Thank you for the information petslave.
Good to know about the beef issues.

Hello petslave and lesliek,
I only just saw these...Thanks for replying.

petslave:
I don't mind cooking separate diets - that's the least I can do.

I got an email back from Feline Instincts (The one that you can only use raw meat for). They offer a lot of advice, but they also said I should not use a kidney diet.
The meat must be raw to preserve the enzymes... is what they wrote.

I found a positive review for feline future (the other company) on the about.com Web site:

Product Review - Instincts TC from Feline
http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/gr/instinctstc.htm

Apparently, the feline future company has been around for 12 years, and they are in Canada (which is where I am)
I spoke with them and one can use cooked meats.

I hope Tessa (and Tony) continue to do well!

Here is an interesting article:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=18624064

lesliek:
I think the Feline Future company allows more "variety" compared to Instincts.

Thanks again!

P.S. You know how one is supposed to take several days to change foods for cats, would that also be the case changing from chicken to beef?

Hi petslave,
I just found this on the Feline Future Web site:

Recipe for Kidney Formula: Cat Nutrition Facts from Feline Future
http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/kidney_formula.php

This uses the Instincts2 Therapeutic Formula.

Hi petslave,
I am getting more and more info from those links -- Thanks!

Instincts 2 Therapeutic Formula is low protein and is used for some kidney diseases.
I'll have to increase the protein somewhat. The reason this was suggested was for Nelly and her intolerance of fiber.

http://www.felinefuture.com/shop/index.php?map=CANADA

actually I just found the "Feline Instincts" Web site for the first time.
They have CRF diets,
http://felineinstincts.com/privacy/FelineCatKidneySupportDietCatKidneyDiseaseSupport.html

They also have a liver diet. I'll look into that one but I think Nelly will need a different supplement (to increase her white cell count).

The toxicology screen will take a week.

Thanks!

Hi petslave, and thank you so much for posting the information and links!

I am having a toxicology screen on Carma's blood. Just to be safe.

Also, she is going back on antibiotics for a longer time.

CRF seems to be so common in cats, it would be good to follow the CRF diets with the changes that you suggest (adding protein for both and fiber for Carma)

I'm considering this product:
Instincts 2 Therapeutic Formula
from here:
The Feline Future Cat Food Company
http://www.felinefuture.com/

Feline Future - Raw Cat Food Ingredients
http://www.felinefuture.com/cat_food/raw_cat_food_ingredients.php#nutrition

I wanted to make their food during the melamine crisis but was not sure about the multiple vitamin and calcium sources. There seem to be so many potentially poisonous things for cats.

I'll start with the instincts 2 therapeutic and go from there...

Many thanks again!



 

Hello petslave and lesliek,
I appreciate the replies!

petslave:
They eat:
Nutram Premium Dog and Cat Food -- Dry, Weight control
http://www.nutram.com/petfood/_n_/weighcontrol.aspx

and:
Performatrin Ultra: Cat (Ingredients: Slim Care Salmon & Olive Oil (dry))
http://www.performatrinultra.com/cat/cdi_salmon.htm

Performatrin Ultra:Cat (Nutrient Content: Slim Care Salmon & Olive Oil (dry))
http://www.performatrinultra.com/cat/cda_salmon.htm

Thank you for the link! It is very helpful.

They've both had many samples tested for pathogens (The sample containers have a preservative (or something) that's supposed to increase chances of finding thing.) (They also get monthly revolution...)

The vet mentioned a Web site "balanceit.com" that has supplements etc. to make home-food.

Carma's thyroid test came back normal, and the clinic is running a repeat biochemistry panel on the extra blood.
I think if I can get good supplements I can vary the amount of rice for Nelly....

lesliek:
Carma will not touch even a very tiny amount of the Hepato-support capsule contents in pumpkin or acidophilus yogurt at all.
I'll get the fish oil capsules tomorrow. I got some smoked salmon pieces and I'll try it later. There are also spicy-looking smoked fish but they write "spices" under ingredients so I don't know whether there are spices like garlic that would be bad for cats but they look like they'd overpower the capsule content taste...

I really appreciate the replies, information, tips etc.
Thanks!

Thanks lesliek,
What kind of fish oil? Cod-liver or similar?

Hi lesliek and thanks for replying.

Carma gets a bit more of the nutram. Both brands do contain a lot of copper (in fact more than the recommended amount).

Plus I am giving her 1.5 teaspoons of pumpkin which has copper (she is not getting much anymore)

I want to start the Milk thistle today. But I got it from the vet and it is called "Hepato-support". It is in a capsule. I'll try putting the capsule contents in the yogurt but she is losing interest in the yogurt - I'm going to try fruit flavor. (the only things it has (compared to the plain) are: agar agar, dried citrus pulp. (and pineapple and vanilla natural flavors)

I'll ask the vet tomorrow about the antibiotic again.

Thanks!


 

Hi,
I posted twice in the "Help With My Sick Pet".
1. Liver Enzyme Values (Actual Numbers)
http://itchmoforums.com/help-with-my-sick-pet/liver-enzyme-values-actual-numbers-t5957.0.html
and

2. I need a miracle for my little ones (kitties)
http://itchmoforums.com/help-with-my-sick-pet/i-need-a-miracle-for-my-little-ones-kitties-t6161.0.html.

Carma's Liver ALT is now 155 IU/L (Normal range: 5-110 IU/L)
In August it was 147 IU/L; after 10 days of antibiotics it was 115 IU/L, and 2 weeks later (September 13) it was 155 IU/L.

She has also become noticeably quiet. I am EXTREMELY worried (which I am sure does not help her).
I have asked the clinic to check her thyroid and to redo her renal function, but I heard in the news last night that 2 people in China have been arrested for putting melamine in baby's formula (human). And I am suspicious...

I would like to know a relatively easy to make home-made meal for both of my cats that is helpful for liver problems.
The other cat (Nelly) has normal liver function but I would assume the diet would be advantageous for her (since it would be low fat). and she tends to eat too much.
Nelly however has a chronically low white blood cell count (below normal) also cannot eat fiber (She gets constipated from fiber)

I live in Canada and can therefore get InstinctsTC (I think)
The Feline Future Cat Food Company
http://www.felinefuture.com/cat_food/

I adore these 2 kitties and would stop at nothing to help them (unless they would suffer).
They are both only 3 years old.

Thank you very much in advance!

Hello mainecoonpeg,
Thank you for the Welcome and for the reply!

I am looking into getting the Genesis Resources Feline Immune Support Formula (I live in Canada - there is some sort of customs regulation I need to check).

I am glad it helped your kitty.

Thanks

Hi Sandi K and petslave,
Thanks for the replies...

Sandi K:
I wasn't told how much yogurt to give her... I'm testing out different amounts (small ones)
I'd like her to get a bit of both (yogurt and pumpkin).
She likes them and I don't want her on lactulose and the vet does not want her on long term colace -- he said he could not find any information about using colace chronically in cats and there might be long-term problems.

petslave:
I did not know about the vitamin A being unavailable
I'm cutting down to max 2 teaspoons a day; the yogurt seems to be working but I have not figured out the dose yet (want to do this all gradually)

Here are 2 links.

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WALTHAMTNAVC2003&PID=3671

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_feline_cholangiohepatitis.html

I couldn't find information about an immune booster for Nelly. Her blood tests were normal before she was spayed but her white blood count has been low (below the normal minimum) since she had the surgery.

I really hope Carma's immune system was not damaged.

All I can do now is keep them as stress-free and happy as possible; get annual antibody titers (they are strictly indoor cats but it is the "law" for the rabies); bring them twice a year for routine physical exams and lab...

Thanks again for the replies!

Hi petslave, Sandi K, lesliek and catbird,
Thanks very much for answering, for the prayers, good thoughts, and information / advice!

I hope so much they continue to improve! Carma will be tested again in 8 days...

Sandi K:
The vet thought she had cholangiohepatitis. He said it is a bacterial infection so she was on 10 days of antibiotics. I also wonder if it was from too much pumpkin (stool softener) (i.e. the vitamin A) I was giving her up to 6 teaspoons a day.

lesliek suggested acidophilus and the vet wants Carma to have the acidophilus with yogurt…
I just started her on it today - she really likes it!

As for the vaccines: The vet says it is not from them but they are always at the back of my mind...

Nelly, (the younger kitty) has a persistently low white blood cell count... I would like to give her an immune booster (I'll search and maybe repost if I can't find anything here).

lesliek:
Thank you for posting the link.

I am very grateful for the help and thank everyone very much again!
XtanyaX

Hi catwoods and lesliek,
Thank you so much for replying!

I talked to the vet today and her ALT is now 115 IU/L (normal is 5 - 110 IU/L), so it has improved (down from 147) -- and I am so grateful!
She has to have it redone in 10 days.

The clinic supplies the active ingredient of milk thistle... which I'll start.

They eat the following:
"Performatrin Ultra Slim Care Salmon & Olive Oil"
http://www.performatrinultra.com/cat/cdi_salmon.htm

and
"Nutram premium weight control".
http://www.nutram.com/petfood/_n_/weighcontrol.aspx
(both are dry but I add water).

The little sister cannot eat fiber (She gets constipated from fiber).

I have not tried acidophilus but the vet said it is a great idea but to get yogurt containing acidophilus.
Also he suggests psyllium (Metamucil).

I'll use all 3 (pumpkin, yogurt, and psyllium) (less of each)

I don't see the liquid milk gylcerine on the "Mountain Rose Herbs" Web site...

I thank you both very much again for the replies.
XtanyaX.

Hi,
I posted several weeks ago about my cat having a relatively high ALT (up to 110 IU/L) but she had 147 IU/L. She also had increased hemoglobin, hematocrit.and decreased reticulocytes.
Today I called the vet whose receptionist gave me a run-around and wouldn't tell me the values - she was retested on the 30th (Saturday) (The vet I usually deal with was not in today)
I love her EXTREMELY much.
I messed up with 2 other clinics SEVERELY - and she ended up with 7 (SEVEN) vaccines and a shot of program flea rx before she was 4 months. I wasn't informed about anything (V.A.S.) and among the 7 she received the FIV vaccine.
She did not drive herself to the vets so ultimately it was my responsibility.
I find out tomorrow... and I don't think I can ever be without the cat (she is only 3 years old)

I also have her half-sister; (4.5 months younger) who loves the older one. I love her EXTREMELY much too. (She is also only 3 but she had the bare minimum of vaccines)
She's had a low white blood cell count (below normal) and currently it's the neutrophils. Her reticulocytes are also below normal. (The vet didn't mention it). She would be devastated if something happens to the older one.

Does anyone know anything about milk thistle? Also, she is on pumpkin (as a laxative) she gets up to 6 teaspoons per day. I've read that increased vitamin A can cause liver enzyme abnormalities.

Does anyone know what I can do? I don't think I could survive without either one (but I don't think her little sister could survive either)

I am sorry this is so long
Thank you

Hello and Thanks to all for the replies and the welcomes!

I got the lab results for both cats (with the reference ranges):

C has the elevated ALT: 147 IU/L (5 - 110 IU/L). She also has an elevated hemoglobin: 157 g/L (80-150 g/L) slightly high hematocrit (0.46 (0.24 - 0.45 L/L)).
Creatinine is the upper end of normal (172 (50 - 177) microM/L) and normal BUN.
"Icterus" is "normal".

N - her half-sister has had a low white count (since she was spayed) 3.7 (5.5 - 19.5) X10E9/L; mild neutropenia 49.5% (abs: 1.8 (2.5-12.5 X10Eg/L)). The vet has just said to follow it. (she is asymptomatic)

lesliek:
I got their results (above). The tests were sent out.
They are both calico females; 6 colors. same mother. I brought them to the vet at the same time.

Mandycat
The vet clarified the mix-up today
Thanks for the link!

Sandi K
The cats had no symptoms. I wanted the tests done because of N's low white count and C's vaccine history etc. and the possibility of another incident of food contamination.

Thanks for the link! I also read that cholangiohepatitis can only be diagnsed by biopsy. In addition, if icterus means something yellow I'd assume it would be positive. She has no jaundice.
Neither are overweight.

Thanks to everyone so much again for the replies!