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Author Topic: What's Killing Our Pets? Are There Toxins In Pet Food? Poor Nutrients?  (Read 31732 times)
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5CatMom
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« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2007, 03:43:40 PM »

yl,

Very good point.  My bad - The melamine SORT OF WENT AWAY.

I have noticed lately, though, that pet owners who've tested food samples aren't finding melamine.  But I could be wrong, maybe I missed one.

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« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 05:38:53 PM by 5CatMom » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2007, 03:53:36 PM »

I agree with everyone, this problem is pervasive.  Shibadiva did a good job of summarizing it.  But I do think a large scale change was made somewhere around Nov. of last year that translated into more than just that one problem with Chinese ingredients they kept spouting.  

A starting list:
 - melamine-tainted wheat gluten/rice protein/wheat flour from China & US  
 - amino acids with cyanuric acid from China
 - meat meal with melamine from the US - added NPN's afterwards, or in the meat itself from NPN's added to feed?  
 - acetaminophen - possible metabolite of pesticide or one of the other chemicals found?

Despite the low toxicity of melamine & cyanuric acid, combined they form the lethal crystals, so they could still be problematic.  All of these are also metabolites of other frequently used chemicals, including pesticides.  

Some of us have also looked at GMO's with genetically formed/controlled chemicals, trying to see if these could contribute to the toxin list we've seen the past half year.  And I wonder if some new product or process--GM, nanotech, amino acid production (or some waste product) was introduced that blew back on them in the testing stage.  Natural Balance was adding rice protein to GRAINLESS formulas to boost protein counts--this could be a large scale practice that we don't know about.

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straybaby
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« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2007, 04:12:59 PM »

I agree with everyone, this problem is pervasive.  Shibadiva did a good job of summarizing it.  But I do think a large scale change was made somewhere around Nov. of last year that translated into more than just that one problem with Chinese ingredients they kept spouting. 

A starting list:
 - melamine-tainted wheat gluten/rice protein/wheat flour from China & US 
 - amino acids with cyanuric acid from China
 - meat meal with melamine from the US - added NPN's afterwards, or in the meat itself from NPN's added to feed? 
 - acetaminophen - possible metabolite of pesticide or one of the other chemicals found?

Despite the low toxicity of melamine & cyanuric acid, combined they form the lethal crystals, so they could still be problematic.  All of these are also metabolites of other frequently used chemicals, including pesticides. 

Some of us have also looked at GMO's with genetically formed/controlled chemicals, trying to see if these could contribute to the toxin list we've seen the past half year.  And I wonder if some new product or process--GM, nanotech, amino acid production (or some waste product) was introduced that blew back on them in the testing stage.  Natural Balance was adding rice protein to GRAINLESS formulas to boost protein counts--this could be a large scale practice that we don't know about.



did you happen to look into vitamins made from GM corn? Vitamin E and i *think* C. those good ol' natural preservatives . . .
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Offy
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« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2007, 04:38:38 PM »

There are more suspects than the cyanuric acid & melamine combination that form crystals.

Here's two others that I located:

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/index.cfm?objectid=E87CBF0C-BDB5-82F8-FCC1A9003DFDA8DD

The induction of bladder stones (urolithiasis) using terephthalic acid, dimethyl terephthalate, and melamine is reviewed. The distribution and metabolisms of terephthalic acid, dimethyl terephthalate, and melamine in rats are discussed. The genotoxicities of terephthalic acid, dimethyl terephthalate, and melamine are considered. None of the compounds have been found to be mutagenic in bacterial or mammalian test systems. Experimental studies of urolithiasis induction by terephthalic acid, dimethyl terephthalate, and melamine in rats are summarized. Terephthalic acid, dimethyl terephthalate, and melamine produced calculi and transitional cell hyperplasia in the urinary bladders of rats after oral administration

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/98fr/102798a.txt

IN DOMESTIC MAMMALS, MOST COMMON FORM /OF CHRONIC SULFONAMIDE TOXICITY/ IS RENAL OBSTRUCTION DUE TO DEPOSITION OF SULFONAMIDE CRYSTALS... IT IS POSSIBLE IN CASE OF...SULFATHIAZOLE, IN WHICH SOLUBILITY IS GREATLY INCR IN ALKALINE URINE, TO PREVENT DEVELOPMENT OF CRYSTALLURIA...BY SIMULTANEOUS ALKALI THERAPY. [Clarke, E.G., and M. L. Clarke. Veterinary Toxicology. Baltimore, Maryland: The Williams and Wilkins Company, 1975., p. 170]**PEER REVIEWED**

Sorry for the caps, but that's how it was.

My general rule of thumb, if they've tested it, it's in something consumed, breathed or absorbed through contact and somebody somewhere is worried about it. What determines toxicity? That threw me. No cancer. Not toxic. But heck, it'll block your kidneys and you can die of renal failure. (simplistic sarcasm)

The information age has it all in front of us. A few years ago, we were blissfully ignorant unless it was newspaper or TV. Today, we can click and view Washington & our government in action. That I'm sure is to the displeasure of the industries we're looking at. Who would have ever dreamed you'd be reading 365 pages about the rendering industry?

PS> One thing that's driven me nuts is the NIH toxicology page - the right hand column. Have any of you noted anything unusual noted in the media around July 3rd with acids, proteins, sulfates..?

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JustMe
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« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2007, 05:12:16 PM »

I don't have time to follow all the threads anymore, but I was wondering, has anybody considered that something new is being put in pet foods now to counteract the effects of the bad stuff that may still be in food?  Something so that crystals won't form? 

I still feel there is a GMO connection/grains.  My dogs and cats have all been on 95% grain-free foods since April.  Nobody has had diarrhea, vomiting, or bile vomiting, except for an occasional hair ball in the cats.  This is amazing to me since I have one cat with inflammatory bowel disease his whole life.  He is 14.  No diarrhea since April. 

Also, I interchange my dog and cat foods with various brands that are grain-free with no bad reactions.  I haven't even been gradually introducing the foods.  Just switching, cold turkey.   This is unusual.  When they were on foods with grains, I had to gradual introduce new foods.
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« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2007, 05:17:27 PM »

On another post some one just mentioned white specks on the dry kibble. When I called one company and questioned what the specks were , I was told they are applying vitamins after baking the kibble.I wonder how dangerous putting our hands into the kibble can be . When we feed our pets we do come in contact with it. Do they dust these vitamins on , do they spray them on? Not only do we get this matter on our hands , but we risk inhaling it . I do not beleive it safe for our pets to eat.
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Nabiya
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« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2007, 05:33:26 PM »

On another post some one just mentioned white specks on the dry kibble. When I called one company and questioned what the specks were , I was told they are applying vitamins after baking the kibble.I wonder how dangerous putting our hands into the kibble can be . When we feed our pets we do come in contact with it. Do they dust these vitamins on , do they spray them on? Not only do we get this matter on our hands , but we risk inhaling it . I do not beleive it safe for our pets to eat.
If they are dusting or spraying the vitamins on, one has to wonder how do they get it to stick to the kibble.  Glutens?

Also, I believe someone at Itchmo posted that kibble manufacturers have admitted to spraying the kibble with taste enticers, but I never did see an explanation of what a taste enticer is. 
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dingbat
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« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2007, 05:52:27 PM »

Quote
Also, I believe someone at Itchmo posted that kibble manufacturers have admitted to spraying the kibble with taste enticers, but I never did see an explanation of what a taste enticer is.

Nabiya

My understanding is that the last process in manufacture is to spray the kibble with some type of edible oil to make it more palatable. That would also make the vitamin mix stick to it. That may be where the white specks are coming from since they are on the surface.

db
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yl
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« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2007, 06:36:39 PM »

I would question where are the fats from ? What kind of fats are they ? Are they from Darling Int? I I think the FDA/CVM web site list a chemical . I'll see if I can find it.
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Laurie
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« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2007, 07:14:10 PM »

   Most pet foods are sprayed with rendered or refined animal fats, restaurant grease or other oils considered unfit for human consumption. Animal fats are used for dog foods and fish oils for cat foods to make an otherwise bland food more tasty to the animal. The fats also act as a binding agent to which manufacturers may add other flavor enhancers. Also in this excerpt from  Ann Martins book "Foods Pets Die For" she explains that most vitamins are added as a premix, and if there is a mistake in the premix, it can throw off the entire balance of the food. The wrong calcium/magnesium levels can cause neuromuscular problems. When Ann Martin had pet foods tested for her court case, most of the minerals showed up in excess levels. This causes me to wonder whether the amounts of vitamins and minerals added to pet foods are closely monitored. I would guess excessive vitamins and minerals added to the food could cause some sort of toxicity also?  http://www.organic-foods-mom.com/pet-foods.html
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 07:35:54 PM by Laurie » Logged
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« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2007, 07:41:19 PM »

Way back when this all started I had a bag of Pur 1 sens systems tested. It had white crystals stuck to the food & loose in the bag. Of course I panicked, melamine is a white crystal.This was not  a normal amount; take out a scoop & it was 1/4 crystals. I had it tested at Expertox[thru Accutrace].It was Vit E. I did not pay for the test that would give exact amounts,but they told me it must have been accidently dumped on before cooking or before bagging & then exposed to high temps. Vit e is soft & clear. Expertox kept getting a reading of Vit e & when they checked their library of results it said vit e would turn white & crystalize due to high heat.So they exposed food grade vit e to high heat & sure enough it turned white & crystalized. Purina has had my sample since the middle of May & I have not heard back from them. Expertox ran the test multiple times & experimented with Vit E to be sure & I had their results in 8 days.Poor quality control or trying to make up for poor nutrition ?
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dingbat
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« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2007, 07:44:29 PM »

Quote
This causes me to wonder whether the amounts of vitamins and minerals added to pet foods are closely monitored.

Laurie

Considering the process involved, spraying oils and vitamins, I hardly think it could be monitored closely. I don't believe the food is tumbled to coat it, most probably sprayed and that really isn't that exact, probably the same for the vitamins, sprayed on. So the actual amount per bag would vary quite a bit, to my way of thinking.

db
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Laurie
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« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2007, 07:58:47 PM »

   db,  If the spraying of the fats and vitamin premix is not exact, and the amount per bag could vary, I would think it possible that some animals might be receiving an excessive amount of vitamins and or minerals that could be toxic to their systems.
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petslave
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« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2007, 08:05:11 PM »

Offy--do you have the link to the NIH tox page?  I'd like to see that.

The companies that make the flavor coatings are very secretive about what they use--try to find anything of substance in either of these websites:

http://www.afbinternational.com/
http://www.spf-diana.com/defaulten.asp


The patents reveal a little more detail:

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2006062519

"A palatability enhancing composition for extruded pet food containing at least one tripolyphosphate salt in an amount effective to enhance palatability and at least one ingredient selected from meat products, meat by-products, fish products, fish by-products, dairy products, dairy by-products, sources of microbial proteins, vegetable proteins, carbohydrates and amino acids. Methods for enhancing pet food palatability with the disclosed palatability enhancing compositions and extruded pet food compositions coated therewith are also disclosed."

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4731248-claims.html

"1. A process for the production of a palatability enhancing autolysate for pets comprising;

(a) forming a slurry comprising an edible filamentous fungal biomass obtained from filamentous fungi selected from the genuses consisting of Aspergillus and Rhizopus grown on a fermentation medium comprising soybean whey"

Others I read were cattle rumen & swine liver.  Iams uses chicken digest (my dogs are allergic to chicken).  I'm sure there are dozens more.
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dingbat
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« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2007, 08:08:15 PM »

Quote
If the spraying of the fats and vitamin premix is not exact, and the amount per bag could vary, I would think it possible that some animals might be receiving an excessive amount of vitamins and or minerals that could be toxic to their systems.

Laurie

That is what I would think. Like I said, I don't think they are using a tumbling process, I think the food would turn to powder, in tumbling you can add an exact amount of mix and evenly coat the product.

Spraying could conceivably vary to the point the some animals would be getting overdosed and some would be getting underdosed, vitamins and minerals. Consistency form bag to bag, how uniform is that.

Wish I had lots of money and time to do this scientifically. buy about 40 bags different production runs, and test each bag.

db
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