Do any forum readers PERSONALLY have problems with Nutro Food??

[JJ]

Some input wanted here - since when does it become a witch hunt on a company when people report pets either so sick, ill or near death to others on the pet forums that we are trying to burn em at the stake? Who has the right to say we are hysterical people on here - no one. Majority of us have had a pet be sickened or drop dead from this toxic food. And the food was from more than one company. Then we had the chicken strips that were loaded with more toxins and mold. So when we also posted about the treats being deadly were we on a witch hunt with the treats also?

The whole purpose of this forum now (thanks to Ben for starting this great site) is for others to come here for information that is not readily available elsewhere/that our members have gone out of their way to find and put here so everyone is informed and can make a reasonable decision whether to feed that food or not. People on here relay their experiences with the food and if others pets have similar experiences then yes we suspect the food and let others know so they can either stop feeding it, continue, home cook or hopefully find food that is not loaded with toxins.

No one here zeroes in on a specific company but if the bulk of people feeding a food have huge problems then yes the food is suspect along with toxic treats they may be unaware of.

So please those of you who come here to toot your own horn we dont do that. Most of us consider this a huge family of friends that help each other. We do not need dissension or posts that inflame and aggravate people still trying to cope and recover from the biggest disaster to hit the pet lovers and their humans in history.

Be kind, be considerate and if all you want to do is aggravate and irritate please take it off of here. Thank you.

[JessiesGirl]

SandiK, not disputing that people HERE are pretty consistent about posting lot and batch info--they are! But on consumeraffairs? Some of the other sites that are posted here occasionally? Not so much.

I did make that suggestion at ConsumerAffairs, months ago, and, for a few days, people posted that info. And then it stopped. Couldn't tell you why.

JJ, sorry that you see me as here solely to annoy and flame, as I am not, but you are obviously free to make your own determination of my 'trolliness' . I stand by my comments. I said, essentially,  that when people are posting incomplete information about what they were feeding their animals, and then decide it's the food that is causing the illness and go after that company with gusto, with incomplete info, and use anecdotal reports with little info to back up their opinion, we may have a bit of a witch-hunt going on, rather than anything that can be proven. I've also said that it is true that sometimes real problems are recognized from this sort of beginning to an issue, but not how they are confirmed.

I'm not here to 'toot my own horn'. I don't recall ever claiming to be an expert or to know more than anyone else about any subject.

yes, we do need dissension. Otherwise conversation and evaluation is impossible. i don't seem to recall any admonition that everyone had to agree all the time when signing up here. Perhaps I should re-read the TOS!

If you don't care for my posts, then don't read them.  They should be simple enough to skip over...

[Sandi K]

SandiK, not disputing that people HERE are pretty consistent about posting lot and batch info--they are! But on consumeraffairs? Some of the other sites that are posted here occasionally? Not so much.

I did make that suggestion at ConsumerAffairs, months ago, and, for a few days, people posted that info. And then it stopped. Couldn't tell you why.

JessiesGirl, I wanted to see the info about Nutro lot and batch numbers that you said people posted at CA but I went to their site and couldnt find anything in the Nutro section....I did find a post dated 3/24/08 where someone suggested people post the lot and batch info but Im guessing that wasnt you because that person was worried the food could have caused diarrhea in their dog and you said your dog had no problems.  I couldnt find your post either so maybe its all somewhere else and you could provide that link?  I wanted to see what they posted for batch and lot numbers.....Thx.   This is the only post I could find about batch/lot numbers.....

Erin of Bloomfield NJ (03/24/08)
I'm reading these reports of people having ill or dying dogs after using Nutro Foods with great concern, as I have fed my dog Nutro Natural Choice Lamb & Rice Adult Formula for her entire life (she's 5.5).She's only ever had dry kibble, so I wasn't concerned about her food as the dry kibble wasn't on the recall list.

So far, my 50 pd Heinz 57 mix has been fine, although she did have some intermittent pale stools last month that I did not connect to her food (I suspected some new treats) both because the issue was intermittent and because she's been on this food for the last 4.5 years (Nutro Natural Choice L&R puppy prior to that). But now you've got me very concerned that perhaps it was her food, and could be a growing problem! Maybe it was intermittent because in all likelihood there is more than one bag of food mixed in the container in which I keep it? So some days she gets more of one bag and on some days more of another? I'll be sure to speak to my vet about this as she is due in April for her annual vaccinations.

It would be really helpful, I think, if people would include the lot numbers of the product they purchased so consumers can get a better sense of whether this is a problem limited to certain batches/lots of product or whether there is a broad potential contamination. If it is certain batches/lots, that in no way absolves Nutro/Mars of any responsibility, but it might be easier to track and verify the problem if it is traceable to specific batches/lots of product.

My heart to goes out to all of you who have lost a pet or have seen your pets suffer. Such a terrible loss!

[JessiesGirl]

Sandi-that was me! We gave the treats to my mom, whose dogs don't have any issues with them(they'd eaten them successfully in the past), and everything returned to normal.  Jessie also gets pale stools if she has too much of a rawhide at one sitting, but she generally drinks a lot when she's had a rawhide as well, or if we go away for a few days(which I don't think we had) which is why I looked to the 'new' thing she'd been eating. I didn't find any corn in the treats, which I know will give her soft stools and/or diarrhea, so we avoid corn, but something in them bugged her. I'm guessing it might have been a coloring. Anyway, we got rid of the treats, and no issues since.  (We had only bought them--they were those colored MilkBones-because for some reason we couldn't find the Iams Original Small Biscuits for weeks on end in this area, and Jessie is a major fan of chew toys. We toss a few biscuits into her Kong Stuffaball and she is entertained for about a half hour.)   

There were a couple of posts in the next week or so that had batch info. I'll go see if I can pull those up.

The control button on this laptop has died, so I can't cut and paste from the consumer affairs site on the 'puter:

Adriane of Oak Park IL on 3/27 posted a batch number
Jacki of Dornsife PA on  3/25 posted a lot number
 Looking up through late April, I don't see any other lot numbers.

[JJ]

Jessiesgirl - pls go back and read your post on the comments about people posting on "OTHER" sites about Nutro. You put out a comment like that on here and it sounds like your putting the people on here on notice they did not post information when informing the forum members on here about the bad experiences with the Nutro food.

You can't visit other sites and read the posts and then come here and pitch a beetch to us - we do our research with posting of batch, lot numbers, best by dates, etc.

If you have a beef with the people on the other sites doing their posting wrong in your eyes - then by all mean complain on those sites - dont bring it here is all we ask. Do a little more reading here before coming off as this site has a problem with posting information on dog food problems.

Thank you!

[JessiesGirl]

Jessiesgirl - pls go back and read your post on the comments about people posting on "OTHER" sites about Nutro. You put out a comment like that on here and it sounds like your putting the people on here on notice they did not post information when informing the forum members on here about the bad experiences with the Nutro food.

You can't visit other sites and read the posts and then come here and pitch a beetch to us - we do our research with posting of batch, lot numbers, best by dates, etc.

If you have a beef with the people on the other sites doing their posting wrong in your eyes - then by all mean complain on those sites - dont bring it here is all we ask. Do a little more reading here before coming off as this site has a problem with posting information on dog food problems.

Thank you!

JJ, those "other sites'" are frequently linked to here. And I still stand by what I said--unsupported allegations need to be taken as what they are, unsupported allegations. They may be smoke from a fire we're about to find, but they might not. Yes, it pays to be cautious. But I am concerned when I see some people make connections that may not be there.

If you firmly believe that the community here is vigilant about posting specifics about their experiences, and they are certainly much more specific here than in many other communities, then I don't understand why you are taking issue with me. If a comment doesn't apply to this community and is not specifically directed at this community, then perhaps one shouldn't take it as an insult to this community.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I am still not sure what I said that offended you. My intention is not to offend, but, rather, to try to evaluate situations that might involve what I happen to be feeding objectively. Are you saying that I was not specific enough and should have specified which complaints I found to be difficult to track down? Ok, that I can understand. Point taken. If I am not interpreting your statements correctly, let me know.

We all have some history that brings us to these boards. I've been extremely fortunate not to have had an ill or dead pet during last year's tragedy. But I also have had people (not here) try to scare me to death about a food that has not produced ill effects in my pet, usually with no real evidence to support their claims.  Frankly, that's exhausting. And many of us know how exhausting it is to try to find a new feed that we can trust. We're not on opposing sides here, at least not in my view. This is a very emotionally charged subject for everyone. I'm not trying to upset anyone, but perhaps I need to consider how blunt my general style is. Perhaps it is interpreted as unfeeling, which would be a real shame, because that would be untrue.

And menusux, thanks for posting some specifics about Mars. That backs up my 'gut' that this sale is not a good thing for Nutro.

[JustMe]

JessiesGirl,

Are you comfortable with whatever it is that you feed?  If you are, great.     Everything is hunky dory then.

Please don't take offense, but I get the impression that you might be trying to talk yourself into being comfortable with what you currently feed.  I'm probably wrong, like I am quite often.  So, don't take offense.     I'm just curious.

If you are uncomfortable with what you feed, it is not that difficult to change foods unless you have an allergic animal.  You have 1 dog?

Okay.  I have 10 cats and 2 dogs.  Imagine changing all 12 of them?  Not once, but MANY times.  It wasn't really that difficult.  Frustrating and quite expensive, yes, but not difficult. 

I changed multiple foods/brands/dries/wets, for both species as the recalls continued to roll out.  I'd chose one, then it would be recalled.  Chose another, oops, recalled.  Chose another one, oops, cross-contamination recall.  Chose another one, oops, questions about rice protein, changed again.  Ooops, lot variations.  Changed again.

I changed from foods containing grains to grain-free.  I changed predominantly dry food fed cats to wet food fed cats.  If I can change 12 animals, I really don't understand how someone can't research and change 1 animal.  (unless one has an animal with allergies, then it turns into a difficult task).

I'm still trying out different foods.   Guess what, all my current cats and dogs are in great health.  Yep, I have hard copies of their current lab work.

Here is a thread in case you need help chosing something  (in case you are not happy with what you are currently feeding). 

http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/ask-questions-share-tips-here-on-how-to-choose-dog-food-t3547.0.html

And I am still not comfortable with any brand, never will be comfortable ever again.  If I had only 1 animal, I would be feeding raw or homecooking.  I just can't get my act together to do it for 12 animals. 

There are no guarantees with anything.  All we can do is our own research.

Again, please don't take offense.  Just thought I'd throw this out for your consideration.   

P.S. I did lose one cat last spring.  An elderly cat with health issues.  She was the one eating those not so lovely recalled and questionable unrecalled foods.  Fortunately, she was the only one eating the wet foods since my other cats were on mostly dry.

[petslave]

One thing that is different here - I think many of the people on these forums are much more cautious than a lot of other people that have pets. 

When those of us in that subgroup of itchmoans hear of 5 incidences of pets getting really sick or dying after eating a certain food, most of us abandon that food and start trying to figure out what is wrong.  This is a group of researchers & questioners focused intently on pet food problems. 

When we hear of more & more problems, we put this food in the defintitely dangerous category.  We don't wait till it's tested, we don't need hard proof from the company, we take the complaints we are reading about seriously.  We would rather not risk our pets' lives by trying out that bag, hoping this particular one isn't a problem one.

Unfortunately, this is all relative, because many of us are feeding foods that were made by mfrs that had recalls last year, or have had short term glitches in production with recalls for lesser problems.  For the forseeable future, nothing out there can be considered hands-down safe or unaffected, it's just a matter of risk taking.  Even home-feeders have to struggle with supplements from overseas.

Yes, we are considered extreme by 'outsiders', people that haven't immersed themselves in these issues to the extent that many of us have.  That's a big part of why we are here, so we can keep working out the best, safest way to feed our pets.  Everyone who has come on here, from pet food reps to newbies, to try to talk us into being more 'reasonable' has found it impossible.  Trust in products is very easily lost here, and not at all easily regained.

[PFR07PS]

If sharing from personal experience regarding concerns for a pet food can save even one pet from going through what my pets, and others, have experienced – it is well worth it.  Having test results to back up your concerns are even better, but I will not discount someone's observations and concerns regarding their pet’s experience with commercial feeds.  Our pets tell us more than we realize.  

In regards to proof, we require so much of fellow pet owners and yet so little of the PF companies.  
Donna C

[lesliek]

Well said Donna C ! Some of have found the hard way that some animals are more susceptible than others to too much or not enough of an amino acid or vitamin or mineral. The Nutro problem could be as simple as that. While I wish everyone on every website would post all info,test results for dogs or cats & on food and lot #'s & exp dates,I will not use any food with multiple problems. Treat or main food. In fact once I see more than 1 problem its off my consideration list.Even though none of my animals ate a recalled food,they have still gotten sick from 2 foods. I have posted here about both with all test results & symptoms and bag #'s. I know I can't convince everyone not to use these 2 foods,however if I didn't post about it and someone else's pet got sick or died I would be horrified. These people posting about Nutro may feel the same. They may not belong to a forum & know about posting #'s.Still as long as there are this many problems coming up,there must be something behind it. I don't want to find out the hard way what it was.My recommendation to anyone with any reservations about a food is switch !If your pet doesn't do well on new foods & everything about the old 1 is cleared up you can always go back to it. The worst thing you & your dog or cat will face is some diarhea or constipation from the switch. Still much better than death by poisoning.

[JustMe]

Those are good points, Petslave.  This community is very different from most in that the sole reason most of us came here is to try to protect our pets.  It didn't exist before the recalls last spring.  It grew out of the recalls.  It's a noncommercial forum.  Nobody makes any money from this forum, unlike a lot of other pet forums where discussions are quashed.  We've gotten to know each other here, and if 1 of us sounds a word of caution, we pay attention rather than discounting it as alarmist or anecdotal.  We question and research the heck out of it.  We squabble, of course, but for the most part, most of us are very protective of each other and each other's pets.

A lot of us have been here and on the blog for at least a year.  That's a long time in dog/cat years.  Pet food is a very serious matter to me.

[catmom5]

Petslave, you explained "us" so very well!  Thank you!

catmom5

[JessiesGirl]

JessiesGirl,

Are you comfortable with whatever it is that you feed?  If you are, great.     Everything is hunky dory then.

Please don't take offense, but I get the impression that you might be trying to talk yourself into being comfortable with what you currently feed.  I'm probably wrong, like I am quite often.  So, don't take offense.     I'm just curious.

If you are uncomfortable with what you feed, it is not that difficult to change foods unless you have an allergic animal.  You have 1 dog?

Okay.  I have 10 cats and 2 dogs.  Imagine changing all 12 of them?  Not once, but MANY times.  It wasn't really that difficult.  Frustrating and quite expensive, yes, but not difficult. 

I changed multiple foods/brands/dries/wets, for both species as the recalls continued to roll out.  I'd chose one, then it would be recalled.  Chose another, oops, recalled.  Chose another one, oops, cross-contamination recall.  Chose another one, oops, questions about rice protein, changed again.  Ooops, lot variations.  Changed again.

I changed from foods containing grains to grain-free.  I changed predominantly dry food fed cats to wet food fed cats.  If I can change 12 animals, I really don't understand how someone can't research and change 1 animal.  (unless one has an animal with allergies, then it turns into a difficult task).

I'm still trying out different foods.   Guess what, all my current cats and dogs are in great health.  Yep, I have hard copies of their current lab work.

Here is a thread in case you need help chosing something  (in case you are not happy with what you are currently feeding). 

http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/ask-questions-share-tips-here-on-how-to-choose-dog-food-t3547.0.html

And I am still not comfortable with any brand, never will be comfortable ever again.  If I had only 1 animal, I would be feeding raw or homecooking.  I just can't get my act together to do it for 12 animals. 

There are no guarantees with anything.  All we can do is our own research.

Again, please don't take offense.  Just thought I'd throw this out for your consideration.   

P.S. I did lose one cat last spring.  An elderly cat with health issues.  She was the one eating those not so lovely recalled and questionable unrecalled foods.  Fortunately, she was the only one eating the wet foods since my other cats were on mostly dry.

Hey there JustMe--thanks for trying to be considerate yet still make your point. No offense taken. I don't hold myself out as an authority and am more than happy to discuss things, hopefully without upset. Mehtinks I am too blunt sometimes. Maybe it's too many years of working in a male dominated environment, where succinct communication is preferred.

I've got no issues with what I am feeding Jessie, which is the Nutro Naturals Lamb & Rice kibble. We've done well with it. I'm really insecure about their sale to MARS, however, and have decided to switch Jess to Canidae. Not because we have a current problem, but because I fear that problems may be coming after such a sale. I think I have been clear about that--I'm concerned about the sale, rather than having any evidence of issues, and that my gut says this sale  can't be good. We've got about one week left to go before we begin the switch, which I am planning to do over two weeks. 

Yes, I just have the one doggie. If she weren't dog-aggressive, I'd have at least one more.

But my mom is a breeder and always has at least 7 dogs, not counting pups,and her cat. So yeah, I am familiar with the challenges posed by multiple animals. I also pet sit as a second job and see many dogs (and cats) through that situation. (Oh boy that brings up some sad tales--my boss there hates me sometimes because I am always doing a mini-health assessment on the first meeting. But hey, we need to know what was pre-existing and what is new if we see your pets occasionally. )

I am really sorry that ANYONE lost a pet, or saw one suffer last year. Believe me, when I think about 'if that had been Jess', it's a situation that brings me to tears and anger. It's dumb luck, and I know it, that we weren't affected by the recalls of last year.

I guess this is where I am teetering at the moment: I adopted a terribly underweight, diseased pup, have been feeding her Nutro Lamb & Rice puppy and then adult kibble, and have only seen her thrive. People(not from here) keep sending me links to unsupported claims of my food making their pets ill.  While Jessie is fine, healthy, exuberant and healthy. I am tired of being lectured about 'killing my dog' while she is happy and healthy. And being sent scare-tastic links with no evidence to support the hysteria. No, those links did not originate here. But they are posted here. Repeatedly.

It is hard enough to find something we can trust to feed our pets without the unsubstantiated stuff from other sites, is it not? I have ONE pet and it's making me crazy! How do folks with several pets, of varying species and quirks, find a solution? I just feel it's difficult enough without getting too far down the path of condemning  something without evidence. Everyone is on high alert regarding food. Rightfully so. And there is a subset of people who will play into and use that to their advantage, and there is a group who will immediately decide that their elderly pet fell ill because of food, and then there is a group that has documented claims regarding a specific food. I don't understand how what I said was so patently offensive. There are people out there posting away with little to no documentation. Is that prevalent here? No. But do we link to those claims? Yup.

I'm trying to stay sane in a crazy world. As we all are these days. Maybe I take a slightly more removed approach. Well, that's me. And doesn't step on the toes of those who feel it is more appropriate to heed the drumbeats early, and then later see documentation. We're all making our best guesses here. Aren't we?  Mine may not be yours. But they both are out there...

We all love our pets like family, and we're all suspicious of commercial foods.  Many of us are utterly perplexed by raw or homecooking.  We're going to come down on different sides at different times in the arguments, but we're all doing the best we can. We can all learn something from each other. We're trying to make our babies the best they can be, even though there will be debate about the best path. But we all want the same outcome.

[kaffe]

One thing that is different here - I think many of the people on these forums are much more cautious than a lot of other people that have pets. 

When those of us in that subgroup of itchmoans hear of 5 incidences of pets getting really sick or dying after eating a certain food, most of us abandon that food and start trying to figure out what is wrong.  This is a group of researchers & questioners focused intently on pet food problems. 

When we hear of more & more problems, we put this food in the defintitely dangerous category.  We don't wait till it's tested, we don't need hard proof from the company, we take the complaints we are reading about seriously.  We would rather not risk our pets' lives by trying out that bag, hoping this particular one isn't a problem one.

Unfortunately, this is all relative, because many of us are feeding foods that were made by mfrs that had recalls last year, or have had short term glitches in production with recalls for lesser problems.  For the forseeable future, nothing out there can be considered hands-down safe or unaffected, it's just a matter of risk taking.  Even home-feeders have to struggle with supplements from overseas.

Yes, we are considered extreme by 'outsiders', people that haven't immersed themselves in these issues to the extent that many of us have.  That's a big part of why we are here, so we can keep working out the best, safest way to feed our pets.  Everyone who has come on here, from pet food reps to newbies, to try to talk us into being more 'reasonable' has found it impossible.  Trust in products is very easily lost here, and not at all easily regained.

hmmm... yes - this describes me to  "T"    "Unreasonable" with regards to pet food?  Yes!  Guilty as charged!   

[Mandycat]

     I am bothered about the description of "us".  It sounds very exclusionary - like we don't welcome input from anyone new here who may have a different point of view.  It sounds like an attitude of "don't come here and give an opinion because our minds are made up that you are wrong and we are right - period".  I imagine it is very discouraging to anyone who is just reading the forums to want to join and participate in the discussions.  My comment here is not just in regard to this discussion about Nutro.  I've seen the same attitude pop up in various discussions over the time I have been here and have seen many new people leave, or at least stop posting, and wonder if it is because of not feeling welcome if their views don't match those of veteran posters.  We ARE all here for the same reason - our pets.  But this is a public forum and, as such, we need to be tolerant of the opinions and views of anyone who posts here, even if those opinions and views are not the same as our individual ones.  It IS possible to disagree respectfully and have thoughtful discussions that don't dissolve into nasty attacks.