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Author Topic: Problems w/ Innova and test results-  (Read 94150 times)
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PFR07PS
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« Reply #705 on: July 21, 2007, 08:44:38 PM »

HD,

Thanks for posting your thoughts.  I agree that people should contact the companies to explain their concerns, ask questions, etc.

One issue that I have discovered is that many of these types of calls are not logged in.  We placed about 7 calls earlier this year, asking many questions each time, but never once were we asked any personal information.  I wonder how they could possibly track any quality issues, out of stocks, complaints, illness, etc., without knowing who called and where they were located. 

Donna
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JJ
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« Reply #706 on: July 21, 2007, 11:00:58 PM »


Expertox, with all their resources, couldn't get the black chunks from my sample to dissolve in solution


The clerk asked if I'd heard anything yet and said that Natura had called them "like 5 times" in the past week.  She didn't know exactly what they called about, other than to find out if any other customers had complained.



debsue,

So, if ExperTox could not get the black chunks in your sample to dissolve -- it really makes you wonder what actually is in those black chunks!  There are still a lot of answers that have yet to be discovered. 

That's a very interesting comment regarding Natura calling stores.  Seems very curious why a corporation would allocate such valuable resources of personnel and time to repeatedly call pet stores to determine if any other customers had complained.  They have continually stated it was "only one complaint", so it makes you wonder why the sudden drive for information. 

I think any real answers to these questions are going to be discovered on our own. 

Donna


We had those black and white chunks in our Karma (also a Natura product) and did our own very unscientific test on the Karma kibble.  We put about 6 oz bottled water in a clear drinking glass.  Put small amount of kibble in the water, which was room temp.  Left overnight.  Everything had dissolved.  No stirring.  The following morning (and this would be most likely some 9 hrs later) the water was just sort of cloudy and only very tiny specks of anything in it.  None of the chunks/particles or colored specks that might've been part of those particles.  This was in a way a relief, and it also would indicate to me that the white chunks were not bone (but not rice, either) but this glass of water/Karma had the foulest odor!  I had done a sniff test on the dry kibble when Jake refused to eat it, and I did not detect any odor from the kibble.  Jake the dog, otoh, must have, since he refused it w/out even one taste.  We tried mixing it in w/ his California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato (both dry kibble, nothing added) and he would take his paw, somewhat cat-like, and sweep the kibble onto the kitchen floor.  Then he would select only the Herring and Sweet Potato, leaving the Karma on the floor. 

As I said, the above is totally unscientific but did demonstrate in hindsight that chunks dissolved in plain water, leaving only tiny light brown speckles in cloudy water so we know those white/cream chunks were not bone.  Gave our microscope away decades ago.  Now regretting that!

A person in the pet food industry suggested that the most probable explanation for Jake's sudden refusal to eat Karma when new bag was opened was that this bag had mold on/in food.  Perhaps the same was true for the last bag of Karma biscuits that were not well received and hidden around the house.  All this is just speculation and has to do w/ Karma and nothing to do as far as explaining the Innova results from ExperTox.  Except for samples from our pet supply store, our Jake never had Innova...and those samples he did eat were almost a year ago.
carolo I needed a jar that I had the little bit of Karma I am saving in case its needed later on. Upon removing it to a plastic bag I did smell it and it had a slight sour odor to it. Do not know if it being 95% organic and maybe time limit was up for it to be eaten as far as freshness but stopped feeding right after the post about the Innova by same company.
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kittylyda
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« Reply #707 on: July 22, 2007, 07:52:36 AM »

I don't know if this is related to my cats eating Natura or not, but I thought I would share their latest test results.

During the recalls my 2 cats ate some of the tainted food.  Since then they have been on fluid therapy and 3 months ago when I last got bloodwork done the younger cat had kidney levels back to normal and my old, ancient cat still had levels that were slightly elevated.  Yesterday I got the results back for the most current round of bloodwork and my old kitty was about same, which is what I expected.  However, younger kitty's kidney levels were still fine, but the test showed elevated liver levels.  I understand if cats ingest some form of tylenol (don't feel like trying to spell the generic version) then the liver would be affected.  I can't say for sure that this is do to the food (they were eating mostly canned Innova, Cal Nat & a bit of Innova dry), especially since old, frail kitty didn't have any liver troubles and they pretty much eat the same thing.  Obviously this is very distressing to me as I thought my younger cat was kind of out of the woods.  I don't think I would feed my cats a Natura product again, but I really would like to know if this latest development is due to the food that I fed them.  Come on, Natura.  I need some answers here.
~kittylyda
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Nabiya
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« Reply #708 on: July 22, 2007, 08:57:37 AM »

I don't know if this is related to my cats eating Natura or not, but I thought I would share their latest test results.

During the recalls my 2 cats ate some of the tainted food.  Since then they have been on fluid therapy and 3 months ago when I last got bloodwork done the younger cat had kidney levels back to normal and my old, ancient cat still had levels that were slightly elevated.  Yesterday I got the results back for the most current round of bloodwork and my old kitty was about same, which is what I expected.  However, younger kitty's kidney levels were still fine, but the test showed elevated liver levels.  I understand if cats ingest some form of tylenol (don't feel like trying to spell the generic version) then the liver would be affected.  I can't say for sure that this is do to the food (they were eating mostly canned Innova, Cal Nat & a bit of Innova dry), especially since old, frail kitty didn't have any liver troubles and they pretty much eat the same thing.  Obviously this is very distressing to me as I thought my younger cat was kind of out of the woods.  I don't think I would feed my cats a Natura product again, but I really would like to know if this latest development is due to the food that I fed them.  Come on, Natura.  I need some answers here.
~kittylyda
Elevated liver levels can sometimes indicate hyperthyroidism.  I had a cat that was misdiagonosed as having liver failure and she was finally properly diagnosed at UC Davis.  Did your vet check her thyroid values?
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kittylyda
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« Reply #709 on: July 22, 2007, 02:41:49 PM »

Nabiya,
Yes, my vet did check the thyroid values and so far they are fine.  We are going to re-check everything again in a month after more twice weekly fluids and supplements.

Thanks for looking out for us.
~kittylyda
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Kaylas_Mom
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« Reply #710 on: July 22, 2007, 04:03:02 PM »

I have been watching this thread for a few days....I too had a problem with Innova dog food green bag 33lbs...My German Shepherd had been eating this food for about 3 years...With the last bag I got, she began acting listless, not interested in much of anything (including her food), had gastric upset problem...basically all of the same indications that were reported in this thread. I checked the kibble...it was exactly the same as was pictured here. Lots of little white grains and some black ones. I took her off the Innova, returned the remained to the store, and put her on California Naturals Lamb. Within 48 hours, she was back to normal in all respects. I also found a small piece of blue rubber-like material in a can of California Natural Chicken and Rice. It may be coincidence, but it sure doesn't seem like it. She was obviously ill (for more than a week), and taking her off of the Innova fixed her up in a matter of a couple of days. Now we're a bit concerned about the California Natural Kibble, But she seems to be doing fine with it.
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kittylyda
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« Reply #711 on: July 22, 2007, 04:45:10 PM »

Has anyone else whose dogs or cats ate Natura products had bloodwork done recently?  I'm wondering specifically if you have seen any elevated liver or kidney levels.

Thanks.
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yl
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« Reply #712 on: July 22, 2007, 05:17:12 PM »

Yes my dogs  blood work ,showed even though they were drinking huge amounts of water, they were dehydrated. They were urinating a lot and one was incontinent. Some other blood levels were low. i had been using California Natural lamb & Rice, Evo ancesterial, Innova treats, Innova health bars. My dogs were sick .

I then tried Canadae did not even get through a bag. My dogs are know on homecooked
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lesliek
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« Reply #713 on: July 22, 2007, 06:18:18 PM »

Kittylyda- I had my lab mix at the vet last Thurs.Incontinence & leaking urine after he goes.His thyroid levels were good,but his liver values are not.He is not concentrating his urine either. Had the same problem with the Chi a month ago. He hasn't been retested yet. Doing a no water & fasting urine test tomorrow;hopefully it will come out better. Next step is xrays & ultrasound. I was still giving them a very small amount of Cal nat & Evo treats until 2 wks ago. They are on totally homemade now.
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« Reply #714 on: July 23, 2007, 02:12:30 PM »

Finally, the test results.  Samples of both the retained samples of the actual production run for Donna’s food (the retain sample is a composite of the entire production run and does include a representative sample of Donna’s food, including a sample taken directly in the middle of the two samples that she sent us - i.e. Donna’s samples were stamped 2019 and 2022; our retain is time stamped 2021) and the premix used in that production was sent to two different laboratories for testing.  As expected, both tests have come back negative for acetaminophen contamination.  Please follow this link for scans of the results including the test for cyanuric acid and melamine: 

http://www.naturapet.com/about-natura/labresults.asp

It is important that I apologize to all of our loyal customers, employees, retailers and, yes, even Donna for not handling this situation better.  Until I spoke with Donna on June 13th, Natura did not have knowledge of her Expertox test results.  After speaking with her, I directed that the samples that she sent us be tested at another lab for melamine, cyanuric acid and acetaminophen (note the date on the Midwest Laboratories test result link and you can see that immediate action was taken).  However, it was more difficult to find laboratories that could test for acetaminophen; and once we settled on the UC Davis and Expertox labs, we learned that they were backed-up and our test requests could take several weeks to complete.  During that time I was traveling on business and neglected to make the effort needed to make sure that Donna was kept in the loop and informed of these testing delays.

Natura is, always has been, and will continue to be committed to making the healthiest pet foods in the world.  I hope that these independent laboratory analyses will address your concerns and validate that our foods are in no way harmful to your pets. 
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Orange Fuzzball
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« Reply #715 on: July 23, 2007, 03:32:09 PM »

PAtkins: I'm actually surprised to see you post here again. I would have thought your lawyers had put the kibosh on that. In any case, thank you for finally posting those test results. Do you also intend to link them to the recall information on the front page?

Further, has the explanation for the pieces of plastic and black and white bits in the kibble been found?

I hope that at some point I will feel confident feeding Natura products again, as my cat is a big fan of California Natural Chicken & Rice dry. But I will need to see that whatever problem caused those bits in the kibble has been acknowledged and resolved first.
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kittylyda
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« Reply #716 on: July 23, 2007, 03:42:43 PM »

Thank you, Mr. Atkins for posting your test results.

I have to say I can't believe that they would fake results from 3 different labs.  I am impressed with the follow up.  Now, if I can only find an explaination for my cats elevated liver values.  I really want to be able to trust this company again.
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debsue
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« Reply #717 on: July 23, 2007, 03:47:25 PM »

Do you also intend to link them to the recall information on the front page?

Good point.  It's not on the main page, not on the news page, and not on the site map.  So unless someone clicks on the link from within this thread, they're not going to see this info.  I hope PAtkins gets that fixed soon.
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kittylyda
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« Reply #718 on: July 23, 2007, 04:07:59 PM »

Do you also intend to link them to the recall information on the front page?

Good point.  It's not on the main page, not on the news page, and not on the site map.  So unless someone clicks on the link from within this thread, they're not going to see this info.  I hope PAtkins gets that fixed soon.

I don't know if we will see them make that update.  I don't think they would want to advertise this.
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carolo
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« Reply #719 on: July 23, 2007, 04:13:47 PM »

Finally, the test results.  Samples of both the retained samples of the actual production run for Donna’s food (the retain sample is a composite of the entire production run and does include a representative sample of Donna’s food, including a sample taken directly in the middle of the two samples that she sent us - i.e. Donna’s samples were stamped 2019 and 2022; our retain is time stamped 2021) and the premix used in that production was sent to two different laboratories for testing.  As expected, both tests have come back negative for acetaminophen contamination.  Please follow this link for scans of the results including the test for cyanuric acid and melamine: 

http://www.naturapet.com/about-natura/labresults.asp



Mr. Atkins, thank you for returning to this forum linking us to copies of the test results.  I'm especially pleased to see that the vitamin mineral premix was tested separately. 

~Carol
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