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Author Topic: Kaffe Kooks: CRF/CRI Phosphorus/Protein Load of Various Home-made Recipes  (Read 55310 times)
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kaffe
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« Reply #105 on: June 10, 2008, 03:27:09 PM »



Davey's Roasted Guinea/Cornish Hen and Pumpkin Renal Recipe

450 grams       Roasted Guinea Hen or Cornish Hen or Chicken
200 grams       Canned Pumpkin
2/3 tsp           Eggshell powder
1000mg          Taurine
1 tab              B-50 Vitamin B Complex (may skip if you are already supplementing Vit B's everyday)

Method:
1.  Wrap whole guinea or cornish hen or chicken in aluminumfoil and roast in oven until done.  Allow to cool; remove the skin and shred the flesh.
2.  Combine shredded flesh, pumpkin and eggshell.  Mix thoroughly.  If kitty likes a more pasty consistency, you can use a food processor, adding enough water to achieve desired consistency.

Protein: 94.9g
Fat:  11.85g
Carb: 16.2g
Fiber: 5.6g
Ash:  7.05g
Total:  186g x 1000 = 186,000mg
Phosphorus:  830.5mg   /  186,000 x 100 = 0.4465%
Protein:  94.9 / 186 x 100 = 51.02%

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JustMe
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« Reply #106 on: June 10, 2008, 03:40:04 PM »

Whoaaaaaa.  Wow.  What a pleasant surprise.  Thank you, Kaffe.  I'm sure Davey, the lion, will love your latest concoction.  He just had a little grass-fed beef.  He loves chicken.  I have all the ingredients (including organic pumpkin and eggshell powder), except for the vitamin.  Is that a human vitamin?
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Eventually they will understand,
Replied the glorious cat
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That I am always with them
I just am....forever and ever and ever.
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kaffe
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« Reply #107 on: June 10, 2008, 04:15:20 PM »

Whoaaaaaa.  Wow.  What a pleasant surprise.  Thank you, Kaffe.  I'm sure Davey, the lion, will love your latest concoction.  He just had a little grass-fed beef.  He loves chicken.  I have all the ingredients (including organic pumpkin and eggshell powder), except for the vitamin.  Is that a human vitamin?

Yes - you can use human B-50 Vitamin B-Complex - that's what I use for my cat food.  But CRF/CRI kitties should be supplemented with extra Vit B's becuase they lose a lot in their urine.  There are veterinary Vitamin B's fortified with iron that you can get from pet stores OTC.  These are best for CRF cats becuase they also tend to go anemic - supplemental iron is always a good idea BEFORE theyshow clinical signs of anemia. 
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petslave
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« Reply #108 on: June 10, 2008, 05:36:55 PM »

Oh that looks like a wonderful simple recipe, kaffe, thanks!  That one & the T&T beef recipe are next on the production line.  I'm going out to buy ingredients tomorrow, so this came just in time.

Do we need to add the salmon & Vit E oils on this one?  Liver for Vit A?  Or is this more of an occasional treat?

Is there an human-grade iron supplement I can add, or will liver add enough?  Not sure if I can get the vet grade B vitamins with iron here.  Plus I already bought the B-50's.
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kaffe
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« Reply #109 on: June 10, 2008, 06:01:10 PM »

Oh that looks like a wonderful simple recipe, kaffe, thanks!  That one & the T&T beef recipe are next on the production line.  I'm going out to buy ingredients tomorrow, so this came just in time.

Do we need to add the salmon & Vit E oils on this one?  Liver for Vit A?  Or is this more of an occasional treat?

Is there an human-grade iron supplement I can add, or will liver add enough?  Not sure if I can get the vet grade B vitamins with iron here.  Plus I already bought the B-50's.

hmmm...  OK... this is what I am doing for my own kitties.  When I feed them a week's worth of one o two recipes without liver, I make sure they have at least 1 meal that has plenty of liver in it or as in Kaffe's case, I give him a piece of liver (cooked) as a treat becuase he so loves liver.  If I am giving them food from a recipe that contains liver, then I don't give them any extra liver for that week. 

I am now giving Salmon Oil and Vit E separately becuase I need to make sure that at least Kaffe gets the amounts he needs...   So, before their first meal of the day, I give the supplements via an oral syringe:

I mix these in a small medicine cup for Kaffe:
500-1000mg Salmon Oil
1-2 drops from a Vit E 100IU capsule
2 drops from a Co-Q10 30mg capsule
1/4 tsp -  liquid Vit B Complex
1 squirt - Feline Daily 72 --  Multi-Mineral

For Cato:
500mg Salmon Oil
1 drop Vit E from 100IU capsule
1 squirt - Feline Daily 72 multimineral


For CRF kitties, I have been seeing a lot of recommendations to faithfully supplement their diet with:

1.  Vitamin B Complex , prefeable fortified with iron to protect against vit. B depletion from urine and to guard agaisnt anemia.  Pet-Tinic or Nutrived are good choices.  But if you have only Vit B-Complex unfortified with iron, thats OK for a time as long as their is adequate source of iron in the diet (meats and liver).

2.  Salmon or fish oil - these are rich in Omega 3 EPA and DHA which are anti-inflammatory and have been shown to be reno-protective

3.  Vit E (natural d-alpha tocopherol) is needed if one gives fish or slamon oil - also prevents scaring of soft tissues like liver, pancreas and kidneys

4.  Fermentable Fiber -  helps gut bacteria which breaks down nitrogenous wastes to be excreted in feces instead of by the kidneys, thus lesseing the kidneys' workload.... but be very very careful about using FOS becuase FOS helps in the absorbtion of calcium which in turn may lead to elevated calcium levels in the blood - we don;t want that!

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petslave
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« Reply #110 on: June 19, 2008, 07:15:59 PM »

Production question for home cookers:

I've been doing big cooking events, dividing & weighing ingredients, putting together 'packets' of all required ingredients without the supplements added, and freezing them.  When a new batch of food is needed, I thaw a packet in fridge, put in the supplements then mix in food processor.

Of course that means having to clean the food processor 4-5 times total for that batch of food.  What I want to do is mix the whole lot at one time, including the supplements, then freeze the food in portions.  That way it's just thaw & feed, saving lots of time & cleaning.

Is anyone else doing that, and does anyone know if the supplements are damaged in freezing, like they are in cooking?
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kaffe
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« Reply #111 on: June 19, 2008, 07:30:30 PM »

Production question for home cookers:

I've been doing big cooking events, dividing & weighing ingredients, putting together 'packets' of all required ingredients without the supplements added, and freezing them.  When a new batch of food is needed, I thaw a packet in fridge, put in the supplements then mix in food processor.

Of course that means having to clean the food processor 4-5 times total for that batch of food.  What I want to do is mix the whole lot at one time, including the supplements, then freeze the food in portions.  That way it's just thaw & feed, saving lots of time & cleaning.

Is anyone else doing that, and does anyone know if the supplements are damaged in freezing, like they are in cooking?

Good question, Petslave.  I used to mix all the supplements at once into the food mix before portioning and freezing.  When I do this, I am careful to add a fresh dash of powdered taurine as top dressing on every kitty meal --- some taurine is lost in feezing, but not very much - so adding a dash on top of kitty's food wil cover bases.  I still mix all supplements into a raw or cooked mix - but only if said batch is for a week's worth of food for the cats.  If more than that, then I prefer to add supplements later - into each meal - especially if you have salmon oil or fish oil becuase this goes stale very fast - not toxic, but no use either.  So, mu suggestion for you is that if you are making a batch of food that is just for a week, then it is easier to process all of it at once in the blender and mix all your supplements in beofre freezing --- just remember to top dress kitty's meals with a dash - just a dash of extra taurine just in case.
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petslave
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« Reply #112 on: June 19, 2008, 07:43:14 PM »

Thanks, kaffe for the quick response!  I'm making a batch tomorrow so this will help.  I think I'll stick with the current production method.  I had a feeling it would be best to mix after thawing, but the lazy part of me forced me to write that post. Grin Grin

I feed 6 cats in 3 pie plates, so it's hard to portion out individual doses of anything.  My big worry is getting all the supplements blended really well through the mix so everyone gets what they need without having someone get too much. 

The food processor is a new thing for me, and frankly I hate it.  All those bulky complex parts to clean & the scary blades.  But it's for feeding my cats, not for my food, and I didn't see any other options.  I tried to mix the first batch in my beloved easy to clean blender & the motor started smoking!

Oh, I found another nutrition counter, nutritiondata.com.  It gives very detailed results, but you have to register (free) to use it.  The NAT analyzer is much easier to use, but if someone is really into numbers, that one is fun to mess with.
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kaffe
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« Reply #113 on: June 19, 2008, 07:54:06 PM »

Yes - I use the nutritiondata also to see what's in a food (amino acids profile, fats, etc) ... but it doesn't add up ingredients like NATS will do.  Its good to hear that you are "playing around" with these tools now, Petslave!  Way to go!  I started that way too  Cheesy Cheesy Wink  --- then I wanted to buy Genesis software that does what NATS does but is more detailed in nutrional profiles --- but it costs $5,000!  This is the software food manufacturers/ackers use - or, at least, one of the tools.  It even has a Nutrient Labeling thingy   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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petslave
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« Reply #114 on: June 19, 2008, 08:04:34 PM »

kaffe - if you go to My Pantry on there, you can enter a series of foods as a 'recipe' and it will add it all up for you.  It's kind of nice, but very time consuming & I have no idea what I'm looking at afterwards!
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lesliek
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« Reply #115 on: June 19, 2008, 08:21:24 PM »

petslave- I do pretty much what kaffe is doing. I add the vit's & calcium & some others after cooking & before freezing,but salmon oil,taurine,acidophilus & glucosamine goes in at meal time.Also add the milk thistle at meal time,pumpkin goes in after it cools before freezing.If you use plastic or glass containers you can mix it pretty well w/o processor right before feeding. Just make sure its big enough to stir really well or you will have a bigger mess than dirty blades ! I put the dog food into a glass 4 cup measuring cup for warming & mixing & the catfood into a 2 cup. Then portion out to bowls.Of course I still have the measuring cups & spoons & bowls to wash. I usually soak them in hot water while I get ready for work & then they wash up easily.
kaffe-that genisis software sounds great ! But I don't think DH will go for that price.
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kaffe
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« Reply #116 on: June 19, 2008, 09:22:31 PM »

kaffe - if you go to My Pantry on there, you can enter a series of foods as a 'recipe' and it will add it all up for you.  It's kind of nice, but very time consuming & I have no idea what I'm looking at afterwards!

aha!  Thanks for the tip!  It used to frustrate me that I had to add up arginine by hand!
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kaffe
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« Reply #117 on: June 19, 2008, 09:31:55 PM »

petslave- I do pretty much what kaffe is doing. I add the vit's & calcium & some others after cooking & before freezing,but salmon oil,taurine,acidophilus & glucosamine goes in at meal time.Also add the milk thistle at meal time,pumpkin goes in after it cools before freezing.If you use plastic or glass containers you can mix it pretty well w/o processor right before feeding. Just make sure its big enough to stir really well or you will have a bigger mess than dirty blades ! I put the dog food into a glass 4 cup measuring cup for warming & mixing & the catfood into a 2 cup. Then portion out to bowls.Of course I still have the measuring cups & spoons & bowls to wash. I usually soak them in hot water while I get ready for work & then they wash up easily.
kaffe-that genisis software sounds great ! But I don't think DH will go for that price.

Yes - pricey --- I could understand if they had to gather all their data from scracth - but then I found out that they use the food data bank of the USDA anyway - same as NATS and NutritionData!  So, I said... what's the point?  It just has some pretty nifty calculating tools.... ahh well- maybe if I will lotto - but I donlt by lotto  Tongue
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petslave
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« Reply #118 on: June 19, 2008, 09:39:11 PM »

Thanks, lesliek.  Maybe I'll try to mix by hand to save some washing of that dang processor. 

I worry about getting everything mixed in well, but last time I put all the supplement goodies in a half cup of water & shook it up really good before adding to increase the liklihood of getting it distrubuted better in the slop.  Er, fine pate.
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lesliek
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« Reply #119 on: June 20, 2008, 06:22:37 AM »

The putting it in a jar with water trick sounds good & should make it easy to mix in.My problem is they are all different sizes & get different doses of some things. I figure the calcium etc gets regulated by portion size & the ones I need to be more careful with,or that degrade more from heating & cooling I add after into each bowl.I just put 1/2 the food in top with supplements & cover with the rest of the food. They usually eat it with no problem,although lately Remy has been picking pills out of his & leaving them. Now I'm doing some with breakfast & some with dinner & that seems to help with him.
kaffe- I never remember to buy lotto tickets either !Not much chance of winning without a ticket.
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