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shibadiva
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« Reply #675 on: July 20, 2007, 08:08:24 PM » |
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1gone Isn't good enough for my pets.
This thread is 48 pages long at time of writing, and I don't think there are a whole lot of extraneous posts.
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~~ Gandhi
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Orange Fuzzball
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« Reply #676 on: July 20, 2007, 08:12:32 PM » |
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You know, if they're having a production quality issue due to increased demand, all they would need to do is come clean and fix it. This would go a long way towards restoring confidence. That would explain the garbage in the kibble. Still wouldn't explain the toxins in the tests - but I'm more and more convinced that problem is much bigger than one company. They're not doing themselves any favours by the way they're handling this.  |
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shibadiva
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« Reply #677 on: July 20, 2007, 08:27:58 PM » |
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Orange Fuzzball And here it is, Friday night. We might have expected an announcement.
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A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~~ Gandhi
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1gone, another on meds
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« Reply #678 on: July 20, 2007, 08:34:20 PM » |
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1gone Isn't good enough for my pets.
Shibadiva - Agreed! - not good enough for my pets either.. This garbage needs to stop and stop now |
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SandyBeach
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« Reply #679 on: July 20, 2007, 09:23:42 PM » |
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Donna , Debbie Sue, and ALL others who have fed any of these foods and posted the pictures of things in them would you please post your experience with them IN http://itchmoforums.com/index.php?topic=1180.0 They also have threads on Evo, Ca Natural and others in that area. Your information would be helpful and may save lives and if good experiences could ease the mind of some cat or dog mom. Donna and Debbie Sue I only remembered your names but I know there are many who have fed these foods. These are moderated Thanks
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PFR07PS
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« Reply #680 on: July 20, 2007, 09:47:52 PM » |
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Debsue
I am truly glad that your sample yielded no toxins. I am certain you are relieved.
Regarding the comments:
the black chunks are "part of the natural vitamin premix," and they have since reduced the particle size specification "to eliminate this issue."
In our phone conversation the president stated the black chunks (ref. our sample) were chunks of vitamin mineral premix. He said the ingredients all go through a grinder and as a result nothing should remain a chunk. He said the premix is added separately. He mentioned he thought it was very rare, but sometimes the premix will ‘clump’ due to moisture or whatever else and that might result in chunks.
“White chunks are bone” and “typical for this product”
What??
“I'm pretty sure the white chunks weren't brown rice, and I don't think it was connective tissue sticking out of my kibble.”
Our beige chunks were not rice, unless rice now comes in pyramid types shapes. And the object sticking out of our kibble does not appear to be connective tissue either.
I’m glad that you did not have to wait long for the results and that they actually reported back with you.
Donna
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 09:50:21 PM by PFR07PS »
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JJ
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« Reply #681 on: July 20, 2007, 10:38:55 PM » |
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Also, is this a connection to the "wool and hair" checkpoint in the ingredients section on the quality control list that you posted earlier?
I could be wrong, but I think the "% wool and hair" in the quality control list has to do with the use of lamb as an ingredient. There's a section on the Natura website that explains the various ingredients, and here's what it says about lamb meal: "Lamb meal is the dry rendered (cooked down) product from lamb tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices." (emphasis mine) So apparently, even with good processing practices, there could (will?) be some amount of wool/hair in the product. Doesn't sound appetizing to me. debsue the wool/hair you mention - is that in the Innova? Karma does not have lamb in it, just organic chicken but am not feeding any Natura products at all after the first post by Donna alerting us to the Innova also made by Natura. EWWWWWWWW hair? All of us know how we gag when we get a piece of hair in our mouths when eating. |
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'Life isn't about how to survive the storm,
But how to dance in the rain.'
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JanC
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« Reply #682 on: July 21, 2007, 07:29:35 AM » |
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Maybe I'm being a little paranoid here but for some reason, this all makes sense to me. The fact that the first sample sent to Expertox was found to have contaminants in it & Natura can't seem to find the sample & test it. The next sample, even with the same chunks in it, was found to be squeaky clean.....now this sample Natura located, tested & happily gave the info to the consumer. Hmmmmm. What a huge coincidence, dontcha think?  I just cannot equate wholesome food for my dog with chunks of blue plastic, hair & what looks like sutures.......ewwwwwwwww. Plus that, out of date meat, complete with plastic & styrofoam, isn't exactly what I'd be feeding my dog at home. This is gross & should not be going into pet food PERIOD. I won't even go into rendering because that's landfill, not pet food. I would expect this kind of crap from the big guys because they are greedy sleaze bags but not from the smaller companies that we all trusted.  |
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Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened - - Anon.
If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went - - Will Rogers
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PFR07PS
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« Reply #683 on: July 21, 2007, 09:59:01 AM » |
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the wool/hair you mention - is that in the Innova?
JJ, I believe the wool & hair is specific to any brands with lamb in it. Lamb is not listed on the Innova ingredient statement. Donna |
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petslave
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« Reply #684 on: July 21, 2007, 10:17:39 AM » |
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No, JanC, not paranoid at all. That nice big chunk of time they asked for to 'get the test results' are just perfect for a silent recall. It's been the way they have all been taking care of these problems for months now--no embarrassed announcements, big fallout from public outcry, just go in & take it all back & restock the shelves with new runs, then come back & say, it's all OK, everyone go back to sleep. It totally makes sense that they would do this, from a business/economic/lno awsuit/save your a** standpoint.
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ElenaL
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« Reply #685 on: July 21, 2007, 10:19:55 AM » |
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To everyone who has the black "rocks" from Natura dog and cat food.Perhaps a science experiment to check the premix theory.Extract a "rock" from the kibble,(if a bit of kibble is still around,the kibble will dissolve away in warm water) treat the "rock" as a pill in the following: ". The following test is taken from the Supplement Quality website: http://www.supplementquality.com/news/multi_vitamins_minerals.html. 1. Place approximately one cup of white vinegar in a small bowl and warm it to 98 degrees or so by placing it inside a larger bowl of water that you "top up" several times with warm water from the tap. (The goal is to keep the vinegar reasonably close to 98 degrees for half an hour.) 2. Drop your multi-vitamin (or other pill) into the vinegar, and jostle it about every five minutes or so by gently shaking or swirling the cup. While you can also stir the mix with a wooden stick or toothpick, be careful not to touch the tablet itself. 3. The tablet should dissolve within 30 minutes. (This is the USP standard for all pharmaceutical tablets.) If it doesn't dissolve within a full hour, it's not doing you much good. Get another brand!" Keep in mind the 98 degrees is human body temp,so 102 is probably more accurate for this purpose. Even assuming it is vitamin premix,one has to wonder how such a "vitamin clump" would affect the nutritional quality of the food. Offy has links to state agriculture departments,check your state & if you are fortunate enough to live in a free/low cost state,take advantage of it. |
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 10:41:31 AM by ElenaL »
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debsue
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« Reply #686 on: July 21, 2007, 11:19:52 AM » |
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Expertox, with all their resources, couldn't get the black chunks from my sample to dissolve in solution, so I'd be surprised if anyone could get them to dissolve in vinegar in EleanL's experiment. Maybe some of the chunks are clumped vitamins, but I doubt that all of them are. Even giving the benefit of the doubt and saying they are, they're not doing my dogs any good if they won't dissolve and are just excreted out.
Hopefully, Natura is beginning to take this seriously. I went to the pet food store today where I (used to) buy Innova. I had shown them my sample before I sent it off for testing. The clerk asked if I'd heard anything yet and said that Natura had called them "like 5 times" in the past week. She didn't know exactly what they called about, other than to find out if any other customers had complained.
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PFR07PS
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« Reply #687 on: July 21, 2007, 11:25:41 AM » |
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Have you ever stopped to think why their response time is so long?
Have you ever wondered where the questionable product in stores will go while they continue to delay?
("That nice big chunk of time they asked for to 'get the test results' are just perfect for a silent recall.") Gosh, petslave, I think you may be on to a HUGE discovery! Donna |
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jenny
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« Reply #688 on: July 21, 2007, 11:54:56 AM » |
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Hummm - have you actually heard of them doing a silent recall? It sounds as if you are saying the Natura people would be pulling stock off a shelf and replacing it with something else? Or are you saying they are telling stores to do this? The only odd thing about that theory, is that we have a local store that has been very responsible throughout the recalls. They have pulled any and all brands associated with the recalls and no longer sell those products. I think the one exception is that they still have the dry food for Chicken Soup (the cans were recalled). They also stopped offering one brand because they couldn't get a straight answer from them as to where their product was made. They completely dropped Iams, Eukenuba, Nutro, Science Diet and Pro Plan - although they were always more into the natural foods and these were offered for convenience. I have a hard time thinking this store, that sells Natura product, would be complicit in any recall effort. I am sure they are probably watching this forum thread as they have the itchmo web page linked to theirs.
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PFR07PS
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« Reply #689 on: July 21, 2007, 11:58:46 AM » |
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Expertox, with all their resources, couldn't get the black chunks from my sample to dissolve in solution
The clerk asked if I'd heard anything yet and said that Natura had called them "like 5 times" in the past week. She didn't know exactly what they called about, other than to find out if any other customers had complained.
debsue, So, if ExperTox could not get the black chunks in your sample to dissolve -- it really makes you wonder what actually is in those black chunks! There are still a lot of answers that have yet to be discovered. That's a very interesting comment regarding Natura calling stores. Seems very curious why a corporation would allocate such valuable resources of personnel and time to repeatedly call pet stores to determine if any other customers had complained. They have continually stated it was "only one complaint", so it makes you wonder why the sudden drive for information. I think any real answers to these questions are going to be discovered on our own. Donna |
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