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Author Topic: Wysong Goes on The Offensive????  (Read 10853 times)
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Steve
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« on: April 30, 2007, 04:52:54 PM »

This is the strangest thing I've ever seen.


A variety of misleading claims and myths have emerged from the Menu Foods recall, particularly on the Internet. All problems are best addressed with full information and reason—not hysteria—and this situation is no exception.

The claims are listed followed by a rebuttal:


1. Since it was discovered that a variety of brands have been manufactured at Menu, including so-called “generics,” the assumption is made that all brands made at Menu are of “generic” quality.
wysong That is not true. A manufacturing plant can make a Ferrari or a tricycle. The value of products has to do with the knowledge and engineering that goes into them, not necessarily the location where they are made. The real problem in the pet food industry is not so much the manufacturing, per se, but that the brand companies themselves are generic in that virtually all of them—except Wysong—are headed by business people, not experts in health, nutrition, and food technology.

2. It has been a secret that a variety of brands of pet foods can be made at one manufacturer, like Menu.
wysong The fact that any person off the street can go to any number of contract manufacturers and have a product made has been explained by Wysong for the past 20 years. Thus the expertise of the heads of brand companies who dictate to these manufacturers how their products are to be made must be evaluated.

3. Finding a brand not made at Menu will solve the “generic” food problem.
wysong By this definition of generic virtually every food would be generic since most of them are made at private label packers. Again, the issue is not so much where the product is made, but whether those who dictate to the private label manufacturer the formulation and processing have true competence and principle.

4. Menu Foods is said to support inhumane animal testing because animals died from being test fed the suspect food.
wysong The details of this are not clear. If they fed a known toxin to animals, that is not excusable. If this test result was inadvertent or forced by regulators to determine what was causing the problem, that is another matter. Before condemning all the facts need to be known.

5. No company that deals with Menu should be supported since that would mean supporting inhumane animal testing.
wysong That reasoning is not fair. Some feeding studies for nutrition are relatively harmless. Before being too critical of the ethics of others, pet owners must understand that when pets are confined to a home, yard, or leash and then fed what the owner selects, that is like a caged animal experiment. The cage is just bigger than in a laboratory. Every food other than an animal’s natural raw whole prey is experimental. It can be argued that for pet owners to be totally ethical, pets should be set free in nature so that they can eat their natural diet from nature. Until one does that, they must be careful about drawing arbitrary ethical lines and sitting in judgment of others. (None of this is to suggest that Wysong does any caged animal experimentation, nor has it ever seen the need to.)

6. Since Wysong has had a few of its products produced at Menu that means Wysong supports inhumane animal experimentation and should be boycotted like Menu.
wysong Wysong produces about 100 nutritional products for pets. We have our own manufacturing facilities. Those 2 or 3 that were made at Menu (and not a part of the recall) were designed by Wysong doctors and were never tested on animals. Menu was only used because it has production facilities that Wysong has not finished yet. No company can control every ethical decision that every company it deals with makes. Wysong, or any company or person, can only control what they are directly responsible for. If people were to judge the ethics of every person in every company supplying products, utilities, government, and so forth they would have to go live alone in the woods somewhere to be clean of any unethical tainting. This is not to say that companies that truly behave unethically as a matter of practice should not be avoided. The question of what is or is not ethical is a more difficult challenge if one does not wish to be a hypocrite.

7. Reports as of this writing attribute the deaths to rat poison in the wheat gluten used in processing.
wysong That does not make Menu a villain. Every food company is vulnerable to such a disaster. It would be impossible to test for every conceivable toxin. Also, who knows whether this may have been sabotage by a competitor or enemy. What a sure way to destroy a company, particularly when the public then attacks the victim company as Menu is being attacked. We must keep in mind that Menu is not a “company,” it is hundreds of people and their families. What is the ethics of destroying these people’s lives because of an accident?

8. There is therefore no reason to trust or believe that anything Menu produces is safe.
wysong There is no food anywhere that can be totally trusted. The most sure bet is to grow all your own food in your own yard. If that is not possible there is no choice but to trust. Every person and animal is at risk every time they consume a food from a package. Such risk is the price of modern food dependence.

9. Menu foods should be boycotted and blackballed.
wysong But that is like saying any company or person that ever makes a mistake, or is the victim of sabotage, should be boycotted. Attacking Menu means destroying the company and the living of hundreds of people. That does not seem to be the fair or appropriate response at this point. No company is more careful in its production or selection of ingredients. We must also keep in mind that life is filled with dangers. The way to protect oneself is with intelligence and information, not myth, emotion, and hysteria.

10. Pet foods should not contain wheat gluten, corn, or any other grain for that matter because that is not what they would eat in the wild.
wysong Wysong has taught this for 25 years. However, if people want the convenience of packaged foods, starches (grains, potato, tapioca) are necessary in dry food extrusion and as binders and thickeners in wet foods. They also provide some nutritional value.

11. The pet food industry is an outlet for what is left of a carcass that has been stripped for human consumption. They grind up almost anything and then use fillers like corn and cheap sources of protein like wheat gluten.
wysong This reflects a lack of understanding of food processing. Wheat gluten is not a cheap source of protein. Neither it nor corn (a mythological boogeyman ingredient of epic proportions, without one bit of scientific evidence proving it is any worse than any other starch source) is used as “fillers” in order for evil pet food companies to rip off the public.

With regard to “stripped carcasses,” that is what carnivores eat in the wild, not just prime chicken breast and filet mignon. They eat the entire carcass, and especially relish all those nasty “by-products” that are demonized. Moreover, ethics should not end with pets. Should everything but a food animal’s prime muscle meat cuts go to a landfill when in fact all the “by-products” are where most of the nutrition is? When there are people starving in the world should we divert human foods to pets? Ethics does not begin and end with quick and easy sound bites that make us feel good about ourselves.

(To get a food as close to the wild prototype as possible follow the Wysong Optimal Health Program, read the How To Apologize To Your Pet brochure and feed Wysong Archetype™ and Dream Treat™ products.) Also See: The Myth of 100% Complete Processed Pet Foods and By-Products.

12. Excessive carbohydrates like wheat gluten are giving pets the same degenerative diseases humans have.
wysong Agreed, except that wheat gluten is not a carbohydrate. Controlling carbohydrate and its role in degenerative diseases has been the Wysong mantra for 25 years. It is not, however, the call from other manufacturers now being recommended because they have never been associated with Menu.

13. People should switch to a raw diet and avoid companies like Menu.
wysong But that does not eliminate dangers. Anybody can produce a raw food in their kitchen, freeze it and sell it. See: The Case Against Raw Frozen Pet Foods.

14. Use freeze-dried food instead of products like those from Menu.
wysong Freeze-dried is not necessarily raw. Wysong is the only manufacturer that holds their raw foods to under the critical 118 degrees and incorporates features that help prevent the possibility of food pathogens. Everyone else (to our knowledge) heats their “freeze-dried” to speed production and takes no measures to prevent food-borne pathogens. Do not fall into the trap of thinking “freeze-dried” means raw.

15. An alternative to Menu and all the companies that are guilty by association is to mix supplements up with some quality canned foods, raw meat, plain yogurt, eggs, cottage cheese and the like.
wysong Those are good basic ideas that, again, originally came from Wysong—not brands now being recommended because they never used Menu. But a person is still not out of danger nor have they taken the high road. The ethics of the yogurt, meat, and cottage cheese makers must be checked. Do they make it in their own plants? Is there any animal testing, cruelty, or food recalls in their history or in any of their suppliers’ history? Is there certainty that those foods contain no toxins or never will? Can we really be sure such companies are not as “evil” as Menu?

16. There are several canned foods not produced by Menu and they should be used.
wysong But almost none of them are made by the companies with their names on the labels. None of them are led by health, nutrition, or food processing professionals. All of them promote pet health and feeding myths. Some of their products are made out of the country, like in China. Do the sweat shops in China (people every bit as caged as animals in U.S. experiments) regulate food better than the U.S.? It could be like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Blackballing Menu is not the key to pet health.

17. The best source of information on pet health and feeding is on Internet chat rooms and blogs.
wysong Only if the writers are competent, are not simply spouting off myths, and are backing up what they say with science and reason. The best source of information on pet health and nutrition comes from Wysong, hands down. Our extensive website is like no other and cuts through all the mythology and baseless claims. We even teach people how to feed without using any of our products whatsoever!

18. Above all, do not support Menu foods in any way, shape, or form. Send your message with your wallet.
wysong Yes, by all means. Let’s lynch Menu, their employees, and all of the thousands of companies that have ever done business with them. In other words, “string ‘em up,” react with emotion, not with fairness or intelligence.

That is, of course, sarcasm. The world is not perfect or conveniently defined by good and evil. It is best negotiated with reason, looking at all the evidence, using foresight, and being open minded. That is how the Menu situation needs to be addressed.

http://www.wysong.net/menufoods.shtml
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 05:40:14 PM by Steve » Logged
Rollo
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2007, 07:17:41 AM »

This is lunacy!!! 
So far, Natura had the best response I've seen from any pet food company. They basically said yes we use Menu Foods for our canned foods only, but because of this fiasco, we're going to buy or build our own plant.  That's the way to do it. Admit your mistakes and FIX THEM.  All the other companies just seem to be in denial.  It appears as if Wysong is in aggressive denial.
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mountainkimmie
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2007, 04:06:27 PM »

I think the funniest part is where, in the middle of the rant, he veers into a commercial for his products.  I am so reminded of Rich Hall’s imitation of Paul Harvey on Saturday Night Live, where he is constantly slipping mentions of his sponsors into what is supposed to be an news report.  Just imagine Paul Harvey reading the following, and you’ll see what I mean:

“. . . When there are people starving in the world should we divert human foods to pets? Ethics does not begin and end with quick and easy sound bites that make us feel good about ourselves.  (To get a food as close to the wild prototype as possible follow the Wysong Optimal Health Program, read the How To Apologize To Your Pet brochure and feed Wysong Archetype™ and Dream Treat™ products.) Also See: The Myth of 100% Complete Processed Pet Foods and By-Products.)”
Grin
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Steve
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2007, 04:25:04 PM »

I'm beginning to think Wysong is more of a Cult then it is a  down to earth honest company.

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ally
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2007, 04:33:57 PM »

Anyone read Wysong's response to a WDJ review?
It seems to be from '06 but still an interesting read.

Seems to be a whole lotta point-by-point rebuttal goin' on...
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KathrynAsh
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2007, 09:19:33 AM »

Companies don't write stuff like this unless they're guilty of something. Wow! I've never fed Wysong, and after this, not only will I never feed Wysong, I'm absolutely positive I'll never feed anything from Menu.
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Cat Lady
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2007, 02:19:49 AM »

Wysong's new comment page definitely has a different tone. But they're still wrong if they think they have no ingredients from China and they need to look into it. I sent them a list of ingredients I urged them to closely look at.

I'm not necessarily looking for products with no Chinese ingredients, although I do wish that could be possible. I'm just looking for companies who are informed, open, and honest about their product and ingredients.
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tinydogsrule
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2007, 06:24:21 AM »

Here is the letter I sent Wysong:

Hello,

I read your first, and then your second, letter in response to the public uproar over Menu foods, threats to boycott, etc.

While all your information is reasonable, responsible, educated and eloquent in it' s delivery, you are perhaps missing one crucial element: Violation

The pet owner has been violated in the worst possible way. The pets who trusted us died by our very hand. The companies we trusted and PAID significant amounts of money to killed our fur babies. Your PR logic is irrelevant when such a violation has occurred.

You speak in clinical terms and analytical facts which have nothing to do with a very real person seeing thier lifetime best friend still and lifeless DEAD. Cold and stiff by their favorite little toy and fluffy pet bed. What part of this are you not getting?

And if boycotting a company who held back information and 'passed the buck' makes the grief a tiny bit less painful, then who is to lecture us about all banding together cheering BOYCOTT? We are coming together as pet owners, and we are force to be counted. We will not go away or be written off or reasoned with like misbehaving children.

All we have are our wallets and our online voice. There are millions of pets who count on us to protect them. And we will do everything we can in honor of those who died and in honor of those who remain. We are wounded, we are mad and we have a right to wield whatever we have left in any way suitable to ease our pain. We are here to make a loud enough noise to effect change.

This is not just about Menu Foods. It is about corporate profit with a blatant disregard for the consumer -  how much profit is enough? Cheaper, cheaper, cheaper to make the product we pay the same for while our pet gets less and less and less.

So what if Menu foods goes down and 'takes one for the team'? What if Menu is out of the game as a message to all the remaining pet food companies? It is time to get more regulated, more nutritious and implement new truth in labeling laws and a mandatory disclosure of country of origin. THEY OWES US THAT MUCH. Let them fall.

And yes, your tone is frustrated.

How do you think WE Feel? Every day a new food is added to the recall list. Your well written letter appears to be honest feedback on your part...

However, it does not acknowledge our right to act out in the only way we can make a difference  - by boycotting the company that showed blatant disregard. And we do so in the hopes others will wise up and take appropriate, ethical, aggressive action so that this never happens again.

Companies have a choice to drop Menu or drop us as consumers. Period. It is the pet food company's choice- we have made ours.

And for the record, it is totally ours to make.

tinydogsrule 
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 06:34:36 AM by tinydogsrule » Logged
JJ
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2007, 11:26:53 PM »

Bravo, Bravo, Bravo on that spectacular post.

 Does anyone have any knowledge about Wysong foods ever being recalled? Whole Foods and Wild Oats used to sell it but one day I saw that they no longer carried it. Whole Foods has a policy for a food to be on their shelves. If something doesnt fit right with the food they will not have it in their stores. Wysong has not been sold there for over a year or so. Wonder why?
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Your blessings be more,
And nothing but happiness
Come through your door
TC
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2007, 09:21:02 AM »

There are quite a few illogical points, wierd assumptions and a great hope for consumer stupidity in that Wysong "rant."  I am not even going to take the time necessary to point out the defects in some of their arguments - it was distasteful enough just to read it.

I don't know a thing about their food.  However, I do know tons about their management now.  I wouldn't even consider them for purchase.  This is one of those responses that they should have put in a drawer for a week so they could cool down first,  and then reviewed it again, to see if they really meant to say things like this.  Maybe they would have reconsidered and not submitted this.

If I were a Wysong user, seeing this would disappoint me greatly.

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automaton2
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2009, 08:04:54 AM »

I love the part about wheat gluten and grains
heres nurture w pheasant
Chicken, Chicken Giblets, Pheasant, Poultry Fat, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Oat Groats, Whole Egg, DL-Methionine, Salt, Taurine, Lecithin, Citric Acid, Coconut, Sage Extract, Rosemary Extract, Dried Kelp, Garlic, Black Pepper, Artichoke, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Yeast Culture, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.
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babysweet
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Posts: 287


« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2009, 10:24:57 AM »

Geez - I agree, JJ - I just can NOT sit still long enough to point out all the problems with this "rebuttal." 

We considered Wysong Uretic many, many years ago - it seemed like the only alternative to C/D at the time.  Until I read the ingredients - I was so highly unimpressed with their label (and their website!) that I made my own food.  This proves that I made the right decision.  Can anyone explain to me how a company can put out a food claimed to be for urinary issues... that has NEVER been tested on animals?

Sorry, but I'm not an animal rights lunatic that says that animal testing is evil across the board.  Testing PET FOOD on animals - how can one argue against this?  I agree that testing on animals is, in many cases, inappropriate.  If the tests cause the animal pain, discomfort or displeasure (particularly when they fail to provide an accurate model for humans as is sooo often the case) serious questions need to be asked, and animal welfare organizations SHOULD be involved.  However, when testing a product FOR pets using ingredients that are GRAS - well, surely that's a different story?

And is that REALLY why they think we're all wary of Menu Foods clients who don't specify the safety measures in place to prevent a repeat of the 2007 nightmare?  Honestly - can they be that thick??!

Frankly, any company that touts raw foods and then denounces commercial raw foods (you know, the competitor), defends using ingredients like corn, soy, yeast and menadione in their formulas and denounces any food that meets AAFCO specifications (after all, we can trust the NRC regarding menadione, but certainly not minimum requirements right?  That's not flawed logic, is it??) is NOT a company I would trust to make plant food, let alone pet food.

Sorry, but I had no intention of feeding Wysong to any of my pets - and now I will do my best to warn others away from it.  The easiest way is simply to send them to this website... holy mackerel.

mmmmm... animal plasma and digest.   Shocked
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Spartycats
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 10:34:18 AM »

I'm at a loss why this thread was resurrected after 2 years.

I use Wysong products.
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Steve
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 10:49:39 AM »

I'm at a loss why this thread was resurrected after 2 years.


Me too. That was then and this is now. It's hard enough as it is trying to figure out what the Pet Food Industry right now
is up to because a lot of changes and shifts have happened and are still occurring since the 07 Disaster turned the whole game upside down and left it in shambles.

Was looking at Wysong recently when I was out shopping other then that I don't have a clue as to what they are doing right now.

I do remember clearly that a lot of brands went NUTS-BERSERK when this thing happened back then purely out of defense shock.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 10:51:52 AM by Steve » Logged
babysweet
Sr. Member
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Posts: 287


« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2009, 10:52:16 AM »

whoops - didn't look at the date on the original post...  Embarrassed

Regardless, glad I read it - hadn't seen this one...   Tongue
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