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Author Topic: Problems with Orijen in Australia  (Read 345244 times)
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Pamela
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« Reply #450 on: December 23, 2008, 07:53:07 PM »

4.   In the study at MSU done on our foods, there were a few compounds discovered. The summary from the veterinary toxicologist at MSU was that they did not find any chemical compounds that are known to cause neurotoxicity. That said, the compounds appear to be preservative in nature. The relevance of these compounds is not known, other than they are not known to cause neurotoxicity. The preservative compounds found were BHA and BHT (a common food antioxidant). The MSU test does not quantify the amount of these compounds present, so we have done further tests to determine the quantity of BHA and BHT in the food. We have determined there are some trace amounts of each of these two compounds in the food. Champion Petfoods does not add BHA and BHT to the food, but we have traced the presence of these antioxidants to one of our ingredients. We are addressing the presence of this antioxidant in our ingredient and ensuring that our ingredient channels are free of synthetic antioxidant. Although BHA and BHT are approved for use in pet food, we do not use them as antioxidants in our foods. The levels found in the food from Australia were minimal and are far less than the approved maximum level for pet food. We are continuing to investigate the compounds found in the food and serum samples sent to MSU; however, both the Veterinary Toxicologist at MSU and our consulting Veterinary Toxicologist have not identified any of these compounds as having a known toxicity.

Hi Clark, Nice to speak with you again Smiley

Thank you for making yourself available to the consumers and all these poor people who have once again lost their beloved babies!

I have always thought Orijen to be a company who has thier Finger on the pulse of their food production, which was relayed to me by Peter,  on more than several occasions and I became comfortable with the products, considering I am far from a commercial pet food lover, as those who know me are well aware.  I have always given your company a higher rating then many others when asked about the better pet foods. But all this has rattled me from that..........  Hopefully you might be able to restore that confidence somewhere down the road.......  I expect certain things will happen, but I always watch the *performance* of the company !  That tells me a lot.  That said:

I have a few rather straight forward questions for you regarding the BHA and BHT.

I, personally, happened to be in a Hampton Roads Pet Store recently, while the owner/manager was on the phone talking to you. I over heard most all of the conversation and questions that person asked you and their response to your response and of course I asked questions after you all hung up the phone!  They were visibly not happy at some of the the response from your end of the phone, and nor was I.

Please do clarify where this needs clarification. Thank you........

1.- It is my understanding that it is/was a *dried* chicken *product* that contains the preservative, of which your company had no knowledge was there prior to this situation? Not sure of the dried part, but I thought that is what I heard?Huh

2.- You confirmed that the food that contains this substance is in ALL the chicken *product* made by your company, and then shipped and/or trucked out to the US and to AU?  You also confirmed that it is on the US shelves as we speak, including that particular store, and you do not expect the BHA and BHT to be free from the *products* until *March of 2010*!!!!!! HuhHuh?

3.- Also, since you did not specify Cat Food, or Dog food and instead said Chicken *products*, I assume it is in both dog and cat food chicken formulas??

4.- The indication from you was that the company has no plans on issuing a recall on this food with these cancer causing preservatives, or retrieving any *product* that contains it, from your distributors shelves, because as you mentioned already it is in TRACE AMOUNTS? ?

5.- When discussing the importance of Trace amounts of ingredients in foods, and how they can cause severe allergic reactions in pets and especially in small pets, you said    Huh 

I ask, because I was not privy to your responses on that part of the conversation and the store became busy and I had to run out the door shortly after a short conversation, and I forgot to ask what your response to that was!  I.E. if you agreed or disagreed, changed your mind about the dangers or what? ! 

Keeping in mind that there are allergic reactions and then there are *build up* reactions......this greatly concerns me.

Those *people* who are allergic to peanuts, lets say, can go into a severe reaction just from kissing a person who has eaten some just prior to the kiss!      Tiny dogs are only 4-10 lbs only, so it would not take much of anything to have an affect on them and to start a build up!   Even a chemical in the air, which is inhaled, prior to death, can show up in hair follicles in an autopsy !  So, trace amounts can be and are in many case very dangerous.

Thank you in advance for your response..........

« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 08:39:25 PM by Pamela » Logged

Pamela Stoker Brander Myers
www.LetsTalkPetFoods.org
petslave
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« Reply #451 on: December 23, 2008, 08:04:43 PM »

Very interesting info, Pamela!  Thank you for posting this.
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Pamela
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« Reply #452 on: December 23, 2008, 08:35:01 PM »

Very interesting info, Pamela!  Thank you for posting this.

HI,
You are welcome......  It took me all afternoon in between real life here, to red all the way through (look up links etc) all 34 pages before I posted it , LOL    I wanted to see if Clark had already put it up first somewhere!

Hummmmmmm,  my ID name and siggie seemed to have disappeared!  Does that happen when one had not posted in a long time?

I shall go fix it, or Clark might not recognize me <G>  He knows my user name LetsTalkPetFoods though <G>

I thought my user name was LetsTalkPetFoods, but maybe not.   Could I have changed it without realizing it or is that non-changable?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 08:38:38 PM by Pamela » Logged

Pamela Stoker Brander Myers
www.LetsTalkPetFoods.org
Pamela
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Lil-Lea Diva Myers 6yrs old


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« Reply #453 on: December 23, 2008, 08:48:53 PM »

It's been awhile, Pamela, but I'm pretty sure I remember you and your avatar as Pamela.

Thanks, LOL, I am on so many forums and lists, I lose track sometimes of who I am on where  <Grin> I have a huge identity crises, to coin a phrase I recently heard. 
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Pamela Stoker Brander Myers
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JJ
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« Reply #454 on: December 23, 2008, 08:58:38 PM »

Pamela thanks for the added input for the BHA & BHT. Won't be removed til 2010? Sorry thats too long to feed even in any type of minute amount a carcinogen to my dog. Well held off taking the food back but back it shall go on friday. Will print out what you posted and take it to the store so they know exactly why it is being returned.
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May your troubles be less,
Your blessings be more,
And nothing but happiness
Come through your door
Pamela
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Posts: 68

Lil-Lea Diva Myers 6yrs old


WWW
« Reply #455 on: December 23, 2008, 09:43:13 PM »

Pamela thanks for the added input for the BHA & BHT. Won't be removed til 2010? Sorry thats too long to feed even in any type of minute amount a carcinogen to my dog. Well held off taking the food back but back it shall go on friday. Will print out what you posted and take it to the store so they know exactly why it is being returned.

The store owner/manager should have a direct connection to Clark, so she/he can put in a call to him and ask him directly.  That is what happened when I asked the store owner about what else they knew that I did not know yet <grin> They called him, on the spot while I was standing there ! 
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Pamela Stoker Brander Myers
www.LetsTalkPetFoods.org
Pamela
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Lil-Lea Diva Myers 6yrs old


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« Reply #456 on: December 23, 2008, 09:56:56 PM »

Keep up the good fight, even if it is a lot to keep track of!  Smiley

I am still plugging along <G> I really got so sick of it all, that I put Lil-Lea on regular ground grocery store meats and I grind egg shells to a fine powder and put that on her meals! 

Now we have to worry about store bought meats being irradiated and what affect that might have on a small toy breed!

It has become a nightmare!
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Pamela Stoker Brander Myers
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straybaby
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« Reply #457 on: December 23, 2008, 10:00:50 PM »

Pamela, don't know where you're at, but I get my pet meats here:

http://www.hare-today.com/

Peace of mind is priceless  Wink I feed ground to the cats (with small chicken parts for teeth and gums) and the dog (47lbs) gets body parts  Grin
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Pamela
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Lil-Lea Diva Myers 6yrs old


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« Reply #458 on: December 23, 2008, 10:02:32 PM »

Pamela, don't know where you're at, but I get my pet meats here:

http://www.hare-today.com/

Peace of mind is priceless  Wink I feed ground to the cats (with small chicken parts for teeth and gums) and the dog (47lbs) gets body parts  Grin

I am in the Hampton Roads Virginia area. I looked at the link.  Prices are affordable for me, BUT! The problem I have with these is that they are not for feeding humans and therefore I just can not trust the sources!  So many food producers have no care for out pets and I have such a time trusting them!    I have a hard time and worry about feeding her human meats now, with all this irradiation stuff going on now.   It is safe to say that I have a HUMONGOUS TRUST ISSUES, but especially so with commercial per food companies and sad to say, as you well know, sooner or later things come to fusion, unfortunately.   

Honestly, I don't know how any of us sleep at night any more because so many of us are so stressed out with all this and it never stops!  If if is not one thing it is another !  <sigh>


« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 10:09:29 PM by Pamela » Logged

Pamela Stoker Brander Myers
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straybaby
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« Reply #459 on: December 23, 2008, 10:14:19 PM »

If you ever feel like trying them, you could prob get by on the cheapest delivery. I've been using them for a couple yrs and never had a problem.   Smiley  I did have a shipment of meat for me from another ranch go off track during the summer and it was still fine when it showed up a day late (or was it 2?!) It went off to Ohio, lol!~ Just some info in case you want to give up the grocery store in the future for your pup  Smiley
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Pamela
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Posts: 68

Lil-Lea Diva Myers 6yrs old


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« Reply #460 on: December 23, 2008, 10:21:32 PM »

If you ever feel like trying them, you could prob get by on the cheapest delivery. I've been using them for a couple yrs and never had a problem.   Smiley  I did have a shipment of meat for me from another ranch go off track during the summer and it was still fine when it showed up a day late (or was it 2?!) It went off to Ohio, lol!~ Just some info in case you want to give up the grocery store in the future for your pup  Smiley

I really appreciate it Smiley  I would probably have to go drive over there <G> or have a friend do it for me , to actually look at tit < ROFLOL  I do have a friend in PA actually.....   She lives in Annsville.  I'll have to ask her how close this is to her !  Would be nice to be able to get ground organs once in awhile for Lil-Lea. 

Well, I am off to bed! I can't keep my yes open any more.

Nity-nite Smiley




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Pamela Stoker Brander Myers
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Clark Stride
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« Reply #461 on: December 24, 2008, 10:02:31 AM »

BHA/BHT residue is present because some ingredient suppliers do utilize these synthetic antioxidants in their production. We specify the use of natural antioxidants in our food, but it is still possible to get trace elements of BHA/BHT in our ingredient. To combat this, we do test for synthetic antioxidants, and will be increasing the frequency of these tests in order to better gauge the potential for the presence of synthetic antioxidant.
Hi Clark,

After reading that your testing revealed BHA/BHT in Orijen, I've got to ask:

Do you have legally binding contracts with your ingredient suppliers that specifiy that the ingredient must contain (fill in the blank), and must not contain any other additive, supplement, ingredient, adulterant, toxin, etc.?

Also, does your contract require that the supplier (not the supplier's supplier) test the ingredient for purity? 

Or some words to that effect.

Many thanks, and Merry Christmas.

5CatMom
=^..^=
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Clark Stride
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« Reply #462 on: December 24, 2008, 10:06:04 AM »

We have identified the source of the trace amounts of BHA/BHT and have corrected this.

Clark has the ingredient containing BHA/BHT been removed from the Orijen pet food? Or will it be? And what will replace these two chemical preservatives? Now that I know thanks to your input I must return the food to the store as my current dog only escaped the pet food recall, affecting many still to this day, because of being on organic and home cooking.

Glad your testing the ingredients but until the chemical preservatives and whatever other chemicals in the food are removed I can no feel at ease feeding this to my current dog. Not having this dog on my conscience that the food she loves just might give her cancer IMO. Last dog's tally was over $12,000.00. I feel for all those out there who are facing mountains of bills due to food problems in one way or another IMO.

This is the last dry food I will trust. Such a shame this had to happen.
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Clark Stride
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« Reply #463 on: December 24, 2008, 10:15:35 AM »

Cats that have eaten ORIJEN Dog Food will be covered by the compassion fund.

BHA/BHT residue is present because some ingredient suppliers do utilize these synthetic antioxidants in their production. We specify the use of natural antioxidants in our food, but it is still possible to get trace elements of BHA/BHT in our ingredient. To combat this, we do test for synthetic antioxidants, and will be increasing the frequency of these tests in order to better gauge the potential for the presence of synthetic antioxidant.

Aluminum testing is done routinely, and we typically have very low content of aluminum in our foods. Test results in the past have been well below 50 ppm in the food. Research shows that levels of between 3,000 and 30,000 ppm of aluminum in dog foods has no effect on dogs when consumed over a long period of time.

It is true that the cats in these scientific studies were fed exclusively irradiated diets. The same holds true for some of the cats in Australia and some of these cats have shown the same clinical signs. With this given situation, we need to interpret the results of existing scientific studies to try to determine the exact mechanism of disease. Although the studies done to date do not exactly replicate the feeding situation of the cats in Australia, the correlation between the clinical signs, the types of diets fed, the length of time on food, and the progression of the disease are all very similar and it can be reasonably concluded that we are dealing with a very similar situation. All tests done on the food have been good and do not show a cause of disease and the veterinary community in Australia has not been able to identify a mechanism of disease as well. As a result, we are dealing with a situation that is difficult to pinpoint the exact mechanism of cause. The correlation exists between ORIJEN consumption and the appearance in the clinical signs in the cats, and I believe the same type of correlation exists between the results from the scientific studies and the situation presently in Australia. We may never be able to prove exactly what is happening, but we can make reasonable conclusions based on science.



4.   In the study at MSU done on our foods, there were a few compounds discovered. The summary from the veterinary toxicologist at MSU was that they did not find any chemical compounds that are known to cause neurotoxicity. That said, the compounds appear to be preservative in nature. The relevance of these compounds is not known, other than they are not known to cause neurotoxicity. The preservative compounds found were BHA and BHT (a common food antioxidant). The MSU test does not quantify the amount of these compounds present, so we have done further tests to determine the quantity of BHA and BHT in the food. We have determined there are some trace amounts of each of these two compounds in the food. Champion Petfoods does not add BHA and BHT to the food, but we have traced the presence of these antioxidants to one of our ingredients. We are addressing the presence of this antioxidant in our ingredient and ensuring that our ingredient channels are free of synthetic antioxidant. Although BHA and BHT are approved for use in pet food, we do not use them as antioxidants in our foods. The levels found in the food from Australia were minimal and are far less than the approved maximum level for pet food. We are continuing to investigate the compounds found in the food and serum samples sent to MSU; however, both the Veterinary Toxicologist at MSU and our consulting Veterinary Toxicologist have not identified any of these compounds as having a known toxicity.

Hi Clark, Nice to speak with you again Smiley

Thank you for making yourself available to the consumers and all these poor people who have once again lost their beloved babies!

I have always thought Orijen to be a company who has thier Finger on the pulse of their food production, which was relayed to me by Peter,  on more than several occasions and I became comfortable with the products, considering I am far from a commercial pet food lover, as those who know me are well aware.  I have always given your company a higher rating then many others when asked about the better pet foods. But all this has rattled me from that..........  Hopefully you might be able to restore that confidence somewhere down the road.......  I expect certain things will happen, but I always watch the *performance* of the company !  That tells me a lot.  That said:

I have a few rather straight forward questions for you regarding the BHA and BHT.

I, personally, happened to be in a Hampton Roads Pet Store recently, while the owner/manager was on the phone talking to you. I over heard most all of the conversation and questions that person asked you and their response to your response and of course I asked questions after you all hung up the phone!  They were visibly not happy at some of the the response from your end of the phone, and nor was I.

Please do clarify where this needs clarification. Thank you........

1.- It is my understanding that it is/was a *dried* chicken *product* that contains the preservative, of which your company had no knowledge was there prior to this situation? Not sure of the dried part, but I thought that is what I heard?Huh

2.- You confirmed that the food that contains this substance is in ALL the chicken *product* made by your company, and then shipped and/or trucked out to the US and to AU?  You also confirmed that it is on the US shelves as we speak, including that particular store, and you do not expect the BHA and BHT to be free from the *products* until *March of 2010*!!!!!! HuhHuh?

3.- Also, since you did not specify Cat Food, or Dog food and instead said Chicken *products*, I assume it is in both dog and cat food chicken formulas??

4.- The indication from you was that the company has no plans on issuing a recall on this food with these cancer causing preservatives, or retrieving any *product* that contains it, from your distributors shelves, because as you mentioned already it is in TRACE AMOUNTS? ?

5.- When discussing the importance of Trace amounts of ingredients in foods, and how they can cause severe allergic reactions in pets and especially in small pets, you said    Huh 

I ask, because I was not privy to your responses on that part of the conversation and the store became busy and I had to run out the door shortly after a short conversation, and I forgot to ask what your response to that was!  I.E. if you agreed or disagreed, changed your mind about the dangers or what? ! 

Keeping in mind that there are allergic reactions and then there are *build up* reactions......this greatly concerns me.

Those *people* who are allergic to peanuts, lets say, can go into a severe reaction just from kissing a person who has eaten some just prior to the kiss!      Tiny dogs are only 4-10 lbs only, so it would not take much of anything to have an affect on them and to start a build up!   Even a chemical in the air, which is inhaled, prior to death, can show up in hair follicles in an autopsy !  So, trace amounts can be and are in many case very dangerous.

Thank you in advance for your response..........


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Clark Stride
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« Reply #464 on: December 24, 2008, 10:18:14 AM »

The source of the trace amounnts of BHA/BHT have already been removed. We are not waiting until 2010.
Pamela thanks for the added input for the BHA & BHT. Won't be removed til 2010? Sorry thats too long to feed even in any type of minute amount a carcinogen to my dog. Well held off taking the food back but back it shall go on friday. Will print out what you posted and take it to the store so they know exactly why it is being returned.
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