or the production. I explained how the food was a different color and it was crumbled. I told you I was not imagining this. It looked and fed different. I knew it was not the same food. You advised switching to another variety of your food and I explained that since I have an IBD dog with a rice allergy I am very limited in my choices. I returned the unopened bag for a full refund and threw the opened food away. I switched all my dogs to Orijen. Everyone has done very well on the new food, both puppy and adult varieties. Since then you have discovered there really was a problem with your food and have recalled it. You stop short of actually calling it a recall, but that is what it is. You had my phone number and my e-mail. It would have been nice for you to follow up and make me aware of this new recall information. You could have even thanked me for bringing this problem to your attention and tried to gain my trust back, but you did not. I'm sure I wasn't the only one with a problem. You should have followed up with everyone that complained. Since I don’t feed your food anymore, I don't frequent your website. I learned of the recall not from you, but from a blog. It seems to me now that when we spoke back in 2007 you knew, or should have known, of the production changes at your company and the "density" issue, yet you denied this. Why? You then posted a very vague notice on your website in late February. Are you willing to be more specific as to the changes that caused my dogs GI upset now? And specifically, who did you outsource this production to and where was the food actually made, ingredients sourced? Off shore perhaps? What exactly does "nutrient-dense" mean? This tells me nothing. Specifically, which nutrients were too dense? I would like to know what my dogs were reacting to. I feel I have every right to know this information and you are withholding it from me. Your website notice gives no specific information. I asked for it than and I am asking again. Since you say "We followed with testing and verified that the cause of the digestive upset was density-related" you do know the test results and have chosen to post a carefully worded CYA statement. I would also like to know the cause of the digestive upset. You have not disclosed this information. What kinds of tests were run? Were they independent or in house? When were they done? Not coming clean with these results leaves me to assume the worst and question your integrity. For these reasons I will never switch back to your food. It is high time you dog food companies stop keeping secrets and cutting corners that make our animals sick or dead. And contrary to what you say on the website, this food was made prior to Early January because I bought it in October/November and spoke with you about the problems I was having with it in early December. Also, I noticed the language you chose of calling your customers “pet parents” instead of owners in the Q & A posted on your website. Are you aware that this gives the appearance that you support and identify with an animal rights “guardianship” agenda? Is this your intention or just ignorance? Savvy pet owners and reputable breeders are becoming wise to the damage control techniques, use of language and overall integrity of pet food companies. When all else failed, honesty and full disclosure should have been your policy. Unfortunately, it was not; putting you in the same category with those who have had much larger and damaging recalls in 2007. If this doesn’t disappoint you, it should.
I look forward to your response. 
  XXXXX
cc: To everyone I know.
---------------------------------------
Thank you!

Please add cservice@naturesvariety.com to your email safe list. We try to reply to
every email within 2 business days. If you do not hear from us within this timeframe,
call us toll-free at 1.888.519.7387. We appreciate your communication with us!
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alek0
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« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2008, 10:05:08 AM »

Well, I change brands, I feed 5 brands (multiple flavours each) for wet and three for dry. Plus occasionally they get some raw and freeze dried. My cats don't have GI upsets because of it.

Since I keep a record which foods I feed when, I can pinpoint likely culprits if there is a problem. I don't find this explanation very logical, because even if you feed different flavors of the same brand, how do you know which one caused a problem? Unless you keep a record what you feed, and then it makes no difference whether it is one brand or not.

I do not find arguments against feeding variety (including multiple brands and kinds of food) very convincing. I know that there are cats and dogs which experience problems when switching. My older two did for a while quite some time ago when I was doing what vet recommended against my better judgement. The fact that they never had same problem again after I slowly transitioned them back to eating variety of foods indicates that there is a possibility that those GI upset problems with switching foods are caused by the lack of variety in pets diets. A pet which is otherwise healthy and has no food sensitivities should be able to eat a varied diet without problems. Problems occur mainly when they are not used to eating a varied diet.

Another question - if there is indeed such a wide margin of nutrient profiles, if you do not rotate foods how do you ensure that your pet is indeed recieving complete and balanced nutrition?
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« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2008, 10:09:25 AM »

trucorgi,

BRAVO  Great letter
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lesliek
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« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2008, 10:21:56 AM »

Well I just got a phone call from Mark at MI.They are not positive but think it may have been steam in the extruder that caused the problem.So basically what they are saying is that each piece of kibble is actually heavier than normal,which means if you normally feed 1 cup; 1 cup of this batch equals more in all nutrients & calories.The reason they are saying don't continue to use it is it could adversely affect dogs who have other health issues.Such as Harry.Or dogs with pancreatitis.That part of the call went well,then it went downhill. I asked about the new facility & he said they don't have enough staff there to answer calls about the food & so it is proprietary.They make the raw medallions & freeze dried there,but the kibble & cans are all outsourced.I explained that because of problems I've had with other foods,& cross contamination recalls,I would not buy food unless I know where it is made & by who. I offered to sign a confidentiality form,& he said he would pass that along.We left it as I will no longer use their food until they can be more open.Hopefully 1 of you will get more info,but I doubt it.Mine had been having the runs,however I did not start a new bag & mine is Nov 23'08. I think it is because I forgot to add the pumpkin to the last batch of food.When I started adding it they were fine.
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lesliek
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« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2008, 10:29:48 AM »

As soon as I posted the previous,Chris Young called me from NV. He said that the whole dog journal had already listed them,& because of the problem with these 2 batches they are going to give this info out. The 2 facilities are Pied Piper in Texas & Chenango Valley in NY.I did ask if I could post this & he said yes.He said that some customers are still using it & feeding a little less with no problems,but they would not recommend that. They prefer that you get a replacement bag from a normal batch.Thank God ! Really don't want to cross another good food off the list.They do not have any in house testing except for basics,& use Midwest labs to routinely screen batches.Everything tested within the parameters,just at the very high normal end.So I think he answered all my questions,if any of you can think of anything else,he said please feel free to call & ask. However they are getting a lot of calls & emails,so there might be a delay responding.[edited to fix typo in name]
« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 10:32:39 AM by lesliek » Logged

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Carol
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« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2008, 10:41:40 AM »

Chris Young just called me too---he told me my two bags were even made at a different plant--mine 2 were- RM1 Dec 27 '08--he is not aware of any trouble with this food---he does want me to give him feedback --I want to call my vet as Lucy had that bloody gastritis last year after a surgery---but her poops are not red "raspberry jam" like then--just brown and loose--it's even on her feathers on her legs and her farts smell different!. I guess it's possible she has gotten into Harry's food---we are giving him kibble plus "Kaffe meatloaf" plus Mighty dog plus anything else good so he'll still want to eat----

I am going to make sure Lucy has no access to Harry's and feed her less---even though this food is not part of the "too rich" batches.   Huh  I hate to change brands as this was so good for her --think I'm gonna lose my mind... Undecided
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trucorgi
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« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2008, 11:21:41 AM »

As soon as I posted the previous,Chris Young called me from NV. The 2 facilities are Pied Piper in Texas & Chenango Valley in NY.

Pied Piper has a website: http://piedpiperpetfood.net/Customer_Service.html
ATTENTION: Pied Piper Pet Foods is not involved
in any recall of our dry pet foods or treats.
Pied Piper Pet Foods only uses grains and protein supplements sourced from the USA.
WHEAT GLUTEN AND RICE PROTEIN CONCENTRATE                     
ARE NOT USED IN ANY OF OUR PRODUCTS.

Chenango Valley has a history of recalls and cross contamination http://www.fda.gov/oc/po/firmrecalls/chenango05_07.html

Why on earth would NV start outsourcing a grain free food to them? They had to know of the April/May 2007 recalls.
 
Thanks for the info lesliek. If Mr.Young calls me I will bring this to his attention.

Quote
Well I just got a phone call from Mark at MI.They are not positive but think it may have been steam in the extruder that caused the problem.
What is an extruder? Steam is hot water. Harmless unless it's contaminated.

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Robert
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« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2008, 11:26:48 AM »

Isn't Pied Piper the company Canidae used or uses? And even if they source from US on the protein supplements - where are the vitamins or pre-mixes coming from? I've heard that most companies pre-mixes come from China even if "sourced" from a distributor here in the US.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 04:39:21 PM by rjvamp » Logged

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kittylyda
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« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2008, 04:37:01 PM »

Almost all the major pet food manufactures were involved in the recall one way or another.  It's really hard to avoid those places unless a company is prepared to make and can all the food in their own facility.
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Robert
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« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2008, 04:38:53 PM »

i agree almost all were - but thankfully not Kumpi :-)
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« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2008, 05:09:35 PM »

Nutrient Dense is great! But I'm a bit confused as to the explanation...

I have a question - would the steam issue that NV has said could be the culprit - wouldn’t the kibble appear differently if there was more nutrients in the food? Would more nutrient dense food mean the food should weigh more and thus if packaged by weight wouldn’t the package have less food in it? Just wondering.

But dogs getting sick because of this I wouldn't call being blown out of proportion for no reason - plus this information is posted on NV's website - so it must be a problem.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 05:11:32 PM by rjvamp » Logged

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Carol
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« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2008, 05:28:38 PM »

Wow "nutrient dense"  I would have never thought of that...........Isn't that exactly what the website said? Isn't that what I've been saying all along. So all the scolding was for nothing being as they told it like it is. No conspiracy ? Now, whatever will there be to talk about.

I can't help but be alittle sarcastic since again something was blown completely out of proportion for no reason.


I'm sorry but I have to speak up---do you work for NV? 

I do not like controversary but you must understand what ALOT of us have from one year ago---being told there was nothing wrong---I had both of my cats affected with MARF and have had this past year one big nightmare because of simply feeding them..   I do not think there is any great conspiracy but I do think we pet parents are not told the whole truth all of the time---it seems we are told only what they want us to know---I have decided to do my own test and have stopped feeding NV to Harry and Lucy and time will tell I guess.  I'm sorry but I do not appreciate the sarcasm.  We are here to support one another not ridicule.
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“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” — Margaret Mead

United we stand     Divided we fall....
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