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Arabiannikki
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« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2008, 01:12:35 AM » |
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Arabiannikki: even if there had been no adverse effects in your vet's practice over metacam to date, I still think it is only prudent to relay what you have found out from forums like this and the numerous informative links provided here about the adverse reactions on metacam experienced by cats. No one can guarantee that the next patient your vet puts on metacam will NOT have an adverse reaction. The next cat or ferret or dog may not be so lucky.
I understand where you are coming from. I can only state what I have seen personally. We do know of adverse reactions in all animal species. That is why we always discuss any meds we want to give. we also always give the pet parent the drug insert with all the information. The same one thats posted here on the forum. Even without the information on this site we know the risks. There is not one nsaid that can't cause renal failure and liver failure. So you have to pick the one you feel is best and you have to inform the pet parents. we do that. There is nothing more we can do. We only have the drugs that are available. We do ot use incorrectly and we do the best we can. As I have said the way we use it we have not had a problem. Your right the very next animal can have a problem. Does that mean we should never use the drug? If thats the case we should not use any drug. I have way more reactions to antibiotics and steroids than pain medication. There have been numerous deaths by anesthetics. Does that mean we should not use it? As with any medication and all medications, there are no guarantees and the best any vet can do is inform the pet parents and do the tests that need to be done. There really is no other choice except no medical care at all. And even then its up to the owners. We can only use whats available to us and we can do the best we can. Some vets are better than others. Its up to the owners to do the right thing and research their vets. After that you can only hope it all works out OK. We really have limited resources when it come to pain meds. The owners want their animal out of pain and what else can we do except give them the insert and explain the possible side effects. Unfortunately death can be a side effect of some drugs. It took me 2 years to be comfortable giving my dog deramaxx. I still don't like it but she would otherwise be in extreme pain. I have to weigh the risks. I have her kidneys and liver checked every 2 months instead 3 to be on the cautious side. Thats just me. I wish more owners were like that but they are not. What else are we to do? Arabbiannikki: Thank you for taking so much care in explaining to me - us - where you're coming from. If as you say you are already excercising due diligence in informing pet parents of the possible detrimental effects of metacam and they still want to go ahead and use it, then yes, of course, you have done all you can. Its just that your original post gave the impression that you did not believe the first-hand reports from various pet parents here and elsewhere of adverse reactions on metacam. But I see now that you do know of the adverse effects and are not dismissing reports out of hand. Sorry about the impression of the first post. Your welcome for the information. I only tried to tell what we do and what we see. We are very careful with all drugs not just nsaids. And as I said before the vet in this case messed up with the second dose. I was just trying to explain why we use it and our experience with it. Like everything else on the internet for every bad report you can find a good report. it all comes down to the individual animal, their health and the knowledge of the vet. |
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kaffe
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« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2008, 06:36:01 AM » |
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So, Arabbianikki, can you enlighten us here what the fantastic vets in your clinic used to prescribe for pain relief (cats, dogs and ferrets) before metacam was introduce in 2003?
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"A righteous man respects the life of his animal, but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel." (Prov. 12: 10)
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it" (Old Chinese Proverb)
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Orange Fuzzball
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« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2008, 08:11:54 AM » |
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Sandy, stop. You didn't kill him. This is not your fault. You're not a vet; it's not your job to know all the possible side effects and potential dangers of the meds your cat got. That's your vet's job, and he didn't do it very well. You're doing a good thing by letting people know what happened to you and hopefully preventing it from happening to other people's pets. I don't know much about metacam, but thanks to you and others, I know "better safe than sorry." There has to be a better-tested pain med out there, should KD ever need one. |
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ranger
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« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2008, 11:09:00 AM » |
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Sandy that is so sad, I am so sorry for your loss. I want to thank you for the information you may have saved another cats life. I am going to be sure my girl never gets this medicine.
Judy
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kaffe
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« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2008, 04:17:57 PM » |
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OF is right Sandy - we bring ourpets to the vet becuase they are supposed to KNOW what's to be done. The vet failed your poor kitty - not you! You did everything in your power to keep your kitty healthy and to solve his health issues. And your angel kitty knows this. Hugs, Sandy - please don't blame yourself for what happened.
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"A righteous man respects the life of his animal, but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel." (Prov. 12: 10)
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it" (Old Chinese Proverb)
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Arabiannikki
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« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2008, 06:22:51 PM » |
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So, Arabbianikki, can you enlighten us here what the fantastic vets in your clinic used to prescribe for pain relief (cats, dogs and ferrets) before metacam was introduce in 2003?
Not sure if your being sarcastic but I'll answer anyway, The same thing every other vet used to use before metacam. All the other nsaids. (which by the way have the same side effects and warnings) deramaxx,rimadyl and various narcotics. (which also have their own side effects and warnings) |
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« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 06:25:27 PM by Arabiannikki »
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Laurie
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« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2008, 06:29:13 PM » |
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I was under the impression that rimadyl and deramaxx were only approved for use in dogs.
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Arabiannikki
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« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2008, 07:17:50 PM » |
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Most veterinary drugs are "approved" for dogs and most other species are used "off label" as described in previous posts. When I listed the drugs used I wasn't speaking exclusively for cats.
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« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 07:22:37 PM by Arabiannikki »
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lesliek
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« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2008, 07:33:59 PM » |
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I think the important thing to learn here is that we need to do research on any meds or vaccines just as we have learned to do with food.For our pets and ourselves. If we don't watch out for our families, no one will. Whether they are a dr,vet or gov't agency.The people we used to trust to tell us about any problems are all trusting someone else to tell them. We are on our own. Just be glad we have one another to help with the research. For each heartbreaking case of a bad side effect, there is the benefit of the posting warning others.Like I said before,we are learning the hard way.
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"the world's most inept extortionist"
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kaffe
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« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2008, 07:52:10 PM » |
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Exactly right, Lesleik... that's why I prowl the bloggs and forums for anecdotal reports on this or that pet product... the massive recalls last year taught me to do that... at least this way, one gets a "heads up" on possible problems with any product one proposes to use or give to a companion animal. When there's a "heads up" - I try to dig up more information. Sure, one shouldn't trust everything one reads off the interenet. One has to look up the SOURCE of that information. It gives an indication whether said information can be trusted or not... however, as we all have learnt from last year, the sources we were taught to trust either lagged in giving vital information (the FDA, UCDavies, the veterinary community) or outright lied to us (many petfood manufacturers and suppliers). So who am I going to turn to? I reasoned with myself... I will LISTEN to other pet parents who are going through the same thing I am going through.... and do my own research.
I am profoundly grateful to those pet parents who, in the midst of their loss and grief, still take time to warn the rest of us about a product that kills or sickens pets.
I am so glad that my cats' vet never adminsters metacam to cats (I called and asked him this afternoon - he knows about possible kidney/liver complications and so avoids metacam for cats). Two years ago, when my cat had 4 extractions, he prescribed an opiate called Torbugesic for pain relief.
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« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 07:59:53 PM by kaffe »
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"A righteous man respects the life of his animal, but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel." (Prov. 12: 10)
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it" (Old Chinese Proverb)
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petslave
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« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2008, 08:20:30 PM » |
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The scary thing is we have no clue what they administer when our pets go in for surgery, just like with people. I've looked at cost lists of surgeries (mine & my mother's) & it's downright amazing how many drugs, supplies & equipment they use without our knowledge. I'm sure it's much more simple with pets, but they do get different substances at every step of the surgery.
When my little dog went through a bout of pancreatitis in Nov., the vet said they would give him pain meds while he stayed in overnight on fluids. I of course wanted to know what they were - lidocaine in his IV drip which was apparently a hot new use for it. If the vet had not given me details about treatment, I would have never known that pain meds were going to be given.
I guess nowadays we just have to try to stay educated like kaffe says, and ask about every detail of any treatments our pets are getting. Next time I sign a surgery form at the vets, I'll add a no metacam statement on there.
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SandyBeach
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« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2008, 09:04:39 PM » |
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Thanks Nikki for clarifying that and Kaffe, OF, ranger, Leslie, Laurie, petslave...I just do not want anyone or any other kitty to go through what we did and mine did. Sure if the vet came up to someone and said "Hey, this is a huge risk to use but do you want me to try Metacam " I can see someone weighing the INFORMED risk. I know I had a cancer drug used on me expermental (I don't and didn't have cancer) to try to treat something and I had pages to sign and 2 weeks to read them..also my doc went over all the risks..I worked in the medical (human) field but like Petslave said...they )not all but many) do not tell us what they are going to use while our pet is in the hospital...Its like yes, like the petfood thing..who would have thought pre-recall to call the petfood companies one uses to ask if they add tylonal or CA or melamine....That is how I was blind ..I wont let it happen again...Having sued and won ..correction it was settled by Pfizer see the sr dog project a lawsuit against Pfizer (Rimadyl) I do not approve and my current dogs file is marked NO NSAIDS ....If I want him to have one I will give him asprin So in part my point is....see your vet BEFORE SURGERY get a LIST of all meds he/she may use and check them out then mark off what is NOT approved by you...See the drug company websites and what is not approved use....LIKE METACAM ..for cats under 10 pounds and at that an only ONE time injection AND my second point is...if something goes wrong do not keep going to the same vet to see why..and what...go to another for a second opinion I should have ....I really should have  I thought to and waviered cause I didnt want to stress my cat more and its a long ride to the other vets and I think I was just worn out too. I loved my cat and spent 16 years being his mom...I should have thought and fought more ..I do like my vet as a person ..I know him well..I do not believe he meant any harm ..he was negligent...The last maybe 3 weeks he wanted to do exploratory surgery but I didn't want him cutting my old sick kitty up just to let him go on the table...That cat had had enough .. I am so sorry wasnt smarter than I was and didnt go for an ultrasound ..my vet doesnt do them and maybe that would have shed some light on what was going on ...but maybe not ANYHOW....My experience sez follow what the drug company sez and do not allow more than 1 injection...IF YOU allow this drug at all..Personally I would not allow it at all |
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Arabiannikki
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« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2008, 09:15:56 PM » |
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Thanks Nikki for clarifying that and Kaffe, OF, ranger, Leslie, Laurie, petslave...I just do not want anyone or any other kitty to go through what we did and mine did. Sure if the vet came up to someone and said "Hey, this is a huge risk to use but do you want me to try Metacam " I can see someone weighing the INFORMED risk. I know I had a cancer drug used on me expermental (I don't and didn't have cancer) to try to treat something and I had pages to sign and 2 weeks to read them..also my doc went over all the risks..I worked in the medical (human) field but like Petslave said...they )not all but many) do not tell us what they are going to use while our pet is in the hospital...Its like yes, like the petfood thing..who would have thought pre-recall to call the petfood companies one uses to ask if they add tylonal or CA or melamine....That is how I was blind ..I wont let it happen again...Having sued and won ..correction it was settled by Pfizer see the sr dog project a lawsuit against Pfizer (Rimadyl) I do not approve and my current dogs file is marked NO NSAIDS ....If I want him to have one I will give him asprin So in part my point is....see your vet BEFORE SURGERY get a LIST of all meds he/she may use and check them out then mark off what is NOT approved by you...See the drug company websites and what is not approved use....LIKE METACAM ..for cats under 10 pounds and at that an only ONE time injection AND my second point is...if something goes wrong do not keep going to the same vet to see why..and what...go to another for a second opinion I should have ....I really should have I thought to and waviered cause I didnt want to stress my cat more and its a long ride to the other vets and I think I was just worn out too. I loved my cat and spent 16 years being his mom...I should have thought and fought more ..I do like my vet as a person ..I know him well..I do not believe he meant any harm ..he was negligent...The last maybe 3 weeks he wanted to do exploratory surgery but I didn't want him cutting my old sick kitty up just to let him go on the table...That cat had had enough .. I am so sorry wasnt smarter than I was and didnt go for an ultrasound ..my vet doesnt do them and maybe that would have shed some light on what was going on ...but maybe not ANYHOW....My experience sez follow what the drug company sez and do not allow more than 1 injection...IF YOU allow this drug at all..Personally I would not allow it at all Your welcome and Its very sad you had to go through this. I wish all vets would be as cautious and upfront as the one I work with are. I'm glad we have not had any problems. maybe thats because we are so diligent in what is used and how its used and when it should or shouldn't be an option. I think more vets lean toward metacam because the opiates do not last very long and they have to be dosed multiple times which sometimes really stresses the animal and if the owner has to do it they might not comply. I have been in this industry long enough to know that most owners are nothing like those of us here. They hardly ever follow directions and we are lucky if they dose the animal one out of the 4 times a day they need it. I wish they were all like you and those here. My job would be much easier. Remember that you have to be able to trust your vet. In an emergency for instance you don't want the vet to have to explain every med and every thing they are doing. That could mean the difference between life and death in an emergency. So interview your vet choices as you would your own doctor. Trust is most important. I wish we all had all the answers and that all treatments were safe but I know better and the best we can do is to learn as much as we can and do the best we can. We really can't do more than that. I know I wish I could. |
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SandyBeach
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« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2008, 10:09:59 PM » |
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Thanks Nikki ...I have nothing against the vets you work for if they tell people the med is off label and has a risk to it and get the written consent you mentioned...hey then its up to the pet mom and dad and they can deal with the consequences if any are to be had.
We do not agree on blind trust for the vet in an ER situation. I have been in ER with pets and was in the room with the ER vet..they ran everything by me..fast but by me...and of course knowing as many meds ahead as we can will be helpful in situations that require emergency care
Jumping back..I wish my vet had THOUGHT about the fact I was and running subq fluids on my cat daily as well as syringe feeding him so giving an injection or another pill or liquid would not have been an issue for me...I really did think he was getting codine shots..My vet, the vet in question I have known him and used him for 8 years if you had asked me 6 years ago if he would mess up like this I would have said no..one can never know for sure no matter how well they choose a vet but yes it is wise to do the best you can picking a vet..and as I now know, even that can fail...then you ought to be as informed as you can and then some I guess
This cats death will haunt me more than all the other pets I have lost over the years...It really was a nightmare of cosmic levels
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