This is a little OT, and I hate to hijack this thread, but we've talked about brewers yeast...and that is what I will soon need for Jake.  Have been finishing up huge bottle of tablets.  He get half of one in the morning and the other half at night.  We used these same tabs for our Suki (long gone over the rainbow bridge sweet Suki) and it kept the sand fleas and regular fleas off Suki and then Jake, too.  Bought them at one of the big chain pet food stores.  I want some tablets that are not MIC, w/ no ingredients MIC.  Suggestions?

BTW, we started Suki on Kyolic (garlic) tablets at same time we started brewers yeast.  It was suggested by local (HMB, not where we live now) chiropracter for those pesky n-see-um kind of sand fleas.  It worked on humans so the theory was why not on dogs?  Well, our vet OK'd it, said for some dogs it worked, others not.  They said it also could cut down on mosquitoes if we went inland.  It did!  In HMB we didn't even use heartworm prevention unless there was a dog that would be traveling and then of course those owners needed to do it. 

We moved to the Pacific NW and continued the brewers yearst tabs and garlic tabs.  Then by the time we got Jake, I was reading no garlic for dogs.  Probably the small amount in one of the tabs was not enough to do any harm but I erred to side of caution and no more garlic tabs.  Jake, however, would be broken hearted if he didn't get his treat after we swallow our own pills after breakfast and dinner.  Besides, he has had only one flea a couple of times, which I bet was picked up at vet office in waiting room and hadn't jumped off yet.  Around here, I don't think they even jump on him because there's no itching, scratching and never a sign of the little buggers' flea dirt.  No skeeters, no fleas and no monthly prevention except just plain heart worm prevention.  We live in wetlands, so that's a must.

Dog keeps baby safe with her own litter!  This rather small dog found a baby in a field, left there shortly after birth by a very confused 14 year old girl.  This little dog had a litter of puppies and upon finding the baby drug him back into her own nest with the puppies and evidently nurtured him until her very astonished owner came upon the unlikely scene. 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7577275.stm

Loki, what I find interesting is that although our dog appears to be allergic to the kibbles w/ grains, he is not at all allergic to the grains we put in his home cooked meals.  Makes me wonder a bit about the grain souces used by the PFI?  Just wondering.  Obviously, most dogs are doing OK w/ kibbles that are not grain free, and so it is an individual issue.  For kibble our Jake gets Orijen Adult and alternates w/ Orijen Six Fish.  He has no problem w/ the ingredients in those two grain free foods.  Perhaps it is something other than the grains in the other brands he does not tolerate.  (He got very itchy and his coat turns dry and falls out in clumps on prior feeding programs.)

I wondered about the high protein level in grain free foods.  Jake's annual blood work was fine, however.  Also, when we serve the home cooked he does get meals w/ much lower protein, so that is playing into the total diet here as well. 

The answer as to what level of protein is actually correct differs depending on what I read.  I try to console myself w/ the fact that my grandparents' dogs were fed kitchen scraps and no one thought a thing of weighing and measuring and calculating how much of what they got.  They all lived well into late teens and one that was dropped off on their country road as a young dog lived several healthy decades on my grandparents' farm. 

I'm allergic to mosquito bites, too, and also even 'tho Jake is on hearworm prevention I don't want the nasty buggers biting him.  We use Skin So Soft from Avon mixed w/ water in a spray bottle.  Both of us.  It seems to be working.  Skeeters and bees love me.  I think just perhaps it is blood glucose levels being high?  Maybe my carbon dioxide is too high as well?

JJ, slow cookers are absolutely terrific for making dog meals here at home, just as you said.  We then chop up the results quite fine and freeze individual meals.  I can see how your method would work quite well, especially if we want to have things on hand to add to dry kibble.  For instance, perhaps we want to up the carbs in the total meal.  The veggies, grains, and/or potatoes would have flavor of the meat juices "melded in" and would be a real WOW.  In Jake's case a BOW WOW.  Last night we were having plain steamed broccoli, cauliflower and carrots as part of our dinner.  One piece of lightly steamed broccoli landed on the floor and Jake snatched it up and ate it.  Then he barked at DH, barked at food bowl.  We may be dim but got that message, so a small portion was finely minced and put in Jake's bowl.  He had already eaten his dinner, but what the heck, the veggies were not going to cause any problems for him.  Maybe he was actually craving them?  So the point is that sometimes even a steamer basket w/ your dog's meal in that over water in pot, lid on, and then mince it up w/ some of the flavored water under the steamer basket and call it dinner for a night or more.  Part of this depends on how picky your eater is!  Our Labs would honestly have eaten anything, cooked any way.  Jake is very, very picky.

If there is a march in D.C. to hand this petition in, I fear rioting in the streets.  It will be organized by none other than Jake because he finds the vacuum a grand source of entertainment and would not know any good substitute for pouncing at it (he's a dog, btw, but he sometimes plays like a young kitten) and chasing it and sometimes barking at the person pushing the vacuum cleaner to make it go faster and in fun zig-zags. 

Lookout, trouble is brewing!

You can use this as a slight variation on catbird's "Baked Tomato Pasta" or use when making pasta sauce for your favorite kind/shape of pasta.  Take broccoli and cauliflower and carrots, trimming stems off, puree these three veggies together and add to your favorite pasta sauce.  You'll add veggies and the sauce will overpower the veggies if you are trying to get more veggies into your kids.  I would not do this w/ adults unless you know them well enough to know they tolerate what you are adding! 

(edited because it occured to me that carrots are sometimes added as grated carrots to pasta sauce, so why not puree them as well if kids catch on that grated carrots are in the sauce instead of meat!  originally I had suggested only the first two vegetables for puree) obviously 1+1=2 but 1+1+1=3 veggies, lol.)

Klondike, those roses are just gorgeous and nice shot of them, too.  Our little pink miniatures didn't like the heat or something.  Sad summer for them this last month or so.  We were in triple digits here for three days running.  Once I got brave enough to look at our thermometer in the shade.  It was 110.  Honestly, when I put my hand to windows I felt as if I could cook eggs on the glass.  Now we're due thunderstorms and almost fall like air, going to be in 70's next three days or so.  We need rain so badly, and I think we just may get enough to help the brown grass, wilted trees.

Hi and welcome to Itchmo Forums!  Many of us home cook.  I also use a commercial kibble, two varieties of the same brand and rotate those.  Some of my dog's meals are 100% home cooked.  For those I use supplements from Monica Segal and got the basics from her books as far as ingredients and percentqages.
http://www.monicasegal.com/
My dog was allergic to grains in commercial foods, or so it seemed.  However, he is not allergic to the grains we buy for ourselves and use in his food.  He gets both white and brown rice, barley, oats.  Sometimes it is potato or sweet potato in his recipe.  Like people, diets are not a "one size fits all."  His food is ground up, frequently just in something one would use for a baby transitioning to some normal table food.  Normal table food for us isn't fried, greasy, highly seasoned.  We just use herbs to add interest to mostly steamed things.  I reserve the liquid under our steamer baskets to use when making a crock pot full of a dog recipe that will go into washed, small yogurt cups for freezing individual meal portions.  We add the supplements at feeding time and not in the recipe.  As much as possible we purchase locally grown food and enjoy a large variety of vegetables and fruits.  Don't use onion when cooking for your dog.  We don't add garlic, either, although I note that many dog treats list garlic on their label.  We save the bones from our free range chickens (purchased, not from home, unfortunately) and use those to make our own broth as a base for home cooking the dog's food.  The water from under those steamer baskets I mentioned earlier is part of the liquid we boil the bones in.  Fat is skimmed off after the bones are cooked and liquid stored in fridge so fat has risen to top.

Start off with one simple meal without many ingredients and then build from there.  You will discover likes and dislikes as you go along.  Read a number of good books.  You'll feel overwhelmed at first and the more you read the more you might be discouraged, but remember every single meal does not need to be exactly balanced.  The nutrients can balance out over days and in some cases over a month.  Depends on which vitamin or mineral as far as how often and how much the dog needs based on weight.  Some people actually get into spread sheets for each meal or recipe, and that is more than I have ventured into!  I feed a quality kibble and basically if just adding a bit of our steamed chicken or turkey or salmon from the grill, along w/ ground green beans, squash, zuchinni or whatever veggies and rice or potato, throw in some apple (also ground w/ the rest of the table food) as just part of his dinner I don't worry that it is becoming "unbalanced."  I'll add some wild salmon oil, some vitamin E and call it good.  So does Jake!  This isn't scientific by any means, I'm just saying it works for us.  It gives me confidence that if push came to shove, we could completely supply good meals that were totally home cooked if necessary by using our crock pot dog dinner recipes.

Happy cooking and no...you're not nuts!

It is so easy to miss giardia when testing.  The sample needs to be fresh and tested while fresh.  Looking for giardia is done by a different method than just routine stool check.  Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.  This used to be the case but perhaps all vet clinics do more thorough screening now?  Giardia can be resistant to treatment, or a dog can be cured and then easily get reinfected.  Standing water is a big problem.  All food and water bowls need to be routinely sterilized w/ chlorine bleach. 

Of course, the problem may now have nothing to do w/ giardia.  Even supplements can cause nausea and unwillingness to eat, especially if the digestive tract is sore from antibiotics and also lacking proper digestive bacteria.  I vote for one of the big veterinary hospitals close to you.  Even some IV fluids and feeding might help improve her situation until the cause is pinpointed.

We have vet techs here and other people with good backgrounds for this topic.  I'm out of ideas and wondering if trying some human baby food might perk the appetite?  Right now I'd be more concerned about getting her interested in a little bit of something that had appeal rather than worrying over a balanced diet.  Scrambled eggs w/ cheese?  Turkey, chicken, or beef off the grill in tiny, very tiny little pieces?  White rice cooked in home made chicken broth with a little fresh parsley, grated carrot and finely chopped celery for flavor?

At least some pet food companies read parts of these boards, especially the threads pertaining to their particular product/s.  This is a good thing.  I wish they all had at least one person assigned to monitor Itchmo Forums.  With that thought in mind, let's not put ourselves in a bad light to the PFI (or to new members, either, for that matter) but rather see if we can stay completely on topic, current, stick to the facts and nothing more.  If we want to continue the kind of back and forth we're getting into now, could we please do that on a separate thread w/ slightly different wording/slant to topic?  Keep this one for information only.  List
Exactly which type of Orijen (dog/cat/adult/sixfish/whatever)
Lot#
BB Date
When purchased and what city/state/country
When the bag was opened and also when it was discovered there were bones in the kibble.

If possible, also a picture of the kibble and perhaps a photo of the bag showing the lot# and BB date. 

As a side note, and in addition, it may help us track problems to post on this thread what was started some pages back where a few of us listed
BB date, Lot#, our location, and stated that to us as only a personal observation this/these particular bag/s seemed to be fine according to what we could see w/ the naked eye, could feel, could smell.  Please do note that in posting this it does not mean we dispute earlier reports  that there were some lot numbers with bones. 

We're here to help one another.  We're here to do the best for our dogs and cats as we know how to do.  We would not have gotten as far as we have without these boards.  I know I've learned so much already and have a long way yet to go.

We feed Orijen Adult rotated w/ Orijen Six Fish.  Just one small dog.  Feeding Orijen kibble about a year now.  No bones seen or felt by hand so far.  Last bag finished:

Orijen Six Fish (medium sized bag) BB 17 July 09, Lot# 82947 -2104081559   (no bones, careful visual inspection of outside of ea 1/2 to 3/4 C serving)  Purchased in Portland, Oregon, USA.
We're totally out of food in that bag now but retrieved it from our recycle that goes out tonight.  Unfortunately, and probably for first time since the beginning of reported food problems in early 2007, DH inadvertently cut info off top of bag of Orijen Adult (medium sized bag) and that is the only one now open.  Naturally, that is where the necessary numbers would be.  We have an unopened bag of Orijen Six Fish (medium) that is not due to be opened yet.

I really appreciate the initial heads up on bones found in the kibble months ago.  Now it is time to identify lot numbers and BB dates on any bags that have caused problems since then. 

Hurray!  Chia/GirlyGirl is a beauty and now I'll be looking for more shots of her on other threads.  I knew you'd be able to post photos!

Getting back to topic at hand, which is "bones found in Orijen," so far we've been quite happy to find none.  We do inspect Jake's food w/ greater care almost than our own.  Orijen uses fresh fish, not frozen.  They grind it up and the bones are soft in fresh fish so they don't grind as easily as if frozen, nor are they as soft as, for instance, what you see in canned salmon. 

I can understand how soft little bone pieces then could become hard during the final process in making the food, when it is cooked and becomes kibble.  Clark says their new screening method is working.  He has had no reports of any problems since the occasion of the bags in certain lot numbbers before they changed their screening process.

So...please, for anyone who experiences otherwise, do call the phone number on the Orijen site.  Take photos.  Report back here, too.  Meanwhile, we continue to do a good visual inspection on Jake's food and run each day's food thru our hands as it goes into his bowl.  Takes little time and I'm convinced that this step is important no matter what brand you feed.  We also give it a "sniff test," although Jake's nose is far better than ours.

I was happy to have easily gotten thru to Clark at Orijen.  It was a positive experience.

Shibadiva, thanks for the link.  Zea mays is used to treat kidney stones, bladder infections, and high blood pressure (because it is a mild diuretic, I think.)  AAR, the zea mays is, as you already said, corn silk and not corn.  It does not contain the corn proten and those allergic to corn are not allergic to corn silk.  In the case of Orijen, zea mays does belong in the "botanicals" ingredient list.  The kibbble I'm feeding is grain free.

I called the phone number on the Orijen website.  The person answerring the phone asked "the nature of my call" or "what is this call regarding," and then I was put right thru to Clark.  We talked about the zea mays.  He told me the same thing I had just read on links from alekO and shibadiva, confirming why it is in Orijen and why it is a botanical and not corn itself.  So...I was completely satisfied. 

alecO, I would like to see fewer ingredients myself, but it is hard to argue w/ success.  Jake has been on this food for approximately a year now.  He loves it.  His blood work is excellent.  The vet, the groomer, other "dog" people rave about his coat.  We also home cook and think that variety is a good thing.  Jake went from miserable, itching, dry coat falling out in clumps to a very healthy coat and most important comfortable dog w/ no itching.  Even here in August it is hard to get thru all his hair to even find his skin.  The coat glistens in sunlight and bright artificial light as well.  It looks as if there must be some expensive salon product on it.  There is none.  He just gets shampoo and plain water rinse.