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Author Topic: Good Nutrient Calculator?  (Read 5863 times)
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Eartha
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« on: September 10, 2007, 09:00:14 PM »

I'm trying to evaluate dog food recipes for nutritional completeness.  I've been using the calculator at Nutrition Data to analyze nutrient content, but it doesn't track a few measurements like linoleic acid, chlorine, or iodine.  It also doesn't have data on some things like whole ground rabbit (it does at least have info on composite cuts). Does anyone know of a more complete tool?

Edit:  I'm trying to get a calculator that will give me data on all the nutrients in the AAFCO Dog Nutrition Profile.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 05:53:28 AM by Eartha » Logged
kaffe
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2007, 02:56:50 AM »

I use these two nutrient analysis tools to balance recipes:

http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/~food-lab/nat/mainnat.html 
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

both have nutritional analysis for rabbit under "game" but the particular nutrients you are looking for are not listed. Huh
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Eartha
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2007, 05:51:59 AM »

Thanks, Kaffe.  The USDA database is a good tool for looking up foods.  I use that sometimes as well.  I'm unfamiliar with NATS though I tried it and I couldn't get it to list some basic info like magnesium, copper, or vitamin E content or break the protein content into specific amino acids. Is there a way to do that?
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kaffe
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 03:01:07 PM »

NATS is the simplest analysis tool, but it lists only a few things and does not nreakdown say for example, the amino acids in protein or monofats etc.  I use NATS to quickly balance my calcium-to-phosphoris ratios and calculate calories. 

Hmmm.  I would think there should be SOMETHING out there that will help us track iodine levels in foods. 

Sorry I can't help more.

Why do you want to track chlorine, iodine and linoic acid (alpha or gamma?)  Has your dog got a special condition? 

I have been seriously considering getting one of those nutrional textbooks for animals that animal nutritionists use.... but I hear these could cost husdreds of dollars!
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Eartha
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2007, 03:31:49 PM »

Lol, I don't even have a dog yet! So, no special conditions. I'm picking up my two Springer Spaniel pups in two weeks and I want to make sure I have some balanced recipes.  I was using the AAFCO Nutrient profile and they include minimum values for linoleic acid, iodine, and chlorine.  So, I just wanted to be thorough while I'm at it and check those. 

The iodine I want to watch since the puppies' mother developed a thyroid problem when she gave birth (11 puppies as a first litter would tax any mom).  Linoleic acid (both alpha- and gamma-) is considered an essential omega-6 for dogs and I'd just like to check the fats.  I would guess (wildly) that the chlorine was just a test of how much salt commercial makers can put in the food before they poison the animals.

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kaffe
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2007, 03:59:31 PM »

Then I can tell that you will make an excellent mommie to your spaniels.  Thyroid conditions can also be caused by chemicals in the home environement like the fire retardants used in carpets and matresses.  There was a study on that but I think it was in cats.  The study is just a "heads up" and does not claim to be conclusive... I guess some animals, like some people, are made susceptible to these chemicals becuase of their genetic makeup.  So, to be safe, they say that we should vacuum carpets using hepa filters (becuase the chemical gets dissipated in the air and inhaled by pets and humans) and cover foam mattresses with special allergy sheets and pillow cases (they sell these in stores). 

I take it you will home cook for your dogs?  GREAT idea!  I feed my cats home-prepared raw food but use commerical wet and dry for treats.  Dr. Pitcairn's book (I hear) has lots of recipes for dogs. 
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Eartha
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2007, 07:00:55 AM »

Thanks for the encouragement and info. Kaffe!  I did order the Pitcairn book although I've heard that her recipes tend to be high in grain and use onion.  But, I'll check it out.  I switched my cat to homefeeding with the recall this spring and her health (which wasn't even considered bad) has shown immediate and remarkable improvement.  I can't imagine going back to commercial food.

Thanks for the tip about the special cases too. I'll look into it.
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kaffe
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2007, 08:33:17 PM »

Same here, Eartha!  I will not go back to giving my cats commercial petfood as their mainstay diet.  As treats and the occassional meal or two is fine I guess.   But the list of "safe" commercial pet food is getting awfully shorter and shorter as the months go by.  If I could get hold of fresh lamb or rabbit, I won;t even think of getting commercial cat food.  Its just that I thnk it is best to feed pets a variety of meats - chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, rabbit.   But I can only get my paws on chicken, turkey and cornish game hens.  I don't feed much beef becuase that is not their natural prey.  When I do, I mix it with turkey or chicken.  And then I don't use a lot of it.  I will be adding fish to their menu soon, as soon as I figure out which kinds are very very very low in mercury and sodium.  Glad to hear your kitty is doing wel on home-prepared.  My cats are also doing great on their new diet... nealy 4 months now!
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straybaby
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2007, 08:58:52 AM »

Same here, Eartha!  I will not go back to giving my cats commercial petfood as their mainstay diet.  As treats and the occassional meal or two is fine I guess.   But the list of "safe" commercial pet food is getting awfully shorter and shorter as the months go by.  If I could get hold of fresh lamb or rabbit, I won;t even think of getting commercial cat food.  Its just that I thnk it is best to feed pets a variety of meats - chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, rabbit.   But I can only get my paws on chicken, turkey and cornish game hens.  I don't feed much beef becuase that is not their natural prey.  When I do, I mix it with turkey or chicken.  And then I don't use a lot of it.  I will be adding fish to their menu soon, as soon as I figure out which kinds are very very very low in mercury and sodium.  Glad to hear your kitty is doing wel on home-prepared.  My cats are also doing great on their new diet... nealy 4 months now!

there's a yahoo group, CarnivoreFeed-Supplier, that may help you find local sources for lamb and rabbit. for lamb, you can also check with ranchers in your area that sell lamb for humans and see if they'll sell you *scrap* lamb. i've got one that is saving necks, heart, trim, bones etc for me. i also order from Hare Today and they have rabbit along with other varieties.
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kaffe
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2007, 06:17:21 PM »

oooohh... Great suggestion, Straybaby!  Thanks.  I'll look into local suppliers and ranchers. 
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5CatMom
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2008, 06:45:39 AM »

I'm working on a spreadsheet, too.

Does anyone have an analysis for:

*  Raw chicken thighs with bone

*  Raw chicken thighs with bone and skin


There doesn't seem to be much info about what's in bones.

5CatMom
=^..^=
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kaffe
Guest
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2008, 09:17:36 AM »

5Cat;  All I have on "bones" is this (which I posted in the Meowmie thread a few months ago):

Bone Content of Various Chicken Parts

 
           Skin, g   Skin, %   Lean, g   Lean, %   Fat, g   Fat, %   Bone, g   Bone, %   Total,g
Wings   54.58    25.27      98.98      44.15       0.20    0.09       65.58      30.48      219.34
Breast  39.58      8.88     317.47     71.79     21.27     4.52       64.63      14.81      442.95
Legs    59.71     10.70     394.76     68.63     12.01     1.26      105.60     18.41      572.08
Back    37.08      9.39     123.72      32.10     38.94    9.48       189.91     49.03      389.65
Total   190.95   11.76.   934.93.      57.57     72.42.   4.46.      425.72.    26.21     1624.02
Feet   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .                                                                             95.09
Viscera, blood, feathers   .   .   .   .   .                                                              459.82
Head & neck   .   .   .   .   .   .   .                                                                     211.65
Live weight   .   .   .   .   .   .   .                                                                     2477.45
   

From the above example one can see that whole commercially available chickens without innards may contain too much bones vs. meat to be fed longterm as a sole dietary source to cats (2 parts meat vs. 1 part bones), but clearly, wings (necks) and backs are definitely way too rich in bones and should only be fed as a supplement to lean meat. Meyer/Zentek say that 1 g of bones per 1 kg of body weight suffice to cover maintenance requirements for calcium and phosphorus but should not exceed 10 g per day per kilo body weight. Note that approx. 70% of the dry, fat-free mature bone are minerals (generally known as bone ash) of which the chief components are 80% Ca3(PO4) = calcium phosphate, 13% CaCO3 = calcium carbonate and 2% Mg(PO4) = magnesium phosphate and the remainder 5% will be small amounts of other macro minerals and trace minerals. The remaining 30% of bone (dry, fat-free) is the organic fraction, over 90% of which is collagen which has low digestibility  and is (to some extent) subject to bacterial fermentation in the colon.
 
References:
1.   Field, RA: Ash and Calcium as measures of bone in meat and bone mixtures, Meat Science 53 (2000), pp. 255-264
2.   Lin, RS; Chen, LR; Huang, SC; Liu CY: Electromagnetic scanning to estimate carcass lean content of Taiwan native broilers, Meat Science 61 (2002), pp. 295-300
3.   Meyer H; Zentek J.: Ernährung des Hundes, Grundlagen, Fütterung, Diätetik, Parey Buchverlag Berlin 1998, ISBN 3-8263-8423-7
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5CatMom
Guest
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2008, 11:46:15 AM »

Kaffe,

Thanks.  That will help.

Is that from the Aby website?  That was a good site, but I no longer have the link.

5CatMom
= ^..^=
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kaffe
Guest
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2008, 11:48:17 AM »

I think so, 5Cat.  I'll check.
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