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Author Topic: Kaffe Kooks: CRF/CRI Phosphorus/Protein Load of Various Home-made Recipes  (Read 51609 times)
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petslave
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2008, 09:09:27 PM »

Oh, YUMMY!!  We can't wait to try our new recipe!!  Now if we can only get that woman to cook it up for us, but first she has to go buy ingredients tomorrow.  She's so slow sometimes.

Thanks millions, Kaffe - this looks like a recipe a CRF sister & non-CRF brother can share, side by side!

purrrrrrrrrrrr, from Tessa & Tony
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kaffe
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2008, 10:00:34 PM »

Oh... silly Meowmie... forgot to say that by DM (Dry matter), the CRF group recommed a phosphorus level of under 1%... below 0.5% is said to be ideal for full-blown CRF/CRI.  The calculations supplied here are dry matter since the H2O is not taken into account (that's why even if we have 450 grams of chicken, we end up with only 150g or so of protein - the rest is fat, carb, fiber, ash [minerals] and water).

Here's a real quick and easy and smelly recipe one can make on those finicky-CRF-kitty days.  It is NOT a balanced meal, but more of a "snak" or quick picker-upper.


Tuna and Rice Quickie
(Not a balanced meal)

100g      Canned Light Tuna w/o salt in water
50g         White rice (uncooked weight)
¼ tsp     Ground Eggshell

Calories: 315
Pro: 29.95g
Fat: 2.75g
Carb: 39.6g
Fiber: 5.5g
Ash:  1.85g
Total:  75.5g x 1000 = 75,500mg
Phosphorus:  314.5mg  /  75,500  x  100%  = 0.4165%
Protein:  29.95  /  75.5  x 100%  = 39.668%

Sodium: 50.5mg
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JustMe
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My RB Angels Elvis, 1991-2010, and Twit, 2001-2010


« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2008, 04:42:57 AM »

More recipes.  How wonderful of you, Kaffe!   Cato and Kaffe are very lucky boys Kiss

petslave,

Tessa and Tony are adorable.   Kiss
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Eventually they will understand,
Replied the glorious cat
For I will whisper into their hearts
That I am always with them
I just am....forever and ever and ever.
Poem for Cats, author unknown

"A kitten in the animal kingdom is like a rosebud in a garden", author unknown
petslave
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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2008, 06:40:34 AM »

2nd try on sending this post, darn computer

kaffe - would salmon work in the quick finicky recipe, or is it too salty?  Thanks for the vitamin A info - I didn't think about forms they could use.  It's the same with the omegas in flaxseed vs. salmon oil for both dogs & cats - they can't use the form in flaxseed oil but they can in the fish oil.

here's another pic of T & T dreaming of their new meals.


* tess n tony 3.JPG (103.81 KB, 800x577 - viewed 404 times.)
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catbird
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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2008, 07:21:13 AM »

off-topic, but

Tess and Tony are so cute!
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petslave
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« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2008, 08:29:17 AM »

thanks, we think we're cute too! 
    t & t
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kaffe
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« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2008, 10:27:27 AM »

2nd try on sending this post, darn computer

kaffe - would salmon work in the quick finicky recipe, or is it too salty?  Thanks for the vitamin A info - I didn't think about forms they could use.  It's the same with the omegas in flaxseed vs. salmon oil for both dogs & cats - they can't use the form in flaxseed oil but they can in the fish oil.

here's another pic of T & T dreaming of their new meals.

YES!  Canned salmon or canned sardnes will also work in the "quick-fire" recipe...  just try to find ones with no salt added or if the sodium on can label exceeds 200mg, just wash in water once using a strainer.

Hint:  Sardines is a little higher in phosphorus than either salmon or tuna but... You can add a pinch of ground eggshell in a meal and the calcium carbonate in it acts like a phosphorus binder
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 10:31:31 AM by kaffe » Logged
catwoods
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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2008, 12:28:55 PM »

Also off topic, I too enjoyed the photos of Elvis, Tess, and Tony!
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kaffe
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« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2008, 08:32:07 PM »

Meowmie just tried this recipe with us... and... it was yummy!!!  Of coarse Cato would like it becuase it has beef and peas!  Me?  I like fish better, but Meowmie says, "Only once in a while... this is better for you."  Yeah -right (I'm not a kidney kitty... yet...  Lips sealed). 

Ground Beef with Kidney Beans and Peas
(a cooked and grainless recipe)

300 g      Lean ground beef, cooked (you can use ground turkey or chicken)
100 g      Red Kidney beans, cooked weight
100 g      Green peas, cooked weight
1/2 tsp      Eggshell powder (heaped)
1/8 tsp      Potassium Chloride (salt substitute) or iodized salt (skip if kitty is
                        hypertensive)
[edit:  there is some question as to the suitability of potassium chloride in a kidney cat's diet - may contribute to metabolic acidosis to which kidney cats are prone]

1 cap      B-50 Vitamin B-Complex (or equivalent)
Vit A&D supplement (8,000-10,000IU Vit A, 200-400IU Vit D)
Vit E 100IU supplement (mixed tocopherols or d-alpha tocopherol)
1000-2000mg  Salmon Oil

Cal:Phos Ratio -  1.5 : 1

1.   Cook ground beef lightly either in pot or pan... strain out extra oil.
2.   Soak kidney beans overnight then boil them in enough water until tender.  When done, add frozen green peas to the beans and allow to cook together for another 5 mins.
3.   Blend meat and legumes together in a food processor or blender – use a little water to process well.
4.   Add all supplements and mix well.

Calories: 1027
Protein:  86.9g
Fat:  57.7g
Carb:  36.7g
Fiber:  5.5g
Ash: 5.5g
Total:  192.3 x 1000 = 192,300mg
Phosphorus:  704mg  / 192,300  x 100%  = 0.36609%
Protein:  86.9  /  192.3  x 100%  = 45.1898%

Several recent studies have shown that the inclusion of fermentable fiber in the diet of kidney patients could reduce their BUN and creatinine numbers.  For example:

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/125/4/1010


It appears that fermentable fiber encourage the growth of certain beneficial gut bacteria which feed on nitrogenous waste products in the gut.  So, instead of these N products being processed by the kidneys, and excreted in the urine or resorbed in the blood, they are processed in the gut and excreted through feces ... kind of a like a gut-dialysis.    Kidney beans and peas are both fermentable fibers and quite palatable to cats.  We should go easy on these legumes however, because both contain phosphorus and may incline a susceptible kitty to some gas (so “they” say, although I have not personally seen “gas” episodes in my cats!)   

EDIT:  Additional Note:

Make sure you handle and cook the kidney beans properly.  Beans should NEVER be undercooked.  The following procedure has been recommended by the Public Health Laboratory Services to render kidney, and other, beans safe for consumption:

1.  Soak kidney beans in water for at least 5 hours.
2.  After, Pour away the water.
3.  Boil briskly in fresh water for at least 10 minutes (I boil for at least 1 hour)
4.  Undercooked beans may be more toxic than raw beans.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 01:32:55 AM by kaffe » Logged
JustMe
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My RB Angels Elvis, 1991-2010, and Twit, 2001-2010


« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2008, 03:02:38 PM »

This is a recipe I made for darling Elvis - the KING of JustMe's household, who, BTW, is NOT exactly a kidney cat... he just commissioned Kaffe Kooks to run a recipe for his Majesticness - just in case (kings... tou know?)




Elvis the King's Renal Recipe

Elvis, the King, will now be sharing his feast with our second oldest, Davey.  As we have suspected, Davey now has joined Elvis with slightly increased kidney values. 



We all thank Kaffe very much for such yumminess.  Elvis surprisingly has lost 3 pounds, and we need to put that weight back on him.
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Eventually they will understand,
Replied the glorious cat
For I will whisper into their hearts
That I am always with them
I just am....forever and ever and ever.
Poem for Cats, author unknown

"A kitten in the animal kingdom is like a rosebud in a garden", author unknown
kaffe
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« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2008, 02:18:38 AM »

Oh --- so very sorry to hear about your kidneys, Davey!  But with proper care and good diet, I am certain you'll live out your full 9-Lives, pal.  Just make sure you drink lotsa water-water.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 02:38:21 AM by kaffe » Logged
petslave
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« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2008, 04:02:59 PM »

OK, tomorrow is supplement shopping day.  I've been putting it off but can't anymore.  I took Tessa in yesterday to have her eye looked at (scratch on cornea) and had them do bloodwork on her.  It's been almost a year since she was last tested.  Her numbers haven't changed at all, which surprised me because she acts really well - BUN is 43 & Creatnine is 3.2). 

Vet said I should put her on KD diet, don't think that will happen anytime soon so time to dive into cooking.  Hopefully it will save me some money too - it cost me $200 for this months supply of Wellness last weekend!

So recipe questions for kaffe please:

on the B vitamins - it looks like B-50 represents the amount of each B vitamin - is that right?  Will all B-50's have the same stuff in them?  One I was looking at online had 400mg of folic acid - is this OK for cats or are there specific B's & amounts I should get?

I may have to get a whole chicken instead of the thighs if I can find them.  Will this change the recipe or %'s negatively? 

Potato - can I substitue an equal amount of white rice without any imbalances?  (would like to rotate the carbs between batches)

Can I use different combinations of all the veggies found in the different recipes here without imbalance?

Can all the other kitties eat these recipes without problems?  (I'll still probably feed Wellness for their morning meal) 

I have a few more questions on the Elvis & bean recipes but will post again for those.

Thank you thank you!!

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kaffe
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« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2008, 09:48:45 PM »

Hi Petslave!

Let's see if we can bring those BUN and Crea numbers down... more on that later.  First, your questions:

(1)  B-50 complex:  Yes - they are all the same if it is "B-50"  and should have the following:
Thiamin (B1)  50mg
Riboflavin (B2) 50mg
Niacin 50mg
Vit B6 50mg
Folic Acid 400mcg (MICROgrams --- I've never see a B-50 with folic acid 400milligrams - its alwasy micrograms)
Vit B12 50mg
Biotin 50mg
Pantothenic Acid 50mg
PABA 50mg
Inositol 50mg
Choline Bitartrate 50mg
(---perhaps a propriotry blend of certain herbs)

(2)  Whole chicken:  OK - I assume you will cook this chicken and then de-bone, right?  An just use the flesh part for the recipe... as long as you stick to the weight called by the recipe, it should not impact the calcium-to-phosphorus ratio

(3)  Substituting potato with rice:  YES, you can do this... but it will mean you lose some potassium (from the potato). I  like to use rice myself becuase the cats like it better than potato!  It won't impact the balance of the recipe in ways that really matter... what will matter is if you change protein sources.
(4) Combination of veggies:  Yes, you can mix and match veggies --- carrots, squash, pumpkin, zucchini, peas, broccoli, kale, cabbage, cauliflower... whatever your cats like to eat in the way of veggies.  But Squash and pumpkin are always great to add to a CRF kitty recipe becuase of its fermentable fiber content
(5)  Can non-CRF cats partake of this diet?  Sure... why not?  All the recipes here except for Strombeck's are moderate protein anyway.  All it means is that your non-CRF cats may get hungry more  Cheesy and ask to be fed an additional meal  Cheesy --- but do watch their weight!  Te CRF cat needs the calories, but the non-CRF cats may not. 

Question:  What is Tessa's Calcium, Potassium and HCT (packed cell volume or hematocrit)  numbers?  Be good to know so we can tweek the diet to address the BUN, Crea and HCT.  Did you have her blood pressure checked?

Petslave:  some good supplements for CRF kitties are:

1.  Renal Essentials by VetriScience
2.  Renafood or Feline Renal Support by Standard Process
3.  Golden Book Tea Pills
4.  Salmon Oil (500mg - 1000mg a day)
5.  Vit E (30-50IU day)
6.  Hawthorne for heart and blood pressure (just a dash a day)
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petslave
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« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2008, 05:21:03 AM »

Thanks so much!  It's so great that you're putting in all this time to help our special needs kitties!!!

I am going to try to pick up a copy of Tessa's latest numbers today, but he did say over the phone yesterday everything else looked relatively normal.  Her thyroid is slightly low but he said that was good in cats since they go hyper but not hypo in later years. 

He said she seems to be an anomoly since her numbers are the same as when she crashed, and hasn't had any obvious problems since then, with no supportive treatment.  Also, he noticed her urine was well concentrated last year when she was so sick.  This all reinforces my belief that this may have been caused by the food last year.  We didn't do any other tests like BP or urinalysis since it was just supposed to be an eye check & quick blood test.  He does want me to start her on fluids once a week, which I dread because she's almost impossible to keep still.  But that's for another thread!

Back to food - I misread the folic acid, yikes!  Glad to see it's actually much less than that.  I'm worried about the supplements getting thorougly mixed in with all the food, but guess I'll work that out.  Good to know about potato & potassium, I didn't realize that.  And I'll check out the renal support products.  I've heard they do help.  OK, more questions:

Would it help to add egg white to the t&t, elvis & bean recipes?  Isn't there a P binder aspect to it?  Just trying to figure out what to do with all the eggs from the eggshell production! 

The homemade KD diet looks sooo simple - what if I just substitute chicken thigh for a good part of the liver.  Would that balance everything out & have all the goodies the cats need? 

Since they will still get their canned food in the morning, can their homemade meal be less balanced (other than P:C ratios, and maybe taurine)?

I don't know why this is so daunting to me.  I've been cooking for my 2 big dogs for close to a year now & don't worry about getting much balanced with them since they also get commercial canned or raw every morning.  But cats seem much more delicately balanced and they are so small.  Plus I have one CRF, one that was diabetic at one time & one that gets bladder crystals.  What a bunch of little problem children!

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Nabiya
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« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2008, 06:22:57 AM »

petslave, Sorry to hear Tessa's numbers are a little elevated, but being a good mommy you sure have them caught early enough!  So many of us face CRF with our kitties now that they are living longer.  Maybe we should have a topic just on CRF kitties, there's so much we can do now a days that wasn't understood well enough just a few years ago.  You're on the right track though with a good diet from Kaffe!  That's half the battle.

The sub-q fluids can be daunting, but there are many tricks you can use to make them go quick and be very comfortable for the kitty.  Here's a great website for all kinds of ideas and help with them: http://tinyurl.com/63max   Some things I've learned that have never been mentioned by a vet, are to be extra careful with the bag of fluids so it doesn't become contaminated.  Change out the lines everytime; don't let the needle touch any surface before administering (including your hands); keep the bag in a nice dark cool area, etc.  This will prevent any bacteria from getting into kitty's kidneys, so many people start fluids and then kitty ends up with a kidney infection!

Eggshells do not replace phosphorus binders.  If the phosphorus is high, a binder is easy to administer (Alternagel).  Keeping the phosphorus nice and low will keep her feeling really good.

One of the most valuable things I did was join the Yahoo CRF group, where people from all over the world share their personal experiences with their kitties and vets/vet techs are regular members on the forum.  If you're not aware of it, here's the URL:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/   Be aware, though, that these people are die hard renal food addicts and when raw food comes up there's a food fight everytime!

The most important thing is that many, many people have CRF kitties that live 10 years or more after diagnosis!  You'll see that on the Yahoo forum.  What was once a death sentence, now is just a fact of life for kitties and with proper treatment living to be 20+ years old is NOT that uncommon.

Are you aware of Calcitriol?  I call it the CRF miracle drug.  A lot of vets are still not using it yet.  Here's the Yahoo group for it: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Calcitriol/  This forum is monitored by two well know vets and loaded with info on stopping the progression of CRF.  Tessa's creatine is a little high, you would like to see it at 3.0  or less.  Calcitriol will bring that number down.

One last thing, be sure to keep the BP monitored.  High BP is common with CRF, and kitty with not show any symptoms at all.  Just like in people, high BP is the silent killer but is completely treatable if caught early enough.

Good luck, petslave, we know you can do it!
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