I love you guys!

Catbird:  Thank you for the reassurance --  I really don't know how much hyper-T cats vomit... just heard that they do and that unlike CRF cats, the vomit is usually food (CRF vomits clear foamy liquid).  Is Phantom OK now?

And yes - the times that he vomitted the raw, he rather "scarfed" his food down and also, maybe the fact that I topped the raw with a little tuna may have been a bit much.  After he barfed those 3 times, he immediately wanted to eat again and I end up giving him something bland like cooked chicken.  Then he's happy again.

Steve:  I admit it!  I am somewhat of a hypochondriac!  ha ha ha ha... you should see my fridge and all the supplements I have in there!

JustMe:  Yes, cats on raw drink water... more like "sipping" - i.e., anywhere between 10mls - 30mls at a time.  It could be one or two times during the day... some days, you won't see them drink at all.

When we try to feed and treat our cats like we humans do ourselves we start asking for trouble.

Cats do fine on a simple balanced diet. They don't need snacks, treats, cakes, cookies, etc, etc.  Or a different "flavor" everyday. (Madison Avenue works hard to convince us they want and need that though. And we take the bait.)

Every cat has it's own unique needs and it takes work and dedication to find just the right balance-system-routine.

Cats live long healthy lives on one lifelong brand-flavor all the time. They aren't thinking . . . .

"What in the h*ll is this? I want, demand, sautéed' slivers of duckling, a side of cranberry, vegetables ala carte, and chocolate soufflé for lunch! All served on the finest imported ceramic finery!!

LOL. Were deluding ourselves if we believe that.

Steve,

maybe you want to explain that to my cats because they will boycott the food bowl till it gets filledw ith what they want sometimes it takes 3 trys, so i beg to differ with you opinion.  Cats do know what they want at least mine do.

Steve:  I do agree with you that "less is better" and that a cat requires simplicity and purity as far as food goes.  However, we are now discovering, bit by bit, that the so called "balanced" meal formulations of many catfoods are not "balanced" nor wholesome at all.  Take the recent discovery that some of the Evangers' line at least has too much copper and an older study from Germany of the widely fluctuating iodine levels in almost 50 brands of catfoods - some way under the recommended allowance and some as much as 70% greater than the recommended allowance. Now if you happen to be feeding your cat one of these horribly unbalanced meals day in day out, IMHO, you're askng for trouble a few months or years down the road.  While food formulation should be simple and pure, I do believe in offering variety in protein source if at all possible (some cats have allergies and this naturally limits what they can eat).  Even cats in the wild will have some variety: rodents, birds, lizards and even bugs! Having said that. I also beleive that TOO MUCH variety can spell trouble, as you've pointed out. 

To each his own.   
 
My cats seem to be the odd balls.  They enjoy variety, different protein sources.  We tried 100% quail a few weeks ago, and they liked it.  It was tasty.  They get chicken, turkey, venison, duck, rabbit, occasional beef, quail, seafood.  We don't have "finicky" issues.  These cats went from eating 2 different dry foods for years to occasional canned food for years straight to canned food.  The only one who required a short transition was the one who was 17 at the time and was on kitty krack.  They rarely get the same protein sources twice in a row. 

I also don't want to feed them the same protein/brand on a daily basis in case there is a problem with the food, hoping to minimize any possible impact and also have them acceptable of protein changes if I can't get their regular food.  Like turkey.  Sometimes the feed store doesn't have the turkey we use for weeks on end, it is such a big seller for them.   Also starting to occasionally cook for them.  That will be mostly chicken since I don't have access to variety currently.

I'll admit I am becoming somewhat of a Helicopter Pet Parent.

But I'm working on it.

I'd been looking at stuff in Toxnet for "projectile vomiting".
http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/

*One thing was the PH changes - "The mechanism for the dose-dumping is likely to be the pH change in the duodenum that occurs in response to food, since the coating on the beads rapidly dissolves at pH 7.4. "

That's the take with food, don't take on an empty stomach kind of scenario.

Inserted:   http://www.fda.gov/ora/inspect_ref/igs/lacfpt2/lacfpt206.html

"The lacf regulations, 21 CFR Part 113.81 (e), provide for acids to be added to lacf products to reduce the pH of the product to a level which is still above 4.6 but at a level which aids in the destruction of microorganisms. This can result in thermal processes which provide a safe product with a reduced thermal process time and/or temperature. These types of processes are normally designed to provide for the thermal processing of lacf foods which would be destroyed by a normal thermal process; or to provide thermal processes for foods to gain what is perceived to be a better quality product with less loss of nutrients. Where the addition of acids are used in conjunction with the thermal process, there is a need for careful control and monitoring of the pH of the product during production as well as the equilibrium pH of the product. The firms production records must reflect that the pH is being controlled. Procedures used for determining the pH of acidified low-acid canned foods may be followed."

*Another from the Bad Bug Book http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/intro.html


http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap12.html

"Recent investigations suggest that the vomiting type toxin can be detected by animal models (cats, monkeys) or possibly by cell culture."

That seems to imply that cats can vomit in response to "something not good" in their foods.... and most of us can vouch that with a cat, vomiting can be an early warning system, and also can be hairballs, meds, etc. -

Here's the list results for "projectile vomiting" search at Toxnet - a word of caution, you pretty much have to follow the links to see "projectile vomiting" in context of what they were looking at/were using:

1 ARSENIC COMPOUNDS
NO CAS RN
2 DIMETHYLARSENIC ACID
75-60-5
3 ARSENIC TRIIODIDE
7784-45-4
4 ARSENIC TRIFLUORIDE
7784-35-2
5 ETHYLDICHLOROARSINE
598-14-1
6 LONDON PURPLE
8012-74-6
7 ARSENIC TRISULFIDE
1303-33-9
8 ARSENIC ACID
7778-39-4
9 ARSANILIC ACID
98-50-0
10 FERRIC ARSENATE
10102-49-5
11 FERROUS ARSENATE
10102-50-8
12 ARSENIC, ELEMENTAL
7440-38-2
13 MAGNESIUM ARSENATE
10103-50-1
14 ARSENIC TRIBROMIDE
7784-33-0
15 SODIUM METHANEARSONATE
2163-80-6
16 METHANEARSONIC ACID
124-58-3
17 POTASSIUM ARSENATE
7784-41-0
18 LEAD ARSENATE
7784-40-9
19 DISODIUM METHANEARSONATE
144-21-8
20 STRONTIUM ARSENITE TETRAHYDRATE
10378-48-0
21 IRON CACODYLATE
5968-84-3
22 COPPER(II) ARSENITE
10290-12-7
23 3-NITRO-4-HYDROXYPHENYLARSONIC ACID
121-19-7
24 SODIUM ARSANILATE
127-85-5
25 DIETHYLARSINE
692-42-2
26 ARSENIC TRIOXIDE
1327-53-3
27 DOMOIC ACID
14277-97-5
28 CALCIUM ARSENITE
52740-16-6

I'm thinking the vomiting toxin. They wouldn't check for that as quickly as they would for the 1-28 list of toxins...?

From the Bad Bug Book:

"Confirmation of B. cereus as the etiologic agent in a foodborne outbreak requires either (1) isolation of strains of the same serotype from the suspect food and feces or vomitus of the patient, (2) isolation of large numbers of a B. cereus serotype known to cause foodborne illness from the suspect food or from the feces or vomitus of the patient, or (3) isolation of B. cereus from suspect foods and determining their enterotoxigenicity by serological (diarrheal toxin) or biological (diarrheal and emetic) tests. The rapid onset time to symptoms in the emetic form of disease, coupled with some food evidence, is often sufficient to diagnose this type of food poisoning.
   
5. Associated Foods: A wide variety of foods including meats, milk, vegetables, and fish have been associated with the diarrheal type food poisoning. The vomiting-type outbreaks have generally been associated with rice products; however, other starchy foods such as potato, pasta and cheese products have also been implicated. Food mixtures such as sauces, puddings, soups, casseroles, pastries, and salads have frequently been incriminated in food poisoning outbreaks.


Another reference:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=649&S=1&SourceID=30

"This toxin is produced by Fusarium bacteria growing in grain, especially wheat and barley. This toxin is also heat stable. Because of this toxin, the FDA has established a guideline that the grain and grain by-product composition of pet food should never exceed 40% thus restricting the amount of toxin that could be present in food. The FDA's advisory level of this toxin is 5 parts per million in pet food though many dogs can detect this toxin in amounts as low as 2 parts per million. In 1995, it was the presence of vomitoxin in contaminated grains that led to the recall of 16,000 tons of Nature's Recipe dog food and created much embarrassment for this company.

So, projectile vomit(and since hopefully are eating less grains now) means the starchy ingredients.. mentioned above might be at issue..  Especially since they are heat stable..

Looks like no grains is good for more than nutritional reasons.. lowers the number and perhaps severity of toxins/pesticides associated with grains.

However, some of them are in the organ meats of livestock, so meat & dairy can't be totally ruled out as a source.

CVM re: mycotoxins:  http://www.fda.gov/cvm/fdaaustintx823.htm
Action Level:  http://www.fda.gov/ora/compliance_ref/cpg/cpgvet/cpg683-100.html
Guidance Level: http://www.fda.gov/cvm/fumonisin.htm
Advisor Vomitoxin(DON): http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/graingui.html