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Author Topic: Kaffe Kooks: CRF/CRI Phosphorus/Protein Load of Various Home-made Recipes  (Read 51497 times)
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kaffe
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« Reply #120 on: June 20, 2008, 04:10:34 PM »

Thanks, lesliek.  Maybe I'll try to mix by hand to save some washing of that dang processor. 

I worry about getting everything mixed in well, but last time I put all the supplement goodies in a half cup of water & shook it up really good before adding to increase the liklihood of getting it distrubuted better in the slop.  Er, fine pate.

My "trick" for an evenly distributed supplement mix is this:  I crush all pill supplements to fine powder and put in a small mixing bowl together with eggshell. taurine, etc.  Then I add a small jar of babyfood (usually Beechnut tender peas or butternut squash or baby carrots).  Then I add the "oils" - salmon oil, vit E.  Then I stir briskly and pour onto the meat mix and then stir that very well --- the babyfood acts like a supplement "carrier" and as long as that is mixed evenly through the food, you can be assured that the supplements are too.
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petslave
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« Reply #121 on: June 20, 2008, 06:48:38 PM »

Great idea!  I could just use a glop of the mixed food to add the goodies to, then some water to make it soupy.  Both powder & oil supplements do tend to stay on top of the water, so this will be a better way to spread them out.
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petslave
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« Reply #122 on: June 23, 2008, 02:38:52 PM »

Hey kaffe!  Another question here if you have a chance.  I'm getting ready to mix up a new megabatch of the T&T recipe & am going to add some boiled egg whites this time (both as a P binder, & as a way to get rid of all the eggs I'm buying for the shells).  Not sure how much, maybe one egg white per recipe batch. 

Do I need to change anything with the other ingredients as a result?
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kaffe
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« Reply #123 on: June 23, 2008, 04:09:43 PM »

Hi Petslve!

You will not be impacting the phosphorus load much by adding egg whites to the recipe.  The whites of ONE large egg contains under 5mg phosphorus - negligible in the face of a whole recipe.  I would add up to 3 egg whites to a single recipe --- you will "up" the protein that way perhaps to almost 50%, but that is still very acceptable especially since the protein of egg whites is one of the highest in quality or bioavailability.  If your cats would accept the cooked egg whites, go for it (my cats don't like egg too much, so I tend to use little).  Don't be afraid to do "up" protein unless your cat is late stage renal failure (stage 3 and 4).  Many cats in early CRI do very well on 75% protein load --- some have even improved so much as to bring BUN and Crea back to normal ranges (according so some anecdotal testimonies I've read). 
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petslave
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« Reply #124 on: June 23, 2008, 07:02:32 PM »

Thanks!!!

I thought the whites actually bound phosphrous - am I wrong in that?  I don't want to add more P, but would be nice to have something natural to bind P!
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kaffe
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« Reply #125 on: June 23, 2008, 07:05:39 PM »

Thanks!!!

I thought the whites actually bound phosphrous - am I wrong in that?  I don't want to add more P, but would be nice to have something natural to bind P!

No - egg whites do not bind Phos --- raw egg white bind biotin (sp?), and that's why we don't feed egg whites raw. A natural oral phosphate binder is calcium carbonate --- that's why using eggshells is good. 
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lesliek
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Trooper,Remy & Fragile


« Reply #126 on: June 23, 2008, 09:09:34 PM »

I think 1 of the sites with recipes early last year said egg whites were a binder. I remember seeing it & still didn't realize it wasn't true.Hadn't really researched it because I use the eggshell not bonemeal & have no kidney issues with anyone yet.Glad you told us !
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"the world's most inept extortionist"
kaffe
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« Reply #127 on: June 23, 2008, 09:29:55 PM »

Lesleik: Maybe that web site you saw said egg white is a "binder" but failed to specify that it was biotin that it binds?  ... raw egg white has avidin and it is this ingredient that binds biotin, one of the B vitamins.  I've not seen anyone in the various CRF groups mention or use egg whites as phosphate binder --- eggshell, yes, becuase of the calcium carbonate in it.  Strange that the web site would say egg whites are phsophate binders... I'll see what I can find about that.
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petslave
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« Reply #128 on: June 23, 2008, 10:54:51 PM »

I thought I saw it too.  And it seems many CRF recipes have a lot of egg white.

Just looked it up, and I guess it's used because the whites have low P but still good protien:

http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm#eggs

"Some people choose to only feed the white, because this provides additional protein but does not contain high levels of phosphorus. According to the US Department of Agriculture's Food and Nutrition Information Centre, one large egg white weighs about 33g and contains 17 calories, 3.6g protein, no fat and 5mg of phosphorus. This is a lot less phosphorus than a chicken breast, and the protein in eggs is more digestible."

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petslave
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« Reply #129 on: June 23, 2008, 11:03:44 PM »

And here is why - interesting!

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9352/alphalinks3-a.html

"Egg whites contain no cells, so no cell membranes loaded with phosphorus, so they have very very low levels of phosphorus"

Good info on that site on the importance of protien, but low P for CRF kitties.
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kaffe
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« Reply #130 on: June 23, 2008, 11:30:17 PM »

 Grin

OK... This is what we've got about egg white:

1.  Egg whites are a rich source of bio-available protein
2.  Egg whites have almost no phosphorus - probably the only animal-source protein that has so little phosphorus and therefore excellent to feed CRF kitties
3.  Egg whites that are UNcooked (raw) will bind biotin and cause a biotin deficiency if fed all the time; therefore, when feeding egg whites, make sure they are COOKED (cooking deactivates avidin, the chemical in gg white that binds with biotin specifically)

That's what we have right?
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lesliek
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« Reply #131 on: June 24, 2008, 06:37:30 AM »

I looked but haven't found the link. It was one of the first sites showing up with recipes last year,I remember that. Maybe it just said it was a binder,& not what it would bind. Back then everything was new & overwhelming !Good to know about the raw eggwhite problem though.
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petslave
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« Reply #132 on: June 24, 2008, 06:53:10 AM »

I think that's a comprehensive list, kaffe.  That one article referenced that raw egg white-biotin problem too.

I always thought of egg white as kind of neutral, with little nutritional value.  Not sure why, looks like it is just as much animal product as anything else off the chicken!
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kaffe
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« Reply #133 on: June 24, 2008, 10:23:33 AM »

Body builders drink egg whites for the protein!  Ewwww....  When my son-in-law was body-building, he used to drink the raw whites of a dozen eggs  a couple of times a week ... I would then use the egg yolks to make lecheflan, a Spanish desert.
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lesliek
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« Reply #134 on: June 24, 2008, 12:14:18 PM »

My son used to drink whole raw eggs in a weight gain smoothie for football. I think it was 2-3 eggs,a packet of Carnation instant breakfast,a banana & vanilla ice cream.Believe it had brewers yeast too & milk. Double Yuck !
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