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yl
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« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2008, 04:54:37 PM » |
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Gee Don I guess I was including the denaturing process and chemicals already in the dead animals. One chemical I found is Birkolene b.
Also remember Ann Martin's book. Aren't chemicals added to this cooked mess of dead animals to make it palatable. I am not an expert just a concerned pet owner!!!
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PFR07PS
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« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2008, 06:41:30 PM » |
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Gee Don I guess I was including the denaturing process and chemicals already in the dead animals. One chemical I found is Birkolene b.
Also remember Ann Martin's book. Aren't chemicals added to this cooked mess of dead animals to make it palatable. I am not an expert just a concerned pet owner!!!
YL, I think you're correct. I remember reading this some time ago. This doesn't include the consideration of pharmaceuticals in dead animals. http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/information-from-recallsorgvet-site-including-melamine-related-t1417.0.html;msg18473#msg18473You are looking at rendered product, so you might want to consider part of the rendering process. Since you've been referring to Nebraska and Kansas, I started with Neb. Dept. of Ag. and found this in their "rendering and pet food section" for regulations. Interesting. http://www.agr.ne.gov/regulate/bai/tilf.htm009 Decharacterization. All inedible meat and carcass parts shall be adequately decharacterized with an approved agent except where federal meat inspection regulations allow shipment of inedibles to the contrary. The decharacterizing agent must be mixed intimately with all of the material to be decharacterized and must be applied in such quantity and manner that it cannot easily and readily be removed by washing or soaking. A sufficient amount of the appropriate agent shall be used to give the material a distinctive color, odor, or taste so that such material cannot be confused with an article of human food. All inedible meat or carcass parts four inches in diameter or larger shall be freely slashed or sectioned prior to the application of the approved decharacterization agent. 003.07 DECHARACTERIZATION shall mean the uniform application of sufficient quantities of dye, charcoal, malodorous fish oil, acid, or any other agent approved by the Bureau, upon and into freely slashed flesh of processed meat as to unequivocally preclude its use for human food. 003.08 APPROVED DECHARACTERIZATION AGENT shall mean a decharacterization agent approved for use as such by the Bureau of Animal Industry. |
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5CatMom
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« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2008, 04:53:47 AM » |
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Last year, we learned that Darling International (rendering company Wichita, KS) obtained "leftovers" from Menu Foods (Emporia, KS).
Also, Hill's/Science Diet (Topeka, KS) sources ingredients from Darling.
Unfortunately, Menu's "leftovers" contained melamine and prompted a recall by Darling.
5CatMom
=^..^=
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"What is man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected." Chief Seattle
"We are the caretakers of our creatures . . . the peacekeepers of our planet"
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YesBiscuit!
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« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2008, 09:07:34 AM » |
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Not that ANY amount of CA is ok, but I'm wondering how much of it was detected in this test. The results say N/A.
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Good dog - Yes biscuit!
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Don Earl
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« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2008, 09:12:08 AM » |
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Gee Don I guess I was including the denaturing process and chemicals already in the dead animals. One chemical I found is Birkolene b.
Also remember Ann Martin's book. Aren't chemicals added to this cooked mess of dead animals to make it palatable. I am not an expert just a concerned pet owner!!!
I think there's some confusion on some of these items. Denaturing, by definition, precludes those products from being used as food. Keep in mind that not all rendered products are used for food - for example, items used for fertilizer and things along those lines. Flavor enhancers are added by the pet food companies, not the renderers. In theory, at least, all of those items should be GRAS (generally recognized as safe). I'm not saying there aren't a whole lot of places where adulterants end up in pet food, and I think there's good cause to be concerned about raw materials that are rendered, but the actual process doesn't involve much beyond simply cooking the raw materials. It's basically a refinement of what was used in the old days to make candles - cook the daylights out of everything, then scrape the tallow off the top. |
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Carol
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« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2008, 09:16:36 AM » |
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Not that ANY amount of CA is ok, but I'm wondering how much of it was detected in this test. The results say N/A.
quantitative testing is being done per Don...  |
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“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” — Margaret Mead
United we stand Divided we fall....
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Poco
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« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2008, 05:11:27 PM » |
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Gee Don I guess I was including the denaturing process and chemicals already in the dead animals. One chemical I found is Birkolene b.
Also remember Ann Martin's book. Aren't chemicals added to this cooked mess of dead animals to make it palatable. I am not an expert just a concerned pet owner!!!
I think there's some confusion on some of these items. Denaturing, by definition, precludes those products from being used as food. Keep in mind that not all rendered products are used for food - for example, items used for fertilizer and things along those lines. Flavor enhancers are added by the pet food companies, not the renderers. In theory, at least, all of those items should be GRAS (generally recognized as safe). I'm not saying there aren't a whole lot of places where adulterants end up in pet food, and I think there's good cause to be concerned about raw materials that are rendered, but the actual process doesn't involve much beyond simply cooking the raw materials. It's basically a refinement of what was used in the old days to make candles - cook the daylights out of everything, then scrape the tallow off the top. Don, I don't think the renderers add denaturing agents either, but I think it happens at the slaughterhouse or processing plants. (Maybe one and the same place.) http://www.fda.gov/ora/inspect_ref/iom/ChapterText/2_8.html#2.8.2That seems to read that the purpose is to divert tainted food from the human food supply, but not necessarily from the animal feed supply. This lists what is used in WA state to divert food from the human supply chain into the animal feed chain: http://agr.wa.gov/FoodAnimal/AnimalHealth/docs/Form3014.pdf |
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« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 05:15:49 PM by Klondike »
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"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." ----General Douglas MacArthur
"American GIs are not toy soldiers to be moved around on some global game board." ----General Colin Powell
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Don Earl
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« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2008, 10:43:56 PM » |
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RE: "Chemicals mentioned are carbolic acid, creosote, fuel oil, citronnella and kerosene." I think something is still being lost in translation. These denatured raw materials can't be used for food under any circumstances. Have you ever smelled kerosene? You would NEVER eat anything that smelled like that. No animal would eat anything that smelled like that. That's the reason these things are used for the purpose of denaturing. Once something has been soaked in it, it stinks so bad it can never be used for food. RE: "This lists what is used in WA state to divert food from the human supply chain into the animal feed chain" Some useful information on Washington State food laws: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=69.04 |
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Poco
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« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2008, 11:08:01 PM » |
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I think I see the confusion here. You are right that 'denaturing' refers to treatments for food that is to be destroyed and not part of the food chain at all. (At least in WA state it is that way. Hopefully everywhere.)
'Decharacterizing' agents are treatments that can end up in animal feed.
DECHARACTERIZING AGENT
Meats: FD&C #3 Green Dye Finely Powdered Charcoal
Berkoline “B” (Birko Chemical Corporation) Berkoline “G” (Birko Chemical Corporation)
Politol-S (Westvaco Chemical Division)
Poultry: Ultramarine Blue Dye FD&C #3 Green Dye
FD&C #2 Red Dye FD&C #3 Red Dye
FD&C #1 Blue Dye FD&C #2 Blue Dye
Condemned materials which may not be released for any purpose but to go to the rendering works, or other facilities, for final destruction
must be denatured as listed below:
DENATURING AGENT
Meat Carcasses: Crude Carbolic Acid Cresylic Disinfectant
FD&C #3 Green Dye with Citronella and Detergent
Poultry Carcasses: Crude Carbolic Acid Kerosene, Fuel Oil or Crankcase Oil
Phenolic Disinfectant
It's been awhile since I looked at all that, but even the decharacterizing agents were a turn-off to me.
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"Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear." ----General Douglas MacArthur
"American GIs are not toy soldiers to be moved around on some global game board." ----General Colin Powell
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yl
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« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2008, 03:46:07 PM » |
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So the web sites I posted are wrong? Ann Martin is wrong? People I am trying to help out . I still believe these agents are used in pet foods . Don has not presented anything to prove his theories.
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« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 08:12:08 PM by yl »
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lesliek
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« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2008, 05:30:28 PM » |
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While I believe the worst treatments are supposed to be reserved for non-food meats,I have no confidence that it ends up that way. We have all seen the junk that ends up in pf & human food. The food co's are not going to waste a dime or a speck of food no matter what saftey issues it may cause.
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"the world's most inept extortionist"
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JJ
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« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2008, 06:00:53 PM » |
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Have there been any tests done by any labs looking for denaturing agents in the food besides the other toxins that when combined destroy the kidneys? Just would like to know if any place did independent testing specifically looking for kerosene, carbolic acid, phenol, etc.
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'Life isn't about how to survive the storm,
But how to dance in the rain.'
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JustMe
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« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2008, 06:06:11 PM » |
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I hope denaturing agents would show up on the chemicals and unknown toxins scans.....  |
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I'm living the dream.
Pet food posts are solely observations on my pets' reactions to the foods I feed them, not recommendations.
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Sandi K
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« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2008, 06:12:32 PM » |
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It is my understanding and it might be incorrect, that the unknown toxin test isnt really "unknown" toxins. I thought it was a group of pre-set known toxins that they test for but maybe Don can add more to this or correct my understanding....?  |
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