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JanC
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« Reply #1246 on: October 19, 2007, 10:10:35 AM » |
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By the time you go through the list of all the ingredients you DON'T want in your pet's food, you have so few choices. Then you add in staying away from the places (either companies or manufacturers) who had recalls & no canned food from MF.....geez, your choices are down to maybe three, if you're lucky.  I'm so afraid of ANY commercial pf after all I've learned since the black days of March......I give my dog just a tad of wet & dry......mostly for the vitamins/minerals (which I can only pray don't come from China). I'm starting to back off even more & increase the home cooked food.  Whatever I'm doing seems to be agreeing with her.....she looks great, has lots of energy (too much, perhaps....yuk yuk  ) & eats like the little piggy that she is. When I'm preparing her food, she goes into her "gimme some grub" dance. I will only use pf that has no grains or glutens.....by the time I'm done reading up on most foods & where they're made, my choices are less than a few. But it seems to be working so I won't complain......  |
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Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened - - Anon.
If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went - - Will Rogers
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leavesofjoy
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« Reply #1247 on: October 23, 2007, 04:47:21 PM » |
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I had been feeding our husky mix Innova (regular, green bag) since he was a pup, he's 11 now and has always been in excellent health, great energy, beautiful coat, no illnesses. Last week, though, he suddenly refused to eat any of it. We thought he was just picky from stress, we were traveling, so we tried all kinds of things mixed in- cooked chicken, grated cheese, yogurt, rice, etc. He refused to eat any from two different bags, he went for 3 days without eating anything. We thought he had lost his appetite entirely and were very worried! Then I remembered that on many of the forums, people said dogs often had refused to eat food that later turned out to be bad. All the same week he had some digestive problems, diarrhea and drinking lots of water, but he has always had a sensitive stomach, and again we thought it was the traveling stress. But when he stopped eating a light went off in my head. So, I cooked him some rice with chicken & broccoli, and he ate about 3 cups of it in under a minute! The rest of our trip we fed him only that, no Innova, and the diarrhea stopped the first day of the switch, and he went back to normal water intake. Now, I'm really frustrated beacuse I obsessively watched everything I could during the recalls, and thought Innova was ok. He has done so well on it all these years, but I'm not going to feed him any more. It's upsetting, since this is only one instance, and I hate to switch from a food that was so good for him without "official laboratory proof" type info, but his symptoms do match the ones discussed on the www.petfoodrecallfacts.com site, and they cleared up instantly when he finally got us to pay attention by starving himself. He seems to be fine now, he's a strong fellow, and I'm going to have to find new food, but I wanted to be sure to share this since other folks' posts on this forum were so helpful to me in all my research during the big recall. Any food suggestions would be appreciated, also! -leavesofjoy |
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lesliek
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« Reply #1248 on: October 23, 2007, 05:20:50 PM » |
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leavesofjoy- I am glad he's doing better. Look in the brands by experience thread for some ideas. I'm sorry I can't recommend anything. We are all homemade here with Zukes treats for backup if I run out of homemade bones.
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"the world's most inept extortionist"
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JanC
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« Reply #1249 on: October 24, 2007, 06:35:07 AM » |
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leavesofjoy: Leslie is right.....you need to do some reading here (about different brands) & other websites......like the pet food list or pet food tracker. Lots of good info there too. Making any recommendations is a no-no simply because none of us really know anymore what's good & what's not. You were right in paying attention to what your dog was telling you. They know better than we do. They probably smell something odd in the food which is why they refuse to eat it. You do know that you shouldn't be leaving your dog on the same food for long periods of time, right? You should have at least two or three that you trust so you can rotate these foods from time to time. What one may be missing in nutrients, the next one will make up for......at least we sure hope so! Many are home cooking or feeding raw but this is not right for everyone. There are still good pet foods out there but you have to do your research...... |
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Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened - - Anon.
If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went - - Will Rogers
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leavesofjoy
Newbie
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« Reply #1250 on: October 24, 2007, 12:37:07 PM » |
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Thanks for the tips, I will read through the recommendations pages & do some research. In the meantime, I'm cooking for him, so he's a happy camper!
I understand the point about changing up his diet, I don't eat the same thing every day for the same reason. But I have left the kibble part of it alone since it works. Other brands we've tried from time to time, and even switching his treats, really mess up his digestion for days. He has an underlying weakness there from a case of worms he had as a pup that one vet missed, which went on for a week before another vet caught it. Anyway, any switches in the commercial part of his diet cause a lot of problems, although when everything is going well, he goes for months without any upsets at all, so he is very healthy as long as the "protocol" is followed.
The commercial part, though, is only about half of what he eats every day, I leave it as a base so he gets enough vitamins, minerals, etc. The other half is extra food I cook him or "leftovers" from our dinners- we eat really well, so that is usually some brown rice, oatmeal, wing & back meat from chicken, lamb bits, veggies, etc. So he does get a varied diet that way, and that seems to work. That part is so varied & changeable that I have been reluctant to go without some safety net of kibble, especially on nights we get carry-out and there's not good leftovers for him.
I'd like to cook all his food, but I just can't, we travel a lot, and have other people take care of him sometimes, and I have my own business, so the kibble has to be part of the solution. Anyway, I'll research it, and maybe try a couple types if they don't set off his gut too much.
Thanks!
leavesofjoy
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JJ
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« Reply #1251 on: October 24, 2007, 09:26:43 PM » |
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Welcome leavesofjoy. I home cook and should I have to leave my dog with someone will cook enough to freeze enough to last til I would be back so never have to worry about any kibble anymore. That might be something to try if you have the time.
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'Life isn't about how to survive the storm,
But how to dance in the rain.'
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yl
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« Reply #1252 on: November 07, 2007, 04:55:58 PM » |
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Since some posts are lost in cyber space I've decided to repost my test resultsof Natura products , tested for potato toxins. Innova health bar baked dog treats Chaconine 2.38 ug/g, Solanine 4.96 ug/g. Also contained feather fragments.
Innova Evo no Grain Baked Treats dogs Chaconine 41.0 ug/g, Solanine 40.9 ug/g. Also contained feather fragments.
California Natural lamb and rice formula adult dog food Chaconine 12.8 ug/g, Solanine 14.6 ug/g.Also contained hair.
Innova no grain treats for dogs chaconine 49.0 ug/g ,Solanine 51.0 ug/g.Also contained feather fragments.
Innova Evo Ancestrial Diet chaconine 46.3 ug/g , Solanine 43.3 ug/g. Also contained feather fragments.
Please if your pet becomes ill consult with your vet, notify the pet food company(be prepared for bs.) and get your food tested. Mine was done through Ag. & Mkts. in my state.
I am aware of tests done on other samples these products that showed they were positive for potato toxins . Innove evo ancestrial diet Chaconine 51.8 ug/g, Solanine 68.1 ug/g. Innova Evo baked treats Chaconine 28.7 ug/g , Solanine 44.5 ug/g. Some results were higher than mine some lower. Potato toxins can be fatal to people. The Fda was notified of these tests and "felt there were no specific studies or data to show the effect on dogs . "According to a letter written by my state "Although there have not been studies conducted on dogs to know at what level it would become harmful it is known the levels that were found in 2 of these products are much higher than the levels humans would be able to tolerate."
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« Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 05:07:19 PM by yl »
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JJ
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« Reply #1253 on: November 07, 2007, 06:59:19 PM » |
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yl thx for potato info. So the food goes from melamine to toxic potatoes now. Why anyone would still use commercial dry food for a dog or cat right now is like asking for something to possibly harm your lil sweeties. Saw a post on the main page re: Orijen as being safe. Anyone know if this is the case might be able to use this but I stopped all kibble, dry food cause its just not fresh enough to feed an animal IMO.
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'Life isn't about how to survive the storm,
But how to dance in the rain.'
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catbird
Global Moderator
Hero Member
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Torti Goddess
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« Reply #1254 on: November 08, 2007, 06:32:50 AM » |
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JJ--some of us cat owners are stuck using dry kibble because we are not able to get our cats to eat anything else. Many cats are very, very hard to switch foods on, and will go on (possibly fatal) hunger strikes rather than eat a different food. For example, I had a whole thread up (lost in the crash) about my struggles to get my 11-year-old cat Phantom to eat wet foods, commercial or homemade. I have been trying to change Phantom's diet for 9 years!
This has been a particular problem for me with the rescue cats I have gotten as adults, whose eating habits were established by someone other than me.
Please understand that not all people feeding kibble are doing so by choice.
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Laurie
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« Reply #1255 on: November 08, 2007, 06:47:04 AM » |
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Agree with catbird that there are a few cats that just refuse to eat wet food. But I do believe that mostly all can be transitioned with a lot of persistance and patience. My 11 year old siamese would never touch wet food, now after over a year of transitioning, he really prefers the wet. Although I do not care for Fancy Feasts ingredients, I have found that if I add just a tiny bit to almost any canned food, they will scarf it up. Wish I would of known this trick over a year ago. Hate to think of all the food that was thrown out or given away because they would not eat it.  |
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DMS
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« Reply #1256 on: November 08, 2007, 08:47:35 AM » |
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Thank you, yl, for reposting this interesting results. Something for all of us to keep in mind. The symptoms of the poisoning in humans are very much like what one of my dogs suffered. Here is an unfortunate, but comprehensive article on chaconine and solanine experiments with animals and humans. I am a vegetarian; and I do apologize if the animal experiments listed offend anyone. I find them disturbing, but thought they may be a useful comparison. Also, the data on some accidental poisonings: http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v30je19.htm"Assuming an intake of 200 g potatoes and a bw of 40 kg (age = 11-14 years), the reviewers estimate that the intake of 'solanine' by the schoolboys would therefore have been approximately 1.4-1.6 mg/kg bw. Because of the small margin of safety between normal potatoes and toxic potatoes, the authors speculated that in toxic potatoes other toxic steroids besides glycoalkaloids may be synthesized, such as sapogenins and saponins, which might enhance the toxicity of solanine alkaloids by promoting gastro-intestinal absorption or other means (McMillan & Thompson, 1979)." Here are some of the symptoms; I highlighted the ones I observed in my dog earlier this year. I do not know what caused his illness, other than suspecting the food. This news from yl really makes me wonder, though. He also had liver damage and a temporary shut down of digestion, dehydration, drooling and staring, odd behavior, persistant hair loss and skin infections (hair loss is listed elsewhere on this link above): " acute gastrointestinal upset with diarrhoea, vomiting and severe abdominal pain. In more severe cases, neurological symptoms,
including drowsiness and apathy, confusion, weakness, and vision disturbances, followed by unconsciousness and, in some cases, death have also been reported. The vital signs include fever, rapid and weak pulse, low blood pressure and rapid respiration. {panting, in his case} " |
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« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 08:53:28 AM by DMS »
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None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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5CatMom
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« Reply #1257 on: November 09, 2007, 02:47:14 PM » |
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yl,
Thanks for reposting your potato toxin info. Can you tell us the name of the lab that did the testing?
5CatMom
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"What is man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected." Chief Seattle
"We are the caretakers of our creatures . . . the peacekeepers of our planet"
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JJ
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« Reply #1258 on: November 09, 2007, 10:29:00 PM » |
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catbird had no idea that cats won't eat wet food. Even if they are started out on it? I am allergic to cats but as a child I had a few as pets, one I even trained to sit, stay, sit up and was our mouse and rat catcher. I know people are not doing this by choice - there are no other options for those who need to use dry. Just read something about Honest Kitchen so maybe that would be safe as a dry food?
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'Life isn't about how to survive the storm,
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jenny
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« Reply #1259 on: November 10, 2007, 08:20:05 AM » |
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"Please understand that not all people feeding kibble are doing so by choice"
My IBD cat is one that just won't do wet food. After trying for 5 months we have given up for a while. He is now happily eating Hills prescription i/d - which would be my last choice for him but he is doing so well on it. We have tried numerous brands of canned food - he did eat some Innova canned for a while but we reduced his prednisolone and eventually that went. The remaining options to try are EVO 95 % meat and Avoderm Select chunks. I think there are ingredients in so many of the canned foods that he can't tolerate - yet he can tolerate the awful ingredients in dry food. My other two cats were transitioned to Wellness canned food in May and are doing fine - they lost a lot of excess weight which was good.
So, sometimes people feed dry kibble because they have to. And not all pets get drastically sick on the dry food. Wet is best for overall health but not always possible.
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