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EricV2
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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2008, 05:58:49 AM » |
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They're 5.5 oz cans. I'll have to check for sure what the codes are when I'm at home this evening, but I know they are Jan 2011.
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JustMe
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« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2008, 06:06:42 AM » |
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Thanks, Eric. I sent you a message.
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Never forget our cats and dogs and the Pet Food Recalls of 2007; the reason most of us are here!
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lesliek
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« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2008, 06:25:14 AM » |
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My neighbor Marsha had trouble with the dry Wellness complete cat formula being refused.Mindy ate everything through July exp dates fine,but was refusing everything with an Aug, Sept,Oct& Nov date. The last try was Feb & she is eating that with no problems.She doesn't use the canned.[red bag with the cranberries]
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"the world's most inept extortionist"
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JustMe
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« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2008, 06:41:08 AM » |
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When did you last have bloodwork done?
Two senior cats 2 weeks ago, complete blood work and urinalysis. My vomiter had blood work and urinalysis a couple months ago. Her lab work was perfect and vet wasn't concerned about the occasional vomit immediately after eating after examining her. She is a heavy cat. We do the extensive blood work screens, senior wellness screens. They cover quite a bit. ETA: I removed my post that this refers to where I mentioned blood work and urinalysis as it has been pointed out to me that blood work and exams don't guarantee there is no problem with food.
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 09:45:53 AM by JustMe »
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Never forget our cats and dogs and the Pet Food Recalls of 2007; the reason most of us are here!
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Offly_irked
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« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2008, 06:45:55 AM » |
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Chicken & Herring 5.5oz Best By 30 Jan 11 7WCHS4 13:58
When Scooter is fed Wellness, it's from the same case/lot #s.
She & Ling both eat this. MK refuses it.
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catbird
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« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2008, 06:48:44 AM » |
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What I'd like us all to do is compare notes, especially for wet cat food, especially pate'-style, all brands, produced during the time period specified above--with expiration dates from about Sept. 2010 to February 2011.
I'm not talking about the occasional refusal by one cat, or the occasional vomiting episode. I'm talking about consistent refusals of food that was accepted before, or recurring vomiting, that can be specifically linked to food produced in the specified time period. What I am trying to do is establish if there is a pattern for other brands. There seemed to be a pattern emerging on the Wellness thread, and when I saw a similar pattern with the Azmira, that's what started me thinking.
Information that your cats have been OK with similar foods produced during that time period is helpful, too.
The pattern that seemed to be emerging from many people with Wellness could, just possibly, be accounted for by their known formula change--removing the garlic. But Azmira says they have not changed their formula.
Information need not be only about foods produced by Menu, since, as 5Catmom pointed out, the pet food production companies seem to be closely linked, and may receive ingredients from the same suppliers.
Has anyone noticed a consistent pattern with other brands?
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JustMe
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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2008, 07:15:53 AM » |
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In light of that, catbird, I'd have to say "no" for my cats. They don't fit the pattern you are investigating.
ETA: Mine are all Menu.
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 08:28:17 AM by JustMe »
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Never forget our cats and dogs and the Pet Food Recalls of 2007; the reason most of us are here!
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EricV2
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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2008, 07:35:37 AM » |
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Catbird, Mine don't fit either.
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3catkidneyfailure
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2008, 08:03:41 AM » |
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I believe you need to include vomitting occasionally, along with outright refusals, on the assumption you may be encountering differing levels of perhaps the same problem ingredient(s). Changes in order of appearance on all labels. Maybe even possible changes in concentrations of vegetables. Are there vegetables in Azmira?
Read an article yesterday saying sweet potatoes have been shown by USDA testing to produce more ethanol bang for the buck than corn. Maybe they're searching for a replacement of sweet potatoes that is not a change indicated on the labels yet (the infamous six month gap)?
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 08:06:21 AM by 3catkidneyfailure »
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petslave
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2008, 08:19:45 AM » |
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I did notice the pattern on the Wellness thread about problems with lots from the beginning of the year. And some cats do refuse foods before others, while some are picky sometimes and not others. So there could be some variation in the patterns when looking for potential problems that shouldn't be rejected as not important. During the recall last year, some pets ate the food and got sick or died, some sensed a problem and refused to eat, so they do have variable bad food detectors.
Mine are a bunch of pigs and rarely refuse anything, except that Nov problem last year when 3 refused and some vomited. I haven't had trouble with the Jan/Feb lots, but then my cans are from the ANI plant out west here. EricV - you should check to see if yours are ANI packed since you haven't had problems.
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catbird
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2008, 08:34:52 AM » |
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Azmira Ocean Fish ingredients :
Ocean Fish, Ocean Fish Broth, Chicken, Tuna, Chicken Liver, Kidney, Oat Bran, Whole Brown Rice, Alfalfa, Calcium Carbonate, Kelp, Garlic, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Menadone Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Panthothenate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Biotin.
Azmira Beef and Chicken ingredients:
Beef, Beef Broth, Chicken, Chicken Liver, Kidney, Ocean Fish, Tuna, Oat Bran, Whole Brown Rice, Kelp, Alfalfa, Calcium Carbonate, Lecithin, Garlic, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Sodium Selenite, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Maganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Viatamin B12 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Panothenate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Biotin.
I know that many people consider some of these ingredients less than desirable, but when it is the only canned food that one of your cats will eat, you do what you have to! I figured it was better than having Phantom on a 100% dry diet.
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kittylyda
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2008, 09:43:52 AM » |
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Hi everyone.
I'm the other poster that has been comparing notes with catbird. When my cats started refusing Azmira a month or so ago I PM'd catbird as I know she feeds Azmira to her cats. Our cats have similar problems so we feed a lot of the same brands of food. My cats have eaten Azmira off and on for years and never ever have they refused it prior to a month ago. Catbird confirmed that her cats had started refusing this food as well during the same period of time. Also, during this same period my cats began refusing Newman's Own canned food, another food they were eating with no problems. In my desperation to find canned food my cats would eat that doesn’t include fruits or vegetables, I bought a few cans of a food we had used sporadically in the past called Precise. My cats always loved this food and they have not had any in several months so I know they can't be sick of it. They flat out refused to eat it after a bite or 2. One cat developed vomiting and loose stools after feeding this food, but I can't say for sure that it's related. Anyway, all these brands that my cats have been refusing mostly have expiration dates between Sep 2010 and Nov 2010. We know that Newman's uses Menu and I have always suspected that Azmira and Precise do as well, although both these companies use the "proprietary” information line.
After talking with catbird I emailed Azmira (twice) and finally got the following response: ------------------------------------------------------ "We have not changed our formulas but we do use natural ingredients that vary (individual variation not random ingredients) from harvest to harvest as Mother Nature does.
It is not unusual though for cats to suddenly decide they are tired of something either. Occasionally we have customers that will switch to another of the flavors for a bit and when they switch back their cats are very happy so you may try that approach.
In any case, Azmira has a money back guarantee and stands behind our products; return the uneaten portion to your retailer for a refund." --------------------------------------------------------- Pretty standard, not a lot of information there.
JustMe, in answer to your questions I feed only canned food, I don’t free feed and I have been using several different brands.
I don’t know what is going on, but it seems like there is a problem since so many cats are refusing so many different brands of food.
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catbird
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« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2008, 09:54:42 AM » |
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I have not used Newman's Own regularly in the past, but when the Azmira refusals happened, I tried some Newman's Own in an effort to find a food that Phantom would eat. With the Newman's Own, it was all or nothing--either everyone ate it or everyone refused it, depending upon the individual can. Unfortunately I did not write down the dates at the time, because I had not yet spoken with kittylyda. I can say that this morning I fed Newman's Own chicken and brown rice from 3 oz. cans with expiration date sometime in 2009, and everyone ate it (although Phantom did not eat much.)
I will start keeping track of dates for the Newman's.
Azmira has not replied yet to either of two emails I have sent.
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JustMe
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« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2008, 09:55:44 AM » |
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You will also need to factor in when the cans were produced, not just the best buy dates. Some brands are 2 years, some are 3 years.
Example. NV Instinct canned is 2 years , Wellness canned is 3 years.
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Offly_irked
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« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2008, 10:24:42 AM » |
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"It is not unusual though for cats to suddenly decide they are tired of something either. Occasionally we have customers that will switch to another of the flavors for a bit and when they switch back their cats are very happy so you may try that approach."
What Azmira said fits Scooter to a "T", even with her "adored" FF. Gourmet Chicken is on the refuse list, Liver & Chicken is the one she wants or the Wellness Chicken & Herring. That choice will change with her in about 2 weeks. Fish high on the ingredient list will make MK turn up her nose.
Things like this are why it is so hard on pet owners.. and why we didn't know in a hurry that we fed adulterated foods in 2007, or ever, for that matter. "Off their feed" was for good reason then and we didn't know it.. and we don't have the instinct our animals do.. add that facet in (their ability to sense some problems).
IMO, We are in worse shape than ever.
The pfcs won't recall like they did before IMO, much less before that settlement agreement is finalized. Stealth, I'd bank on it. Denial, I'd bank on it. And, I think they know how to make us doubt and make others doubt us.
Trust? It's out the window and we're each having to intimately get involved with our pets' eating patterns & habits.
Now, all we have are doubts and fears.. and the pfcs better figure that out.
If Scooter barfed, I'd absolutely put up a warning on the food. Would anyone believe it? Not unless you knew that Scooter has not barfed since I got her August 2007. Period Ever. Would I freak, absolutely. MK hasn't barfed since August 2006. Would I freak, absolutely. Ling, is a scarf & barf and can't eat much fish and can't eat much beef...a label reading would calm me with her barf.
Start diaries if you have a cat that barfs/refuses. Set regular bloodwork tests. It's the only way you can work out your cat personality & the food issues.. as well as to be used if needed to counter the bs from pfcs.
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