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Author Topic: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's  (Read 17025 times)
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Brenton Weaver
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« Reply #240 on: May 15, 2008, 04:03:54 PM »

Ok, I was able to run a couple of things by Joel.

First question about our vitamin/mineral premix. We use a company called Trouw Nutrition for our premixes. We give them a custom formula that we have come up with, with the help of our customers, and they manufacture it for us. We are not entirely sure if all of their vitamins and minerals come from within the US. Our formula is compliant with FDA organic standards, and we use it in our organic foods that have the premix. Their products for companion animals are produced at their facility in Highland, IL. Their website is http://www.trouw-nutritionusa.com/

I know that some people here will want to know why we do not investigate every possible aspect of our foods, but sometimes you have to trust your suppliers. We trust that they provide us with exactly what they say they are providing us with. It’s the same as if you go to the grocery store. When you buy a piece of meat, you trust that the meat has passed FDA inspections. Any number of meats and vegetables can contain many different types of bacteria, and you have to trust that what you are buying is safe. We have a relationship like that with our suppliers because we trust them. We buy only from people that we know. The Evanger’s line uses almost all fresh ingredients. Our vitamin and mineral mix is not fresh, of course, and our venison, lamb, and mackerel come in frozen, but almost everything else is fresh from the Chicago markets.

To address the questions about our retort venting.

Our retorts are what we cook our food in. They are large steam chambers that we use to cook our cans in. The venting schedule refers to how long we vent the chamber between batches. The cans are placed into the chamber, then the retort is vented and filled with steam, and then the steam and chamber are heated to 247 degrees, our cooking temperature. We were using the schedule that was provided to us by the FDA, and it was also the manufacturer’s suggested schedule. We had to make a building modification and replaced one section of the exhaust pipe with an elbow joint. It passed building inspection, and there were no problems. The FDA wanted us to re-affirm our venting schedule with them since there was a modification to the original design. We have already re-affirmed the schedule with them.

Joel and his plant manager have both been to retort training. One of the two of them is always near the retorts. The FDA wants all employees working near them to have training, just in case, and we are sending any personnel that we believe might benefit from the classes to the training.

I know that there are other questions, and I will try to answer as many of them as I can as I have time

Thanks,
Brenton Weaver
Evanger’s Pet Foods
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martin
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« Reply #241 on: May 15, 2008, 04:17:32 PM »

Ok, I was able to run a couple of things by Joel.

First question about our vitamin/mineral premix. We use a company called Trouw Nutrition for our premixes.


China

With a head office in Beijing and factories in Beijing and Xiangtan, the Trouw Nutrition China Group has a solid base to aid the Chinese feed industry with the latest advanced animal nutrition products.


http://www.trouwnutrition.com/displaypage.asp?page_key=94
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Brenton Weaver
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« Reply #242 on: May 15, 2008, 04:28:41 PM »

If you read through the website in it's entirety, Trouw Nutrition is based in the Netherlands. They have head offices for countries in many locations. Many companies do business in China, and this one is not based there. Please do not take things out of context.

Respectfully,
Brenton Weaver
Evanger's Pet Foods
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PFR07PS
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« Reply #243 on: May 15, 2008, 04:37:43 PM »


Lesliek, I have never pointed my finger at you, and I have stated that on more than one occasion. We did, in fact, have someone who made the threats that I mentioned, and did, in fact, try to blackmail us for far, far greater costs than any vet bill/testing would ever cost. As I stated earlier, unless you made those threats, then you are not the individual that mentioned.


Mr. Weaver,

Having been through a similar experience as LeslieK, with another company, I understand her concerns regarding the comments you have made in this thread.  They are, at the very least, unclear. 

Quote

“so unless you demanded that of us, that person would not be you.”

 “unless you made those threats, then you are not the individual that mentioned”



You have asked forum members to be specific in their requests for suggested testing.  I would ask that you be specific in addressing this allegation.  If LeslieK is not the person you are referencing in regard to “an extortion attempt” then state that clearly so there is absolutely no doubt for any of us, especially LeslieK.  Extortion is a serious allegation. I would not want to see the uncertainty of your comments harm or disparage LeslieK’s reputation if she is not the person in question.  Furthermore, I certainly hope this allegation is not being used as a means to bully, threaten or invoke fear in other pet owners on this forum. 

(Edited to add:)  I think you and your company owe an apology to LeslieK if you cannot substantiate this allegation. 

Donna C
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 06:06:27 PM by PFR07PS » Logged
martin
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« Reply #244 on: May 15, 2008, 04:37:52 PM »

How about testing for Selenium


WEEK ENDING JANUARY 19

 http://www.recalls.org/vet2002.html

PRODUCT Optimin Water Soluble Selenium Powder, elemental Selenium 0.5%, in 25 kg paper bags and 1 kg foil pouches.  

CODE Product code 09611411 - 25 kg. Bag; Product code 09611402 - 1 kg. Bag All lots of both sizes

RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER Recalling Firm:  Trouw Nutrition USA, L.L.C. Highland, IL

Manufacturer:  Trouw Nutrition USA, L.L.C. Willmar, MN.

REASON Selenium is unapproved for use in animal drinking water

VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE 204 - 25 kg bags

DISTRIBUTION Minnesota, Florida, North Dakota and New Zealand

Health Buzz: Toxic Pets and Other Health News
Posted April 21, 2008

 Testing Finds Many Toxic Chemicals in Cats and Dogs

Your pet may be regularly exposed to toxic chemicals--at levels higher than those found in humans, according to a new study by the Environmental Working Group, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit research organization. Cats and dogs tested positive for 48 of 70 industrial chemicals--43 of which were found to be at higher levels than typically found in people. For example, dogs had levels 2.4 times as high of perfluorochemicals, which are used to make stain- and greaseproof coatings, and cats had 23 times as many flame retardants, compared with the average levels of these chemicals found in humans. "This study shows that our pets are susceptible to the absorption of potentially harmful chemicals from our environment, just as we are," said John Billeter, the veterinarian who conducted blood and urine tests on the pets. "Perhaps even more troubling is that these chemicals have been found in higher levels in pets than in humans, implying potential harmful consequences for their health and well-being."

The Environmental Working Group offers tips for reducing your pet's exposure to harmful chemicals.

Harmful Selenium Supplements Being Probed

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating more than 180 cases of illness in people who took a dietary supplement containing potentially harmful levels of selenium, according to the Associated Press. Testing of certain formulations of "Total Body Formula" and "Total Body Mega Formula" supplements found hazardous levels of selenium, more than 200 times the amount per serving stated on the label of the products, the CDC reports. The manufacturer, Total Body Essential Nutrition, voluntarily recalled the products in March. But the increasing number of illness reports may mean that people are still taking the supplement; the Food and Drug Administration had received only 43 reports of people falling ill by April 9. Adverse reactions to the supplement--which generally occur within 10 days of taking the product--include significant hair loss, diarrhea, joint pain, muscle cramps, deformed fingernails, and fatigue.

http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/2008/04/21/health-buzz-toxic-pets-and-other-health-news.html

 
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Sandi K
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« Reply #245 on: May 15, 2008, 05:10:23 PM »

Mr Weaver,  there are pet food companies currently testing for lots of things and one of them is Natural Balance.  While I would like to see them go even further in what they are testing for, their company does seem open to suggestions and input from pet parents.  So your company might want to look at Natural Balances website and public relations stance for further info, they have alot of info there for everyone to see.  No, I dont work for them and I dont use their product. 

I agree with Donna's statement.  Your response to LeslieK leaves alot of room for inference to say the least.  You know her name and you would well know if this is the person you are referring to in your claims of extortion so for you to not just say upfront whether you are referring to her is, to me, intimidation and doesnt go far in solving any issues.   As for testing, I would like to see Evangers testing the same food of Leslie K's that the lab found high levels of copper in and post those results publicly.  Test ideas suggested by Offly and others sound very good too.  Other tests I would like to see are for melamine, cyanuric acid, aminopterin and acetaminophen.  So perhaps you can run this by Mr Sher to see if he would be willing to do this?  Here are the links to Natural Balance and the page that explains more of their testing protocol.   

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/

ABOUT OUR TESTING

Who is Testing Our Pet Food?

Midwest Laboratories: Midwest Laboratories in Omaha, NE is an independent laboratory highly skilled at testing for contaminants. Starting as a testing facility for agricultural analysis of soil, plant tissue and feeds, Midwest has expanded into pesticide analysis, water analysis and microbiological analysis for food, pet food, fertilizer, nematodes, biosolids, petroleum, and hazardous waste.Their chemists, biologists and environmental scientists are able to address new analytical challenges with the latest instruments and methods of testing.

NB Laboratories: Natural Balance has hired Research Biochemist, Dr. Ali Haghighi (left) to create the protocols at NB Laboratories for Melamine and Cyanuric Acid Testing, as well as oversee all lab testing procedures.

Dr. Haghighi received his Ph.D. in Biochemistry at Cleveland State
University. He is also a professor of sciences in Surgical Technology, and teaches Medical Assistant Certification for the State of California. He also has certification as a criminalist from the California Justice Department. Dr. Haghighi has developed an ELISA-based diagnostic assay for Polygenetics, Co., using Cavilink polymers.

NB Laboratories has also hired Quality Control Chemist, Roummel (Rome) Ruvolo (right). Mr. Ruvolo has earned his Bachelor of Science in Pharmacy and has been working in the biotechnology field for over two years. His chief research is based on Bio-inspired Oxygen and Light-driven Homogenous Catalysts. It is his responsibility to implement the testing procedures developed by Dr. Haghighi.

Our standard testing protocol includes testing for Aflatoxin and DON (Vomitoxin). As of December, 2007, we have added screening for Ochratoxin, Zearalenone (ZEA), and Fumonisin. Stringent research, development and quality control practices have led to proven reliability and consistency of our tests. The accuracy and reproducibility of these testing protocols have inspired wide acceptance and use throughout the food industry. These tests have also earned official approvals and third party validations, including:

• AOAC International
• AOAC Research Institute
• IUPAC
• USDA/GIPSA (FGIS)
• USDA/FSIS

We have also added testing for Melamine and Cyanuric acid to our protocol. For months these tests were being done through an independent laboratory, and since October we have started testing for Melamine and Cyanuric Acid in our own Laboratory, using a Mass Spectrometer, which is used at many major Universities.
 
What kinds of Test Methods are being used? (Click HERE to learn about the Toxins we test for.)

Testing for Aflatoxin/DON (Vomitoxin):
 
 
ELISA Test
NB Laboratories and Midwest Labs, our independent laboratory, use ELISA tests for Aflatoxin, DON (Vomitoxin),Ochratoxin, Zearalone (ZEA), and Fumonisin. ELISA tests are quantitative tests that compare up to 19 samples at a time against test controls. Through the use of a microwell reader, the tests provide accurate sample results in parts per million (for Aflotoxin) or parts per billion (for Vomitoxin). Performing an ELISA involves at least one antibody with specificity for a particular antigen. The sample with an unknown amount of antigen is immobilized on a solid support (usually a polystyrene microtiter plate) either non-specifically (via adsorption to the surface) or specifically (via capture by another antibody specific to the same antigen, in a "sandwich" ELISA). After the antigen is immobilized the detection antibody is added, forming a complex with the antigen. The detection antibody can be covalently linked to an enzyme, or can itself be detected by a secondary antibody which is linked to an enzyme through bioconjugation. Between each step the plate is typically washed with a mild detergent solution to remove any proteins or antibodies that are not specifically bound. After the final wash step the plate is developed by adding an enzymatic substrate to produce a visible signal, which indicates the quantity of antigen in the sample. The Enzyme ImmunoAssay (EIA) is a synonym for the ELISA.

Testing for Melamine/Cyanuric Acid: Traditional crude protein and non-protein nitrogen tests are not melamine specific. The possibility of new kinds of protein tests which will be able to separate natural protein from added nitrogen is still being explored, but they have yet to be implemented in standard protein testing. Midwest Labs, our independent laboratory, uses two different methods to detect Melamine and Cyanuric Acid. One is Liquid Chromatography Mass Spectrometry (LC/MS) and the second is Gas Chromatograph fitted with a Nitrogen-Phosphorus Detector (GC/NPD). NB Laboratories uses Spectrophotometric testing. Details on each method are below.

Liquid Chromatography (LC):
Chromatography studies the separation of molecules based on differences in their structure and/or composition. The most common technique is Liquid Chromatography, which is used to separate the target molecule from undesired contaminants, as well as to analyze the final product for the requisite purity established with governmental regulatory groups (such as the FDA).

Mass Spectrometry (MS):
Mass spectrometry is a powerful analytical technique that is used to extract the structure and chemical properties of molecules to identify known and unknown compunds. Compounds can be identified at very low concentrations in chemically complex mixtures. LC/MS is a powerful combination for tests requiring the most thorough chemical analysis.

Gas Chromatograph fitted with a Nitrogen-Phosphorus Detector (GC/NPD):
This instrument and method is very accurate, with the ability to detect melamine at very low levels (10 part per million). The instrument is set up with dual NP detectors and the GC is fitted with two different GC columns. Both columns must detect melamine and deviate less than 5% from each other for a sample to be confirmed as containing melamine.

Spectrophotometric Testing:
Spectrophotometry involves the use of a spectrophotometer, which can measure intensity as a function of the color, or more specifically, the wavelength of light in a compound. This method of chemical analysis based on the absorption by matter of electromagnetic radiation of a specified wavelength or frequency.The radiation interacts with specific features of the molecular species being determined, such as the vibrational or rotational motions of the chemical bonds. Using UV-microscopy, absorbance spectra of melamine can be detected.
 
 
NOTE: We do not conduct laboratory testing on animals, whatsoever. All of our testing at NB Laboratories is on food analysis only.
 







 


« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 06:18:59 PM by Sandi K » Logged
3catkidneyfailure
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« Reply #246 on: May 15, 2008, 05:20:11 PM »

Mr. Weaver, just asking a question. Both 5CatMom and I have had trouble finding vitamins, minerals
made in the U.S. with U.S. ingredients for home-cooking. So if the products are supplied from outside
U.S. sources, including China, which is where much of it comes from these global economy days, has any type
of inspection occurred of the production facilities at all? Are there any certifications Evangers has asked
for from the originating-outside-the-U.S. supplier, whether that be the Netherlands or China? Even though the company
is buying from an Illinois supplier, what questions has Evangers asked that supplier about its sources regarding inspections
and certifications by any government standards agency?

This is where Menu Foods and ChemNutra ran into trouble on wheat gluten spiked with melamine in 2007. No one was asking questions of its suppliers or testing what it was getting. Does Evangers test what it actually gets in any way?

These are all points in using suppliers from foreign sources with standards differing drastically from the United States when the problems which led to 2007's recalls could have been intercepted and prevented if suppliers were asking questions of each other or testing products actually received before use. The you have to trust your suppliers works if all the suppliers are sourced
within one nation and functioning under the same code. Chinese exporters have come up with some creative ways to avoid Chinese
government inspection by altering export product numbers on bills of lading in the ChemNutra case. If no inspection of what is received is done by U.S. manufacturers before use, that's what makes for such awful problems as the pet food recalls of 2007 and the lethal heparin product produced by a U.S. drug manufacturer in the early part of this year.

The cost savings on foreign imports apparently are good. But part of what seems to lower those costs is a lack of quality control and
inspection which apparently is going to have to be undertaken by the U.S. manufacturers who buy them. That's why I'm thinking
Evangers needs to test what it actually receives to make sure its what it purports to be before use in its product.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 05:32:51 PM by 3catkidneyfailure » Logged
Brenton Weaver
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« Reply #247 on: May 15, 2008, 05:21:21 PM »

There have been some great suggestions here for things to test for so far. I would, however, like a few more responses. We will look at all suggestions here and let everyone know what we think. Please know that this is not a one day process. We may look at this for a few days, maybe longer, before we decide on a group of tests. I will update this thread with any new developments on our end.

We currently do three types of testing on our products. The first test is a sterility test. This test involves the product being incubated for a period of 3 days at a set temperature to see if there is any bacteria in the product. The second test is a moisture test. This insures that the product is within the moisture limitations that we have. The third test is called a proximate test. This test tests basically tests for all vitamin/mineral counts in our products. This test is conducted randomly. We have never found a problem in any of the products that we have made.

The US and EU only require that we do the sterility test. We do the other tests here to ensure quality.
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3catkidneyfailure
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« Reply #248 on: May 15, 2008, 05:24:55 PM »

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/GCMSMelamine.htm
"GC-MS Screen for the Presence of Melamine, Ammeline, Ammelide and Cyanuric Acid
(Version 2.1)

I need help here in suggesting the SUL levels for each of these chemicals. So SUL levels
for melamine, ammeline, ammelide, and cyanuric acid need to be supplied. The Safe Upper
Limit for melamine on a UC Davis test I had run in May 2007 was 0.5 ppm. Is that still true?
Or is there a safe amount of any of them in current thinking? I don't know.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 06:02:15 PM by 3catkidneyfailure » Logged
5CatMom
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« Reply #249 on: May 15, 2008, 06:15:08 PM »

Please test for mycotoxins.

These would be:

aflatoxins, zearalenone (ZON), deoxynivalenol (DON), fumonisin (Fum), T2 toxin and ochratoxin A (OTA).

"Aflatoxin in feed can poison livestock if enough is consumed. Lower concentrations can produce residues in milk and meat."

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/xchg/dpi/hs.xsl/4790_4907_ENA_HTML.htm


5CatMom
=^..^=
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 07:29:46 PM by 5CatMom » Logged
5CatMom
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« Reply #250 on: May 15, 2008, 06:17:18 PM »

Please test for dioxin.

The stuff's in everything, nowadays.

5CatMom
= ^..^=
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kb
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« Reply #251 on: May 15, 2008, 06:40:35 PM »

While I know every single batch can't be tested for every single possibility, here are some of the tests I'd like to see:
-melamine - on products containing rice flour
-mycotoxins - there are several different kinds of these - on products containing grain (rice, oatmeal, barley)
-potato toxins - on products containing potato
-salmonella
-botulism - in light of the FDA notice
-acetaminophen
If the same vitamin pre-mix is used in all products, maybe a test of that pre-mix that it meets expected levels and for unkown toxins.  

As a BTW for forum members, I emailed Natural Balance about 2 weeks ago about any plans for adding tests for potato toxins and I haven't heard anything back.  Not impressed.  
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Brenton Weaver
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« Reply #252 on: May 15, 2008, 06:46:02 PM »

3catkidneyfailure, the only test that would cover your concerned areas is our proximate test. This test does cover a broad range of items, but I will have to contact Joel again later to get the specifics. Trouw has always provided us with what we need, and has worked with us to produce our custom premix. Our premix has changed over time, and we have been able to get them to change a few of our vitamin sources to naturally produced sources, instead of synthetically obtained sources. As stated earlier, we will look at all postings here and consider each request.

Thank you for your inquiry
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martin
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« Reply #253 on: May 15, 2008, 06:48:19 PM »

Mr. Weaver,
If you are 100% confident that your products are safe then you wouldn't have a problem with this suggestion.

1) Designate a 3rd party from this forum to personally have your foods tested.  Sealed and unopened bags and cans will be purchased & tested at your expense.

2) This forum will choose what to test for and what laboratories are used.

3) Allow your results to be posted on this board.

This is the only way anyone will believe the results are accurate.  IMO, If you are not comfortable with this then you are not 100% confident that your food is safe.  


 
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Brenton Weaver
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« Reply #254 on: May 15, 2008, 06:51:05 PM »

kb, our standard sterility test covers botulism. The process involves storing the product in an isolated container for 3 days at the temperature that bacteria, like botulism, grows best in (95 degrees to be exact). We test every single batch for this, and every test has come back negative. If you have further questions about this test, please contact Joel Sher in our office, he knows more about this test than I do.
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