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Author Topic: Orijen - Concerns About Ingredients  (Read 10672 times)
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5CatMom
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« on: August 15, 2009, 04:13:48 AM »

The FOIA documents were an eye-opener for me.  It's quite a revelation to learn that Champion was/is sourcing meal from a US rendering company.

This is very different from the following which appears in the Q&A's on their site:

The above info from Champion is quite different from the following which does appear on the Q&A page of their site:


Q | FRESH CHICKEN - Where are our chickens from? Are they free-run?
 
A | Our chicken ingredients come from the ALBERTA CHICKEN PRODUCERS and are made fresh from grain-fed Alberta chickens. Our fresh chicken is table grade and arrives FRESH – never frozen and without any preservatives – and is processed into ORIJEN the day it is received. Our chicken meals and fats are produced from human-grade chicken ingredients in Alberta, Canada.

http://www.championpetfoods.com/faq/

Edit:  Looks like Champion's site has been changed to the following:

Q | FRESH CHICKEN - Where are our chickens from? Are they free-run?

A | Our chicken ingredients come from the ALBERTA CHICKEN PRODUCERS and are made fresh from grain-fed Alberta chickens. Our fresh chicken is table grade and arrives FRESH – never frozen and without any preservatives – and is processed into ORIJEN the day it is received.

Please visit our FRESH REGIONAL INGREDIENTS page to learn more.  


Hopefully, Champion will also explain about the US chicken meal on their site.  Given all the pet food problems in the US, lack of regulations, lax enforcement of regulations, sloppy industry practices, the corporation/government cabal, and so forth, meals that are sourced from US rendering companies don't inspire confidence, IMO.   

It's the NEXT RECALL which concerns me.

http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B-LDrRDG112PZGYxNDgzYmItZDg1MC00OGQ5LTk4ODEtYjkzYjRhNjVmMTky&hl=en

5CM
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 08:35:07 AM by 5CatMom » Logged

What is man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected - - - Chief Seattle

We are the caretakers of our creatures . . . the peacekeepers of our planet
raggiesrule
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2009, 05:25:22 PM »

Interesting.

Where did you find the above link as I can find nothing about the use of US chicken meal on their websites.

The issues firstly with the BHA and BHT and now the chicken meal does make me wonder what else is going on with their ingredients and processing that they have yet to admit. And is that why the promised test results on the Australian irradiated food not been released - something else they do not want us all to know?

From the research that has been done on the feeding of irradiated foods to cats - the affected Australian cats should have gotten better and they clearly have not - cats are still partially paralysed and still dying (now of organ failure). I have to ask what else besides irradiation affected the Australian cats?

Jo
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 05:52:52 PM by raggiesrule » Logged
petslave
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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2009, 06:12:01 PM »

I wonder if they switched to US meal to get away from the BHT issue they were having with the Canadian meal.  There was mention of finding a source of human grade meal.
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raggiesrule
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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2009, 07:30:07 PM »

Well if that is in fact the case they must have been aware of the BHA & BHT issue prior to the testing of the irradiated pet food even though that was when it was acknowledged. I am saying this because they were already using US chicken meal in 2007 according to the documents in the FOI and if as you suggest the reason was to fix the BHA & BHT problem it did not work as there was BHA and BHT found in the tested food and acknowledged by Clark Stride on this forum under the orijen thread way back in Dec 2008.

Jo
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JJ
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2009, 08:37:43 PM »

Jo I do remember the mention of the BHA and BHT source that they were looking into to change the source to get rid of the BHA and BHT. So the chicken is from where exactly now?
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raggiesrule
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2009, 11:10:07 PM »

How would we know? communicating what is actually going on is not one of their strong points it would seem. They did not mention using US sourced chicken meal on their website though it was clearly in use from Aug 2007 to Nov 2008 at least - if they had I for one would not have purchased their product after what had happened in the US such a short time before.

Jo
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5CatMom
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2009, 04:22:07 AM »

Jo,

The info was emailed to me.  It's not on Champion's site - at least I couldn't find it.

The connection to US rendering companies is scary, IMO.  
 
Didn't pet food companies learn ANYTHING from the recalls of 2007/2008?

You ask a great question:  ". . . what else besides irradiation affected the Australian cats?"
 

5CM
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« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 04:25:25 AM by 5CatMom » Logged

What is man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected - - - Chief Seattle

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bug
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2009, 07:27:58 AM »

OK. At first, I was wondering why such an opposition to US chicken meal if it is USDA approved for humans. Now I think I get it. Are you guys figuring that because they were using it around the time of the Menu recalls, that it could have contained melamine/CA and that is what might have been affecting the cats? If so, how do you explain the millions of people using this food with no problems -- myself included from 2007-2008. Maybe I'm still not understanding. Wouldn't it be better to have the chicken meal provided by a US company rather than a Canadian one that has no inspections whatsoever?
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5CatMom
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2009, 03:02:24 PM »

Bug,

It would be better for Champion to make their own meal from those fine Alberta chickens.

The recall in 2007 was caused by "human grade" wheat flour, so I'm a bit of a skeptic when "human grade" ingredients are involved.

Also, it's hard to put "food safety" and "USDA/FDA" in the same sentence.

5CM
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What is man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected - - - Chief Seattle

We are the caretakers of our creatures . . . the peacekeepers of our planet
Sandi K
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2009, 03:08:18 PM »

If so, how do you explain the millions of people using this food with no problems

Do we know that there are actually millions using this food?  I thought I read somewhere somebody saying Orijen was a small company.... Undecided
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Mandycat
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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2009, 04:19:19 PM »

 I don't think that a petfood company CAN make their own chicken meal, or any other kind of meal.  I think it is a product that they have to obtain from a supplier whose business it is to make those meals.  I also think that there is a great misunderstanding about the role of rendering companies.  Yes, they do use lots of what many consider "garbage" to make products such as fuels, fertilizers, tallow, etc. that are used in other products.  They also make protein meals that are used in animal feed and petfood.  They do not use the "garbage" to make these.  They use chicken, or beef, or pork, or lamb, or turkey, or the by-products of these meats, to make those meals.  If you look at the Griffin Industries website on the page that they list the protein meals that they make, you will be able to see more information on them and their analysis.  You will also see that their meals are EU certified.  This is the company that Orijen supposedly was, or is, using.  This company custom makes meals for clients to their specifications.  What is the problem with this?  Many posters here were praising the EU regulations as being the goal for everyone in the petfood industry to follow.  If Champion determined that the meals made in Canada did not meet their standards, why would it be wrong for them to obtain it from a U.S. company that DID meet those standards?   Huh

     Actually, I think that some of the context of this discussion has gotten lost because it is actually spread over 2 other threads in addition to this one. 

      http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/in-the-public-interest-orijen-irradiation-t8862.15.html

      http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/problems-with-orijen-in-australia-t6985.990.html

 
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raggiesrule
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2009, 04:45:53 PM »

And if they are a "small company" how big are their production runs and were the batchs that came to Australia all that was in those production runs? I know the company has said that is not the case but they also originally said there was no BHA or BHT in their food and that ingredients were sourced regionally including their chicken meal when that is clearly not the case. And given they have still released none of their testing results I still have to wonder what they found. They originally claimed nothing was found and then it changed to "there were a few compounds discovered" (ref to pg 32 of the Orijen thread http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/problems-with-orijen-in-australia-t6985.465.html) after they were challenged about the nothing found. Which version of the "truth" do they wish us to believe - I suspect whichever one they think is most convenient at the time. What I asked for originally and still ask for is not their version of the truth but test results that can be validated by our vets as being accurate (through discussions with the relevant testing authorities) or better yet results of testing sent directly to our vets so our vets have the best chance of treating our cats adequately but that is clearly not going to happen and I continue to wonder why. Given the research that has already been done on irradiated food feed to cats, it would have been expected that they should have recovered spontaneously, over several months, once the irradiated food was removed from their diets and this is clearly not the case with the Orijen affected Australian cats. So I ask again what else is going on, what else was in that food that is still causing illness and death of our cats.

Jo
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5CatMom
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2009, 04:56:07 PM »

Mandycat,

LOL, I thought they could get a big, big kettle and a tank of propane, and have a chicken rendering party.

Nothing wrong with using ingredients that meet your specifications.  But if you're a pet food company, how do you determine if ingredients meet your specifications?

Do you simply trust your supplier (like Chemnutra trusted certificates of purity), or do you perform robust incoming QA testing?

Just curious, but have you asked Champion how they test their incoming ingredients?
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What is man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected - - - Chief Seattle

We are the caretakers of our creatures . . . the peacekeepers of our planet
bug
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RIP little angel Katey


« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2009, 05:07:03 PM »

If so, how do you explain the millions of people using this food with no problems

Do we know that there are actually millions using this food?  I thought I read somewhere somebody saying Orijen was a small company.... Undecided

I suppose I'm guessing that over the two years and major markets Orijen is available in all over the globe in all the flavours they offer and various package sizes (the very small trial bags are extremely popular here) for both cats and dogs, they would have sold millions of bags by now (I could be waaay off). According to their information, Orijen is produced in small batches. How small? Who knows. I don't even know what a large batch would be from a company like Purina, for instance, to be able to compare.

I'm also not sure why there is the notion that there are more detrimental compounds that were not disclosed and not a part of the irradiation process. No one knows exactly what would have happened to the food if it were irradiated because it cannot be compared to the diets of the test cats in the studies (links) that have been provided in the threads about this subject. Unless someone were to replicate the process exactly, with exactly the same ingredients, under the same conditions, one will never know whether or not there were compounds produced that were unique to that food, causing the extreme disease processes that these cats have suffered.

If that were the case, I think cats around the globe would be suffering the "extra" symptoms not delineated by the studies that have been performed using a specific food preparation that was purposely irradiated. We're not seeing that in North America, unless the symptoms are so common and attributable to other things that they routinely slip by veterinarians and caregivers (e.g. renal failure, liver failure, etc.).
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My little babies, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
Mandycat
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2009, 05:26:42 PM »

Mandycat,

LOL, I thought they could get a big, big kettle and a tank of propane, and have a chicken rendering party.

Nothing wrong with using ingredients that meet your specifications.  But if you're a pet food company, how do you determine if ingredients meet your specifications?

Do you simply trust your supplier (like Chemnutra trusted certificates of purity), or do you perform robust incoming QA testing?

Just curious, but have you asked Champion how they test their incoming ingredients?


     I would hope that a company has QA testing on the ingredients they get from their suppliers to be sure that they do meet their specifications.
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