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Author Topic: can anyone help share expense of testing unopened bag of Canidae?  (Read 8979 times)
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3labs
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« on: September 07, 2007, 03:28:14 PM »

With the recent finding of acetamenophan in Canidae food at the ExerTox lab, I would like to get my samples tested.  Apparently this food was sent in a ziplock bag.  The company can validate the claims if it is sent in an unopened, sealed bag, which I have 2 of.  I called ExperTox to get the cost of the testing and was told it is $275 (up from $205) AND an additional $95 per toxin!  I also stopped using Canidae as soon as I found out about this, which was earlier this week.  I opened a new bag a little over a week ago and noticed all three of my dogs stools changed dramatically in color and smell.  I didn't think too much of it until I received an email about this.  If there is anyone out there that uses Canidae and would like to share the expense, please let me know.
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straybaby
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2007, 08:51:54 PM »

save the opened bag or several cups of it in the freezer. contact don earl (hopefully someone will post a link to his site) as he may help with testing. do not open the other bags! are they all the same lot? don't throw away the open bag or food. i just said save several cups incase you don't have room in your freezer for the bag, you will want to have some preserved safely. also, keep the bag of food away from the light in a cool dark place. maybe wait and see what happens with the other tests that they are working on.

as to what to feed your pets in the meantime, can you do home cooked for a bit?
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straybaby
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2007, 08:55:34 PM »

DB, i didn't see accusations, just concern.

3 labs, another thought, are you where there's excesive heat right now? it could be a bad bag from too much heat or sitting outside in the sun while waiting to be transfered to indoors along it's way to the store shelf. you still want to store some of the open in the freezer because it could just be a bad batch due to circumstance of weather/etc.
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3labs
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2007, 02:07:04 AM »

Dingbat,

That is true.  The tests are not conclusive yet.  According to the woman who sent in the samples, there were two different manufacturers, Canidae and California Natural.  The lab combined the samples as a composite.  When this was discovered, the lady had them run the two different foods separate.  The California Natural was ran separate and that came back fine.  The other sample was a composite of both Canidae All Life Stages and Canidae Lamb and Rice.  That is the alleged food that came back positive for acetamenophan.  Canidae is running additional tests and have asked the woman to send in more samples and her unopened bag.

Just the fact that the lab found acetamenophan in a sample is alarming.  I have stopped feeding Canidae until I find some definitive answers.
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dogmom 3
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2007, 08:03:18 AM »

db,

I agree, we need concrete answers to this.
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straybaby
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2007, 08:46:00 AM »

well she has unopened bags. so why not test for a conclusive answer? and she did notice something different with the new bag of food and her dogs.

at some point, testing may answer some big questions as to what really happened. and we do know what foods the breeder tested and which showed the positive. why else would she be working with Canidae for an answer? i say better safe than sorry, and that doesn't mean panic.  Wink
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straybaby
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2007, 09:12:37 AM »


I am somewhat confused here, what foods and which breeder are you speaking of??

db

the GSD breeder that had the food tested. in one of the forum posts, someone posted a link to a gsd forum. there a person posted that she got an email from the breeder of one of her dogs. and that was the person who had the food tested. i followed the kennel name of her dog and came up with the breeder ( i was curious   Grin  ). over on the blog, itchmo posted that they had heard from her and posted what she said to them  Smiley Cal Nat was clean, Canidae wasn't.
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straybaby
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2007, 09:26:08 AM »

it would not be unusual for it to be posted around. i see that all the time (i'm on several rescue lists, etc). if a breeder sent it out to her puppy buyers and then the puppy buyers posted to alert others, you would have multiple posts about a friend/breeder/someone i know said. i sent the link to itchmo and it was the same contact they had. as i said, they communicated with her and blogged about it. mary's post had no names that i recalled, but the gsd forum did, that's why i followed up on looking for the breeder.
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LoveMyLabs
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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2007, 10:06:50 AM »

Quote
someone posted a link to a gsd forum. there a person posted that she got an email from the breeder of one of her dogs. and that was the person who had the food tested.

Straybaby

I read that also and it looked suspiciously EXACTLY like the one posted here with the names changed. Exactly the same circumstances, mixed foods etc. That is why I am so suspicious of this, I found over 6 different posts on 6 different forums that looked almost exactly the same except for the names, and breeds of dogs. Now to me this just doesn't look right.

db

Oh no here we go again.

Lets see,

Similar to "other" incident
A Friend of a Friend
Ziplock bagged sample, no labels no nothing
Bogus Date Codes that were changed
Lab messed up and had to re-test
Lab results have rec'd dates that don't match up to thread start
BIG disclaimer on Lab Result regarding sample
Chain of Evidence out the door

Also, I hate to say this but it's not to hard to "re-seal" a bag of foods and make it look resealed. Simply re-sealing the bag with glue would do the trick. God forbid this, please!

I hate to theorize fraud but according to Business Week Magazine the pet food industry is a 40 billion market! Whose  to say all the player play fair?

From what I understand FDA, when conducting sample testing, goes straight to the manufacturer for samples.

If you think your food is tampered, DON"T FEED IT.  If you don't like brand X DON'T USE IT.  Save your time and money. 

Also just because something is detected doesn't mean its harmful.  Arsenic and other heavy metals are in our water supply and can be "detected" but at ppb, who cares!  Has anyone found out how much "detected" acetaminophen is considered "allowable" in pet food? I think if you go low enough you can find anything in everything and what IS ppb equivalent too, a needle in a galaxy??? Shoot at 6 degrees of separation or less we can connect all of us!

Sorry db but this one is hurting this forum.



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dingbat
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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2007, 10:27:54 AM »

Quote
Sorry db but this one is hurting this forum.

You are correct, we are all off topic including myself. Irregardless as to the validity of the tests, the original poster was looking for someone who was willing to share the cost of testing.

So let us all stay on topic, and I do apologize for leading us astray.

So is anyone willing to help 3labs with the cost of testing her dog food??

db
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I used to think that anyone doing anything weird was weird. I suddenly realized that anyone doing anything weird wasn't weird at all and it was the people saying they were weird that were weird.
kb
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« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2007, 10:51:54 AM »

I sent 3labs a message that I am willing to share the expense.  I have an opened bag and an unopened bag, but differnet dates than the one in question.  I'd rather test it again and try to find an answer than worry.  My dog seems fine but I'm not going to feed Canidae until there is more of an answer to base my final decision on. 
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kb
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2007, 11:34:46 AM »

There are also posts on page 10 and 11 of the test results closed thread of people willing to contribute.  They also mention Don may help.  What dates do we want to test?  My 40 lb closed bag is 8/22/07.  Anybody have a closed bag from 6/6 or 6/7?  I can go buy a closed 5 lb bag (cheaper to ship).
   
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3labs
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2007, 03:19:59 PM »

kb - I have not rec'd your email for some reason.  I am new to this site and am still trying to find my way around.  The Canidae brand that I have had a problem with is the Chicken and rice all stages formula.  I have an opened bag, which I will not even bother with because the lab can not validate that it is in fact the product that is sent in.  But, I have two unopened, sealed 33 lb bags.  All three bags have the same date - June 21 07- June 21 08.  These dates are just two weeks later than the ones that had been tested.
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yl
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2007, 03:26:23 PM »

If your pets are sick from feeding an open bag of food , why wouldn't you send a sample from an open bag? To go out buy a bag of food with the same number to send for test seems foolish . I thinkmost people are not going to alter a a product they send to alab. I think it is a chargeable offense to do such. Also if you send a bag you haven't fed your pets food from how are you going to know what was in the bag you were feeding that made them sick?

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3labs
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2007, 03:53:18 PM »

yl  - I am not going to go out and purchase additional bags with the same lot number.  My post states that I already have two unopened bags from the same lot.  The reason I want to send in the unopened bag is stated above.  The lab will NOT validate that it is in fact the food that is in question.  It could be any brand of food and they would have to take your word for it. All of my bags have the same dates, which means they came from the same production line.  The company needs SEALED bags to validate this claim.
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