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3catkidneyfailure
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« Reply #75 on: September 15, 2009, 10:58:10 AM » |
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Sandi, as you well know, I get lost converting to DM basis and understanding what these test results represent. But by multiplying
each phosphorus number by 1.25, (5/4ths), you sure can tell which foods were out of balance here. Other conversions on other
ingredients I suspect will have to be done by people better equipped to handle. But sodium, zinc, and calcium-potassium ratios here
look way off to me. I thought discussed many times there was about a 2 to 1 calcium-potassium ratio desirable for cat foods; none
of these foods seem to have that. And no where can I find information on sulfur. So what's it doing in there?
Operating under these assumptions:
"For cats, you should have 5 parts calcium for every 4 parts phosphorus. In the foregoing example, for cat food, the total calcium should equal 6250 milligrams (multiply phosphorus by 5/4ths). It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, but it should be fairly close. A margin of error within 10% of perfect should be acceptable."
Nutro Natural Choice Complete Care Indoor Adult (Lot# 070810)
15000 ug calcium
12000 ug phosphorous (1.25 x 12000=15000 +/-10 percent)
[5/4ths ratio]
15000 ug calcium
9800 ug potassium
sodium 4600 ug
sulfur 4500 ug
zinc 220
Diamond Naturals Active Cat Lamb and Rice (Lot# Sept 2010)
20000 ug calcium
13000 ug phosphorous (1.25 X 13000=16250 +/-10 percent [163]
therefore, calcium high
20000 ug calcium
4000 ug potassium
sodium 4500 ug
sulfur 8700 ug
zinc 150 ug
Taste of the Wild dry cat food (Lot# 02 May 10, 16.00RP)
16000 ug calcium
12000 ug phosphorous (1.25 X 12000=15000 +/-10 percent [150]
[5/4ths ratio within 10 percent]
16000 ug calcium
6600 ug potassium
sodium 3700
sulfur 6600
zinc 160
FF Tender Chicken and Liver Feast wet cat food (Lot#May2011912911 62L1178132"5")
5200 ug calcium
4600 ug phosphorous (1.25 X 4600=5750 +/-10 percent{58]
therefore, phosphorous high
5200 ug calcium
2400 ug potassium
sodium 1700 ug
sulfur 1300
zinc 61
Nutro Max Cat "California Chicken Supreme Dinner (Lot#Jun21090427C1)
3300 ug calcium
2100 ug phosphorous (1.25 X 2100=2625 +/-10 percent[26]
therefore, calcium high
3300 ug calcium
1800 ug potassium
sodium 5100 ug
sulfur 1400 ug
zinc 49
Edited to add: I'm thinking the calcium-potassium ratio on Taste of the Wild particularly odd
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« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 11:10:23 AM by 3catkidneyfailure »
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Offy
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« Reply #76 on: September 15, 2009, 11:02:22 AM » |
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Does anyone happen to know what form of chromium was found in the pet foods?
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"If the pet food does not perform in the consumer's hands, then all of the advertising on earth will not be persuasive." Dr. R. Glenn Brown. Canadian Veterinary Journal, Volume 35, in April of 1994
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bug
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« Reply #77 on: September 16, 2009, 07:15:17 AM » |
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3Cat, the optimum Ca:P (phosphorus) ratio is 1.2:1 for cats. I don't recall reading about a Ca:K ratio.
BTW, I have the nutrient breakdown for TOTW. It'll be interesting to see how far off they are with this batch.
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« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 07:27:41 AM by bug »
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Red and Bones, my baby boys, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
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3catkidneyfailure
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« Reply #78 on: September 16, 2009, 09:41:40 AM » |
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Hey, bug, think I'm getting test result happy maybe and thinking of some ratios on crf bloodwork.
But, anyway, was using Don Earl's PFPSA statement in multiiplying by 5/4ths Calcium and Phosphorous
Those of you more adept may want to convert apples to apples on the NRC and AAFCO standards
for sodium and explain that one to us at least. Might be able to do the same thing with zinc levels?
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« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 09:47:09 AM by 3catkidneyfailure »
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bug
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« Reply #79 on: September 16, 2009, 10:08:06 AM » |
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TOTW zinc levels from doc provided to me cited 148 mg/kg dry matter and the test results were 160 ug/g which is the same as mg/kg. So, more than the profile, but not waaay out of whack. I'd have to do math for the others and don't have time right this minute. Maybe later or if someone else has time, I can provide the comparisons.
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Red and Bones, my baby boys, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
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3catkidneyfailure
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« Reply #80 on: September 16, 2009, 12:45:26 PM » |
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What about being out of whack with 4.6 mg level of zinc recommendation of NRC 2006? See, that's where I lose it. Is that DM in both instances, on PFPSA test results and on the NRC recommendation? Or is it as-fed in either NRC or PFPSA test results? Or both? Or in
the document you got from TOTW? And, gee, bug, 4.6 mg/kg is way different than 148 or 160.
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« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 12:47:35 PM by 3catkidneyfailure »
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bug
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« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2009, 01:12:09 PM » |
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3Cat, the 4.6 mg zinc is a per/day recommendation for cats (the average, 9 lb cat). Not mg/kg. AAFCO zinc minimum is 75 mg/kg DM and 2000 mg/kg DM is the maximum amount.
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Red and Bones, my baby boys, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
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3catkidneyfailure
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« Reply #82 on: September 16, 2009, 02:47:17 PM » |
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Then those versed in apple-to-apple comparisons here could do those of us without the background a great favor
by making such comparisons on the September 15 PFPSA five tests. Don Earl can't do it all. That was kind of the point
of Sandi's original request I believe and the reason I posted, too.
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bug
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« Reply #83 on: September 17, 2009, 07:09:37 AM » |
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If I have some time this weekend, I'll go through it and do the conversions.
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Red and Bones, my baby boys, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
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3catkidneyfailure
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« Reply #84 on: September 17, 2009, 07:35:06 AM » |
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Thanks, bug. That would be great. If you could show the process, maybe some of us could figure out how to do it, too! Biggest problem is knowing when you have apples, dry matter, as fed, as a starting point suggestion, and in the NRC 2006 recommended levels and AAFCO chart we're all so familiar with. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2244&aid=657Thanks again. |
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« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 07:43:18 AM by 3catkidneyfailure »
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lesliek
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« Reply #85 on: October 09, 2009, 02:02:03 PM » |
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Don has some new results up today, http://www.pfpsa.org/news.html. More high zinc in Nutro cat food ! |
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"the world's most inept extortionist"
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Offy
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« Reply #86 on: October 09, 2009, 02:57:40 PM » |
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Barium results were interesting to say the least. From ATSDR 2006 report re barium: http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/epitox/consults/coxroad_barium.pdfBarium
Barium is a naturally occurring element that is relatively abundant in the earth's crust and is
found in most soils at concentrations ranging from about 15 to 3,500 mg/kg with mean values
ranging between 265 and 835 mg/kg [10]. Barium also is present in a wide variety of food items
including breads, peanut butter, cereals, pasta, fruits, vegetables, eggs, dairy products, and to a
lesser extent meats, poultry, and fish at levels from 0.01 mg/kg up to 3 mg/kg [10]. The highest
concentrations of barium in food have been noted in peanut butter and peanuts (2.9 mg/kg) and
Brazil nuts (3-4 mg/kg) [10]. It also is present in many public drinking water supplies at an
average level of 30 ug/L, but can be as high as 300 ug/L in some regions of the United Sates
[10].
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"If the pet food does not perform in the consumer's hands, then all of the advertising on earth will not be persuasive." Dr. R. Glenn Brown. Canadian Veterinary Journal, Volume 35, in April of 1994
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bug
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« Reply #87 on: October 09, 2009, 04:55:28 PM » |
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Oh, crud. I just got back to this thread and realized I said I'd do some calculations. By the end of the workday, I'm lucky if I remember where I live. Sorry everyone.
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Red and Bones, my baby boys, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
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