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Author Topic: Are there bacteria risks with raw feeding?  (Read 10721 times)
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bug
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RIP little angel Katey


« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2009, 06:35:10 AM »

Thanks for that article, Mandycat. It's good to have contrasting information to chew on.
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My little babies, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
Mark T
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2009, 06:37:46 AM »

Thanks for that article, Mandycat.  She is no fan of raw food, but she dislikes mainstream commercial pet food even more! Her book: Food Pets Die For talks about the many risks of feeding commercial pet food.

Her article has several contradictions though. She makes her case against raw by citing several different issues, two of them being bacteria and the improper balance of nutrients. Then as a solution she suggests homemade cooked diet or one of the non-mainstream human grade pet foods available at enlightened pet stores:

- I cannot see how cooked homemade solves her issues of the improper nutrient balance in raw. If someone cannot verify the raw food they are making is balanced then it will surely be worse when they prepare it cooked. Bottom line, raw or cooked need to be checked for nutrient balance.

- Non-mainstream human grade pet food, as she calls it, has as many problems as the mega PFCs.  Besides, the term "human grade" has little meaning in a largely unregulated industry.

So, I respect her comments on the bacteria issue, though would have liked to see her reference her sources. Nutrient balance equally applies to raw, cooked and commercial. Her points about enzymes seem to have little relevance to raw being bad.

Clicking on her name yields some other interesting articles by her.

« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 06:59:08 AM by Mark T » Logged
Spartycats
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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2009, 07:25:32 AM »

Mark T said,
"So, I respect her comments on the bacteria issue, though would have liked to see her reference her sources. "

One source is:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14736718

From within this article:

"Healthy adult cats appear to have high immunological resistance to the development of clinical salmonellosis. In one study, experimental infection of healthy cats required inoculation of infectious organisms in numbers far exceeding those likely encountered in natural infection. Susceptibility to and severity of Salmonella infection is dependent on multiple factors, including inherited virulence factors of the pathogen, infectious dose, and host resistance factors. Host resistance to Salmonella in cats may be influenced by a number of variables, including age, immunocompetence, hospitalization, cage confinement, multicat environments (e.g., multicat households, animal shelters, catteries), medical or surgical procedures, chemotherapy, administration of exogenous glucocorticoid therapy, gestational status, prior or concurrent disease, and possibly prior immunization. Both of these cases originated in the same multicat household, and the affected animals were either very young (10 weeks) or very old (14.7 years), suggesting possible environmental stress, altered immune status, or both. Additionally, case no. 2 had concurrent respiratory infection with Bordetella bronchiseptica, incurring additional immunological and physiological stress with compromise to local pulmonary defense mechanisms. A recent report described a possible association between an outbreak of fatal salmonellosis among cattery-raised kittens and their earlier vaccination with a high-titer modified-live panleukopenia vaccine. Case no. 2 also had a history of recent vaccination for feline panleukopenia"
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bug
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RIP little angel Katey


« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2009, 07:38:28 AM »

This is why I don't take media reports or authors' accounts too seriously if they seem to be sensationalized or biased. Citation is very important as is critical thinking. You do need to read the scientific literature to make sure results were as reported. More often than not, an author will skew towards their bias.
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My little babies, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
Auntie Crazy
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« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2009, 07:35:07 PM »

This article by Ann is very disappointing. I respected her research into the pet food manufacturing process, but if she brought the same attention to detail to that work as she did this article, then it's sadly suspect.

Pets are just as susceptible to the bacteria and parasites in raw meat as humans are.

This statement is just flat out ridiculous, but if one wants proof of how insanely false it is, one has to look no further than the dry pet food salmonella poisonings over the last year - multiple owners became ill from just handling the food, yet NOT ONE of the pets actually eating it was reported sick.  just one CDC article

When I asked Geoff Stein, DVM, he wrote: "The problem with these 'natural' diets is the misguided assumption that 'natural' is better. It's 'natural' for wolves to die of salmonella once in awhile." He added that wolves would probably be healthier if they ate cooked meat. (emphasis mine)

Just laugh out loud funny. Sorry, Mother Nature, you missed the boat on that one!

Cats are also susceptible to bacteria found in raw meats. A case study, published in 2003 in the Journal of the American Animal Hospital Association, involved cats that developed salmonellosis as a result of a raw diet. "The salmonellosis caused gastrointestinal upset, weight loss and anorexia, leading to both cats' deaths." Salmonella cultures from one cat were identical to cultures from the raw meat the cat was fed. "The resulting infection was confirmed as cause of death in both cases," the study said.

Exceedingly disingenuous. As Spartycats has already pointed out, these cats were both "high-risk" AND SICK before they ever came down with S, not to mention a possible link to susceptibility due to the panleukopenia vaccination. Nor were the cats in a controlled environment as this article implies - they came from an outside multi-cat household and were included in the report due to the fact they contracted S. The report actually states (but the article fails to note), "Healthy adult cats appear to have high immunological resistance to the development of clinical salmonellosis. In one study, experimental infection of healthy cats required inoculation of infectious organisms in numbers far exceeding those likely encountered in natural infection." (emphasis mine)

To date, there are no studies that conclude that raw diets are healthful for pets. Even the Pottenger Study--often cited by raw food supporters--was undertaken between 1932 and 1942 and provides no clear-cut consensus whether it was the raw meat, the cod liver oil or the raw milk in the diet that promoted a mortality decrease in cats. Until the study can be replicated with today's control standards, we can't accurately interpret the results.

*cough, sputter* Is anyone seriously suggesting the cats were healthier because of cod liver oil or milk? Milk is contraindicated for cats, for crying out loud!

This article also completely neglects to point out that Pottenger's cooked diet cats had reproductive problems after several generations, which improved ONLY when they were put back on a raw diet.

The rest of the article just repeats the usual refrains against raw feeding, without a scrap of proof or even semi-solid science. Wolves die of S.? Under what circumstances? And we know this how? As for nutritional benefits, it's been well-documented that many nutrients are unstable - some are even compromised by light and/or air! (see page 12)- so it is beyond ridiculous to claim a cooked chunk of meat is more nutritious for a carnivore than fresh raw!

Why didn't Ann quote any raw feeders? All these cats and dogs dying and getting sick and breaking teeth and NOT ONE raw feeder could be found to validate these warnings?

Extremely disappointing. There are pros and cons to feeding ANY diet, so presenting the case in a biased or misleading manner is completely unnecessary. *sheez*

P.S. I can read itchmo at work, but I can't post --- I stewed ALL DAY about this article!! I used to think Ann was an awesome researcher, now I find out she's passionate about her beliefs but not so much about logic and science.  :-(
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AC & Crew: Allen, Rachel, Meghan, Spencer, Heather & Ralph

CatCentric.org
: Raw feeding, feline nutrition & related health blog, article and resource site.
bug
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RIP little angel Katey


« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2009, 06:05:43 AM »

AC, maybe it depends on who's greasing her palm.
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My little babies, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
Auntie Crazy
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« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2009, 07:58:52 PM »

I'm just posting this because I came across it while looking at articles about raw food feeding and, since the questions presented for this thread is whether there are bacteria risks with raw feeding, I thought this article should also be included here since it presents a slightly different point of view than what has been posted.  I have no problem with anyone's personal choice to feed raw, but those considering it should look at all the pros and cons.

           http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FKA/is_6_67/ai_n13788104/

By the way, Mandycat - I meant to thank you for posting this article and realized I never did. So I am now - thanks! Every little bit of info is good! Even when it's overblown, it gets the discussions going and that always a good thing, right?   Smiley
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AC & Crew: Allen, Rachel, Meghan, Spencer, Heather & Ralph

CatCentric.org
: Raw feeding, feline nutrition & related health blog, article and resource site.
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