Do any forum readers PERSONALLY have problems with Nutro Food??

[5CatMom]

. . . Quit expecting the companies to come out & say exactly what's wrong.  They won't.  Ever.  I thought this last year would have taught everyone that simple truth by now.

Well said, Petslave.

The PF Recall of 2007 and reports of continuing problems demonstrate the obvious:  Wholesome food is not the goal of many PF companies.   

IMHO, here's another simple truth:  If a PF company wanted to make wholesome food THEY WOULD. 

5CatMom
₌ ^..^₌

[PFR07PS]

 It was mentioned that the CEO of Innova came here to engage in open discussion (I've read that thread as it was happening).  That is someone who understands the power of the web and our new communication era.  And his companies stature goes up.

I disagree with your assessment of “open discussion” in regard to the Innova issue.  Natura’s President came to the Itchmo forum as a result of my test results being posted on-line.  The information was posted on July 1, 2007.  Atkins’ first response was on July 3 where he attempted to state I would not provide samples to them.  (They had received my samples on May 24, 2007 – signature verified.)  Atkins’ second post was on July 23 where he provided the results of their analyses.  Also, note my lengthy response giving clarification to the comparison of their analyses and mine and how the test protocols were not “apples to apples” comparisons. 

IMO, this was in no way “open discussion.”  At best this was a textbook example for public relations – controlling information and potential damage.   

Another member here posted “we've had the CEO's of Natura and Nature's Variety replying to our posts during their most recent PF issues.”  I have only been able to find two posts from Natura.  The most recent discovery with Natura was the significant levels of potato toxin contaminants detected in analyses completed at a State Department of Agriculture.  I have seen no public company response to those results.  Nor was there any response to other reports of concerns for pet illness, foreign matter in products or photographs posted on the lengthy thread.  Remember the repeated response "there is only one complaint"? 

THEY will never tell you, even if they know.  Why waste time & energy conjecturing about what might be going on, or what they might be thinking or doing?  Consumers must test products themselves now to find out why they are creating problems.  WE must test it ourselves.  Quit expecting the companies to come out & say exactly what's wrong.  They won't.  Ever.  I thought this last year would have taught everyone that simple truth by now.

Absolutely agree.  Open discussion should be a two-way street of on-going communication, but this would only work if both parties have the same interests/goals in mind.  However, the bigger, more critical consideration is one side of the discussion is attempting to protect the interests of their company.  This is a matter of revenues, profits and shareholder value. 

DonnaC

[Joe Z]

Petslave & DonnaC:  As I said in the rant - we're pretty much on our own.  It is the large organizations that have the money and clout to move this all along faster.  CA seems to be the only one running with this ball.  And we all need to organize to use whatever tools neccessary to get change.  It took years of work and education to force changes in the meat-packing industry at the turn of the 19th century.

Take a look at this law suit (notice Natura is named in here too - I said in the original rant - "The sad truth to all this is that we simply cannot afford to trust ANY pet food company at this point in time..." )

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202422055276

We can change this situation with Pet Food Companies.  I totally agree that they will not tell us on their own.  We can force oversight and regulation though -- it will be years of work.

Here's another article about Mars from PETA (stopping animal testing is a noble cause that I support -- I just wish that PETA put as much energy into the PF problems - because they have the money to test the foods and mount a campaign) -- Just another reason to not support any Mars company.

http://www.marscandykills.com/experiments.asp

[PFR07PS]

 I said in the original rant - "The sad truth to all this is that we simply cannot afford to trust ANY pet food company at this point in time..."

 I currently use Karma (from Natura), Natural Planet Organics and Brandon Farms Organic (from Blue Seal -hmmmm).  Currently, I like the companies and the products (and trust them) yet I will remain vigilant.  .....   And if I didn't somewhat trust some companies - I'd be making my own dog food.

Your posts seems contradictory and confusing.   
DonnaC

[Joe Z]

DonnaC:  Yes, I can see how you may be confused.

There is a macro picture and a micro one.  In the Macro realm, I don't trust the industry as a whole.  The micro is a choice we make in that realm.  I trust one over another.

A different example may be: I don't trust the airline industry -- but I do occasionally fly and I choose a company that I feel comfortable with.  That comfort and trust may be imaginary but if I'm going to fly, I need to make that choice. And personally I choose by airline - not price.  I believe that the airline I choose to be the best of the worst and has better odds of getting me and my luggage to the desitination I want on time with little hassle.  Otherwise, I drive.

How much do I trust Natura?  It's a PF company so not very much.  But from what I see (and I admit that I probably don't see everything), they are at least attempting to fill the niche of quality pet food -- which is most likely an oxymoron.  But I watch for all news on them and am vigilant.

One of the reasons that I choose to feed my pup Organic dog food is because, in my imaginary world, a company that takes the time and energy to ensure organic product - may -- just may -- be a little more conscious of overall quality.

But as I tell folks, even though it's organic - it's still the stuff that would not be sold, or can't be sold, as human food (despite the possible "human grade" label - a totally unregulated term)

It's never blind trust.  We watch and smell every bag & can we open and we monitor our dogs health daily.

Hope this makes my points a little less confusing!

[mainecoonpeg]

Beautifully stated, petslave.............

[mainecoonpeg]

Thank you Donna.
And also beautifully stated.......I too am reading double "type"

[PFR07PS]

Yes, I can see how you may be confused.

I’m not confused at all.  I was referring to your statements. 

Any company who produces products that test positive for contaminants, is responsible for pet illness or has production issues that result in blue plastic, hair, feather fragments, metal shards, etc. in the product is not worthy of my trust or my consumer dollars.  The aforementioned issues should not happen with quality pet food or any food/beverage product for that matter. 

No one deserves to have their pet die or become ill simply because it ate a commercial food.  No one deserves to live the nightmare of wondering what exactly their pet has been exposed to, deal with continuing illness or be concerned for the long-term impact on their pet’s health.  No one deserves to spend their own time and money battling an industry that assumes absolutely no responsibility. 

I am thankful every day, every moment that my dogs are still alive.  And I often reflect on the email a friend sent me the day she returned from the vet after months of closely monitoring her very sick pet and researching through all hours of the day and night to find answers.  I was out of town and emailed reminding her to let me know about the vet visit.   Her response was simply “she came home in my heart.”   

Trust – no way!  --  because no pet owner deserves what these companies have put us in the midst of. 
DonnaC

[mainecoonpeg]

"She came home in my heart"
Oh Donna.............

[lesliek]

I think you all know my feelings about commercial pf. However it is true that some Ceo's &/or co's responded better. I do not include in that list any pf co that implies that you are imaging things,lying,blackmailing,or that they were unreachable for 2 months, etc. If you don't know what I mean,read through the 100's of pages of Natura & Evangers threads.I don't like corn for pets,however Kumpi's owner came here & answered questions & is now testing the food & ingredients. NV also responded here & took our concerns & suggestions seriously & is now being a little more open[see todays post about their website]. Natural Balance responded to their recall problems by changing makers & testing & Newmans Own now demands certification about all their ingredients. Natures Logic gets all their vitamins & minerals from food,with no added mixes or premixes. There are several commercial raw co's doing the same.There are also a few treat co's that seem safe. Unless there is an enforcable standard for terms like organic,human grade or kosher they are meaningless.This is as always JMHO.

[Joe Z]

DonnaC:  Poor choice of words on my part.  Should have been:  "Yes, I can see how my comments can appear contradictory and confused".

I absolutely agree with everything you're saying!

Just to be clear:  I'm not trying to change any opinions here.  I came to this site because after reading it for a long time, I wanted to learn more from people I believe know a heck of a lot more than me on this topic.  As I've said - I'm learning.

Nor did I expect to be writing this much here:  I probably should have explained more of what my newsletter was about before I posted my opinion piece -- actually - I probably should have never posted it here -- I never expected the backlash -- took me totally by surprise.  I'm just responding to comments now - trying to backtrack and clarify me intentions and my writing- - I'm not trying to argue or convince anyone here of anything.

I'm still a newbie in many way in this field but I know more than many of my readers.

Here's what I'm encountering (as an example):  On Sunday, I was talking with a relative who believes that many of her last dogs problems (who died in 2002) were caused by tainted food (a high-end premium food).  What is she feeding her current dog???:  Nutro.  I talked with her for an hour about it but could not convince her there was anything wrong.  She would not check out CA. "just a bunch of disgruntled people" she said.  Total denial.

She used to make her own food for her dogs (for the last 2 years of her pups life after it got ill but she feels that he never recovered and the tainted food was the start of his problems) yet thinks that packaged food is better!!!

This is a highly educated women - degreed in nutrition and alternative nutrition - even was on a regular radio show as a nutrition expert (back in the late 80's - early 90's).  She TRUSTS Nutro (as I once did too).  Arrrggghhh......

I'll eventually convince her but it will take more time.

Today - a few hours ago:  Over at a friends house playing ball with their pup in the back yard.  A worker comes over to me (they're doing a remodeling) and starts talking about dogs because he used to have one just like this.  Young dude - probably late teens - early twenties. He says he loved his dog incredibly. They never let the dog in the house -- fed him "Kibbles & Bits" his entire life -- dog lived to 12 and the guy says he was always happy and hardly ever sick.  Wants to get another dog or two real soon.  Didn't hear about the pet food recall last year. 

I gave him my card and he said he'll check out the newsletter.

These are the folks I'm trying to reach.  My place right now in the scheme of it all, is to do my bit in educating the reluctant and unknowlegeable pet owner with my rinky-dink little newsletter. 

And I do hope that eventually, there will be enough pressure to force change in these companies -- or to force them out of business by switching alliances to a different company who puts quality first (if there is one).

Lesliek:  I was really hoping I could "trust" Karma.  Looks like I'll have to do a lot more digging on the Natura and Evangers front.  Natural Balance was one of the companies that I used until my pups refused to eat any of the last bag I bought.  It was probably just that bag.  I've received some samples of their products and fed them to my pups and they ate it fine.  But at the time, I said I'd wait at least a year before I buy more which I'll probably follow through on.

I think we CAN force change in this industry.

[lesliek]

JoeZ- We are all trying to get answers & warn people about problem foods & the more the merrier. I don't know how long you've been at this,but expect most pet people & vets & websites to pooh pooh everything as a crackpot or constant complainer.Please read those 2 threads,they are long but very worth the time[actually more like 4 threads]. Again JMHO,but I think after reading them you may want to change foods.I personally choose not to do business with any company that treats its customers that way,food or not.I would much rather hear we had a problem & this is how we are fixing it. No company is perfect,its how they deal with the problems & treat the customers that will earn repeat business. And in the case of human or pet food ,how they will prevent the problem from happening again. ps -the reason we all get our hackles up over possible sceptism is that we were stonewalled so many times over the past few years,only to find out too late that we were right about there being a problem. Almost everyone here has either lost a pet,or is left with pets with chronic illnesses.We have learned the hard way not to take anything at face value & research & check on everything.

[kaffe]

We have learned the hard way not to take anything at face value & research & check on everything.

Yep - that we do!  That we do!

[MarySmith]

Joe Z,

Those who post at Itchmo usually feel that they belong to a big family. I just noticed that you have never posted in the following sections. You are cordially invited to join the family by posting in them and sharing in the joys and sorrows of other members here at Itchmo.

Help With My Sick Pet
http://itchmoforums.com/help-with-my-sick-pet-b55.0/

Memorials and Support
http://itchmoforums.com/memorials-and-support-b58.0/

The Den - Show Off Your Pet Family
http://itchmoforums.com/the-den-show-off-your-pet-family-b66.0/

[credence]

You all want to know the truth about Menu Foods.  They've been deceiving the public a whole lot longer than before the recall.  Their big selling point was they had their own recipe and made their own food in their California plant and their food never had any byproducts.  They've been telling that falsehood for years.  When the recall hit they posted on their website a slight alteration to that statement - claiming only their dry food was made in their USA plants and it was something like 90% of their sales.  No wonder they sold out to Mars.  And where were they when Menu Foods in Canada was putting poison in their pristine pricey food they were telling the public was made in their local USA plant?