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petslave
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« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2008, 11:00:41 AM » |
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Since each state has a different ruling on CA in pet food, how would the PF companies work with that if they were adding CA? Would they manufacture foods with CA for the states that allow it, then make specialty batches without CA for states that don't allow?
Even if CA isn't toxic, I don't want it in my pets' food. I want a food made of human grade food ingredients and good quality human grade supplements. Nothing else. Obviously that's too much to ask since it doesn't allow the PF companies to make huge profits.
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Carol
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« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2008, 01:04:05 PM » |
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"Even now, research continues into the properties and health effects of the adulterants responsible for the calamity."
translation...you're on your own folks as we have no idea what is happening, may happen, or happened to your pets and you , nor are we looking into it...of course this is my translation...but we at itchmo are trying to start to change that...
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“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” — Margaret Mead
United we stand Divided we fall....
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JustMe
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I'm living the dream....Herding Cats!
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« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2008, 01:32:52 PM » |
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Wonder how pool water companies dispose of chlorinated, chemical-laden water they take out of backyard swimming pools. I'd like to follow them and see what they do with it.
God, I'm glad I have my own well water (even though we occasionally get a little E. coli in it)
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Katie
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« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2008, 02:18:35 PM » |
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Don, "Bombay beggar" that describes my older dog who died in late 2006. She loss 10% of her body weight, no matter how much commercial food she was given, the only change was bigger poop. She was being starved, and the vet couldn't figure out why... needless to say I have my hunches.
29 years!
Offy, the urinary pH is still bothering me. Reasons; if CA or Melamine or any other NPN is being ingested along with a variety of chemicals (vitamins, minerals, etc) we don't know what unknown chemicals are being formed in the body and when those chemicals are ready to be expelled, what is the animals urinary pH at the time. And, it's true if they keep eating the same food for months and years.....
%Protein; I wish the law would change on this. I wish the PFC and human food companies would have to list exactly what those %'s are derived from and listed on the bags,cans and boxes. I would love to see % Total Protein consisting of: x% meat, x% plant protein, etc. Makes me nuts that all these years I trusted a bag that said 26% protein was "real meat protein"!
JustMe; here in Arizona, they let it run down the street, they don't haul it away. In CT we had a small spa, that was drained into the backyard - required by the town. I've only seen pool water companies deliver water (back in CT), and the "joke" used to be where they brought it from was going to require the homeowners to use a lot of chlorine. In AZ they fill the pools with tap water.
Katie
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Offly_irked
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« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2008, 03:32:56 PM » |
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Don - Re: the labeling myths: http://itchmoforums.com/making-a-difference/upc-lables-covered-up-t1797.0.html;msg23105#msg23105June 2007 ACVIM meeting in Seattle,WashingtonThe first part of this question is “Is it correct that pet food manufacturers can
substitute ingredients for up to six months without an ingredient label change, as
long as the nutritional content is unchanged?”
Dr. Claudia Kirk: The simple answer is no. That's actually not approved. Whatever is in the product is supposed to be accurately labeled on the ingredient list, and the ingredient list has very specific guidelines for how that ingredient list must read.
For those who have never seen an AAFCO manual, I brought one of my older copies. Here's what it looks like. (Indicating.) That's the pet food Bible in terms of giving instructions of how a label needs to be formatted and what needs to be included on it.
The confusion with this particular statement that does get passed around quite a bit is that within the industry, there has been a little bit of leeway that has seemed to be overlooked. It depends upon the state, because it's really the state USDA that regulates pet food products even though the guidelines are provided by AAFCO and the FDA.
If you are changing a formula and still have old packaging, and haven't quite gotten your new labels, you might go ahead and put a product that is changing to some extent in the old bags – so there could be potentially a short period of time that a product has changed but the labels have not caught up. That's actually not legal, but it certainly has been done.
But the idea that you can willy-nilly change your formulas and not reflect that on your label is not correct. And as Dr. Dzanis, who is in the audience, also made note, if a manufacturer has changed their product and has not quite gotten their new labels back yet, that does take a bit of time, they are supposed to sticker the bag to indicate such.
So that's a bit of a misunderstanding and misperception about what is legal in pet food labeling"... |
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« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 03:35:13 PM by Offy »
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JustMe
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I'm living the dream....Herding Cats!
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« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2008, 04:25:37 PM » |
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JustMe; here in Arizona, they let it run down the street, they don't haul it away. In CT we had a small spa, that was drained into the backyard - required by the town. I've only seen pool water companies deliver water (back in CT), and the "joke" used to be where they brought it from was going to require the homeowners to use a lot of chlorine. In AZ they fill the pools with tap water.
I don't have a pool. The thought of all the chemicals freaks me out. I guess they are a necessity in the southwest though. Fill a pool with tap water? That must take a lot of tap water. Yikes! If you are on a well, you'd drain your well dry filling a pool. Everybody here that I know have water delivered. I have seen the pool trucks with hoses going into a river and also into a lake. Didn't know if they were taking in water or draining out water.  |
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catbird
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« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2008, 06:10:21 PM » |
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Around here, I have seen them do the same with pools as in AZ--fill 'em up with garden hoses (unless they are really big ones), and drain 'em down the gutters. Of course, then all that chemical-laden water ends up in our lakes.  I don't know if the draining is legal that way, but that is what they do. |
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If 3 of your cats were torties, you'd be crazy too.
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PFR07PS
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« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2008, 07:28:33 PM » |
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If you are changing a formula and still have old packaging, and haven't quite gotten your new labels, you might go ahead and put a product that is changing to some extent in the old bags – so there could be potentially a short period of time that a product has changed but the labels have not caught up. That's actually not legal, but it certainly has been done.
Not so in the human food industry - if you make a product change, you make a label/packaging change and you do not release the new product into the market until new, updated packaging is in production facilities ready to use. I’ve seen the release of new products held up when packaging was not ready. Something just doesn’t seem right about this concept. If a company who produces a food product is handling their business in a responsible, ethical, healthy manner, they would have the updated packaging when they are ready to release the product. To place a product in the market, without correct package and labeling gives the appearance of questionable, unsafe business practices. Also, I was told it can take up to 6 months for pet food packaging to be updated for something like formula changes. The comment was they are allowed to use up existing inventory of packaging.
...if a manufacturer has changed their product and has not quite gotten their new labels back yet, that does take a bit of time, they are supposed to sticker the bag to indicate such.
So, if a PF Company changes their formula and they are ready to manufacture and distribute in the marketplace for sale to consumers before their new packaging is ready -- then where do the feed trials come in? That statement would give the appearance the PF companies are changing formulas and distributing for sale prior to sufficient testing in-house to see if there are any problems. It would also back-up some of the theories discussed here that our pets have been used for feeding trials, and with catastrophic results. DonnaC |
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5CatMom
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« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2008, 05:02:27 AM » |
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Just a guess, but maybe they trot out a "substantially equivalent" argument that is based on their "scientific judgement" and avoid the need for food trials, or other testing.
IMHO, although there are rules and regs for PF companies, I doubt that many of them are followed. If they were, we wouldn't see problems such as those that occured with Evanger's and Diamond.
I'm not a huge fan of regulation, but laws don't mean anything when compliance is voluntary.
Prudent regulation, stiff fines, and jail time are badly needed.
5CatMom
=^..^=
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 12:53:49 PM by 5CatMom »
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"What is man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected." Chief Seattle
"We are the caretakers of our creatures . . . the peacekeepers of our planet"
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Katie
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« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2008, 12:50:28 PM » |
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JustMe;
We don't have a pool either; didn't want the chemicals,upkeep or the animals it draws in! It never makes sense to me that an area that has limited water, major drought, etc.; allows people to fill swiming pools with water from the faucet.
The swiming pools get very little use (neighbors have them) never hear them being used. Either it is to Hot, or to Cold; would have to swim at 6AM. They need to be kept running so the water doesn't stagnate and become a source of West Nile. However our retriever probably has it on her wish list...
Katie
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Katie
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« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2008, 01:08:12 PM » |
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Re: human food labels
Having known someone who worked in the food industry; ex. mixed processed cheese product: the amount of swiss, cheddar etc. could change depending upon leftover cuts and trims but would not require a new label - as long as the label stated the major ingredients, the % changes of ingredients could differ. A new label would only be required for a brand new product or a brand new ingredient in a product.
Re: pet food labels
When calling pet food companies about formulation changes, I believe they always said new product could be in an old bag - they had x time to use up the old bags.
Maybe pet food companies are trying out new formulaes in food trials so that quick changes can be made, would go along with what 5CatMom said: substantially equivalent or scientific judgement. Wasn't that something that came up during the pet food recall, we found out some bags contained products in allergy formulaes that shouldn't have been there?
Katie
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yl
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« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2008, 02:31:04 PM » |
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If a pet food is labeled that it contains lamb meal and the pet food company purchased the lamb meal from another source . Would the pet food company need to state on their label what the company where they purchased the lamb meal stated on their label?
Also could the chemicals used in rendering be come a poisonous cocktail when mixed with cyanuric acid?
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Don Earl
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« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2008, 03:34:30 PM » |
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Also could the chemicals used in rendering be come a poisonous cocktail when mixed with cyanuric acid?
As far as I know, rendering doesn't involve the use of chemicals. Basically they just cook everything up, scrape the grease off the top, then press the moisture out of whatever is left. I haven't been able to pin it down 100% from a definitive source, but odds and ends I've run across seem to indicate that substances high in nitrogen increase the toxicity of other substances. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of research on it, though. There was a patent I ran across that claimed adding melamine to everything from herbicides to rat poison increased the toxicity, but patent claims aren't necessarily reliable. Another item I found seemed to indicate the presence of nitrogen affected the toxicity of acetaminophen, but the references were somewhat circumspect. IMO, there isn't enough to make the claim with confidence, but there are bits and pieces that would support doing more research on the possibility. |
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yl
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« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2008, 04:54:37 PM » |
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Gee Don I guess I was including the denaturing process and chemicals already in the dead animals. One chemical I found is Birkolene b.
Also remember Ann Martin's book. Aren't chemicals added to this cooked mess of dead animals to make it palatable. I am not an expert just a concerned pet owner!!!
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PFR07PS
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« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2008, 06:41:30 PM » |
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Gee Don I guess I was including the denaturing process and chemicals already in the dead animals. One chemical I found is Birkolene b.
Also remember Ann Martin's book. Aren't chemicals added to this cooked mess of dead animals to make it palatable. I am not an expert just a concerned pet owner!!!
YL, I think you're correct. I remember reading this some time ago. This doesn't include the consideration of pharmaceuticals in dead animals. http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/information-from-recallsorgvet-site-including-melamine-related-t1417.0.html;msg18473#msg18473You are looking at rendered product, so you might want to consider part of the rendering process. Since you've been referring to Nebraska and Kansas, I started with Neb. Dept. of Ag. and found this in their "rendering and pet food section" for regulations. Interesting. http://www.agr.ne.gov/regulate/bai/tilf.htm009 Decharacterization. All inedible meat and carcass parts shall be adequately decharacterized with an approved agent except where federal meat inspection regulations allow shipment of inedibles to the contrary. The decharacterizing agent must be mixed intimately with all of the material to be decharacterized and must be applied in such quantity and manner that it cannot easily and readily be removed by washing or soaking. A sufficient amount of the appropriate agent shall be used to give the material a distinctive color, odor, or taste so that such material cannot be confused with an article of human food. All inedible meat or carcass parts four inches in diameter or larger shall be freely slashed or sectioned prior to the application of the approved decharacterization agent. 003.07 DECHARACTERIZATION shall mean the uniform application of sufficient quantities of dye, charcoal, malodorous fish oil, acid, or any other agent approved by the Bureau, upon and into freely slashed flesh of processed meat as to unequivocally preclude its use for human food. 003.08 APPROVED DECHARACTERIZATION AGENT shall mean a decharacterization agent approved for use as such by the Bureau of Animal Industry. |
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