Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine page 17

lesliek

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Posts: 2715

Trooper,Remy & Fragile

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #240 on: March 14, 2008, 07:19:54 AM »

I will be away from the computer all afternoon & evening. Could someone ask again about the vitamins for me ?Thanks in advance.


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"the world's most inept extortionist"

5CatMom

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Posts: 1310

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #241 on: March 14, 2008, 07:44:42 AM »

Here's Lesliek's question about vitamins:

Quote from: lesliek on March 13, 2008, 06:52:44 PM

Sorry to come in to this so late. I wanted to thank Sandy for coming on & being so open. This restores a lot of my confidence in the company. I won't deal with any company which will not answer my questions.
I do have concerns about the use of Midwest.I would also like to know whether or not you are testing vitamin and mineral content ? I have had 2 different foods with a large excess of Vitamin E and copper.
Again I appreciate your candor and if our suggestions or input can help you remain customer friendly,please feel free to ask for opinions.

5CatMom


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Sandi K

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Posts: 1957

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #242 on: March 14, 2008, 07:56:39 AM »

I do have another question also if Sandy would be willing to answer it. Once again I appreciate the opportunity. In the post above, there was this Q&A:

5.) How many complaints did you have? I know of several people that just switched food without contacting NV when they were having issues.
I do not have an exact number of complaints.

My question is if you dont have the exact number of complaints, is this because the complaints werent documented or kept track of or is this information that you cannot share for various reasons? If complaints werent kept track of, I would like to ask why, considering the 2007 pet food recalls showed that documenting, tracking, and investigating those complaints could have lessened the impact to a large degree.


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Carol

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Posts: 1999

Harry with the "Golden Bone" 6/29/05--4/24/08

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #243 on: March 14, 2008, 08:12:48 AM »

Sandy,

I hope that you have and do take the time and read the abstracts that Offy previously provided --

http://jvdi.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/5/525
http://jvdi.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/6/616

the full article on the Link Made 2004/2007, which many of us have purchased (and I do think the entire article is what you should read) -and shared with our vets-- is very informative and I believe is one you and all CEO's of pet food manufacturing should read-This link was forwarded to Debbie Phillips-Donaldson so I hope it is discussed further with the PFI.

as well as this news link --from the USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-10-petfood_N.htm

Thank you.


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“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” — Margaret Mead

United we stand Divided we fall....

trucorgi

Full Member

Posts: 120

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #244 on: March 14, 2008, 08:27:30 AM »

Quote from: SMGMI on March 14, 2008, 06:52:48 AM

The new facility only made Instinct Chicken Meal formula for dogs on January 3 and 10 of 2008. I cannot account for the symptoms you reported in November.

I bought the last bag of food around Thanksgiving. If you ever figure it out could you have someone at NV let me know for my own peace of mind?

I am currently feeding our dogs a combination of Nature's Variety Raw Frozen Diet and Instinct Duck Meal and Turkey Meal that is made at CV. I rotate among our products upon completion of a bag.

It is reassuring that you are feeding your own dogs kibble made at the CV facility.

There had not been a change in manufacturing facilities for Instinct Chicken Meal formula for dogs in early December. I am sorry that we could not retain your trust. We are committed to re-establishing our record of quality and consistency and hope that you will one day consider our brand again.

I hope so too. I appreciate you coming here and answering my tough questions publicly and respectfully.
I am glad you recognize that with every question asked and answered here, the thing that we really want to know is weather or not we can trust you and the NV brand going forward.


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Offy

Guest

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #245 on: March 14, 2008, 09:18:51 AM »

Quote from: Carol on March 14, 2008, 08:12:48 AM

As far as the detection limits at Midwest Labs, I think the link to the 2nd article is critical to review for lowering the test MDLs.

We have seen one particular pet food company use Midwest test results to counter a customers test results because they could say "not found" when the amount in the other test was below 10ppm. That shell game can be fatal to our cats and small dogs. And, we have another that used the "non-detected" Midwest lab reports on their website to calm fears. Non detected? Not detected is the response you need to see. "Non-detected" from some chemists I spoke with can indicate that there were spikes below the method detection limit - the company test method cannot "verify" amounts below their MDL - they cannot on that same hand say it does NOT exit below that MDL. There's a word game in that and consumers need to be aware of it. Some state laws are very specific and when there is a "spike" the lab report MUST say <10ppm - less than 10ppm - it cannot say non detected or not detected at 10ppm.

We simply cannot tolerate that kind of testing level spin games being done to the detriment of our companion animal health.

Midwest IMO has a loyalty to the pet food industry not to the science of, and the reason for the tests in the first place. That makes me leary of quality fading testing too.


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5CatMom

Hero Member

Posts: 1310

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #246 on: March 14, 2008, 09:27:31 AM »

Sandy,

The bottom line wrt testing is that we have more confidence in Expertox.

Any chance you could use Expertox to perform NV's testing?

5CatMom


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Offy

Guest

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #247 on: March 14, 2008, 09:58:06 AM »

Quote from: 5CatMom on March 14, 2008, 09:27:31 AM

Sandy,

The bottom line wrt testing is that we have more confidence in Expertox.

Any chance you could use Expertox to perform NV's testing?

5CatMom

If NV used Expertox for testing, I absolutely would use their canned foods and grain free kibbles as treats & eliminate the others I'm using. It'd have to be a transition, but I'd do it.
Right now, the future for me is the organic ground turkey & chicken as protein for homecooking that's coming up in 2 weeks....


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trucorgi

Full Member

Posts: 120

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #248 on: March 14, 2008, 03:29:36 PM »

RECENT NEWS
03-14-2008
Update on Instinct™ Chicken Meal Formula Production

http://naturesvariety.com/news.lasso


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5CatMom

Hero Member

Posts: 1310

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #249 on: March 15, 2008, 05:50:52 AM »

Sandy,

You are obviously concerned about the quality of your food. Why risk your company's reputation by dealing with a manufacturer that has had problems in the past?

Especially since the company has an average failure rate of 100% on your food. That just seems like an accident waiting to happen.

As an alternative, could you work with your Texas manufacturing facility to increase their manufacturing capacity?

5CatMom


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5CatMom

Hero Member

Posts: 1310

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #250 on: March 15, 2008, 05:57:37 AM »

IMHO, the company has a bad history.

"Chenango Valley Pet Foods Expands Voluntary Nationwide Recall of Certain Pet Foods
Contact:
Dennis J. Bobita
(610) 821-0608

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -- May 17, 2007 -- Chenango Valley Pet Foods previously recalled dry pet foods manufactured with a shipment of rice protein concentrate supplied by Wilbur-Ellis that possibly contained melamine contamination. Chenango Valley Pet Foods is now expanding the recall action to include those pet foods that do not contain rice protein concentrate but were manufactured during periods when rice protein concentrate formulas were processed. The recall of these products is precautionary due to the possibility of cross-contamination.

The following dry pet foods are involved in this recall action:

DOCTORS FOSTER & SMITH LAMB & BROWN RICE FORMULA ADULT DOG FOOD, NET WT. 6 LBS. (UPC 25141 28244), 15 LBS. (25141 30074), and 30 LBS. (UPC 25141 06043); Date Codes: Best By Feb 09 09 and Best By Feb 26 09;
SHOP RITE REDI-MIXT DOG FOOD FOR DOGS, NET WT. 25 LB. (UPC 41190 00555), Date Code: Code C7107;
LICK YOUR CHOPS KITTEN & CAT FOOD, NET WEIGHT 4 LBS. (UPC 32976 25915), and 18 LBS. (UPC 32976 25925); Date Code: Best Used By April 29 08;
SHEP chunk style dog food, NET WT. 20 LBS. (UPC 41498 14142); Date Code: Best By March 14 08;
8 in 1 Ferret ULTRA-BLEND ADVANCED NUTRITION DIET, NET WT. 20 LBS, UPC 26851 00413, Code: C7072;
Bulk Lamb & Brown Rice Formula Dog Food, Date Code: Feb 09, 08, sold to one consignee SmartPak.
Health Diet Cat Food Chicken & Rice Dinner NET WT. 1.81 kg/4 LB (UPC 78198 01594), 4 kg/8.8 LB (UPC 78198 01599), and 8 kg/17.6 LB (UPC 78198 01585); Code C7072;
EVOLVE KITTEN FORMULA, NET WT. 3 LBS. (UPC 73657 00250) and 7 LBS. (UPC 73657 00251); Date Code: Best Used By Sept 13 08. Evolve has recovered 99.5% of the product from its distributors and is working with dealers to recover the remaining inventory.
No illnesses or injuries related to these products have been reported to date.

Pet owners who have purchased the pet foods listed above should immediately discontinue using the products and return them to the place of purchase for full refund. Pet owners should consult with a veterinarian if they have any health concerns with their pet. Consumers with questions may contact the company at 1-610-821-0608."

http://www.fda.gov/oc/po/firmrecalls/chenango05_07.html

--------------------------------------------------------------

5CatMom
₌^..^₌


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The OTHER Pat

Jr. Member

Posts: 18

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #251 on: March 15, 2008, 07:21:39 AM »

I'm still hoping Sandy will respond to the questions I posed here:

http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/natures-variety-grain-fee-kibble-troublecanine-t3910.0.html;msg51475#msg51475

I think that it's important for companies to look at writing specification limits that are more refined than simple "high limit, low limit" specifications - especially when animals' lives and health can hinge on how far from the "norm" the product is deviating.


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trucorgi

Full Member

Posts: 120

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #252 on: March 15, 2008, 07:42:12 AM »

5CatMom Those are my thoughts, exactly.
Sandy has said

Quote

It would be imprudent of me, however, to discuss all the business and contractual reasons that led to our establishing a manufacturing relationship with CV, initially for our Duck Meal and Turkey Meal and Rabbit Meal Instinct formulas. We moved forward in that regard after discussing their recall related experience with them and the circumstances surrounding it and the steps they had taken to insure it doesn't happen again. We also were aware of other brands produced there and were familiar with some of those companies and their standards and their positive experience there.

My question would be how long has CV been making the Duck, Turkey and Rabbit NV?

The Pet food list was updated this week 3/13. Everyone who researched and bought NV kibble was under the impression that it was ALL being manufactured at PP. Only if they had checked the NV website on or after 1/15 would they know of a manufacturer change. NV announced 01-15-2008 Kibble Diet News Kibble Manufacturing Facility Addition Why was the announcement made at that time if no complaints were made? The Whole Dog Journal was dropping everyone from their 2008 list that did not disclose their manufactures. NV disclosed and stayed on the list. Sandy says Chicken Instinct was only made at CV only on 1/3 and 1/10 but that other NV varieties were made there in 2007. Not sure I believe this because I had issues with chicken Instinct I bought in November, and others I know did too. But that is Sandy's position on my complaint. I'll take his word for it and assume there was another problem at PP prior to the problems at CV disclosed. I hope he will continue to investigate my complaint. It was valid. My decision to change food then has been confirmed in my mind as the correct one. Regardless, my hat is off to the WDJ for demanding full disclosure on manufacturers. They understand that consumers need information in order to make decisions. My position is that I do not want to patronize any manufacturers responsible for pet deaths in 2007. That is my right as an American consumer. And even though I appreciate Sandy coming here and answering my questions, CV has done nothing to gain my trust so I’ll take my business elsewhere until NV resolves their manufacturing issues. I hope they will and it sounds like they are listening to their customers and moving toward that now.


« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 08:54:59 AM by trucorgi »	Logged

trucorgi

Full Member

Posts: 120

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #253 on: March 15, 2008, 08:30:20 AM »

It has not been disclosed to the Pet Food List, or here which dry kibble was being manufactured by PP and which has been manufatdured at CV, or what persentage is/was/or will be made by each facility. NV has said on their website Immediate suspension of production at our secondary manufacturing facility where we identified the density issue, and we will not resume production at this facility until production standards meet our high level of quality Does this mean Duck, Turkey, and Rabbit Instinct or just the Chicken? Are any of the Praries kibbles out of productuion now too? This is not enough information for me to make a decision. Seems like luck of the draw weather you now have a bag of PP or CV manufactured Instinct or Prairie kibble. This should be clairifed.

http://www.thepetfoodlist.com/manufacturers.htm
CHENANGO VALLEY PET FOODS
Foods manufactured:
8 in 1 Ferret
Back to Basics
Drs. Foster & Smith Products
Evolve
Lick Your Chops
Nature's Variety
Shep
SmartPak

PIED PIPER PET & WILDLIFE, INC.
Manufactures dry foods.
No Pied Piper products have been recalled.
Pied Piper Pet & Wildlife, Inc.
P.O. Box 309
Hamlin, TX 79520
Phone: 800-338-4610
Foods manufactured:
Canine Caviar
Nature's Variety

MENU FOODS
Manufactures wet foods
Menu Foods Income Fund
8 Falconer Drive
Streetsville, ON
Canada L5N 1B1
Tel: 905.826.3870
Fax: 905.826.4995
Email: investorrelations@menufoods.com
Locations: Emporia, Kansas; Pennsauken, New Jersey; North Sioux City, South Dakota; and Streetsville, Ontario.
Foods manufactured:
Americas Choice, Preferred Pets
Authority
Award
Best Choice
Big Bet
Big Red
Bloom
Blue Seal
Breeder's Choice
Cadillac
Castor & Pollux Pet Works
Cats Choice
Companion
Compliments
Co-Op Gold
Demoulas Market Basket
Despar
Drs Foster & Smith
Eagle Pack
Eukanuba
Fame
Feline Classic
Feline Cuisine
Fine Feline Cat
Food Lion
Foodtown
Giant Companion
Giant Eagle
Grreat Choice
Hannaford
Health Diet Gourmet Cuisine
Hill Country Fare
Hy-Vee
Iams
J.E. Mondou
La Griffe
Laura Lynn
Li'l Red
Loving Meals
Master Choice
Medi-Cal
Meijer's Main Choice
Mighty Dog Pouch
Mixables
Natura Pet Products
Natural Life
Natural Ultramix
Nature's Logic
Nature's Variety
Neura
Newman's Own Organics
Nu Pet
Nutriplan
Nutro (Nutro Max, Nutro Max Gourmet Classics, Nutro Natural Choice, Nuro Ultra)
Old Mother Hubbard
Ol'Roy Canada
Ol'Roy US
Paws
Performatrin Ultra
Petcurean Pet Nutrition
Pet Essentials
Pet Pride
Pet Pride - Good n Meaty
Precise Pet Products
Presidents Choice
Price Chopper
Priority Canada
Priority US
Publix
Roche Brothers
Roundy's
Save-A-Lot Special Blend
Schnucks
Science Diet Feline Savory Cuts Cans
Shep Dog
Sophistacat
Special Kitty Canada
Special Kitty US
Springfield Prize
Sprout
Stop & Shop Companion
Stuzzy Gold
Tops Companion
Triumph
Truly
Wegman's Bruiser
Wegmans
Weis Total Pet
Western Family Canada
Western Family US
White Rose
Winn Dixie
Wysong
Your Pet

M. I. INDUSTRIES
MI INDUSTRIES
P.O. Box 29345
Lincoln, NE 68529-0345
Phone: 402-466-8302
Fax: 402-466-5441
Foods manufactured:
Nature's Variety
Honey Creek Farms

Nature's Variety (information provided by CEO, updated 3/13/08)
•   Brands include Nature's Variety, Nature's Variety Prairie, and Nature's Variety Instinct.
•   Canned foods made by Menu Foods but were not involved in the 2007 pet food recall.
•   Dry foods are manufactured by Pied Piper and Chenango Valley Pet Foods.
•   Frozen and freeze-dried raw foods are made in house. M. I. INDUSTRIES
•   All grains used are of US origin, except flax seed, which they get from Canada.
•   No wheat gluten is used in their products, or in the plant that manufactures their dry foods.
•   There is no rice protein concentrate used in any of our Nature’s Variety diets (kibble, cans, or raw). Furthermore, rice protein concentrate is NOT used anywhere within the kibble manufacturing facility.
•   Website states dry and canned foods tested negative for melamine.


« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 08:36:26 AM by trucorgi »	Logged

The OTHER Pat

Jr. Member

Posts: 18

Re: Natures Variety Grain Fee Kibble Trouble-Canine

« Reply #254 on: March 19, 2008, 03:05:41 PM »

Did this thread get locked? Did Sandy ever come back to answer our additional questions?


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