Has anyone here used a break stick? Would you recommend them if you have?

My mixed breed (I think a pit mix) is wonderful,gentle and obedient with people. She is a hellcat with other dogs. I work very hard to keep her away from other dogs because of her reaction to them.

On leash, I can easily keep her away from other  dogs. I tell her No or Leave It and she doesn't even glance at them. We worked hard at this and it's paid off. I only allow her to be off-leash in my house or in enclosed areas where I can ensure she is not going to encounter another dog. (I have even told all my neighbors who have dogs that hey, if you see us coming, and I go the other way--there's a reason! She's dog aggressive.)

But things happen. My mom has dogs. Never less than six of them. We use crates, baby gates and kennels to keep my dog away from hers when we visit. Usually very successfully.  But things happen.

Today, everyone was crated or kenneled excepting Jessie, who was loose in the house. My mom let Angel out from her kennel into the fenced yard. Angel has a quirk that she likes to go back to her kennel through the main house.   My mom thought she could sneak herself  back into the house and keep Angel from following her with her knee. She knew Jessie was loose in the house. Well, Angel snuck under her knee into the house and Jessie immediately charged Angel and got her (we thought) by the throat. It turned out that at that point Jessie had grabbed her collar. (Angel was yelping to high heaven so we weren't sure of this until the aftermath.) My mom grabbed Angel, I grabbed Jessie, and nothing could make Jessie release. At some point Jessie tried for a better grip and got Angel's ear. I yelled to my mom that Jess had Angel's ear (afraid that Jess would not release it and we'd tear Angel's ear trying to separate them). I honestly couldn't tell you what finally made Jessie release for a split second(my commands, my mom's, twist of fate?), but that was enough for me to haul Jessie outside and let my mom attend to Angel. Poor Angel, she'd peed and pooped during the attack(in the house, no less). Luckily, she just had a minor cut on the inside of her ear for all her troubles. We spent about a half hour fawning over Angel. looking for injuries and disinfecting her ear and putting ointment on it and she seems to have forgotten the episode. Setters--they are lovers, not fighters. *sigh*

I am exhausted by these encounters. Physically, mentally, emotionally.  They only happen about once a year, but good Lord are they draining. Is my only option to either put her down or never let her leave my house? How can I be the only one who understands what Jessie can do and how she reacts to other dogs? She acts like a pit. She gives NO warning, she grabs hold, and she'd just about rather die than let go of that grip. I know it. People who know dogs know it(including my MOM!!). And still, I find myself in these situations, despite my best efforts. Why am I the only person on this earth (besides my wonderful pet sitter) who respects the threat she poses with other dogs??? Why do people continue to allow themselves to be seduced by her behavior with people? People who KNOW BETTER? It seems that I really can't take her with me when I travel. Because people LIE. They say they understand, give you lectures about your dog, and then take unnecessary and foolish risks anyway. 

Anyway, I am looking for a way to reliably stop these encounters more quickly, preferably without injury to either animal. Do break sticks actually work with pits? Anyone have any experience?

Thanks for your replies. We have been through a few behaviorists and trainers, with no improvement in off-leash situations. There has been some improvement in controlled situations. If a dog is trying to get Jess to play across a fence or gate, she will turn her head away, for example. Crazy as that sounds, at 5.5 years, this is an improvement. She just doesn't speak 'dog'.  She falters with their language. She's got human down pat. A raised eyebrow? She'll lay down. A play bow from a dog? She'll run if she can, turn her head across a barrier, and go in for the kill if that dog is associated with any human that she knows.

I've thought about the muzzle. Really, I have. But this is where I get stuck: If the dog is muzzled, who freaks out? Dogs? I doubt it. People? You betcha. And she is loving, gentle and obedient with people. I don't want to instill a distrust of people in her, as she currently trusts and adores people.

I know that I would react differently to a dog with a muzzle. Wouldn't we all? Heck, I react to people with Gentle Leaders and Haltis--not because I think there is necessarily an issue with the animal, but because I realize the owner hasn't trained the animal.

But you may be astute that I may need to muzzle her when I go to my mom's, or any other situation where I can't totally control the environment. She wears a Gentle Leader at vet visits because I can keep her from lunging at other dogs in the small waiting rooms (and vets tend to believe you when you say your dog is dog-aggressive).


The odd piece of the puzzle here is that random dogs--she couldn't care less. Dogs that she sees with me or anyone else that she considers to be part of her 'inner circle'---huge problem. To the point that she loved the vet, but was anxious around the vet tech. She had spent 20 minutes with the vet. But when the tech came in, she positioned herself between me, the vet, and the tech, and was anxious around the tech. Not aggressive, just anxious. Nervous. There is some sort of protectiveness at play here as well--which is a part of why she is so unhappy with my mom's dogs. She thinks of my mom as 'hers'. I've seen it happen with friends of mine who visit frequently as well. There's a weird protectiveness at play. Even as a pup, before she got dog aggressive, she would position herself between a dog who'd been in the yard for a bit and a newcomer.

A muzzle may be the safest way to go, yes. But will that evoke a chain reaction with humans we don't want? Has anyone else had to muzzle their dogs out of the house? What effects did you see?   

JJ-you make a great point. In addition to the known tendencies of my dog, there is no telling what we could encounter on any walk.

Methinks I need to start looking at muzzles...

I looked up break sticks because I had never heard of them.  Looks like a great tool if you have it handy when a fight breaks out.  I would definitely have one if I had a pit bull.  This site explains how to use one & the differences between pit bull fight tactics and other breeds - very interesting (note the sidebar about breaksticks & illegal dog fighting):

http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html


They recommend the basket muzzle vs. the nylon ones - I have looked at the nylon muzzles & they really don't leave any room for panting:

www.pbrc.net/misc/PBRC_handout.pdf

"It is a legal requirement to muzzle Bull-and-Terriers in many locations. Many argue that muzzling enhances the nega-tive image of these breeds. If you are concerned about such laws get active in the fight against them. Don’t worry-your muzzled dog can defend itself long enough for you to break up a fight,if one should occur. The best muzzles for the Bull-and-Terrier are the basket-type that enclose the front of the muzzle instead of the nylon tube that simply holds the mouth closed. On a hot day or after exercise, your dog needs to open its mouth wide to pant and cool off. The basket muzzle is most accommodating"

Hopefully you find a good muzzle that fits properly.  Don't worry about what people think when they see a dog with a muzzle.  That's their problem, not yours.

We use a muzzle on our 2-year-old GSD sometimes at the vet.  She doesn't mind it at all.

I had no idea what a break stick is.  I'd go with the muzzle rather than getting close to a dog's jaws with a stick.  If dogs are fighting, you don't want to get your hands anywhere near those jaws, no matter how well you know your dog.  I've read a few reports in the past that said GSDs, pits, and rotties could exert 320 psi with their jaws.   

Jessiesgirl I used a basket muzzle on my sheltie to break her of chewing up my apartment years ago. I tried everything under the sun that was recommended and nothing worked. I hated to have that muzzle on her 23 hrs a day but it worked and she learned to not chew things that didn't belong to her.

So the basket type is the best in my opinion as it allows them to drink water thru it and doesn't keep the jaw constantly shut. You may have to search online for one as I've not seen that type in a pet store in years or ask the pet store where you go about them.

I think you have to order the basket muzzles now.  I looked everywhere for one for a friends dog last year, but all they had were those cheap nylon things that are supposed to let them pant & drink, but only have a teeny hole in the end.

Wow! I've not checked in lately and I am really touched by how many of you responded so compassionately! 

I think you've all convinced me to get a muzzle! Really. It would alleviate so much stress and potential for harm. While I certainly fear for the safety of other dogs, I am more afraid that someone will try to protect their beloved pet and be bitten. And that can all go away with a muzzle.

Realistically, she'd need to wear it both on walks and at all times at my mom's. We've had a few human error situations where our signals got crossed about who was 'out' and who was behind a gate or in a crate and those rarely end without some drama.

Our specialty dog/cat/bird store owners on the corner are very much involved in pit rescue, so they might be a good resource for advice. If I can take the constant lecture about a raw diet. (Yes, I know many are very successful with it, but we aren't ready to go there just yet. )

I've lived with Jess in two states. One which has a one-bite rule--you basically get a free pass on the first bite, but the dog gets put down with the second.  Where I live now, you are liable no matter the circumstance, even if someone enters your property uninvited or announced. If a bite to a human results, bye-bye doggy.  I think that in my mom's state, although I haven't checked recently, the animal is quarantined unless you can immediately produce papers (yes, I travel with a copy of her records in my glovebox) and it's a one-bite state.

Thanks again for your sincere efforts to help, and for recognizing that I am really trying to keep a dog who is a wonderful companion but has limitations regarding her life outside our home. I didn't know what I was getting into when I adopted her. She didn't look pitty at all, even to the vet. When she hit about a year old, that's when I started to get the "that dog's got some pit in her" comments from people who knew dogs well. But I made a commitment to her, and I intend to honor it. I know what needs to be done to control her undesirable characteristics and I am trying to meet that challenge. I get into trouble when I have to trust other people to do the same. So you are all right--the best defense against the inevitable mistakes/unanticipated situations is a muzzle.

I forget who mentioned that they are nervous around pits. But that's not crazy. Like any powerful and/or fighting breed, ideally you would both know the breeder and the bloodline, as well as know that the dog-owner is very experienced. There is no way to know that when you see a pit coming at you on the street, or in a park, etc. So it's wise to be alert. Because when things happen with these dogs, they happen insanely quickly and with little to no warning. (the few folks who have seen Jessie go all Cujo have all kept repeating the same thing--But it happened out of nowhere! And she is SO FAST!!)

As I said, I'm no dog neophyte. I grew up with them, with a responsible breeder who bred for temperament as well as other characteristics that are ideal to her breed of choice. I know what 'most' dogs do when things are heating up. And I'm telling you, it's not going to happen with some pits. They have a history that demands different traits. Yes, you can train around that with a good bloodline and a solid trainer. But it's in there, as the breed standard traits are in any breed type. Hounds will track a scent until they drop, some of them no matter how well they know the recall. Terriers will chase small game. Setters will pay more attention to a bird than to you sometimes. Some retrieving breeds can't be kept from a lake or stream (or your morning shower). They are what they are.  The idea is not to outlaw any breed, but to be aware of their instinctive reactions, and that at any time, those reactions may override their training. It's just a lot less worrisome when your pug decides to follow his instincts then when your Rottie does.

Trudy, again, my heart goes out to you and yours. I understand the confusion and the pain of having our heretofore loyal, loving animal suddenly attack a family member(even though 4-legged) and become, before our eyes, someone you neither know nor understand. And the heart-wrenching decisions that often follow such an experience. To be honest, if I had children, I don't think I'd still have Jessie.  And if I had owned more than one dog, one of them would have had to go. Odd as it sounds, it would probably have been the victim, as that dog is more easily re-homed than a dog like Jess.    But Trudy, you continue to amaze me with your big heart.