SandyBeach
Long-Standing Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 329
Missing my cat brothers and sister killed by PF
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« Reply #585 on: July 17, 2007, 11:19:41 PM » |
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Well Jenny it's almost mid the week they said they would update and I didn't see anything as of yet. I do not blame the lab.....If I ran a company I would have had more than 1 lab run my foods to see what was up. I fed this food for 11 years ...I am not paranoid nor do I scare easy...I feel Natura will never fess up IF they are tainted. The cash...So many companies like NB have been really ruined by this .....I won't blame a lab I feel its up to the company to recall something then they ought to test test and test more using many labs. They can pay for it. So far nothing again from Natura, I wonder if they hope this thread will be buried in cross chat and fall pages back never to be seen again? I guess we will see...or not see I was one to rally to Natura's defense but the way they have handled these issues has been a disappointment. I will be shocked and somewhat impressed if P. Atkins does come back here and post , though I doubt he will ...but we will see what the site has to say when/if it is updated Actually I would not expect Natura to post here again. To me that doesn't mean they are a good or bad company. It is simply a no-win situation for them. Lets say for a minute that there food is not contaminated. Lets say that the lab that Donna used produces false positives in their test because the levels are set too low. I'm not saying these are facts, but lets pretend for a moment that they are.......What possible gain could Natura have for posting here and getting into a debate? There is no way even if they are innocent that they could win. Many people have already decided against them and would not be satisfied any way. Getting into a debate does not help their cause. Perhaps it is that I work for a very large corporation, but I would advise them not to post here ever again if I was their lawyer (no, I don't have a law back ground). So, to me, there are two maybe three things I care about: 1) Is the food contaminated? I was told there would be an update next week. I am withholding judgment until that time. (is the lab Donna used the same lab that also tested some of the Iams dog food? That story seems to have been debunked if I can judge by the petconnection blog entry I posted earlier. This is a question, not a statement. ) 2) Is there a production control issue? Some of the things in the posts above just sound like normal food qualities to me. There are a few things that sound bad - i.e. blue things sticking out of the food. Each owner would need to decide if the production control issues are sufficient for them to stop using the food. I made that decision with Evanger's canned foods - although I will probably revisit at some point in time. I have not seen any quality issues in the cans of Innova or EVO I have fed my cats - or the 1 or 2 cans of California Natural. 3) Is there an issue with how they treat their customers? There seems to be some question as to when Donna's sample arrived - but I assume that Donna is being truthful with what she was told. As for having a lawyer contact Donna, I don't see anything wrong with that. Most large companies have lawyers for counsel on a regular basis, and many very large companies have them as part of their staff. Lets pretend there is nothing wrong with the food they make and they see this blog - I would bring my lawyer into the picture too. For others that have dealt with the company - I don't remember the details - each of you will have to decide if their conduct was OK or not. In my case I am pending some non-related information. They didn't respond to my last two emails but I did talk to them on Friday. If they deliver, I will be OK. Would I prefer that they just answer my email? Sure - but most of the companies I have contacted in the past few months have done similar. My thoughts at least - and I know many of you will disagree. But it is good to have all view points here I think! |
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jenny
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« Reply #586 on: July 18, 2007, 03:17:26 AM » |
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Yep - only reporting what they told me. So, we will see if they update their web page, or whatever she meant by saying there would be an update this week.
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Offy
Guest
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« Reply #587 on: July 18, 2007, 05:06:25 PM » |
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Questions for the folks who had strings and other umm, nasties, in their kibble and have pictures:
What is the exact variety of product? (Innova, EVO, California Natural, HealthWise, MotherNature, Karma - and under each which one - there are several offerings)
Do you have the product codes?
Does the ingredient list have "meal" in it?
I guess I'm wondering if it's the same product/line and same lots/batches or rendered ingredients.
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« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 05:09:14 PM by Offy »
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JJ
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« Reply #588 on: July 18, 2007, 05:53:49 PM » |
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SandyBeach so true that a lot of us have made up our minds or are about to. My last dog was over $10,000.00 in vet bills so can't do that with my current one needless to say. Now like the rest am truly disappointed in Karma for being one that has made my dog eat so much grass to throw-up that food since it has something in it that did not agree w/her. I really liked that food since they gave a 100% guarantee. Now question that too. Oh well on to better and safer food for all our lil kids.
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May your troubles be less,
Your blessings be more,
And nothing but happiness
Come through your door
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PFR07PS
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« Reply #589 on: July 18, 2007, 06:06:56 PM » |
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Questions for the folks who had strings and other umm, nasties, in their kibble and have pictures:
What is the exact variety of product? (Innova, EVO, California Natural, HealthWise, MotherNature, Karma - and under each which one - there are several offerings)
Do you have the product codes?
Does the ingredient list have "meal" in it?
I guess I'm wondering if it's the same product/line and same lots/batches or rendered ingredients.
Offy, We had Innova Adult Dry Dog (green bag) - 33# - EXP 04 11 08 Confirm - it does have "chicken meal" in it. Hopefully, the others will confirm their product info, but I recall Karma, another Innova adult dry dog (green bag) and Innova & Evo sample bags Donna |
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petslave
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« Reply #590 on: July 18, 2007, 07:10:41 PM » |
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Good idea, Offy, that's important info to try to link some of this together. It must have been certain lots since it's not in everyone's current kibble.
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yl
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« Reply #591 on: July 18, 2007, 07:12:41 PM » |
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Has anyone noticed a strange smell from bags with food still in them ? The smell is quite strong almost like feces.
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debsue
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« Reply #592 on: July 18, 2007, 07:16:25 PM » |
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Questions for the folks who had strings and other umm, nasties, in their kibble and have pictures:
What is the exact variety of product? (Innova, EVO, California Natural, HealthWise, MotherNature, Karma - and under each which one - there are several offerings)
Do you have the product codes?
Does the ingredient list have "meal" in it?
I guess I'm wondering if it's the same product/line and same lots/batches or rendered ingredients.
Mine is Innova Adult (green bag), 6.6 lb, EXP MAR 19 08 2240, and "chicken meal" is the 3rd ingredient. |
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yl
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« Reply #593 on: July 18, 2007, 07:23:01 PM » |
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the food in my prior post is cal nat lamb and rice meal and is currently in a sealed plastic container.
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petslave
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« Reply #594 on: July 18, 2007, 07:50:50 PM » |
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wow, botulism is serious stuff. wonder what happened there, bad canning run?
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dingbat
Long-Standing Member
Hero Member
Posts: 2281
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
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« Reply #595 on: July 18, 2007, 08:04:13 PM » |
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Petslave Looks like it wasn't processed properly. Here is a link to botulism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BotulismIt cites some cases, of commercial canning problems. Typically it wasn't cooked long enough or at a high enough temperature db  |
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I used to think that anyone doing anything weird was weird. I suddenly realized that anyone doing anything weird wasn't weird at all and it was the people saying they were weird that were weird.
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petslave
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« Reply #596 on: July 18, 2007, 08:16:14 PM » |
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I feel nauseated & slightly weak from contemplating this.
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JJ
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« Reply #597 on: July 18, 2007, 08:45:29 PM » |
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Another food that is processed in a can that who knows when it was produced. Less processed food is best way to go, healthier too.
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May your troubles be less,
Your blessings be more,
And nothing but happiness
Come through your door
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carolo
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« Reply #598 on: July 18, 2007, 09:26:50 PM » |
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Questions for the folks who had strings and other umm, nasties, in their kibble and have pictures:
What is the exact variety of product? (Innova, EVO, California Natural, HealthWise, MotherNature, Karma - and under each which one - there are several offerings)
Do you have the product codes?
Does the ingredient list have "meal" in it?
I guess I'm wondering if it's the same product/line and same lots/batches or rendered ingredients.
The food my dog was on ~Karma Organic 1/4/08 in 4.4# bag As for meal, none listed here http://www.karmaorganicpet.com/products/default.asp?id=1503This bag had no strings/fishingline/whatever threaded thru the kibble, no colored plastic looking pieces. It had no odor, or not to my own examination and I have exceptional sense of smell. It must've had some odor to Jake, because he wouldn't even take a kibble from the bowl and he was hungry. Dove right into his older supply of California Natural when that was put down. This was a just opened bag of Karma. It had black or dark particles and white or cream particles in it. Had not noticed that in previous bags but not to say it was not there. I posted photos on this thread and can repost if needed. It has been sent off for testing and to Natura. I don't have any of the remaining product here. Returned it to the store, getting full refund. On another night, we mixed the Karma into home cooked for Jake instead of putting it on top, in an attempt to "trick" him into eating it. He ate some, made a gagging, choking sound. Looked as if he was going to vomit but did not and stopped the noise. I took the bag later, sat down to sniff and examine kibble. Usually this would have caused Jake to hop up into my lap in hopes of a handout. He jumped up but declined the food from my hand. I repeated this w/ the California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato, the sit down w/ bag and examine part. Jake jumped up in my lap and eagerly went after the contents, making it hard for me to examine this older supply of food. Obviously, he thought that was fine. I don't know what, if anything, was wrong with the product but am fairly certain something was not right if I'm to believe Jake's behavior. I did ask on my last phone call to Natura if Karma always had those particles in it and never got an answer. Perhaps someone else here has Karma at home and could look at it and report back? Will let you know when test results are in. Meanwhile, I wish Natura would update their site with the promised information. Things can happen w/ just one run of food or one shipment, both human and animal. The odd thing here is that it seems to be a number of Natura varieties that changed from their usual as I read thru the posts. I know many of us are looking for that one ingredient in common and not necessarily finding it. |
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PFR07PS
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« Reply #599 on: July 18, 2007, 11:05:44 PM » |
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Regarding our pets:
-- Watch & listen to your pets! If they refuse a food, there is a reason.
-- Make note of any recurring symptoms (vomiting, eating grass, lethargy, increased water intake, increased urination, incontinence, weight gain, etc.). These are not the symptoms sometimes associated with transitioning to a new food. It is something that hangs around longer than a few days or weeks.
-- Keep a detailed calendar of symptoms, exactly what happens, when and what was fed.
-- Carefully look at the food as you prepare each meal; also give it a sniff (does it smell ok).
Suggestions regarding suspect product (any brand/manufacturer):
-- If you return the product to the store for a refund, keep 2-3 cups in your possession along with a note of any/all package coding (this was suggested by an independent pet store owner).
-- Keep a copy of the sales receipt.
-- Contact the manufacturer to advise them of your concerns. Ask if they log and track this information. Ask if there are any other reports.
-- If you send a sample to the mfg., ask where they test the samples (in-house or contracted lab).
-- If you see something strange, take a picture.
I encourage everyone to just be aware of your pets. They tell us more than we sometimes realize. They depend on us.
Donna
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« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 11:12:53 PM by PFR07PS »
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