|
debsue
|
 |
« Reply #720 on: July 21, 2007, 01:15:09 PM » |
|
As I said, the above is totally unscientific but did demonstrate in hindsight that chunks dissolved in plain water, leaving only tiny light brown speckles in cloudy water so we know those white/cream chunks were not bone. Gave our microscope away decades ago. Now regretting that!
So if carolo's chunks dissolved and mine didn't, they must be different materials, right? With so many different variables, how do we get to the truth?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
yl
|
 |
« Reply #721 on: July 21, 2007, 01:25:26 PM » |
|
I appreciate hearing from the other people on this post. My dogs also had problems on California Natural produts. I think we need to keep seeking the truth . Does anyone know the route one takes in having samples tested for gmo's ? Can just any lab do the test do they have to be specialized?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
carolo
|
 |
« Reply #722 on: July 21, 2007, 02:07:44 PM » |
|
As I said, the above is totally unscientific but did demonstrate in hindsight that chunks dissolved in plain water, leaving only tiny light brown speckles in cloudy water so we know those white/cream chunks were not bone. Gave our microscope away decades ago. Now regretting that!
So if carolo's chunks dissolved and mine didn't, they must be different materials, right? With so many different variables, how do we get to the truth? The truth and nothing but the truth surely would be nice! Brought up this topic w/ my husband (for the umpteenth time) and he said just because the white/cream chunks/particles dissolved in our own little test doesn't necessarily indicate to him that it was not bone. It could have been ground bone that had stuck together but dissolved into nothing visible w/ naked eye in that glass of water. So we're still left not knowing much more than we started with, esp when even experiences of posters here vary. The only explanation for that is a q/c issue from batch to batch? I could be attending a large local dog show today, but here I sit at my computer. What's wrong w/ this picture!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
JanC
|
 |
« Reply #723 on: July 21, 2007, 02:12:46 PM » |
|
Jenny: The silent recalls that petslave was referring to were not the pet stores nor have I heard anything about Natura doing this. However, during the height of the recalls, there were many reports of people from the pf companies going into pf stores after hours, pulling everything off the shelves & replacing with different bags (these were brands that were never recalled which is why people started calling them "silent recalls"). A friend of mine told me that she heard an employee talking about it at one of the large pf stores, somebody who works at a large pf store said she witnessed the same thing at her store & there have been a lot of grumblings about silent recalls since March. I believe if a pf company got enough complaints, rather than recalling & smearing their name & opening themselves to lawsuits, they just snuck in & replaced the product with a new batch. I think it just goes to show how honorable these people are. 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare & love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made - - M. Acklam
If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went - - Will Rogers
|
|
|
|
shibadiva
|
 |
« Reply #724 on: July 21, 2007, 03:54:49 PM » |
|
Interesting about the silent recalls. One of the department stores near my office has a house brand with various flavours, and certain flavours (country stew) no longer show up on the shelves and it's been that way for at least a month. The house brand wasn't on the recall list.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history. ~~ Gandhi
|
|
|
|
HD
|
 |
« Reply #725 on: July 21, 2007, 05:07:37 PM » |
|
I just wanted to let you know, as a (ex?) Natura Retailer, I have not received any contact to switch bags out for fresh. This is not a post to stand by Natura. I pulled their food off my shelf on 7/4, the day I saw the original post. I have received less contact than some here. I would love to have positive feedback on these products. They have been very popular. Not anymore.
I also did the test where we soaked the kibble with contaminants. I too ended up with murky water, nasty smell and grit in the bottom of the cup. All this makes me just want to start my own petfood company. At least that way I can control the quality. Oh well, i can't afford that.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dingbat
|
 |
« Reply #726 on: July 21, 2007, 06:23:54 PM » |
|
So if carolo's chunks dissolved and mine didn't, they must be different materials, right? Debsue Not necessarily. Pretty sure that the lab wouldn't leave something overnight. Carolo's test was unscientific like she said, but the lab would most definitely do a scientific test, try to dissolve in acids, etc. this was in water overnight, that is somewhat different. What bothered me the most was the foul smell from sitting in plain water overnight. Obviously the dog knew there was something wrong with it and quite wisely refused to eat it. db 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
disclaimer: All comments above are my opinion, any reference to persons living or dead are purely coincidental, no claims are made to the verifiability of any statements that could be misconstrued as being verifiable.
|
|
|
|
carolo
|
 |
« Reply #727 on: July 21, 2007, 06:31:57 PM » |
|
I just wanted to let you know, as a (ex?) Natura Retailer, I have not received any contact to switch bags out for fresh. This is not a post to stand by Natura. I pulled their food off my shelf on 7/4, the day I saw the original post. I have received less contact than some here. I would love to have positive feedback on these products. They have been very popular. Not anymore.
I also did the test where we soaked the kibble with contaminants. I too ended up with murky water, nasty smell and grit in the bottom of the cup. All this makes me just want to start my own petfood company. At least that way I can control the quality. Oh well, i can't afford that.
HD, thx for joining in. Are you still a pet food retailer? I don't want to put you on the spot, but if you feel free to comment I'd like your take on the whole recall problem and do you think we wil 1. Ever know the truth? and 2. Ever have good reason to feel safe again when we feed commercial food w/out constant vigilance on our own part? (OK, I know that if I'm feeling "safe" that "constant vigilance" is not what I'd be doing...but I think you know what I mean. It's not a perfect world, I understand that. We take chances out for an evening walk, in the car, anywhere in life. This commercial pet food problem goes way beyond the usual chances we take.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Fuzzball
|
 |
« Reply #728 on: July 21, 2007, 06:42:24 PM » |
|
I just wanted to let you know, as a (ex?) Natura Retailer, I have not received any contact to switch bags out for fresh. This is not a post to stand by Natura. I pulled their food off my shelf on 7/4, the day I saw the original post. I have received less contact than some here. I would love to have positive feedback on these products. They have been very popular. Not anymore.
I also did the test where we soaked the kibble with contaminants. I too ended up with murky water, nasty smell and grit in the bottom of the cup. All this makes me just want to start my own petfood company. At least that way I can control the quality. Oh well, i can't afford that.
HD, thanks for posting this. It's always nice to see retailers that are on top of the recalls and really care about keeping their customers safe. Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
HD
|
 |
« Reply #729 on: July 21, 2007, 07:32:17 PM » |
|
Carolo I don't think this will ever be over. I have preached for years to not use food with glutens. I am not happy with what it took to get peoples attention. Some of the companies are right there for me with replies. Others are dragging their feet (not just Natura). I think we all look for ways to save money. Cheap! IS/WAS the way to go. Hopefully the pf companies have learned and will do right by us. There are still problems with foods. I see new people everyday with problems. They come looking for a better quality product. Most have been able to turn their animals around just by changing food. Although I feel uncomfortable about speaking about brands/problems, I will say go with your gut feeling. Listen to your animal, too. If they won't eat it, don't try to doctor the food up. Find something that they do like. I have heard so many people say their animal would not eat so they used this or that to make it more palatable. Only to find out that now their animals have serious problems. I recommend that if you have a problem with any food, contact the company. The companies need your input. They get tired of someone like me calling. I cannot answer the questions for you, the customer. They need to hear from you! The pf companies do not want to hear from me. I yell and will not stop until I am satified with the answer or the food goes out of my store. I could go on forever. But I would just bore you.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
PFR07PS
|
 |
« Reply #730 on: July 21, 2007, 08:44:38 PM » |
|
HD,
Thanks for posting your thoughts. I agree that people should contact the companies to explain their concerns, ask questions, etc.
One issue that I have discovered is that many of these types of calls are not logged in. We placed about 7 calls earlier this year, asking many questions each time, but never once were we asked any personal information. I wonder how they could possibly track any quality issues, out of stocks, complaints, illness, etc., without knowing who called and where they were located.
Donna
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
JJ
|
 |
« Reply #731 on: July 21, 2007, 11:00:58 PM » |
|
Expertox, with all their resources, couldn't get the black chunks from my sample to dissolve in solution
The clerk asked if I'd heard anything yet and said that Natura had called them "like 5 times" in the past week. She didn't know exactly what they called about, other than to find out if any other customers had complained.
debsue, So, if ExperTox could not get the black chunks in your sample to dissolve -- it really makes you wonder what actually is in those black chunks! There are still a lot of answers that have yet to be discovered. That's a very interesting comment regarding Natura calling stores. Seems very curious why a corporation would allocate such valuable resources of personnel and time to repeatedly call pet stores to determine if any other customers had complained. They have continually stated it was "only one complaint", so it makes you wonder why the sudden drive for information. I think any real answers to these questions are going to be discovered on our own. Donna We had those black and white chunks in our Karma (also a Natura product) and did our own very unscientific test on the Karma kibble. We put about 6 oz bottled water in a clear drinking glass. Put small amount of kibble in the water, which was room temp. Left overnight. Everything had dissolved. No stirring. The following morning (and this would be most likely some 9 hrs later) the water was just sort of cloudy and only very tiny specks of anything in it. None of the chunks/particles or colored specks that might've been part of those particles. This was in a way a relief, and it also would indicate to me that the white chunks were not bone (but not rice, either) but this glass of water/Karma had the foulest odor! I had done a sniff test on the dry kibble when Jake refused to eat it, and I did not detect any odor from the kibble. Jake the dog, otoh, must have, since he refused it w/out even one taste. We tried mixing it in w/ his California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato (both dry kibble, nothing added) and he would take his paw, somewhat cat-like, and sweep the kibble onto the kitchen floor. Then he would select only the Herring and Sweet Potato, leaving the Karma on the floor. As I said, the above is totally unscientific but did demonstrate in hindsight that chunks dissolved in plain water, leaving only tiny light brown speckles in cloudy water so we know those white/cream chunks were not bone. Gave our microscope away decades ago. Now regretting that! A person in the pet food industry suggested that the most probable explanation for Jake's sudden refusal to eat Karma when new bag was opened was that this bag had mold on/in food. Perhaps the same was true for the last bag of Karma biscuits that were not well received and hidden around the house. All this is just speculation and has to do w/ Karma and nothing to do as far as explaining the Innova results from ExperTox. Except for samples from our pet supply store, our Jake never had Innova...and those samples he did eat were almost a year ago. carolo I needed a jar that I had the little bit of Karma I am saving in case its needed later on. Upon removing it to a plastic bag I did smell it and it had a slight sour odor to it. Do not know if it being 95% organic and maybe time limit was up for it to be eaten as far as freshness but stopped feeding right after the post about the Innova by same company.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'Life isn't about how to survive the storm, But how to dance in the rain.'
|
|
|
|
kittylyda
|
 |
« Reply #732 on: July 22, 2007, 07:52:36 AM » |
|
I don't know if this is related to my cats eating Natura or not, but I thought I would share their latest test results.
During the recalls my 2 cats ate some of the tainted food. Since then they have been on fluid therapy and 3 months ago when I last got bloodwork done the younger cat had kidney levels back to normal and my old, ancient cat still had levels that were slightly elevated. Yesterday I got the results back for the most current round of bloodwork and my old kitty was about same, which is what I expected. However, younger kitty's kidney levels were still fine, but the test showed elevated liver levels. I understand if cats ingest some form of tylenol (don't feel like trying to spell the generic version) then the liver would be affected. I can't say for sure that this is do to the food (they were eating mostly canned Innova, Cal Nat & a bit of Innova dry), especially since old, frail kitty didn't have any liver troubles and they pretty much eat the same thing. Obviously this is very distressing to me as I thought my younger cat was kind of out of the woods. I don't think I would feed my cats a Natura product again, but I really would like to know if this latest development is due to the food that I fed them. Come on, Natura. I need some answers here. ~kittylyda
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Nabiya
|
 |
« Reply #733 on: July 22, 2007, 08:57:37 AM » |
|
I don't know if this is related to my cats eating Natura or not, but I thought I would share their latest test results.
During the recalls my 2 cats ate some of the tainted food. Since then they have been on fluid therapy and 3 months ago when I last got bloodwork done the younger cat had kidney levels back to normal and my old, ancient cat still had levels that were slightly elevated. Yesterday I got the results back for the most current round of bloodwork and my old kitty was about same, which is what I expected. However, younger kitty's kidney levels were still fine, but the test showed elevated liver levels. I understand if cats ingest some form of tylenol (don't feel like trying to spell the generic version) then the liver would be affected. I can't say for sure that this is do to the food (they were eating mostly canned Innova, Cal Nat & a bit of Innova dry), especially since old, frail kitty didn't have any liver troubles and they pretty much eat the same thing. Obviously this is very distressing to me as I thought my younger cat was kind of out of the woods. I don't think I would feed my cats a Natura product again, but I really would like to know if this latest development is due to the food that I fed them. Come on, Natura. I need some answers here. ~kittylyda
Elevated liver levels can sometimes indicate hyperthyroidism. I had a cat that was misdiagonosed as having liver failure and she was finally properly diagnosed at UC Davis. Did your vet check her thyroid values?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
kittylyda
|
 |
« Reply #734 on: July 22, 2007, 02:41:49 PM » |
|
Nabiya, Yes, my vet did check the thyroid values and so far they are fine. We are going to re-check everything again in a month after more twice weekly fluids and supplements.
Thanks for looking out for us. ~kittylyda
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|