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« on: September 23, 2008, 07:53:17 AM »

I'm cross posting this so that we can talk to our vets about the urine tests;msg88349#msg88349

found this ...does say we need further studies..."no kidding" Angry

NTP Research Concept: Melamine/Cyanuric Acid
Gonçalo Gamboa da Costa, Ph.D.
National Center for Toxicological Research, FDA
NTP Board of Scientific Counselors Meeting,
June 11-12 2008, Research Triangle Park, NC

That article has the first clues we possibly can use to help protect our pets!!!!
I'm taking that to give the vet for the next wellness checkup!

Phase 4- Biomarkers of nephrotoxicity
Investigate the occurrence of metabolomic and proteomic early biomarkers of melamine + cyanuric acid-induced nephrotoxicity, obtainable by non-invasive methods (urine)
>Homovanillic acid sulfate
>-GST *
>-GST *
>RPA-1 *
>Clusterin *
>Urine metabonomic profiling by 1H NMR
* Human nephrotoxicity biomarkers currently undergoing evaluation by the FDA

Oh, Carol! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you for finding that!!!   I just faxed it to my vet so she can check the lab & costs. I'd like her prepared before the visit.. maybe she'll have more info if she gets a chance to see it now.

UPDATE1:  My vet just called and the lab they use doesn't run those tests. If I find a lab, they'll get them done.
UPDATE2:  I just spoke with the state Vet diagnostic lab/investigational lab & neither of the UGA labs can do the test. Referred to Cornell or UCD as they do most of the "odd ball" tests.
UPDATE3: I've emailed Cornell and NTP for ability/reference list to labs  that does this type of testing.. I'm not holding my breath, either  :
UPDATE4: I've emailed Banfield, and the author in the UK from this link about the type of test:
UPDATE5: Emailed ACVIM, AVMA & VIN.. and the CDC

If this test is supposed to be an early detection system, it seems to be a pretty well hidden system  Angry at least asking might get them looking at it...  Sad

I'll post here to try & keep answers together & will refine it as they come in:


Thank you for contacting the American Veterinary Medical Association.  I know that the University of Minnesota was the veterinary college that originally found these markers.

AVMA suggests contact the following places to find out which labs may have the test abilities.
Vet Med Colleges:
American Association of Vet Lab Diagnosticians:
American Board of Vet Toxicology:

« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 09:20:18 AM by Offy » Logged
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2008, 03:23:36 AM »

"Citing other studies, Daniel Chan, nephrology professor at the University of Hong Kong, said: “Results from the investigations that followed the pet food incident in 2007 suggested the level of contamination in our food chain was low and thus unlikely to cause significant adverse effect in humans.”

Cap on melamine

Hong Kong placed a cap on melamine in food on Tuesday, restricting it to no more than 2.5 milligrams per kilogram. Melamine found in food for children under 3 and pregnant and lactating mothers should be no higher than 1 mg per kg."

But experts criticized the limits.

“That 1 mg limit is arbitrary. Like a lot of carcinogens, the limits are constantly being brought lower. 1 mg may be harmless, but over the long term, it is not good. Ideally, it should be banned, it shouldn’t be allowed,” Yu said.[/u]


Obviously, reality trumps the guessing by the FDA.

Midwest Labs that tests for many pet food companies has an MDL of 10ppm.

It's time to call the pet food companies and make sure they know - Is reality trumping their testing protocols now.

This IMO makes discussing the biomarker urine test with your vet very important.

If it is true for babies and melamine, we're probably first handers saying it's been true for some pets:

""A medical expert fears that the food safety scandal involving contaminated milk from China could get worse since the effects on humans who have taken melamine-contaminated milk are not immediately visible.

In a telephone interview with ABS-CBN News Channel (ANC), Dr. Wenceslao Kiat, a toxicologist at the St. Luke's Medical Center, said "the biggest problem here is...if you've taken any milk product that contains melamine, you don't see the effect overnight."

"However, he said the effects of drinking melamine-contaminated milk cannot be seen overnight. "That's why I think it's long term."

« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 03:43:18 AM by Offy » Logged
Sandi K
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2008, 09:08:17 PM »

OK so do the same rules apply with just cyanuric acid too? 

Good finds Carol and Offy. 
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2008, 10:56:45 PM »

I agree good finds you guys. Now this Dr. Kiat says the effects are long term - does that mean it will take more time to show up in an adult or the effect of this will be long term should it happen to an adult?

May your troubles be less,
Your blessings be more,
And nothing but happiness
Come through your door
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Trooper,Remy & Fragile

« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2008, 04:25:07 AM »

Printed these out & took them to the vet yesterday,he was very glad to have them ! Said it was about time someone worked on this.

"the world's most inept extortionist"
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2008, 05:36:03 AM »

Leslie, Does the lab your vet uses run the tests?

BTW: It might be a good thing to give to your personal doctor.. the FDA is "working on" the human risk assessment and it seems it's the same urine test..
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Posts: 3200

« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2008, 05:40:05 AM »

I didn't know if we have this here somewhere...

and from last year too over at PC...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 05:42:17 AM by Carol » Logged

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” — Margaret Mead

United we stand     Divided we fall....
Sandi K
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Posts: 7365

« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2008, 06:34:15 AM »

Quote from Offy's article above:  Melamine found in food for children under 3 and pregnant and lactating mothers should be no higher than 1 mg per kg."

So who are they going to have test down to 1 ppm?  Havent we found that very few labs in the U.S. test down that low?  Once again, how bout NO melamine period allowed in any food?  What part about NO MELAMINE dont they understand?   Huh
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2008, 06:39:30 AM »

I think it's the archaic science we might be using to "protect us"..

The Wiki article said in China they said in 2005 to use "isoelectric" testing to find contaminants in Pseuo Rice Protein.  Did we ever hear that type of test out of the PFCs, FDA or anybody here?

The BPA research is hitting the same problem, the FDA science is so outdated that the research scientists are strugging  trying to get the FDA to even comprehend much less recognize the new data that has been presented.

IMO, we could easily be rated a 3rd world nation if they judged us (our goverment & many companies) on science.
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2008, 07:04:51 AM »

Anybody else just want to pack up and move to a pet friendly, people friendly, environment friendly EU country? You all are bringing up such good points and we (USA) aren't looking so good right now!
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2008, 09:50:31 AM »

I have given the urine biomarkers to my vet and she will research and find labs that do these tests.
She was very pleased to see this information.
Thank you!!

As far as melamine in food is concerned, how about no ppms in anything that we eat, our pets eat, babies eat, cattle eat, fish eat, chickens eat, pigs about that?
WTF......for the life of me I don't understand the need to boost protein using NPN.  Is there not enough protein in the milk or oh silly me, if they water it down, they need to boost the protein.

This is completely and totally insane!!!!!

I read a small article yesterday about a 3 year old Chinese baby with a calcified kidney.  Her kidney will have to be removed in order for it to not become necrotic.  Fortunately she has 2 kidneys or she'd be's that simple. Angry
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 10:09:28 AM by mainecoonpeg » Logged
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Trooper,Remy & Fragile

« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2008, 10:04:09 AM »

No the regular lab doesn't test for these. He's going to try to find 1 that does,also hopes if enough vet clinics are asking about it some labs will start doing it.

"the world's most inept extortionist"
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2008, 10:09:13 AM »

Leslie, that's is my hope too! More vets know about it means they have income and we are at least establishing some sort of record that would hopefully "prove" exposure to MARC in pet foods.
No more PFC B>S> or shell games with their lab tests & protocols & QC .

ps .. as I get info , i'll update up in the top of the thread & in volunteers - just to put it in a state, like I did earlier with MN.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 10:15:46 AM by Offy » Logged
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2008, 04:21:51 PM »

Somewhere in my unscientific mind, there are memory alarms going off about something called
DART testing that was effective at low levels. It's just that DART equipment is so expensive, almost no one
has it. But don't hold this humanities bozo to this. Could be an old person memory f*rt Shocked

I gave this biomarker info by email to my vet, who is in a practice of about 12. He said they would discuss it and
get back to me. I asked about the possibility of retaining frozen samples for my two little survivor girls. He said that could
be done in your own refrigerator's freezer under sterile conditions almost indefinitely. Maybe sometime soon there will
be a standardized test for cats and dogs, which one could then have performed.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 04:46:52 PM by 3catkidneyfailure » Logged
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