Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN page 8

shibadiva

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Posts: 1371

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #105 on: May 21, 2007, 04:58:14 PM »

Oh, PS, Orijen updated their FAQ page FWIW. Still not 100% comprehensive, but getting there. I haven't seen complete FAQ's on every possible subject on any other website either, although Wellness does a decent job.


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Danielle

Full Member

Posts: 108

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #106 on: May 21, 2007, 06:16:53 PM »

Hi Ken & Wilbur:
No, I haven't received any response re: the hypothyroidism question. Wednesday will be two weeks I've been waiting to hear back from their nutritionists.

As it is hard enough to get Clark to respond to our questions, I really feel this thread has gone way beyond "off topic". If he has to weed through pages of posts about the prices of cat food, etc. I fear the original intent of this thread will have been wasted. Please keep this thread for questions about Orijen foods.


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mleg2001

Newbie

Posts: 2

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #107 on: May 21, 2007, 07:02:04 PM »

Cynic your comment on watching the calories .................

Before I switched Sunny to EVO I was feeding Nutro Natural Choice Lite in order to lose weight and was feeding the same 1 1/2 cups servings
Crude Protein (minimum) 14.00%
Crude Fat (minimum) 6.00%
244 kcals/per cup

Sunny was gaining an average on 1 lb a month and ballooned to 96lbs the recommended diet amount for a 15lb dog, I went through all sorts of tests including, bloodwork x-arays and ultrasounds trying to find out why he was gaining weight including testing of thyroid low normal and a 3 month trial of thyroid supplements to see if it would help the weight gain, nadda

EVO is 42% protein 22 % fat 487 calories per cup, so on EVO he is consuming about double the calories yet he lost 12 pounds and is maintaining weight and has been holding for a few years now

So calories is not the only factor one has to look at, you have to consider how the body breaks down ingredients uses, a lot of studies have been done on high protein diets and show them to be more effective in weight loss than high grain diets, plus the reduce the risk of diabetes because the body breaks grains down into glucose(sugars) raising insulin levels. I am no nutritionalist but have been trying to understand why weight gain occured when I was feeding ridiculously low feeding portions, he looked and acted older while on the low calorie diet then he does twice as old and eating closer to a natural diet

By the way innova adult is Protein 24.0 % Fat 14.0 % Calories 557 Kcal/cup
it is much higher in calories than EVO 42% protein 22 % fat 487 calories per cup according to your formula if I read right EVO calories should be higher Naturapets used to have feeding guidelines on their site but since they changed it don't have that info on their site but the feeding amount for the Innova adult dry was higher than EVO despite the fact the innova is higher in calories, which still boils down to digestibility (how usuable the nutrients are)


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Wilbur

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Posts: 129

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #108 on: May 22, 2007, 06:37:39 AM »

Hello fellow pet lovers:
I was glad to see Orijen post to their FAQ web site.

I truely believe the burden is on us, "The pet lovers". We need to research and research more and compare notes like we do on this forum.

Then we are coming from an educated angle...This research and comparing notes among ourselves will give us a condensed educated basis of nutritional care for our pets..
Then we have to tweek it for our own special needs...

Like Danielle knows her buddy's Hypothyroidism is probably caused by a mixture of Canola oil and a food with an Iodine content of 5.5 mg/kg.... She has diagnosed and now can make educated decisions to help resolve the cause and fix it.... and we can help her with the education we all have been getting about pet nutrition the past few months.

Thats what it's all about..

I still like the Orijen adult dog food, but am feeding 1/2 the recommended amount and supplementing with Rice and other protein sources as Boiled Eggs and cooked chicken and cooked hamburger.
I will be ordering a few cases of the Evangers canned this week to help supplement as well. The Orijen seems to be of very high quality, I just have to get this Iodine thing in my head worked out!!!!

Orijen has an excellent Iron content ( not very high ),, some popular premium food kibble have 3 times the amount of Iron than does Orijen.
I read that , just as in humans, Iron can put a strain on the Cardiovascular system...

Of course, our trusted friend, the AAFCO, states the range for Iron content to be 80 mg/kg to 3000 mg/kg..... Isn't that helpful? Huh

?
Thats like saying your teenager is due home on a Friday nite sometime between midnight and 8 A.M. on Saturday....

I'm going to start a new thread entitled " Things you have learned with pet nutrition that may also help others".

I can't get all the words in the title, but you will know it when you see it......
Lets make a promise not to let another of our pets get sick!!!!!! And the ones that are a little in need of better health, lets help MEND!!!!
Thanks
Ken and Wilbur


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Danielle

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Posts: 108

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #109 on: May 22, 2007, 08:37:30 AM »

Clark,
If you are still checking this forum, I have a question regarding the FAQs on your website. It says that Orijen diets contain 5.0 to 7.5 mg/kg of iodine. Is this a variable range for all products, or does one product have lower iodine levels? I am specifically interested in the senior dog formula number.

Thanks!


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TKO1235

Newbie

Posts: 3

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #110 on: June 08, 2007, 09:51:20 PM »

Hi - I've been doing a lot of research on dog food lately (haven't we all!) and I thought I had found the answer in Orijen... however, when I received the bag today from out-of-state I discovered it contains ZEA MAYS. Doing research, Zea Mays is also know as SWEET CORN. It is high in sugar, high in protein (which may amount to the high protein level in Orijin that we are all assuming is Animal Protein) and is genetically altered. It has the same allergenic properties as regular field corn. Talk about marketing. I'm frustrated. I'm now back to considering EVO again. I've randomly feed Evo to my Golden a few times now, but not consistantly enough to see any potential digestive issues. I've also been trying the Timberwolf formulas and have been quite pleased with them and their customer service. I know others have had issues with their cs, but they were great when I called. (By the way I just sent an eMail to the Orijin US rep to see what their response is about the Zea Mays). If anyone else can shed a light on this too, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,
TKO1235
Huh


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shibadiva

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Posts: 1371

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #111 on: June 09, 2007, 04:57:38 AM »

TKO Zea mays is listed as a herbal supplement in Orijen, not as a grain. Corn silk can be brewed as a tea (and other preparations) for kidney health.


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TKO1235

Newbie

Posts: 3

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #112 on: June 09, 2007, 06:09:51 AM »

Thank you for this insite. I realize it's made in Canada... but do you know if Orijin meets the AAFCO nutitrition standards for the U.S.?


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shibadiva

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Posts: 1371

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #113 on: June 09, 2007, 01:29:29 PM »

TKO It does, and it meets the even more stringent standards of the EU.


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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~~ Gandhi

TKO1235

Newbie

Posts: 3

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #114 on: June 10, 2007, 10:43:54 PM »

Thank you!!! You have been a big help! I posted the same question on another forum and received a lot of replies telling me not to have a fit about it, complain, worry about corn/grain, etc. Not much positive to help shed light on the subject. Thanks again for your responses.
Cheesy

P.S. Needless to say, I've left the other forum.


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Wilbur

Full Member

Posts: 129

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #115 on: June 11, 2007, 07:34:08 AM »

Why do they now say that the Iodine content of Orijen is 5.0 mg/kg,
while all along they said it was 7.5 mg/kg...........

How did their food lose 1/3 of it's Iodine content Huh

On their web site they are finally listing the amounts of some nutrients as vitamins and minerals.!!!!!!!!!!
Why do they list their Vitamin A content as 40 IU/kg,,,,when the AAFCO range is 5,000 to 250,000 IU/kg..? Is their food severely lacking in Vitamin A or is this another listing inaccuracy Huh

??
Why do they list their Vitamin D amount as 1.9 IU/kg Huh

The AAFCO range is 500 to 5,000 IU/kg for Vitamin D...............

Ken and Wilbur


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karvskitties

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Speak for Me... I like life.

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #116 on: June 11, 2007, 04:46:16 PM »

Quote from: Wilbur on June 11, 2007, 07:34:08 AM

Why do they now say that the Iodine content of Orijen is 5.0 mg/kg,
while all along they said it was 7.5 mg/kg...........

How did their food lose 1/3 of it's Iodine content Huh

??
Why do they list their Vitamin D amount as 1.9 IU/kg Huh

The AAFCO range is 500 to 5,000 IU/kg for Vitamin D...............

Ken and Wilbur

Dunno - didn't look. Either they aren't quite sure what they are posting, they are not concerned about AAFCO, or their food is lacking (can't see how). Wish they had an 800 number for the US (or do they?)


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Karen V

http://futureinsightstoo.blogspot.com/

Proud Mom of 3 Kitties (and many, many more over the Rainbow).

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Posts: 5848

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #117 on: June 11, 2007, 06:50:43 PM »

They need to proof their stuff on both the food and on the labels. When they do not compare ingredient for ingredient wonder what's up with the food then? Are not all batches made the same?


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ANDYcat

Sr. Member

Posts: 157

Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #118 on: June 11, 2007, 07:03:55 PM »

Quote

Wish they had an 800 number for the US (or do they?)

On Sat. May 12, I sent an email to their general email address, part of which read

Quote

Oh, if you don't have an 800 number, now's the time.

If your products are as good as purported, NOW would be the time to be open/ forthright/clear and transparent with us!

On Sun. May 13 (Yep, Sunday...I was impressed!) I received this reply:

Quote

Hello (ANDYcat) – thanks very much for your email - we’ll check out the forums (we’re a week or so behind on our emails due to tremendous volumes…). Please write again if you have any specific questions of your own. Good idea for the 1-800 number, I think we’ll get cracking on that right away.

Today, the website still shows the original local Alberta number.

But, hey.......my cats still like it!!!!!!!!!!!


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Hero Member

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Re: Questions (Dog & Cat Food) for Clark at ORIJEN

« Reply #119 on: June 11, 2007, 07:49:47 PM »

I have sent a number of emails to Peter Muhlenfeld, owner of Orijen, and he has been extremely responsive in answering my questions.
I have sent a number of emails all with different questions, and I am pasting quotes from his replies to me with answers. Hopefully these answers are helpful to someone. I told him I have an FUS cat, a diabetic cat, and a CRF cat, along with all my other cats, so I was interested in some numbers, and also I wanted specifics about where his chickens came from, and what they were fed.
Here are some of his quotes. First the phos. content re: my crf cat.

Quote

The phosphorus content of ORIJEN Cat is 1.5%.

Regarding where his chicken comes from he wrote:

Quote

Hello again Barbara;

No ingredient comes from our plant; all ingredients are produced in other plants (we are after all, pet food producers). For example, our fresh chicken is produced at Lillydale or Mapleleaf foods here in Edmonton. They process the fresh chicken into an ingredient similar to the ground chicken in your supermarket, and ship to our factory for processing.

Chicken meal is the same ingredient as above, but has an extra processing step before arriving at our factory. The chicken meal plant takes the fresh chicken and cooks it to remove moisture. This cooked chicken (or chicken meal) then arrives at our factory for processing into pet food. The source of chicken is the same for both fresh chicken and chicken meal ingredients. Chicken meal is 100% chicken, and does not include feathers, heads or guts

I asked the carb content for my diabetic cat:

Quote

ORIJEN is perfect for diabetic cats with a carbohydrate content of 15%

.

I asked Peter what the chickens were fed, and he wrote he would check to find the answer and then wrote:

Quote

We have since contacted the Alberta Chicken Producers and confirm that there is no concern that Alberta chickens have been fed melamine contaminated chicken feed (chicken feed in Alberta is made in Alberta, not imported).

Regarding my FUS cat, Peter checked and wrote:

Quote

Hello again Barbara, we finally have the official results for the urine pH. ORIJEN Cat Food kibble pH is 5.0 and the resulting urine pH (after 24 hours, method reference AOAC-981.12) is 5.9. Sorry we took so long to get this information to you, but please write again if you have further requests and we promise to do better J

Kind Regards,
Peter
www.championpetfoods.com

I am feeding my cats Innova EVO, and because Peter has been so forthcoming to all my questions, I am feeding them Orijen dry cat food for variety. They get both every day.
They are enjoying both of these foods and everyone has been doing fine so far. I am feeding Fancy Feast flavors without wheat gluten, (recommended on the CRF and DIABETIC websites) because that is all they will eat so far, they will NOT EAT Evangers canned cat food. And it isn't very appetizing looking either.


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