I believe the dogs have already confirmed something has changed. 

You have to wonder if they (any PF Company) test any of the food they request pet owners to return to them for "testing." 

Why have a consumer go to the time and expense to complete paperwork and return a sample of pet food they are concerned about when they have no intention of testing.  When I told (my) former pet food company their food had large black chunks in it, I offered pictures and samples of the food.  They said they did not want pictures of the questionable product.  Then she told me she would check to see if they wanted me to send a sample in. 

Guess it's not much different across the companies.
Donna C

Natura:  http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/florida/flsdce/1:2007cv21221/295436/369/

p.38


Funny, I saw no directions or warnings that told me to remove the big black and/or beige chunks from the food before feeding (and the packaging still exists, being safely maintained in a secure location with a responsible third party). 

How about the others, were you told to remove the feather fragments, hair, sutures, metal or blue plastic, etc. prior to feeding?

What about the potato toxins?  Did you sniff the bag, send it to the laboratory for testing prior to opening, etc?

(And, someone please explain to me what is "not unreasonably dangerous"?)

DonnaC

Which brings up a good point –  this situation is really no different from the one with Innova/Natura (or others). 

Recurring Theme:
Pets get sick. 
Pet Owner monitors and determines the one common factor to the sickness is the pet food. 
Pet Owner attempts to work with company to see if there are any formula changes, other complaints, etc. 
Company says no changes, no problems, great food. 
Pets continue to have problems. 
Pet Owner monitors and still believes sickness is linked to pet food. 
Pet Owner pays to have pet food tested. 
Laboratory advises Pet Owner that contaminants and/or high levels of supplements are detected in said pet food. 
Pet Owner contacts Company hoping (and desperate) for assistance. 
Company replies that all their tests are fine, no other complaints and their food is great.

At this point any manner of responses can occur:
-  Pet Owner is accused of not providing samples to Company for testing
-  Pet Owner is accused of not communicating with Company
-  Pet Owner is accused of false statements
-  Pet Owner is accused of extortion
-  Laboratory is discredited. 
etc, etc, etc,

Bottomline, one thing that is common to these experiences with the pet food companies is commonly seen in good “public relations” maneuvers.   You take the focus off the negative and you turn the focus to something else more positive.  If a company has a problem, the PR group is called in to downplay what is going wrong and focus on something good.  It is simply a diversionary tactic.  They do not address the issue at hand, but attempt to whitewash over it. 

Think about all the questions that have been asked on this thread.  How many of them have actually been answered? 

Instead, the focus was changed to put you to work thinking of various types of analyses you would like to see completed.  So, what happened to answering the questions? 

LeslieK explicitly asked that Mr. Weaver respond if he was accusing her of extortion.  Mr. Weaver responded with ambiguous words. 

The FDA issued an Order to Obtain Emergency Operating Permit and the company responded that the FDA report was highly inaccurate and misleading; falsely stated and then absolutely denied they were even operating under the Order. 

I’m glad everyone is suggesting things to test for.  However, I hope we do not lose focus on the original list of questions, the horrendous allegations against LeslieK and the issue of private test results. 

At some point, the pet food industry forgot that we are totally responsible for their salaries and the success/failure of their companies. 
Donna C

The unfortunate thing is so many still believe the 2007 recalls were limited to the melamine/cyanuric acid contamination of Menu products.  Not true.  How many other products not under the Menu umbrella have tested positive for toxins or showed elevated values of other ingredients that could potentially be harmful?

Mr. Weaver,

Having been through a similar experience as LeslieK, with another company, I understand her concerns regarding the comments you have made in this thread.  They are, at the very least, unclear. 



You have asked forum members to be specific in their requests for suggested testing.  I would ask that you be specific in addressing this allegation.  If LeslieK is not the person you are referencing in regard to “an extortion attempt” then state that clearly so there is absolutely no doubt for any of us, especially LeslieK.  Extortion is a serious allegation. I would not want to see the uncertainty of your comments harm or disparage LeslieK’s reputation if she is not the person in question.  Furthermore, I certainly hope this allegation is not being used as a means to bully, threaten or invoke fear in other pet owners on this forum. 

(Edited to add:)  I think you and your company owe an apology to LeslieK if you cannot substantiate this allegation. 

Donna C

How timely.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/artsandliving/comics/king_beetle_bailey.html?name=Beetle_Bailey

Be sure date is on May 15.

Regarding posting test results (in case any of you forgot the Innova thread discussion) -- for test results to mean anything you have to know specifically what is being tested, at what levels of detection it was analyzed, who did the testing and how was the testing done. 

The critical point is, of course, testing levels if you are comparing results.  I am now of the belief that product testing is a lot like market research, you can make the data look any way you want.  You have to know if you're comparing apples to apples, especially in regard to a consumer's test versus a pet food company's test. 

Personally, after 17 months of this mess test results mean nothing to me.  If I owned a company I certainly would not tell you there was a problem. 

Public Relations has the responsibility to manage communications for a company, both internally and externally and to maintain a positive image for that company.  PR firms want to accentuate the positive and downplay the negative.  I think this is commonly referred to as “spin doctor.” 

Mr. Weaver identified his position as Rocky Mountain Territory Manager.  While everyone appreciates his involvement, I am very curious why a Territory Manager would be addressing issues of such a critical nature that are national in scope for this company and why is the Pres. or VP not involved? 
DonnaC

We all know the facts –   issues with ingredients, nutrition, production, labeling, safety/health, contamination, etc.

With regard to a “90-minute meeting” --

Consider this . . .

Current numbers from APPMA (American Pet Products Manufacturers Association):



Our pets are not taken seriously when it comes to safe pet food – they use toxic ingredients to falsify protein values, they use contaminated foods, they provide analyses of their products that are misleading and confusing, they use garbage from the human food industry, they tell us there are “no complaints”.   

So our pets are valued when it comes to financial gain, but not when it comes to safety.

Disappointing, but not surprising. 

Donna C

The FDA’s Mission Statement details the various functions of their agency as a means to protect the citizens of the United States.  However, the FDA expects citizens to take time off from their employment, travel to Maryland at their own expense, arrange for means to care for their families while they are gone, with only a possibility of being able to speak before the Committee.  (And why have they made it so difficult to submit comments electronically?) 

Dealing with citizens who are the very consumers who purchase these products is very different than dealing with the powerful, wealthy corporations who manufacture these products. 

I’ve sent many letters to associates of the FDA with absolutely no response or even acknowledgment.   Only once did I receive a response and when I called the FDA employee as she requested, she admitted she thought I was someone else and would not have replied to me otherwise. 

Donna C

I have a question for those of you who have horses -- does it matter running a female against males?  I'm familiar with athletics and training from a human and dog perspective, but I have no experience with horses.  I understand accidents, but what I don't understand in this one is both front legs at the same time and from a horse who is trained to run.  It's just tragic.
Donna C.

If you are referencing the “canine influenza”, these links should provide some good information.  Much of the early research for the canine flu has been done at the Univ. of Florida.  Dr. Cynda Crawford is one of the leading vet researchers on this topic. This was a very hot topic in 2005-2006.  I'm not sure where they are on research at this point.  Here are a couple of sources for information. 

These are very good resources:

http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/pr/nw_story/CANINEFLUFACTSHEET.htm



http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/pr/nw_story/AAHAcaninefluQ&A.htm

a radio interview on NPR
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4930930

Hope this helps.

Donna C

And they still think this is limited to melamine and cyanuric acid? 

Donna C

Yes - I do think they "knew" what was going on and specifically what was causing the problems.

No - I do not think we will ever get the truth from any pet food company.  The sole purpose of a corporation is to grow profit and market share.  This has never been about the truth.  It is about protecting the assets of the company. 

My first contact with pet food company -  early January, 2007.  Numerous contacts after that.
Their response -- "no changes in formula."  "You are the only complaint."

I am still amazed at the marketing claims of pet foods overall.  "100% Complete & Balanced."  "Healthy."  "Nutritious."  In general, print ads for pet foods contain enticing pictures of delicious looking veggies, fruits and meats.   Really???   If it truly is so nutritious with human grade food ingredients, then any one of us should be able to eat it.  (I still have approx. 150 pounds of never-to-be-used-again dog food if you want to chow down. ) 

They may have fooled me once, but no more.  My dogs were sickened and their lives changed forever. 
Donna C

Thoughts to consider:

1.  There have been and still continue to be problems with other foods aside from the Menu recall. 
2.  There have been other toxins detected.
3.  Pets are still getting sick. 
4.  There are pets that were made ill last year that continue with health issues.
5.  There are serious concerns for the long-term impact on the pet's health after exposure to any one of the toxins.
6.  20% of the foods recalled have not yet returned to shelves and 10% have been discontinued.  Has anyone looked to see if these manufacturers are distributing products with new names?
7.  Media focuses only on the impact to sales for the industry.
8.  We are told the impact to the industry - when will someone look at the impact to a pet owner whose pet was made ill -- vet bills, meds, lab tests, analyses done on the pet food, fees for education on home cooked or raw diets, amount of time to home cook because you no longer trust the system, legal fees, etc.   And for those whose pet died - burial or cremation fees. 
9.  Everything is focused on money - what about the emotional devastation of dealing with the death of a pet or the illness and continued health problems for a pet?  Has anyone in this industry said, "I'm sorry about your pet?"   Has anyone taken responsibility?
10.  The industry believes they were ""already pretty safe … and it's safer now than it was," says Greg Aldrich."    What does the average pet owner think? 
11.  How many people actually take the “word” of the pet food company that their product is safe, healthy, and they test for toxins.  Do you trust what they tell you when you call them? 
12.  The pet food companies have readily disputed the results from private laboratories; how will they dispute the results from State Deptartment of Agriculture Laboratories? 
13.  Are you amazed by some of the gifted researchers here on Itchmo and how they can find problems, ask questions and search for answers.  Why do we not see/hear the industry doing the same? 
14. The title of one article was "remembering" the recall  --  some of us never forgot, we live with it every day.


Donna C
Home cook for 2 dogs since June 1, 2007