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Pet Food Info (Menu Foods, Iams, Purina, Hills, Ol'Roy, etc.) => News (Recall Related) => Topic started by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 24, 2008, 03:52:10 PM



Title: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 24, 2008, 03:52:10 PM
http://www.fda.gov:80/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01825.html

FDA News
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 24, 2008
 Media Inquiries:
Kimberly Rawlings, 301-827-6242
Consumer Inquiries:
888-INFO-FDA
 


FDA Orders Pet Food Maker to Obtain Emergency Operating Permit
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued an order requiring that Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc., in Wheeling, Ill., obtain an emergency permit from the FDA before its canned pet food products enter interstate commerce.

A recent inspection revealed significant deviations from prescribed documentation of processes, equipment, and recordkeeping in the production of the company's thermally processed low acid canned food (LACF) products. These problems could result in under-processed pet foods, which can allow the survival and growth of Clostridium botulinum (C. botulinum), a bacterium that causes botulism in some animals as well as in humans.

"As outlined in the Food Protection Plan, the FDA uses a risk-based approach to locate the areas of greatest risk for foods, and targets preventive controls and inspections to those areas, " said Dr. Stephen Sundlof, director, Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition. "The FDA's authority to issue an order requiring an emergency permit is an enforcement tool designed to prevent unsafe foods from reaching consumers.”  (continues online)



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Arlo on April 24, 2008, 03:53:51 PM
What do they have to do to get a permit?  I hope they have to prove no botulism.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 24, 2008, 03:57:17 PM
Arlo, you got there before I could post whole article. Hope this answers your question:


The FDA issues an "Order of Need for Emergency Permit” if the agency determines that a company fails to meet the regulatory requirements to process a product that does not present a health risk. For Evanger's to resume business, the company must document that corrective actions and processing procedures have been implemented to ensure that the finished product will not present a health hazard.

Botulism is a powerful toxin that affects the nervous system and can be fatal. The disease has been documented in dogs and cats. Signs of botulism in animals are progressive muscle paralysis, disturbed vision, difficulty in chewing and swallowing, and progressive weakness to the body. Death is usually due to paralysis of the heart or the muscles used in breathing.

In light of human botulism illnesses and recalls that occurred due to under-processed hot dog chili sauce, and potentially under-processed canned green beans, FDA has urged all LACF processors to review their operations and the apply scientific principals and regulations that have been established to provide a safe product.

While FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine has authority over animal feed and foods, CFSAN is responsible for regulating all human and animal LACF processing. The two centers are collaborating on this enforcement action.  


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Arlo on April 24, 2008, 03:59:09 PM
Thank you, 3cat! That is exactly what I wanted to know.  Every since there was counterfeit paperwork for counterfeit materials, I have been nervous.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 24, 2008, 04:07:24 PM
JustMe has already put links in the cat food and dog food by experience threads.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: sharky on April 24, 2008, 05:25:12 PM
Thank you for posting


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: SandyBeach on April 24, 2008, 05:43:00 PM
 >:(  I knew this would happen. When I read a while back some people found odd stuff in their cans I finshed off what I had at the time..and man I got a deal cause my dealer was selling me a case of 24 cans for 20.00  ..not bad...I had no issues with it but I did notice when I got a case of the beef he started itching. HE IS NOT allergic to beef...I had allergy testing done on him. So anyhow I wondered when I saw all the posts on green gob and all...if issues would come up because ...they say it is all meat (the two flavors I bought) and KOSHER...I can't recall exactly how they worded it but it sounded like humans could eat it...it may have said so on the site or can..or maybe when I talked to the girl way back on the phone...Today I bought a huge pork loin and man I am glad I have not been feeding much animal food...If a human ate this food or handled it they too can get Botulism and die in most cases. I was a bit shocked to see this today.....but yet not...I felt guity today spending over 20.00 on a roast for a dog when I know people are starving all over but I do not feel so bad now


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Scratch on April 24, 2008, 07:35:16 PM
Isn't this just great.  It's a food I use to like.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 25, 2008, 07:23:14 AM
WHAT?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

I put Daisy back on it after a break of a few months.  It gave her the runs so I took her off again!  When was the botulism found?  The last can she has was a week ago.  She ate it for about two weeks. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 25, 2008, 07:25:15 AM
was botulism actually found or just the potential for it?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on April 25, 2008, 07:40:36 AM
Does this mean the FDA is actually INSPECTING something?  Well, I never!

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on April 25, 2008, 08:10:30 AM
IMO The FDA wouldnt even bother looking into it unless there was already serious problem.

That is what I thought. When they said "fails to meet the regulatory requirements to process a product that does not present a health risk" & "ensure that the finished product will not present a health hazard", I bet myself a $ that there were verified health issues. The topic of botulism followed and I'd bet MissKitty a bag of kibble of her choice that's what was verified or in the process of being verified.

I don't think we've heard the end of this one.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on April 25, 2008, 08:28:52 AM
Martin,

Welcome to the forums  ;D.  I expect you're right about that.

BTW, are you the same Martin who used to blog on the main board?  I remember when a newbie blogger got hammered for being a "desperate housewife", and a kind person named "Martin" set things straight.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 25, 2008, 08:47:43 AM
There are food testing strips available for Salmonella and botulism and gram negative which would
work on commercial pet food or grocey store people food if one needs to test or wants to test at home.
Probably not the most accurate tests available, but perhaps better than guessing


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 25, 2008, 08:50:23 AM
There are food testing strips available for Salmonella and botulism and gram negative which would
work on commercial pet food or grocey store people food if one needs to test or wants to test at home.
Probably not the most accurate tests available, but perhaps better than guessing


do you know where I can purchase them?  I still have a can of unopened Evanger's.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 25, 2008, 09:04:51 AM
Bridgett, I'm afraid to recommend a brand because I'm not as scientifically oriented
as some of the folks on here. But just do a google search, and I guarantee you'll
find brands. Also talk to local pharmacies and health food stores.These concerns
I believe are spreading with consumer awareness and some local people carry them.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 25, 2008, 09:05:37 AM
I am wondering if I shouldn't haul Daisy to the vet...


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 25, 2008, 09:23:03 AM
Has Daisy's diarrhea stopped? Are you seeing any other symptoms of weakness or
anything unusual? We've all had the trots from food. It would kind of be similar for
Daisy.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Dennis on April 25, 2008, 09:45:09 AM
I asked our local pet food provider and they hadn't yet seen the Evangers FDA emergency order.

They will be contacting Evangers immediately. Perhaps others might want to show the FDA notice
to their retailer store owner/manager if they stock Evangers?

I don't know how this affects existing shelf stock or already purchased food and that would be a
valid consumer/retailer question.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: LoveDogs on April 25, 2008, 10:01:16 AM
 :)

Hi all, I just saw this statement on the Evanger's website.  In my opinion Evanger's was doing the right thing and following FDA regulations.  I know I am certainly going to continue to feed my dogs Evanger's because I have seen huge benefits in their coat and energy since I put them on the food.

April 25, 2008


To Our Valued Customers:

The US Food & Drug Administration conducted a routine inspection of Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc. during February & March of 2008.  As a result of the inspection, the FDA raised questions regarding recordkeeping.  Neither Evanger’s nor FDA has received ANY customer complaints questioning the safety of Evanger’s products relating to this minor recordkeeping issue.

The FDA has not raised any questions as to the safety of any of Evanger’s products.

Although FDA has raised these questions, Evanger’s continues to make and distribute its products with FDA approval.  Evanger’s is working closely with expert process consultants, TechniCal Inc., which has already fully addressed many of FDA’s inquiries, and we expect to have all FDA concerns fully satisfied shortly.

Evanger’s is committed to providing high quality, safe, and nutritious all-natural and organic pet food, as it has done since 1935.

Respectfully,


Joel Sher
Vice President
Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Arlo on April 25, 2008, 10:13:23 AM
If the paperwork is screwed up I wonder how can the appropriate temperature at the appropriate pressure for the appropriate time be proven?  We're not talking about a belly ache here.  Botulism is often fatal.  If the last case was thirty years ago, I wouldn't be concerned.  Me, I think I'll wait for Evangers quality issues to get straightened out.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: LoveDogs on April 25, 2008, 10:57:37 AM
Can I claim that buck?  Sorry Martin, just a concerned pet owner.  Of course I saw red flags when I read the release, but I'm completely confident in the company because my dog has thrived off of their food.  We saw what happened with Menu Foods when the recall happened, they were getting ingredients from China!  If you read your dog food label, everything is completely sourced in the United States.  The company has been in business for a long time, and if there was a problem they would have been shut down a long time ago, so I will still strongly believe that this is a recordkeeping problem and there is nothing wrong with the food.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on April 25, 2008, 11:02:39 AM
Shhhheeesh.

Quote
Neither Evanger’s nor FDA has received ANY customer complaints questioning the safety of Evanger’s products relating to this minor recordkeeping issue.

I will never in this lifetime try again to get mine to eat this Brand .

Right, no customers have complained about their record keeping issue that might cause/has caused a problem the Feds think might foster botulism!!!!!!!!

They complained about the frigging pet food you idiot!!!!

How about the high level of copper in the  Pheasant?

QC issues?

Recordkeeping!!!!!!..

treat us like fools and your pet food looks really dangerous!!!!!

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Arlo on April 25, 2008, 11:06:28 AM
And the salmonella, the botulism, and the aflatoxin came from the US.  And many of us on this forum are suspicious of manufacturers' claims due to the PFI and the spin doctors.  There have been reports of quality issues; I will remain suspicious for awhile. Remember, last July people were seriously ill with botulism that originated in US canneries.  It wasn't imported from China.  GMP went into the garbage.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on April 25, 2008, 11:08:35 AM
Can I claim that buck?  Sorry Martin, just a concerned pet owner.  Of course I saw red flags when I read the release, but I'm completely confident in the company because my dog has thrived off of their food.  We saw what happened with Menu Foods when the recall happened, they were getting ingredients from China!  If you read your dog food label, everything is completely sourced in the United States.  The company has been in business for a long time, and if there was a problem they would have been shut down a long time ago, so I will still strongly believe that this is a recordkeeping problem and there is nothing wrong with the food.

Lovedogs, wonder if the recordkeeping issue is the one where they don't keep record of the consumer complaints??



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 25, 2008, 11:22:36 AM
Has Daisy's diarrhea stopped? Are you seeing any other symptoms of weakness or
anything unusual? We've all had the trots from food. It would kind of be similar for
Daisy.

Yes, it has.  She is eating Origin dry kibble with green beans.  What makes me worried is she isn't keeping up with me on our walks.  I am not letting her stop and sniff like she wants too so she could be protesting but it could be muscle stiffness.  Would the runs have stopped if it was botulism?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 25, 2008, 11:36:44 AM
Maybe you should get Daisy checked out, Bridgett, if this fatigue has been going on for more than a day or two after the diarrhea stopped. 

She does speed up when she hears the prairie dogs but on the whole she doesn't seem very enthused to be walking.  At home she seems fine.  I haven't noticed anything with her eyesight. 

Just what I need.  I am gonna sue if my dog has botulism.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 25, 2008, 11:54:27 AM
http://www.petplace.com/dogs/botulism/page1.aspx

According to this Daisy would be paralyzed. 

I am going to see how she does tonight on our walk.  She just seems reluctant certainly not paralyzed.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Katie on April 25, 2008, 12:36:47 PM
Bridgett, JMHO here. But if she seems reluctant to walk and somewhat tired, I would have her checked by the vet. She could have picked up a bacteria or still have some sore tummy issues. Hopefully it wasn't the Evangers. It does sound good that the Origin and green beans are being eaten without a problem. Even just a CBC to check her white count -

Katie


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Investigator on April 26, 2008, 05:50:08 PM
http://www.evangersdogfood.com/about/statement_Joel.html

Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Company Responds to FDA News Release

April 25, 2008

To our valued customers:

As a result of a routine inspection of the Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Company manufacturing facilities by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, the FDA recently raised questions regarding recordkeeping and other issues at the pet food producer’s facilities.

Contrary to a news release issued by the FDA Thursday, April 24, 2008, Evanger’s continues to make and distribute its products with FDA approval. Evanger’s is working closely with the FDA and already has addressed many of the FDA’s questions. Evanger’s expects to have the few remaining FDA queries fully satisfied shortly.

No Evanger’s product has been recalled, nor is there any indication that any Evanger’s product is under-processed, unsafe, or contaminated in any way.

“As our customers, retailers and distributors know, Evanger’s takes the quality and safety of its pet foods very seriously,” said Holly Sher, president of Evanger’s. “Evanger’s has a long history of using only human-grade ingredients in our products. The FDA has not called into question the wholesomeness of any ingredient we use. We are confident Evanger’s products continue to be safe, wholesome and natural, so confident that we continue to feed them daily to our own pets.”

All ingredients in Evanger’s products are sourced in the United States and all manufacturing is done in its suburban Chicago facility. The routine FDA inspection was related only to Evanger’s canned foods and is not affiliated with of production its dry pet food products.

As the United States’ oldest natural pet food company, Evanger’s products are known for their human-grade ingredients, including hand-packed meats, fish and poultry, and 100% meat and organic meals.

Consumers and distributors may contact Evanger’s customer service department at US +1 8002886796 Call  for further information. In addition, all new or updated information will be immediately posted to our Website, www.evangersdogfood.com

ABOUT EVANGER’S DOG & CAT FOOD CO., INC.

Established in 1935, EVANGER’S Dog & Cat Food Company, Inc. is the oldest natural dog food company in the United States. Today, the suburban Chicago company is as innovative as when Fred Evanger first founded it, producing a wide array of human-grade dog and cat food dinners and supplements.


Respectfully,

Joel Sher
Vice President
Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on April 26, 2008, 06:37:15 PM
Investigator- You might want to go check out my test results at www.pfpsa.org .That food made my dog really sick. I agree they are trying to make a good & safe product, however they are overlooking some basic cautions about vitamin & mineral supplementation. I was also told I would get a refund & receive info about the results of their own investigation & testing of the food. I never heard back at all, & had several unreturned phone calls. I still have a nice big bag sitting unopened because I never received the info for returning it.I ordered directly from them & had to wait for it because it was back ordered,so it can't be blamed on improper storage by me or a pet food store. I received it 3 days after it was made.It made all 5 dogs who ate from the bag sick in varying degrees. I would have more belief in the qc and care about their customers and the animals they feed if it had not been 10 mos with no answers.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on April 26, 2008, 07:14:45 PM
Hello,

My name is Brenton Weaver. I am the Rocky Mountain Territorial Manager for Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co. I would like to point out that we have had NO safety issues at our plant. The problem was with the way our paperwork was filled out. For an example, one of the problems that the FDA had was that our overnight crew labeled work done after midnight as being from the previous day. The FDA has found no problems with the quality of our foods. We actually did not know that we were, in fact, violating FDA rules on paperwork. If any of you have any questions about our products, please call our office at 1-800-288-6796, or 1-847-537-0102. I can be reached at 970-471-2913 through tomorrow, Sunday the 27th (reasonable hours, please).

Thank you for your support,
Brenton Weaver
Evanger's Pet Foods


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on April 26, 2008, 07:26:06 PM
Thank You Mr. Weaver for dropping in to explain what the problem seems to be from your end.  The way you explained it, it seems that the only problem is inaccurate paperwork.  However, the wording of the FDA order seems to pint to more than botched paperwork - something about the food in danger of being under-cooked. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on April 26, 2008, 09:48:18 PM
"I understand that this does not mean that the food was produced incorrectly, but it does seem for the best if the recordkeeping system is in compliance.  Do you know when that will happen or if it has already?" - Klondike


Most of the issues have already been resolved, and Holly & Joel, owners of Evanger's, are working with an outside consultant to ensure that the rest of our issues will hopefully be solved by early in the week. We appologize for the scare that we have given everyone, and want to ensure everyone that there is no safety problem with our food, and there is no botulism.

Thank you everyone for understanding,
Brenton Weaver
Evanger's Pet Foods
970-471-2913


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on April 26, 2008, 11:30:09 PM
Yes - thank you again, Mr. Weaver.  Many of us are truly concerned about this issue becuase many of us here feed our pets food made by and at Evengers'.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on April 27, 2008, 11:45:56 AM
No I didn't get a pm from them. I know a lot of people like their foods, I thought they looked good also. Thats why I ordered it.  I or someone else here mentioned the copper problems & posted the links on every thread here about Evangers & it has been ignored. Kind of the same response I got last year after the first 2 phone calls to them. This is why I don't use pet food anymore. I don't think the burden of testing & looking for safety issues should be on the consumer,that should be the responsibility of the pfc's.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on April 27, 2008, 12:01:44 PM
Lesliek,

I'm sorry that you did not get a response from our office. How long ago was your inquiry? We had some problems with our answering machine a while back, so there's a chance that you may have tried to contact us durring those times. If you call our office Monday-Friday from 8am to 7pm Central time, you should be able to speak to someone. Cynthia is probably the best person to contact regarding copper lvls in foods, etc.

Hope the info helps,
Brenton Weaver
Evanger's Pet Foods
970-471-2913


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on April 27, 2008, 12:43:07 PM
To answer a few of the questions that have been raised here-

There have been no botulism cases in our foods.
The problem was with our documentation and our paperwork (no major violations)
This was not an investigation by the FDA, it was a normal inspection (the first inspection since the Sher's bought the plant in 2001)

We are also not opperating under an emergency permit, the FDA report had false information in it. We are also conducting business as usual, in every state.

Anyone who has questions should call our office at 800-288-6796 or 847-537-0102.

Thanks,
Brenton Weaver
Evanger's Pet Foods


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 27, 2008, 01:22:13 PM
Mr. Weaver:

I can't tell you how much it is appreciated that a commercial pet food company would actually reply to consumer
inquiries about the safety of their pet food. I don't believe any consumer here is on an unjustified witch hunt
against any particular pet food company or pet food manufacturer. Our concerns are simply the safety of
commercial pet food since March 16, 2007.

I hope the companies and manufacturers can see that an unexplained FDA enforcement action which mentions
a potential lethal consequence to our companion animals would cause a great deal of concern for pet parents
after the recalls, illnesses, and deaths of the last year. I also hope the companies are now aware that the pet
parent consumers are now following FDA enforcement actions in the thousands as the present earliest possible source
of information about a potential problem with pet food, in addition to pet parents posting together problems they
are experiencing on the internet in hopes of spotting trends earlier than the information provided by industry.

Many pet parent consumers are very skeptical of individually calling companies and manufacturers, as many of
them tried during the recalls and either were ignored, or fluffed off and told everything was fine by companies whose
foods were subsequently recalled.

That has caused certain lack of trust issues between consumers and companies which I don't believe can be solved
by traditonal contact the company individually methods. I believe the divide and conquer and minimize company exposure
technique is not working for many consumers any more. Additionally, many of us have observed commercial industry
standards towards consumer complaints seem to be stonewalling among some companies, as evidenced by Richard Sellers
article, "Recall Realities," found here:
http://www.petfoodindustry.com/ViewArticle.aspx?id=18136

I, for one, am most glad to know this seems to be a dispute about FDA regulations and paperwork, rather than a boltulism
threat, as mentioned in the FDA notice, with your company and its products. Should the FDA confirm that, or be allowed
to confirm that, that would pretty much give confidence to many pet food consumers.

However, the old system does not seem to be working for consumers, industry, or the FDA. FDA action without explanation
causes concerns to the consumer, harm to the industry, and a lack of clarity on the part of FDA activities seemingly.
No consumer wants proprietary business information from the companies and manufacturers. What pet parents are
concerned about is commercial pet food safety. So perhaps what industry could consider, when an FDA action that
consumers are now watching occurs, is posting clearly and concisely on the company web site specific information
regarding the FDA action for all consumers to see, and/or more information in the FDA enforcement action notice regarding
threat level to pet food safety, including testing results on pet food if any health threats are of concern to the FDA.

That might prevent unjustifed consumer panic from occurring and prove more beneficial to all the concerned parties,
FDA, companies and manufacturers, and pet parent consumers. I hope the opinions of this one consumer will be
received in the spirit of improvng the situation for all of us.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on April 27, 2008, 02:26:47 PM
I posted this under the cat food site too, wasnt sure the exact right place to put it....this Consumer Affairs article has some more details and while it does sound paperwork related, it wasnt quite as simple as just that, the ending result could have had more serious consequences.....

 FDA Orders Illinois Pet Food Maker to Clean Up Its Act
Risk of botulism in Evanger's dog, cat food 
 
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/04/pet_food_recalls94.html

 
The Food and Drug Administration has issued an order requiring that Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc., in Wheeling, Ill., obtain an emergency permit from the agency before its canned pet food products enter interstate commerce.

A recent inspection revealed significant deviations from prescribed documentation of processes, equipment, and recordkeeping in the production of the company's thermally processed low-acid canned food (LACF) products, the agency said.

The FDA said the problems could result in under-processed pet foods, which can allow the survival and growth of Clostridium botulinum (C. botulinum), a bacterium that causes botulism in some animals as well as in humans.

"As outlined in the Food Protection Plan, the FDA uses a risk-based approach to locate the areas of greatest risk for foods, and targets preventive controls and inspections to those areas, " said Dr. Stephen Sundlof, director, Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition. "The FDA's authority to issue an order requiring an emergency permit is an enforcement tool designed to prevent unsafe foods from reaching consumers.”

The FDA issues an "Order of Need for Emergency Permit” if it determines that a company fails to meet the regulatory requirements to process a product that does not present a health risk.

For Evanger's to resume business, the company must document that corrective actions and processing procedures have been implemented to ensure that the finished product will not present a health hazard.

Botulism is a powerful toxin that affects the nervous system and can be fatal. The disease has been documented in dogs and cats.

Signs of botulism in animals are progressive muscle paralysis, disturbed vision, difficulty in chewing and swallowing, and progressive weakness to the body. Death is usually due to paralysis of the heart or the muscles used in breathing.

In light of human botulism illnesses and recalls that occurred due to under-processed hot dog chili sauce, and potentially under-processed canned green beans, FDA has urged all LACF processors to review their operations and the apply scientific principals and regulations that have been established to provide a safe product.

 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on April 27, 2008, 02:56:04 PM
Mr Weaver- I am also glad to see you posting here. I think it is important to maintain contact between concerned pet parents and pfc's.
  My problem started in May 2007,I spoke to Cynthia & then Joel & was told he would call me back about the results of their own investigation. I waited 2 weeks & called back,again spoke to Joel who told me they hadn't found any answers yet. Again he said they would contact me. I gave him my personal info and my invoice # . He said I would receive a refund and notice of how to return the food. That is the last time I spoke to anyone other than the receptionist or answering machine. The other calls were in June & July 2007. I didn't even bother to contact the company about my test results,I assumed you were not interested due to lack of contact to me.While I am glad to see this being addressed here, I find it hard to believe that you had phone or computer problems for 3 months.I also find it hard to believe that 3 different people lost my contact information. And since I ordered it from your website it should have been in your records anyway. I would hope that you don't get so many complaints about your food making a dog this ill that it gets lost in the complaint files. I will call one more time,and give my information again. After that if I get nowhere I will continue to tell people about my experience with the company and food and allow them to make their own decisions about whether they want to use it. Leslie.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 27, 2008, 03:52:49 PM
Cancel the "and/or" in my post, Mr. Weaver. Just make it and information from the FDA
in an effort to make things better for all of us.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on April 28, 2008, 04:37:16 AM
I appologize, but I'm leaving on my honeymoon today. If anyone needs information regarding the FDA matter, please contact our office. Thank you everyone for understanding what is going on with us...

Well, I'm off to drop my dog and two cats off at my new in-laws. Everyone take care, and if anyone has anything new they want to ask me, I will be able to answer questions after I get back on the 9th of next month.

Thanks again,
Brenton Weaver
Evanger's Pet Foods


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on April 28, 2008, 06:30:40 AM
Hmmm, I thought the above posts did have some questions in them...... :-\  Oh well.....sigh


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 28, 2008, 07:16:23 AM
Me, too, Sandi. Polite but sincere questions of factual evidence and tired old
pet food industry public relations spin.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 28, 2008, 07:42:02 AM
I took Daisy to the vet on Friday, that is why I disappeared. 

As soon as she greeted me at the door with her shining little face, I knew she would be alright.  I still took her to the vet, though.  The vet thanked me for letting her know about the FDA concerns about Evangers.  She said it was also a good thing I brought Daisy in because that would be about the time Daisy's blood would be showing any signs of illness.  The vet took some blood and said she would call me today and let me know.  But Daisy is acting just fine and her poo situation has been fine as well. 

So all is well!

I want to thank Evangers for coming on board here and being ready to answer our questions about their products. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catbird on April 28, 2008, 07:45:56 AM
Phew!  Glad to hear Daisy is OK.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 28, 2008, 07:49:41 AM
Me too!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on April 28, 2008, 07:50:34 AM
Me three!  ;)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 28, 2008, 07:51:43 AM
I really hope Daisy is well, Bridgett.
I'm not as sure that all questions have been answered.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 28, 2008, 08:12:28 AM
Oh Daisy is fine.  She has a spring in her step again!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 28, 2008, 09:20:33 AM
Sandpaper kisses from the survivors at my house to Daisy and you. I am really glad.

Seeing posted testing results on botulism and mineralization questions, and clarification from
the FDA on any issues is the after-2007 pet food company response I more had in mind to answer directly
some of the posted consumer concerns, and I don't believe that's been done in the best interests of
all concerned. Perhaps I just don't know where to look, but would like to be informed.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catwoods on April 28, 2008, 12:28:37 PM
I'm glad that Daisy's OK, Bridgett.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Katie on April 28, 2008, 12:55:09 PM
Bridgett,

So glad Daisy is Ok.

Katie


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 28, 2008, 02:08:50 PM
She appreciates everyones concern! :)

The vet called back.  The only thing they found was elevated liver enzymes.  She wants me to bring Daisy back in a month to have it rechecked.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 28, 2008, 02:24:46 PM
Very glad that Daisy is feeling much better.  But something must have caused the elevated liver enzymes so hope that improves by next month or the cause identified.  Let us know how she does with the next test.  Poco is concerned.

Yeah, that has me concerned.  The vet said it wasn't really high enough to be immediately concerned about it.  Just to bring her back in 30 days to recheck that test. 

Hope everything will be okay with that.  UGH!

Worry fur-parent all over again.  This time I will try not to burst into tears like Friday. UGH!  Hysterical pet owner here!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 28, 2008, 02:44:01 PM
oh excuse me...pet gaurdian....


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 28, 2008, 03:01:31 PM
Pretty neat guardian, I'd say. Hugs.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Bridgett on April 28, 2008, 03:03:11 PM
 :)  awww thanks!

Darn worthless ingrates have me wrapped so tight around their paws....


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on April 28, 2008, 04:19:18 PM
Bridgett- You may want to talk to the vet about milk thistle for the liver enzymes. Remy had that also.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JustMe on April 28, 2008, 04:21:01 PM
Came across this.

http://outrage.typepad.com/risk/2008/04/when-the-fda-sa.html


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catbird on April 28, 2008, 04:30:16 PM
Came across this.

http://outrage.typepad.com/risk/2008/04/when-the-fda-sa.html

wow. So we are not all full of hot air when we say we're not reassured.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Arlo on April 28, 2008, 04:34:42 PM
"Don't worry, boys and girls, everything's fine."
Rings of PR firms to me. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catbird on April 28, 2008, 04:37:31 PM
PR was what I thought of all the posts here from the beginning.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Arlo on April 28, 2008, 04:40:08 PM
I wonder why PR firms think patronizing customers is a workable plan.  I would think it makes people resentful and suspicious.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catbird on April 28, 2008, 04:54:55 PM
Really good find, JustMe.  I note that people are posting comments at the bottom of the story you linked to, also.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on April 28, 2008, 05:00:47 PM
OK, after reading Brenton Weavers information, it appeared to me there were conflicting statements, FDA saying something is wrong, at least wrong enough to go thru all of the press release, etc and Evangers saying everything is fine.  So I decided to contact FDA myself and ask them more about the conflicting information afterall Evangers is saying that FDA's statement had false statements in it.  Well I got a response back from FDA late this afternoon.  I am not posting the persons name who responded out of respect for them.  This is FDA's response to my inquiry about the conflicting info we are receiving:


The firm had serious deviations form the mandatory provisions of 21 CFR parts 108 and 113, including lack of documentation of process adequacy and lack of processing filing with FDA for most of their processes.  The firm was operating the retorts improperly (not venting), failing to record critical process information including initial temperatures, temperature recording devices were recording temperatures higher than the mercury-in glass thermometers. The firm's retort supervisors had not attended the required training schools.
 
As correctly stated in the press release, the firm is operating under an Order of Need for Emergency Permit, which means it cannot introduce or deliver for introduction in interstate commerce any of its low--acid canned pet food. The regulation does allow the firm to have a processing authority evaluate the  processing of each lot for adequacy and to submit release requests in writing to FDA for specific lots.


Edited to add:  I am cross-posting this at the other thread also.


 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Arlo on April 28, 2008, 05:05:09 PM
Sandi K, so it sounds like there is no way to know whether the cans reached high enough temperatures to kill the botulism bacteria. Maybe the cans are fine, but we have no proof.  >:(

Thank you for posting that response.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on April 28, 2008, 05:08:56 PM
Sandi K,

Whew!  That's enough for me.  Will have to go through the pantry as I may have a few cans in there.

Hope the 'possums are hungry tonight.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on April 28, 2008, 05:11:31 PM
OK, after reading Brenton Weavers information, it appeared to me there was conflicting statements, FDA saying something is wrong, at least wrong enough to go thru all of the press release, etc and Evangers saying everything is fine.  So I decided to contact FDA myself and ask them more about the conflicting information afterall Evangers is saying that FDA's statement had false statements in it.  Well I got a response back from FDA late this afternoon.  I am not posting the persons name who responded out of respect for them.  This is FDA's response to my inquiry about the conflicting info we are receiving:


The firm had serious deviations form the mandatory provisions of 21 CFR parts 108 and 113, including lack of documentation of process adequacy and lack of processing filing with FDA for most of their processes.  The firm was operating the retorts improperly (not venting), failing to record critical process information including initial temperatures, temperature recording devices were recording temperatures higher than the mercury-in glass thermometers. The firm's retort supervisors had not attended the required training schools.
 
As correctly stated in the press release, the firm is operating under an Order of Need for Emergency Permit, which means it cannot introduce or deliver for introduction in interstate commerce any of its low--acid canned pet food. The regulation does allow the firm to have a processing authority evaluate the  processing of each lot for adequacy and to submit release requests in writing to FDA for specific lots.


Edited to add:  I am cross-posting this at the other thread also.

And that takes us back, in a sense, to the Castleberry problem.

http://www.itchmo.com/fda-orders-shutdown-of-castleberry-food-plant-4880

"In July 2007, over 80 types of canned food products and 4 types of dog food produced by Castleberry Foods were recalled due to possible contamination with Clostridium botulinum.

"FDA issued an ‘Order of Need for Emergency Permit’ to the firm at that time. This means that the firm was not able to ship its products in interstate commerce until it received a permit from FDA. The agency issues an ‘Order of Need for Emergency Permit’ if it determines that a firm does not meet requirements of the regulations pertaining to the manufacture of thermally processed low-acid foods or acidified foods, such that the safety of the food is in question.

"FDA believes the company remedied the previously existing food safety problems and the processing procedures will result in a finished product that does not present a health hazard.

"The firm requested an emergency permit and FDA issued an emergency permit after a review of a firm’s documented corrective actions and processing procedures. In September 2007, FDA issued a permit that allowed the firm to ship products that were processed using the firm’s machinery (the vertical still retorts) not associated with the recalled product. None of these retorts was believed to be linked to the previous C. botulinum contamination.

"During a recent inspection of these processing lines FDA found that the vertical still retorts were not being operated in a manner as required, raising the possibility that some cans processed in these retorts could be under-processed. On March 7, 2008 FDA sent a letter to the company suspending the temporary emergency permit.

"No products have been identified as contaminated. FDA has asked the firm to verify the safety of all products produced since the emergency permit was issued."

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/031108/bus_190511.shtml

March 11, 2008

"Federal concerns about the operation of food processing equipment inside Castleberry's Food Co. prompted this week's shutdown of the Augusta chili maker.

"Most of the plant's 330 employees did not report to work Monday because the U.S. Food and Drug Administration revoked the company's temporary operating permit.

"That permit was issued in September in the aftermath of a last summer's $35 million botulism recall.

"An FDA spokeswoman said the permit was revoked because inspectors found "deviations" in how some of the processing equipment was being operated.

""The deviations could have caused the food processed to be unsafe. Because under-processing by Castleberry in the past resulted in a botulism outbreak and because Castleberry was operating under an emergency permit, FDA revoked the emergency permit," said agency spokeswoman Stephanie Kwisnek.

"Castleberry's officials emphasized Monday that the current shutdown does not involve a new recall.

""We expect to have a quick resolution," said Dave Melbourne, Castleberry's senior vice president.

""We are working quickly and closely with the FDA to answer its questions and hope to resume production as soon as we've addressed them.""

Cross posted from the other thread.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 28, 2008, 05:43:45 PM
"We need to applaud the FDA for finding and acting on issues in an effort to protect our companion animals."
FDA, thank you for taking action. Thank you for responding rapidly to a consumer inquiry. I wish you were free to
publish your results on the issues, but I believe there are some restrictions on that imposed by stakeholders, not the consuming
public who really would appreciate access to assist them in consumer choices and worries about furkid health issues.

Public relations spin by companies is no longer enough post-2007 recalls without backup reliable data to ease consumer
lack of trust and genuine concerns for pet food safety in general, which the pet food industry has earned all by itself
through actions over the last several years, and especially since March 16, 2007. Some companies killed our companion
animals, but pet food companies also seriously injured a system which had generated huge profits for them for some
time. It's not working any more and needs drastic revision is my opinion and I think that of many other consumers.

I don't believe favorable test result shopping by industry is going to be taken very seriously either by the consuming public
generally in the present environment of lack of trust on the part of many consumers. The PFI and AAFCO had full control and
trust, and very seriously called it all into question in 2007 for many consumers I believe. Industry seems to be stuck responding
in an old pattern which may no longer apply to consumer concerns.




Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Nabiya on April 28, 2008, 05:52:51 PM
SandiK, thank you for taking time to contact the FDA as a lot of pet parents are rightfully concerned.  We all must remain vigilant about all commercial pet foods today and forever I believe. 

3cat, you really summed it up on both sides of the fence.  Thank you for reminding us that just because they are small or independent they still need to have the same scrutiny by consumers as the big guys.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 28, 2008, 06:34:18 PM
All of us here, myself included, have lived through this together for over the last year with the same goal,
change to the system which killed our companion animals/furkids. Here's hoping we can accomplish that
for all the posters who are here, old or new, and all the furkids who suffered and those to come. Everyone
has contributed, whatever food, whatever company, whatever manufacturer.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on April 28, 2008, 06:46:05 PM
"The firm's retort supervisors had not attended the required training schools."

Oh my lord!!!...


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on April 28, 2008, 07:30:09 PM
For those of you who want to see the criteria for inspecting plants which process low-acid canned foods:

http://www.fda.gov/ora/inspect_ref/igs/lacfpt1/lacfpt101.html

Cross-posted to the other thread.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 28, 2008, 08:08:28 PM
There are some worrisome things in reprocessing product depending on
how it is done that are described beginning on page 12 and following there, menusux.
I don't know that they are applicable here at all, of course. And, Kaffe, the schools
are described at the end.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on April 28, 2008, 09:00:55 PM
These processes are very complex and how you do them seems to determine whether you are making food or biological weapons.

Sorry, can't resist... this sounds like some days in my kitchen!!!!   ;D

Anyway, it appears from Sandi's communication with the FDA that wool is being attempted to be pulled over our collective eyes and cotton stuffed in our collective brains.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: jenny on April 29, 2008, 02:17:00 AM
Thanks Sandi for your efforts.  Big or small, these companies need to be accountable.

Jenny


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on April 29, 2008, 03:21:45 AM
Big thank you to SandiK for not only contacting the FDA with her questions but also for sharing them with us... and also I am pleased to see the FDA responding to her... this is progress---of course not as fast as we want---but it still is a step in the right direction ....This is what can happen when many are working together ;) :) for the same cause!!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on April 29, 2008, 04:00:10 AM
Thanks to Sandi and everyone for your work on this.

Just wondering, but has Evanger's changed ownership or taken on an equity partner?

Sounds like they may need a new management team.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on April 29, 2008, 05:45:00 AM
Good article, RC.

Let's hope their "big plans" include adding a QA/QC department.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on April 29, 2008, 05:57:12 AM
Kathy,  I think the implication Evangers made that it was only a problem with paperwork was maybe wishful thinking on their part because FDA indicates it was a little more than just that.  This was what FDA said when I asked them:

"The firm had serious deviations form the mandatory provisions of 21 CFR parts 108 and 113, including lack of documentation of process adequacy and lack of processing filing with FDA for most of their processes.  The firm was operating the retorts improperly (not venting), failing to record critical process information including initial temperatures, temperature recording devices were recording temperatures higher than the mercury-in glass thermometers. The firm's retort supervisors had not attended the required training schools.
 
As correctly stated in the press release, the firm is operating under an Order of Need for Emergency Permit, which means it cannot introduce or deliver for introduction in interstate commerce any of its low--acid canned pet food. The regulation does allow the firm to have a processing authority evaluate the  processing of each lot for adequacy and to submit release requests in writing to FDA for specific lots."
I dont know why Evangers said they arent operating under emergency permit but FDA says they are.  Maybe the info hadnt been given to everyone at their company?  Maybe they arent operating under emergency permit but are supposed to be?  I dont know.  I also dont know why they would say that FDA's news release had false and misleading info in it, what was false?  FDA seemed to be pretty clear about the info they provided.  

One thing I am happy about though is that it appears that FDA did the very thing we have all wanted them to do in the past and that is they prevented something from potentially turning very bad for our pets.  When I asked FDA about everything, they responded promptly.  I sent them a thank you which is something I didnt think I would be doing with FDA anytime soon.  Now I just wish there was enough personnel to be able to inspect all the other pet food companies but I doubt that will be happening.    





Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on April 29, 2008, 06:40:39 AM
Sorry, Kathy, I see that now, havent had my full ration of coffee yet this morning..... ;)  Thank you too for this info, its very interesting.   


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 29, 2008, 07:37:22 AM
Given the FDA explanation of possible bacterial growth consequences of not reaching
proper temperatures in processing LAC pet food and the possible difficulties of isolating
and reprocessing affected product, if ever there was a time for a company to come forward
and say this is what we are doing to monitor the problem, if any, these are our recent test results on pet
food safety, in one consumer inexpert opinion this would be a good time to do it. If you want brand
loyalty by consumers generally worried about commercial pet food safety, that might be
a better way after March 16, 2007. No consumer knows what has gone on here, only the
company and the FDA.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on April 29, 2008, 08:05:23 AM
Hopefully we will hear more of this from both Evangers and the FDA --but at the very least-even if it was "only paperwork" that was the problem--after knowing what the "paperwork problem"  with ChemNutra turned into---this is still a huge problem that does need to be made public!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 30, 2008, 09:03:07 AM
It would really be nice to see safety testing results on product from a manufacturer
whose plant runs, I believe, 24/7 around the clock. No company has published such
results for the consumer to see that I'm aware of to indicate their commitment to
pet food safety first and foremost.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on April 30, 2008, 09:15:47 AM
You all might be interested in a blog over at PetSit USA......http://petsitusa.com/blog/?p=1125


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on April 30, 2008, 11:25:28 AM
Thanks for that link, SandiK!  So... Joel has responded.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 30, 2008, 11:46:18 AM
"My pets rely on my due diligence." Good point, Kaffe. I'm not sure I understand
why companies are so reluctant to let consumers have knowledge of safety testing
and quality assurance programs and their results. Our furkids are certainly relying
on the results.

I also didn't know that the FDA could demand recalls per Joel's remarks. I thought
that was something up for consideration, but not among their powers at this time.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: sharky on April 30, 2008, 12:05:53 PM
"My pets rely on my due diligence." Good point, Kaffe. I'm not sure I understand
why companies are so reluctant to let consumers have knowledge of safety testing
and quality assurance programs and their results. Our furkids are certainly relying
on the results.

I also didn't know that the FDA could demand recalls per Joel's remarks. I thought
that was something up for consideration, but not among their powers at this time.

I would like to see the link saying the FDA TODAY has the right to recall pet food ... they were given Broader recall on Human food stuff s ...


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on April 30, 2008, 01:43:17 PM
"My pets rely on my due diligence." Good point, Kaffe. I'm not sure I understand
why companies are so reluctant to let consumers have knowledge of safety testing
and quality assurance programs and their results. Our furkids are certainly relying
on the results.

I also didn't know that the FDA could demand recalls per Joel's remarks. I thought
that was something up for consideration, but not among their powers at this time.

I would like to see the link saying the FDA TODAY has the right to recall pet food ... they were given Broader recall on Human food stuff s ...

Quote
http://petsitusa.com/blog/?p=1125

"This is a boiler plate response by the FDA in any situation when it refers to canning. If the FDA had believed that there was even the slightest possibility of product contamination they would have demanded a recall. You will note that there is no mention of that in there release.The CRC has no input as to processing. They only inspect the ingredients. As I indicated prviously, the FDA s release is innacurate and misleading. It is unfortunate that whoever is in charge of posting these releases does not take the time to report accuratley the facts. The way the FDA reported this event is a big thing, the observation that FDA made and questioned concerning recordkeeping is not that big of a thing".

http://www.fda.gov/ora/compliance_ref/rpm/chapter7/ch7-5.html#SUB7-5-3

7-5-3 - FDA Ordered Recalls

Various sections of the law authorize FDA to order a firm to recall a product. Each is discussed separately below. If the recall is FDA ordered, the agency will issue a written order to the firm to recall.

Mandatory Device Recalls
Under Section 518(e) of the Act, if the agency finds that there is a reasonable probability that a device intended for human use would cause serious adverse health consequences or death, FDA has the authority to order the manufacturer, importer, distributor, retailer, or any appropriate person to immediately cease distribution of the device, to immediately notify health professionals and device user facilities of FDA's order, and to instruct such professionals and facilities to cease use of the device.

Mandatory Recall of Biological Products
The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 amended the Public Health Service Act (PHS Act) to provide recall authority for biological products (42 U.S.C. 262). If a determination is made that a batch, lot, or other quantity of a product licensed under the PHS Act presents an imminent or substantial hazard to the public health, the Secretary has the authority to issue an order for its immediate recall.

Mandatory Recall of Human Tissue Intended for Transplantation
On November 21, 2004, FDA issued regulations requiring human cell, tissue, and cellular and tissue-based product (HCT/P) establishments to follow current good tissue practice (CGTP), which governs the methods used in, and the facilities and controls used for, the manufacture of HCT/Ps; record keeping; and the establishment of a quality program (GTP final rule 69 FR 68612). FDA promulgated the new regulations under the legal authority of section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (PHS Act) (42 U.S.C. 264). The regulations at 21 CFR 1271.440 include a provision for orders of retention, recall, and/or destruction, and a new provision for orders of cessation of manufacturing in certain circumstances.

Infant Formula
The Infant Formula Act of 1980 and its 1986 amendments mandate that an infant formula manufacturer promptly notify the Secretary if the manufacturer has knowledge that reasonably supports the conclusion that an infant formula shipment may not provide the required nutrients or may be otherwise adulterated or misbranded.

Interstate Milk Shipments
The FDA does not ordinarily classify or audit interstate milk shippers (IMS) product recalls where such actions have been, or are being, handled expeditiously and appropriately by the state(s). The FDA district office in which the recalling firm is located must be ensured that all states involved in an IMS plant's recall are participating in ensuring removal of the product from commerce and that, when appropriate, states issue warnings to protect the public health. In the event that FDA determines that the states are unable to effect the recall actions necessary, the agency will classify, publish, and audit the recall, including issuance of a public warning when indicated.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/recall2.html

The recall of a defective or possibly harmful consumer product often is highly publicized in newspapers and on news broadcasts.  This is especially true when a recall involves foods, drugs, cosmetics, medical devices, and other products regulated by FDA.  Despite this publicity, FDA's role in recall activities is often misunderstood not only by consumers, but also by the news media, and occasionally even by the regulated industry.  The following headlines, which appeared in two major daily newspapers, are good examples of that misunderstanding: "FDA Orders Peanut Butter Recall," and "FDA Orders 6,500 Cases of Red-Dyed Mints Recalled."

The headlines are wrong in indicating that the Agency can "order" these recalls.   The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, (the law) does not generally authorize FDA to "order" a manufacturer to recall a food, cosmetic or supplement.  The agency may request a product recall if the firm is not willing to remove dangerous products from the market without FDA's written request.  Only when a medical device, human tissue products, and infant formula pose a risk to human health; that the law specifically authorizes FDA to prescribe a recall and to rule on the scope and extent of the same*.

The only food product FDA has "absolute" recall authority over is baby formula--they can get involved in the recall of contaminated milk only when states' health authorities are unable or unwilling to do it.  This is what's been in the news for quite a while--FDA asking for broader recall powers from Congress and also the money needed to enforce them.  As it stands this minute, they have no broader recall powers than the above.

The agency is able to issue Import Alerts and detain high-risk shipments of food products until their importers can prove through independent testing that their shipments are safe, but they are not able to either ban or do any food recalls other than for contaminated baby formula on their own--they have not been given any legal power to do more than that.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 30, 2008, 02:04:03 PM
Thank you, menusux, for the clarification on FDA recall authority.
A couple of company representative comments seem to be at odds
with FDA statements. Lacking sufficient access to information,
consumers seem left to draw their own conclusions.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on April 30, 2008, 02:17:41 PM
3 Cat--

It's my hope that the consumers now realize what the legal situation truly is re: FDA and recalls and that this has been some enlightment for those company reps who are/were unaware that their statements are without fact. Spell Checker would also be a plus.  ;D


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on April 30, 2008, 02:24:46 PM
Yes, thanks Menusux for the clarification of FDA's recall powers (or lack thereof). 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 30, 2008, 04:26:18 PM
Manufacturers, however, are not limited by FDA recall powers if there is any
question as to product status and are able to voluntarily recall product. I
believe most of the manufacturers after March 16, 2007, including Menu Foods,
conducted voluntary or what were sometimes termed precautionary recalls.

There were some rather lengthy delays in some of those recalls in 2007, I believe.
Any worried consumer might want to consider keeping aside cans of product if they
have had what they feel may be issues based on experience.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kb on May 01, 2008, 01:08:13 AM
It would really be nice to see safety testing results on product from a manufacturer
whose plant runs, I believe, 24/7 around the clock. No company has published such
results for the consumer to see that I'm aware of to indicate their commitment to
pet food safety first and foremost.

I thought I remembered some company posting their test results after the recalls.  Don't think it was Natural Balance but looks like you can check their test results now.

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/PetFoodScreening.tpl
 Natural Balance Pet Foods has created this new "Buy With Confidence" feature
for pet owners to monitor the testing of their pets’ food.

January, 2008

As of December, 2007, we have added screening for:
Ochratoxin, Zearalenone and Fumonisin

to our standard testing protocol which already includes testing for:
Melamine
Cyanuric Acid
Aflatoxin
and DON (Vomitoxin)

We have taken samples from each date code of Natural Balance product and subjected them to our testing protocol. With the new "Buy With Confidence" service, you are now able to view these test results. When you see your "Best By" code in the results section, you will know that the samples we tested from that date code met the FDA guidelines for the tests listed.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 01, 2008, 08:07:31 AM
Thanks, kb. I didn't know that. Seems like a step
in a direction pet food consumers would like to see
more of.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JustMe on May 01, 2008, 02:15:58 PM
kb,

I had forgotten about this.  Thanks for the reminder.

Yes, they have had the testing section set up for quite awhile now.  You put in your product information and it gives you the test results for that batch.  It had to be at least last summer.  That's the last time I checked my can information.  It would be nice if all the companies had something similar on this sort of scale.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 02, 2008, 07:14:04 AM
My statement over at PetSitUSA:  http://petsitusa.com/blog/?p=1125

Mr. Sher, while you obviously like to discredit FDA and their actions, I am very, very pleased that they came forward with this action and potentially prevented more deaths and illnesses in our pets. This is exactly what we, the consumer, have been wanting FDA to do and I hope they continue with more inspections of your facilities as well as other pet food facilities. The pet food companies want to be able to continue on with business as normal after the 2007 pet food recalls and its obvious by your statements that the companies dont feel they should be monitored or inspected. Your attitude towards FDA and the recent findings at your plant show the exact reason why pet food companies should not be allowed to police themselves and I will be making my feelings very clear at the upcoming FDA Pet Food Safety hearing this month.

I might add that I contacted FDA myself for clarification on this issue at your plant. They have confirmed exactly what their notice said, plus some additional details that werent specifically stated in their notice. So perhaps the pet food companies can stop pointing the finger of blame at others and just take responsibility for issues that are self-created. That would be a good start in winning back the confidence of the consumer.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: petslave on May 02, 2008, 07:28:11 AM
Natural Balance's testing & posting results is a good start, but I'd like to see it extend further.  What about all the supplement problems that have been coming up?  That list won't pick those up. 

PF companies should not only be testing their end product for the few problems that have caused mass deaths, they also need to buy from sources that legitimately test & stand by the safety of each ingredient that is being used.  And we should be able to see exactly where each of those ingredients comes from & the test results of that ingredient.  Until then (which will never happen), I still won't fully trust any pet food on the market today.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on May 02, 2008, 07:28:36 AM
Bravo Sandi K....

I do look forward to Mr Sher coming back here when he returns from his honeymoon---so he can read what the FDA emailed to you....and then see what he can tell us about that statement! >:(



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 02, 2008, 08:43:34 AM
I believe it's Mr. Weaver, a company rep, on his honeymoon.

I agree that we need even more inclusive testing results than NB, but it's a good step.
There are issues of variable vitamin dosages, mineral amounts, possible toxins, overall
batch guaranteed analyses, that a lot of consumers would be very happy
to find posted by batch and date code lookup on pet food company web sites. It certainly
is one confirmation that the company involved has a quality assurance program and is food
safety testing each and every batch it makes that the consumer is likely to purchase, rather
than leaving the pet food consumer to guess about company quality assurance programs
and/or food safety testing practices by not providing any information.

Even though there are still some questions here and apparent conflicts in company and
FDA statements, you do have to give this company credit for coming forward and
trying to speak directly to consumers.

I believe that the level of documentation that the pet food consumer is looking for after 2007 has not
made it to the "radar screen" of a lot of the companies yet.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: skinnydog on May 03, 2008, 04:07:07 PM
Hi there.  I'm new here.  I just wanted to thank you all for posting this information.  I switched to Evangers in 2007, after the recalls.  I found this thread because I was in the process of recommending it to someone whose dog has GI issues and googled the company in order to get the link to its website. 

To my horror, I came across the FDA information instead.   :o

Suffice to say, if the FDA is warning us to stay away, that's all I need to know.  After all, it's not like the FDA acts quickly or recklessly.  Most of the time, the complaint is that the FDA failed to act.

We will return what is left of our last case of canned food and go back to the drawing board. 

Thanks again for the information.

P.S  To the Evanger's company rep. -- your words ring hollow in light of the explanation by the FDA to Sandi's e-mail.  >:(


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 03, 2008, 05:08:17 PM
Yes it is.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 03, 2008, 06:58:30 PM
Leslie K, I was wondering if you had a chance to call Evangers again like you had said earlier and did you have success this time with them? 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 03, 2008, 07:16:40 PM
Sandi- I can't post about it yet,hopefully soon.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 03, 2008, 08:00:52 PM
I understand Leslie K, please forgive me for prying.   ;)       


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: skinnydog on May 03, 2008, 08:28:09 PM
Hold on -- I just read (in a prior post) that Felidae is made by Evangers. Does that mean Canidae is made by them as well?  That is the food we feed another dog.  This is nuts.

How did you guys learn which company makes which food(s)? And why do we have to be private detectives in order to find out what we are feeding our pets.  >:(

Thanks.   


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 03, 2008, 08:39:21 PM
Hold on -- I just read (in a prior post) that Felidae is made by Evangers. Does that mean Canidae is made by them as well?  That is the food we feed another dog.  This is nuts.

How did you guys learn which company makes which food(s)? And why do we have to be private detectives in order to find out what we are feeding our pets.  >:(

Thanks.   

The canned Canidae and Felidae are made at Evangers, yes.  We learnt by calling both Evangers and Canidae many many moons ago.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 03, 2008, 08:55:28 PM
skinnydog- You can find some of the manufacturers & the foods they make at www.thepetfoodlist.com . There is a list of brands & a list of manufacturers. But like Kaffe said,a lot of it we have found out during phone calls.They usually will tell you only after you say you will not buy a food unless you know where it is made.They almost never are willing to put it in writing.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 03, 2008, 08:56:52 PM
Skinnydog, first of all welcome to Itchmo!  And yes, you are so right, we've had to almost become detectives to get answers.  I think we all learned with the 2007 pet food recalls that we werent getting upfront, honest answers and were getting brushed aside and basically being told to move along by pet food companies.  There are still so many unanswered questions, so many questions we didnt even know to ask until the pet food recalls when I and many others lost their pets and so many here have sick pets from eating the tainted food.  But there are so many great people here, it still amazes me every day the info that this group finds out.  Anyhow, new "detectives" are always welcome!   ;)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: skinnydog on May 03, 2008, 09:03:37 PM
Thanks very much!   I thought I did pretty good investigative work before switching foods in 07, but obviously I didn't go far enough!  Live and learn.  This is frustrating. 

I'm really bummed by this news.  The dogs LOVE Evangers and Canidae and we haven't had any stomach issues with either food.  Drat.  

Sandi, I'm so sorry you lost your pet.  My heart goes out to you. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on May 04, 2008, 03:10:42 AM
skinnydog----welcome to itchmo. :D..glad you see how crazy this is to have to be detectives to know what we are feeding our pets---stick around and help us try to begin to change this!!  We have lots of good people here doing all different things here and behind the scenes!! It is time to change the PFI and we need all the voices we can get! ;)
Carol


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 04, 2008, 03:51:45 AM
Hi Skinnydog,

Welcome to Itchmo  ;D.

We're committed to finding safe food for our pets, and have been relentless in learning about what goes on within the pet food industry.  It's not a pretty picture.

About Canidae/Felidae.  I tried to get info from the company about their food, but they were not forthcoming with info of any kind, so I didn't use their food.  I need to revisit my notes, but I believe their dry food is (or was) made in Texas (but let me double check).  At the time, I was concerned that their co-packer might be Diamond.

If you have any questions, please ask and we'll try to help.  Again, great to have you here.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: petslave on May 04, 2008, 07:53:06 AM
Another source that managed to get manufacturer info out to us this year is the Whole Dog Journal.  This year they said they wouldn't consider any food for their Approved Food list unless the companies would reveal their manufacturers.  That brought out some listings that we didn't have available before.

According to their list, Canidae dry food is made by Western Pet Food Co./Canidae division, Hamlin TX.  It says the equipment is used to produce only their food, and they do very extensive testing of all ingredients, both in-house & by an independent lab, which tests for 250 contaminants.  Still, there have been complaints about the dry food on the Consumer Affairs website, so not sure what's going on with that food line.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 04, 2008, 08:47:35 AM
The consumer's "radar screens" have expanded considerably as a direct legacy of March 16, 2007.

The government is even trying to improve communication with stakeholders:
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/News_&_Events/2008_news_releases/index.asp
FSIS to Co-Host Public Meeting to Discuss Strategies for Improved Coordination During Foodborne Outbreaks (Apr 25, 2008)

When is industry going to expand its awareness of the kind of information the post-2007 recall consumer wants?
Glitzy ads and unsupported reassurance statements don't seem to be it for many consumers.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 04, 2008, 09:12:41 AM
While we can't expect "fast" government action, as consumers, we have a voice.

Perhaps with current issues like Evanger's and Nutro, and for future issues, that a Pet Food Consumer Petition be established where consumers can send a petition/letter drive to the pet food company being addressed and copy it to the FDA/CVM/PFI/AAFCO/APPMA/FTC and some media outlets.  Frankly, we're at the mercy of all of them.  This might be a take-charge of our consumer rights action plan to advance the issues.. what do you all think?

One thing we have learned is that adding our own words to the petitions makes them more effective.

I'd nominate Sandi for her most excellent response FDA query & response to Joel Sher and 5CatMom who is soooo organized to write them  ;D
 
Short recap of the Background of the issue;
Personal comments;
Results desired.

-----------

I'm sitting here trying to think of the site where I do so many of them... wonder if they'd help set one up like that with the emails built into the function like theirs...

Maybe some of the sites can get together, Petitionz, Defendourpets, PFPSA, or even Itchmo main and set up a page for that somewhere, anywhere..


I remembered.. this is an example:

http://ucsaction.org/campaign/4_17_08_improve_climate_bill/?qp_source=wacucs%5factaspotlight









Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 04, 2008, 12:48:23 PM
Offly-irked, you're not alone in wanting independent consumer watchdog action on oversight of
problems experienced by consumers and confirmatory safety testing on commercial of pet food.
There's been many threads posted on Itchmo in the last year advocating that.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 04, 2008, 12:58:13 PM
Offly,  thank you for your nomination but its really all of us together who do the best job of all.  ;) One person finds something, like in this case 3Cat and reports it here and then we all take action in our own ways that bring about more info.  Carol, 5Cat, Trudy, Leslie K, Catbird, MaineCoonPeg, JustMe, Laurie, Klondike, Petslave, Kaffers, Nabiya, Menusux and so many others who's names I havent mentioned were here long before me and doing ALOT of stuff that has led to our voices (and our pets voices) being heard.  If you can figure out how to go about doing something like this, I know we would all join together to get a petition going, I think its a GREAT idea!!!!   


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 04, 2008, 03:09:03 PM
Sandi, I agree, it's been a massive group effort from everybody.

What I mostly and very unclearly was referring to was your post to Joel Sher and getting that set up with the background, (can condition, FDA, Evanger's responses, FDA info you got) and your statement as a finishing paragraph in getting this done first for Evanger's.  It was short, concise and to the point. (Something I'm incapable of :) )  Evanger's keeps saying no botulism, but there has been no indication that they have even tested for it. I asked and got no response as of yet.. either from an email inquiry or a post to Sher asking if they had tested.

There have been some posts about the condition of the cans around and response to inquiries, and I think I have some bookmarked. Maybe others have direct experience with checking on them?

I'm 10thumbs when it comes to css or cgi webforms to accomplish this. Shibadiva? I think you mentioned doing websites? So, a person with website form email skills would be part of getting this done. I'd be happy to open my website for somebody to load the web stuff, or to tell me how to do it.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 04, 2008, 03:59:17 PM
Offly, your ideas and thoughts are welcome and appreciated. As Sandi said, one thing
leads to another.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: skinnydog on May 04, 2008, 05:12:35 PM
Thanks very much for the welcome and info.  It's great to be a part of such a pro-active group of consumers/animal lovers.  I thought I was pretty good, but feel like a slug compared to a lot of you! 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 04, 2008, 05:43:37 PM
http://efoodalert.blogspot.com/2008/04/safety-warning-on-evangers-dog-and-cat.html
Under Deb's comment:
What I gather from talking to Holly is that this is basically the usual bureaucratic technical BS. There has been "NOTHING DEEMED WRONG WITH THE PRODUCT"...it's apparently all a paperwork issue to satisfy FDA. I was also told Evangers hired a third party to check the products and NOTHING was found unsafe. I also asked about why some of the cans of chuncky chicken casserole give such a LOUD pop when opened. The food is packed in the cans raw, often overfilled and this is only a vacuum issue - nothing wrong with the product.

Anyone seen these test results posted anywhere?



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 05, 2008, 08:08:23 AM
We have a new old news release from the company this morning:

http://compliancehome.com/news/FDA/12718.html

Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Company Responds to FDA News Release

"(May 05, 2008)-- As a result of a routine inspection of the Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Company manufacturing facilities by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, the FDA recently raised questions regarding recordkeeping and other issues at the pet food producer’s facilities.

"Contrary to a news release issued by the FDA Thursday, April 24, 2008, Evanger’s continues to make and distribute its products with FDA approval. Evanger’s is working closely with the FDA and already has addressed many of the FDA’s questions. Evanger’s expects to have the few remaining FDA queries fully satisfied shortly.

"No Evanger’s product has been recalled, nor is there any indication that any Evanger’s product is under-processed, unsafe, or contaminated in any way.

“"As our customers, retailers and distributors know, Evanger’s takes the quality and safety of its pet foods very seriously,” said Holly Sher, president of Evanger’s. “Evanger’s has a long history of using only human-grade ingredients in our products. The FDA has not called into question the wholesomeness of any ingredient we use. We are confident Evanger’s products continue to be safe, wholesome and natural, so confident that we continue to feed them daily to our own pets.”

"All ingredients in Evanger’s products are sourced in the United States and all manufacturing is done in its suburban Chicago facility. The routine FDA inspection was related only to Evanger’s canned foods and is not affiliated with of production its dry pet food products.

"As the United States’ oldest natural pet food company, Evanger’s products are known for their human-grade ingredients, including hand-packed meats, fish and poultry, and 100% meat and organic meals.

"Consumers and distributors may contact Evanger’s customer service department at US +1 8002886796 Call for further information. In addition, all new or updated information will be immediately posted to our Website, www.evangersdogfood.com"

It's identical to the one issued on April 25:

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS233312+25-Apr-2008+PRN20080425

Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co. Responds to FDA News Release
Reuters

"WHEELING, Ill., April 25 /PRNewswire/ -- As a result of a routine
inspection of the Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Company manufacturing facilities by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, the FDA recently raised questions regarding record keeping and other issues at the pet food producer's facilities.

"Contrary to a news release issued by the FDA Thursday, April 24, 2008, Evanger's continues to make and distribute its products with FDA approval.  Evanger's is working closely with the FDA and already has addressed many of the FDA's questions. Evanger's expects to have the few remaining FDA queries fully satisfied shortly.

"No Evanger's product has been recalled, nor is there any indication that any Evanger's product is under-processed, unsafe, or contaminated in any way. "As our customers, retailers and distributors know, Evanger's takes the quality and safety of its pet foods very seriously," said Holly Sher, president of Evanger's. "Evanger's has a long history of using only human- grade ingredients in our products. The FDA has not called into question the wholesomeness of any ingredient we use. We are confident Evanger's products
continue to be safe, wholesome and natural, so confident that we continue to feed them daily to our own pets."

"All ingredients in Evanger's products are sourced in the United States and all manufacturing is done in its suburban Chicago facility. The routine FDA inspection was related only to Evanger's canned foods and did not cover production its dry pet food products.

"As the United States' oldest natural pet food company, Evanger's products are known for their human-grade ingredients, including hand-packed meats, fish and poultry, and 100% meat and organic meals.

"Consumers and distributors may contact Evanger's customer service
department at (800) 288-6796 for further information. In addition, all new or updated information will be immediately posted to the company's Website,www.evangersdogfood.com

"ABOUT EVANGER'S DOG & CAT FOOD CO., INC.
"Established in 1935, EVANGER'S Dog & Cat Food Company, Inc. is the oldest natural dog food company in the United States. Today, the suburban Chicago company is as innovative as when Fred Evanger first founded it, producing a wide array of human-grade dog and cat food dinners and supplements.
"SOURCE  Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Company

Rebecca Theim of Matrix Partners, cell, +1-312-590-0195, rtheim@matrix1.com,
for Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Company


OK--so who is this person?

http://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccatheim

"President at Tipitina Communications, Inc. (Sole Proprietorship)
Vice President at Matrix Partners

"Communications professional with experience in public relations, issues management and crisis communications. Understands and plays well with the media, drawing on previous experience and relationships developed as a reporter for several major news organizations.

"Experienced at deploying communications to enhance, improve or repair a company’s reputation. Ability to predict how issues and decisions will play in the court of public opinion. Exceptional writing and editing skills.

"Rebecca Theim’s Specialties:
"Media relations, executive communications, crisis communications, employee communications, marketing communications, digital communications, labor union negotiations communications, publication management "



http://www.tipitina-comm.biz/experience.html

"Tipitina Communications' Rebecca Theim has worked with a wide variety of B2C and B2B brands, spanning the entertainment and media, manufacturing, health care, Internet, consumer packaged goods and human resources/staffing industries. Below you will find highlights of her work with three powerful brands.

"Introducing fledgling pet care products and services to the broader consumer market

"The pet industry is booming. Pet owners will spend more than $40 billion this year on their four-legged, finned, furry and feathered friends – more than the GNP of all but 64 countries – a figure that’s doubled in the past decade. More and more newspapers, magazines and national Websites – including New York Newsday, the Chicago Tribune, the New York Post, MSNBC.com and Prevention – have reporters and columnists dedicated to all things pets."


http://www.tipitina-comm.biz/about.html

"Tipitina Communications, Inc., is a communications and public relations firm headquartered in downtown Chicago.

"As both an in-house communications professional and a consultant, President Rebecca Theim has shaped the communications strategies of companies in an array of industries, including entertainment, publishing, manufacturing, staffing and recruitment, healthcare and Internet/Web-based companies.

"In addition, Tipitina Communications can draw upon the expertise of Matrix Partners, Ltd., a full-service integrated marketing communications firm in the Chicago Loop with which she is contractually affiliated."


There's still no addressing of the problem re: retort supervision and proper operation:

Kathy,  I think the implication Evangers made that it was only a problem with paperwork was maybe wishful thinking on their part because FDA indicates it was a little more than just that.  This was what FDA said when I asked them:

"The firm had serious deviations form the mandatory provisions of 21 CFR parts 108 and 113, including lack of documentation of process adequacy and lack of processing filing with FDA for most of their processes.  The firm was operating the retorts improperly (not venting), failing to record critical process information including initial temperatures, temperature recording devices were recording temperatures higher than the mercury-in glass thermometers. The firm's retort supervisors had not attended the required training schools.
 
As correctly stated in the press release, the firm is operating under an Order of Need for Emergency Permit, which means it cannot introduce or deliver for introduction in interstate commerce any of its low--acid canned pet food. The regulation does allow the firm to have a processing authority evaluate the  processing of each lot for adequacy and to submit release requests in writing to FDA for specific lots."
I dont know why Evangers said they arent operating under emergency permit but FDA says they are.  Maybe the info hadnt been given to everyone at their company?  Maybe they arent operating under emergency permit but are supposed to be?  I dont know.  I also dont know why they would say that FDA's news release had false and misleading info in it, what was false?  FDA seemed to be pretty clear about the info they provided. 

One thing I am happy about though is that it appears that FDA did the very thing we have all wanted them to do in the past and that is they prevented something from potentially turning very bad for our pets.  When I asked FDA about everything, they responded promptly.  I sent them a thank you which is something I didnt think I would be doing with FDA anytime soon.  Now I just wish there was enough personnel to be able to inspect all the other pet food companies but I doubt that will be happening. 

For those of you who want to see the criteria for inspecting plants which process low-acid canned foods:

http://www.fda.gov/ora/inspect_ref/igs/lacfpt1/lacfpt101.html

Cross-posted to the other thread.

Cross-posting this to the other thread also.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 10, 2008, 05:46:03 AM
Quote
I poked around places & Evangers, and missed/couldn't find their statement on melamine/cyanuric acid. I sent an email to the rep asking:

1) Does Evanger's test for Melamine? (What Lab?)
2) Does Evanger's test for Cyanuric Acid? (What Lab?)
3) What is the total amount of copper compounds in the dog/cat food?
4) How much copper is in the food, excluding copper from oxides?
5) How much copper from oxides is in the food?
6) Do you regularly test for copper, lead, metal content in the foods? (What are the results)


Well, I got a "response".. IMO, one could not, in all honesty, call it "answers":

Quote
We do not test for melamine because we do not utilize any ingredients
that analysis would be based on protein.  We have enough protein where
we do not use enhancers.  We do random tests to make sure all our
vitamins and minerals are within limits.

Holly Sher
President
Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc.
Telephone:  (847) 537-0102    Fax:  (847) 537-0179


I am not detered, and have submitted another set of questions. 

IMO, it's simply due diligence to ask these questions.

In my own viewpoint, the response of the pet food company to consumer questions has the ability to destroy & diminish any words that they have employed in ads, press releases (or submitted by their public relations "experts" in these forums and in the many other forums where they are posting) which are designed to impress or assure us.

Answers to questions like these are "where the rubber meets the road" on the reality & trust issues.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 10, 2008, 06:15:57 AM
Thank you, Offly, for contributing to the picture on which the consumer can
draw conclusions.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on May 10, 2008, 07:11:50 AM
Thanks Offly....It is a shame that you got such a "non-answer" to some very good and specific questions- >:(--very disappointing to see how Holly Sher answered but sadly I am not surprised.  When the pet food companies start realizing that we are concerned about our pets' safety and nutrition and they take us seriously, then I may start to believe their "claims"... >:( 

I am glad you made this public so we can all see the answer you got! ;)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 10, 2008, 01:35:19 PM
Offy,

Thanks for that info.  Would be interesting to know how often they do their random tests, what do they test for, and what the results have been.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 11, 2008, 07:18:30 AM
Martin, those test results on websites by batch and date code is sure what a lot
of consumers would like to see.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JanC on May 11, 2008, 07:33:01 AM
3cat & Martin:

I have returned my cans of Evangers & I'm just not sure right now if I'll ever trust them enough to go back to feeding it to my dog.  I was a very loyal customer & had all the faith in the world in their product......so I'm really angry & upset.

If I could look up test results (like you can w/NB), it would make a big difference to me.  I don't understand why the pf companies, knowing full well how we (as pet parents) no longer trust them, wouldn't be happy to display any & all test results.  Why can't they see that this would make us feel a lot better about feeding this to our fur babies.  I'm not a CEO & certainly don't think like one (TG) but I think this is no more than common sense.

If I could look up test results, I'd feel a lot more comfortable feeding that to Hannah.  It's an awful feeling when you open a new bag or can & have to worry about whether or not this is going to sicken or kill your baby. >:(


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 11, 2008, 07:23:00 PM
I guess what bothers me so much is why companies don't understand after March 16, 2007,
that consumers are worried about every can, bag, or pouch of commercial pet food. They expect
us to buy every batch, tested or not, won't post information on what they are doing. Ask
any consumer who opened and fed tainted food and killed one of their family members if they don't
sweat and worry every time they buy any commercial food since the 2007 recalls. It's the lack
of commercial company support testing documentation that's driving home-cooking, and the
fear of the next possible contaminant. Every time you see a report of a bad consumer experience,
the consumer wonders if they're next. The lack of communication on quality assurance/quality control
and safety testing by the commercial companies is doing nothing to improve the situation in my opinion.
Whether your food was recalled or not, thank Menu Foods for putting consumer trust in your word
in the proverbial litter box permanently.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: awknddragn on May 12, 2008, 10:14:52 AM
Can anyone please give me a current update on this situation?  What were the foods exactly in question?  Did it include "Organic Braised Chicken Dinner for Cats"?  was it just for dogs?  I didn't even check on the foods before I gave it to her, Sam (my cat) had eaten this in the past -- please, let me know something. 

Thanks --
Pam


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 12, 2008, 10:35:55 AM
Awknddragn,

That's a good question.  Could be wrong, but I'm not sure we know enough about which flavors may be affected.  Sounds like the canning process has been called into question, so there's a potential for all canned products to be involved.

If someone else has more specific information with which to rule some flavors "in" and some "out" that would be helpful.  There may be a time period or date codes that I'm not aware of.

If in doubt, toss it out.

I had several flavors in the pantry, and they were all tossed out.

Personally, I don't believe that any PF company has sufficient process control to be able to analyze what group of products may be affected by a given snafu.  We've learned that GMP's (Good Manufacturing Practices) and QA/QC procedures aren't the strength of the PF industry.

It's about time the Evanger's folks logged on and gave us an update.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: awknddragn on May 12, 2008, 10:42:18 AM
I'd only bought the one can.  Sam ate half a bowl... the deal is, Sam hasn't been well, we've been fighting kidney disease for years.  She ate the food, about a half hour later, got up, peed, was wobbly, listing to the right rear.  Collapsed, threw up, seizure, lost ability to breathe on her own.  You know the story did not end well. 

I am wracking my brains and beating myself up -- I am hoping it wasn't the food.  I have a call in to the emergency vet.  What little I can find on botulism, it's rare in cats, and takes either hours or days before it shows up.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 12, 2008, 10:54:29 AM
awknddragn,

Oh dear!  Are you saying that you recently lost a kitty, and you suspect this food?  Was your kitty eating any other food at the time?

5CatMom
= ^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: awknddragn on May 12, 2008, 10:58:27 AM
I have to rule it out.  We were doing great, so great, she ws improving, yacking, I am trying to figure out how things can go from going so well, to ending so horribly badly.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: awknddragn on May 12, 2008, 11:00:24 AM
sorry, should have read the rest of your email -- She ate some other food that morning, stuff we've had recently.  What she actually ate that morning was Avoderm select cuts chicken chunks, and I syringed her Hill's A/D with her meds.

Pam


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on May 12, 2008, 11:03:56 AM
awknddragn--I am so sorry to hear about Sam.... :'(

There are some contacts here that can help with food testing if you have some left---important not to throw it out or send it back to the companies....and not to blame yourself no matter what the outcome may be...



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 12, 2008, 11:06:54 AM
Pam,

I'm so sorry.  Don't beat yourself up.
Could be that her kidney disease finally caught up with her.

5CatMom
=^..^


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: awknddragn on May 12, 2008, 11:14:28 AM
Carol - Thank you -- I still have the can, but it sat out for many hours - I came home from the emer vet and just didn't clean up.  I can always go back to the store and get another can with the same lot number... I suspect that would help.  I have contacted the store - it's a small one, and I know Diana will get back to me.  I sent her the information.  I have a call in to the emergency vet, just to ask about it.  I am heartbroken, and I was so excited to see Sam chow down!

Can anyone tell me where I can find testing strips or something?

5CatMom -- I know the kidney disease may have finally caught up with her, but it's just too coincidental, just one moment she was fine, and then she wasn't -- like a stroke.  The days before we had played and sang... and then ..


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 12, 2008, 11:29:54 AM
Pam- I am so sorry. If I were you I would freeze whats left in that can & try to get another the same flavor & date codes. The problem we have all had is that there may be a problem in only part of a food run,no guarantee it would be the same with another can. I'm not aware of any testing you can do yourself other than for ph. You should ask the vet whether they think it was the kidney disease or could have been the food.If they can't tell from any test results they did,you may need a necropsy to know for sure.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 12, 2008, 11:48:36 AM
Pam,

I started a thread for Sam on the Memorials board.

http://itchmoforums.com/memorials-and-support/in-memory-of-sam-t4798.0.html

5CatMom
= ^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: awknddragn on May 12, 2008, 11:57:21 AM
Thank you, food is frozen.

While I wait to hear from the vet .. I beg you to just overlook me for a moment and let me post some things "out loud"-- I still can get emotional and so my logic is a bit faulty.

At the time of the incident, they suspected brain swelling, fluid around the brain (cerebral edema), possibly detached brain stem, possibly a brain tumor; her bp was all over the place, and her pupils inconsistently dilated -- typically a result of the kidney disease, BUT they did ask if she'd been in any garbage, antifreeze, or was she an indoor cat?  Sam was totally indoor, and had been indoors since the day before... we go for a little walk on the front porch and by the bushes in the flower bed - then we might sit on the porch for a few and then head back in.  

I don't know the signs of botulism -- I've researched as fast and as furiously as my fingers can type and I can read.  Apparently it's rare, there's a study where it was given "on purpose" as a lab experiment (grrrrr) -- but didn't manifest in the cats for a few days (I think 4).  So maybe it wasn't the Evanger's.  I'll take any thoughts I can get...


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: awknddragn on May 12, 2008, 12:04:50 PM
5CatMom -- I am honored and humbled.  I will post over there some info about my little angel girl.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 12, 2008, 12:08:36 PM
Pam, this is what I found about botulism.  Says it close to the same symptoms as in humans....

What are the signs or symptoms of botulism?

Signs and symptoms of botulism include new onset of double vision, blurred vision, drooping eyelids, slurred speech, difficulty swallowing, or muscle weakness. Symptoms generally begin 18 to 36 hours after eating a contaminated food, but they can occur as early as 6 hours or as late as 10 days. If untreated, the illness may progress from head to toe, with paralysis of the face, arms, breathing muscles, trunk, and legs. Botulism can result in death.

I fed my pet canned dog food or a type of product that was recalled, but I don't know the brand. What should I do?

If your pet develops signs of botulism, seek veterinary attention immediately. Signs of botulism in pets are similar to those in people. In addition, your pet may have difficulty holding its head up or its tongue may hang out of the mouth. There is no specific treatment for botulism in animals, but supportive medical care may be helpful.

Watch your pet for signs of botulism for 10 days after it ate the product. If your pet develops signs of botulism, seek veterinary attention immediately.

If your pet ate the product more than 10 days ago and your pet has no signs or symptoms of botulism, they are very unlikely to develop botulism.

http://www.cdc.gov/botulism/botulism_faq.htm#8


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: awknddragn on May 12, 2008, 01:19:15 PM
Sandi, thanks..  this all happened within less than an hour, I've been trying to remember the series of events... but I fed her no sooner than 1pm, and by 2:07 we were in the car to the emer vet -- it was fast


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 12, 2008, 02:42:35 PM
awknddragn:  I am so sorry about what happened to Sam  :'( :'( :'(  Fighting kidney disease for years and then to have this happen...  If only to rule out one type of food, I have fed my cats a few cans of Avoderm select cuts chicken flavor (3oz can) in the last 2 or 3 weeks (just for a treat)... they are fine... I encountered no problems... so, I do not think it could be the Avoderm (although you never know).  Avoderm is canned in Thailand and has very few ingredients, that's why I bought these cans (the less ingredients, the less stuff you have to worry about).


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 12, 2008, 03:04:24 PM
Pam,

Sorry if I missed this, but are you having a necropsy done?   

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: awknddragn on May 12, 2008, 03:19:11 PM
5CatMom --
At this moment, I am not planning on a necropsy.  Sam's body was delivered for cremation on Saturday I believe.  I took her over on Friday afternoon to her old vet where her "Aunt Dodie" works -- Dodie was a vet tech that helped us out over the past 3 years.

 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 12, 2008, 03:51:22 PM
Pam,

OK, thanks. 

I was wondering because if you decide to move forward with food testing, it might help narrow down the possibilities of what to test for.

But it's not an exact science, either, and sometimes you don't learn anything from having it done. 

http://itchmoforums.com/memorials-and-support/in-memory-of-sam-t4798.0.html
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=I

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 12, 2008, 03:58:04 PM
Awknddragon:
I am so sorry for Sam and what you are going through. I have two crf kitties.
I know how hard you fight every day. If there's any question of
the food, you must try for those unopened cans or you may never have an
answer if that's what you need to find out.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on May 14, 2008, 10:01:02 AM
OK, after reading Brenton Weavers information, it appeared to me there were conflicting statements, FDA saying something is wrong, at least wrong enough to go thru all of the press release, etc and Evangers saying everything is fine.  So I decided to contact FDA myself and ask them more about the conflicting information afterall Evangers is saying that FDA's statement had false statements in it.  Well I got a response back from FDA late this afternoon.  I am not posting the persons name who responded out of respect for them.  This is FDA's response to my inquiry about the conflicting info we are receiving:


The firm had serious deviations form the mandatory provisions of 21 CFR parts 108 and 113, including lack of documentation of process adequacy and lack of processing filing with FDA for most of their processes.  The firm was operating the retorts improperly (not venting), failing to record critical process information including initial temperatures, temperature recording devices were recording temperatures higher than the mercury-in glass thermometers. The firm's retort supervisors had not attended the required training schools.
 
As correctly stated in the press release, the firm is operating under an Order of Need for Emergency Permit, which means it cannot introduce or deliver for introduction in interstate commerce any of its low--acid canned pet food. The regulation does allow the firm to have a processing authority evaluate the  processing of each lot for adequacy and to submit release requests in writing to FDA for specific lots.


Edited to add:  I am cross-posting this at the other thread also.


 

wanted to bump this email from the FDA up---so we may get a response from Mr Weaver-- ???


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 14, 2008, 11:19:31 AM
Hi everyone, sorry I was gone for so long. I see that there are new questions raised about our foods (I apologize that I did not reply to all questions earlier). To answer questions about food testing, we hold cans from every single batch and do testing on these cans, however, we do not test for melamine. The reason that we do not test for melamine is that we use whole ingredients that are not contaminated. We use whole meat protein that is sourced from within the US, so there is no need to test for melamine. If you remember correctly, the melamine was found in contaminated rice protein, an ingredient used to raise protein levels in foods without enough real meat. The ingredients listed on our cans are what is actually in the cans. We do not deviate from our formulas, so abnormal amounts of copper have never been found in our tests and would not be present in our products. Let me also take this chance to say again that there is no botulism problem with our products. We are not operating under an emergency permit, and we have been trying to contact the FDA to have them state the actual facts.

There have been other questions raised about our manufacturing processes that have come up on this site, and others. The FDA did not bring into question the quality of our food and did not issue a recall. The FDA can, in fact, issue recalls. Recalls by the FDA are issued by either going through the court system, or by working with the Illinois Department of Agriculture, who can both issue recalls. We are distributing Evanger's worldwide, and in every state of the US. All FDA questions have been addressed, and we continue to voluntarily work with a third party to ensure that everything is within FDA regulations. I continue to feed my dog and two cats Evanger's without any hesitations.

We test for mineral content and vitamin content regularly and have never found anything that would support claims made by an individual who has been very outspoken in a campaign to damage our name on this and other blogs. The individual who has made claims of high copper levels in our foods contacted our company some months ago with questions about our copper content. We were in contact with this individual, contrary to what they say, and we provided them with our own test results. Joel talked to this person on many occasions, and sent them numerous faxes showing our test results. This person brought up results from a test that showed information that was very different from our own results. We continued to provide information to this individual until they tried to extort money from us. This person threatened to go onto the blogs and smear our name if we did not give them an undisclosed amount of money. We ceased communication with this person when the extortion started. As a company, we refuse to deal with individuals who seek monetary gain from an isolated, unrepeatable, and suspect test.

Holly and Joel, owners, and the rest of us at Evanger's only want the best for our pets. We are a small, family owned company that prides ourselves in the quality of our products. We are all owned by dogs, and some of us by cats, and only wish to increase their overall happiness and health through good nutrition.

I have not addressed all questions raised yet, but over the next few days, I will try to do so. Thank you all for your support.

Brenton Weaver
Evanger’s Pet Foods
970-471-2913
brentonjweaver@yahoo.com


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 14, 2008, 12:21:35 PM
Mr. Weaver and Evangers:
Appreciating the tough situation we're all in here, I'm glad to see a response from a concerned
pet food manufacturer. Would the company please consider posting testing results on every batch
by can code and best-by date on its website? Also, testing for vitamin and mineral contents, including how often
and by what means it is done, and, of course, results on website? That I believe would be one
thing a lot of consumers would very much like to see. It is as a direct result of the 2007 recalls
very, very hard for consumers to accept undocumented statements or ads of any kind from anyone
in the pet food industry. Consumers in my opinion want the chance to evaluate the safety testing
manufacturers are doing first hand.

This group had little trouble deciphering what the possible threat was from FDA documents on the
alleged processing LAC violations. Where are botulism, e-coli, Salmonella, mycotoxin, pesticide, heavy metals,
halogenated organic compound testing results for the consumer to see and evaluate?

Hope this suggestion is of assistance.

P.S., Mr Weaver, it wasn't just Wilbur-Ellis' rice protein concentrate, but also Chem Nutra's wheat gluten, and
corn gluten in South Africa. So if Evangers includes rice, wheat, and/or corn concentrates or glutens (and I don't
know if it does), the company may want to expand its safety testing to include testing for possible melamine
and cyanuric acid spiking practices even from "U.S. sources."


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 14, 2008, 02:40:19 PM
We are not operating under an emergency permit, and we have been trying to contact the FDA to have them state the actual facts.

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01825.html

FDA Orders Pet Food Maker to Obtain Emergency Operating Permit April 24, 2008

"A recent inspection revealed significant deviations from prescribed documentation of processes, equipment, and recordkeeping in the production of the company's thermally processed low acid canned food (LACF) products. These problems could result in under-processed pet foods, which can allow the survival and growth of Clostridium botulinum (C. botulinum), a bacterium that causes botulism in some animals as well as in humans.

"The FDA issues an "Order of Need for Emergency Permit” if the agency determines that a company fails to meet the regulatory requirements to process a product that does not present a health risk."

http://www.itchmo.com/fda-orders-shutdown-of-castleberry-food-plant-4880

""In July 2007, over 80 types of canned food products and 4 types of dog food produced by Castleberry Foods were recalled due to possible contamination with Clostridium botulinum.

"FDA issued an ‘Order of Need for Emergency Permit’ to the firm at that time. This means that the firm was not able to ship its products in interstate commerce until it received a permit from FDA. The agency issues an ‘Order of Need for Emergency Permit’ if it determines that a firm does not meet requirements of the regulations pertaining to the manufacture of thermally processed low-acid foods or acidified foods, such that the safety of the food is in question.

"No products have been identified as contaminated. FDA has asked the firm to verify the safety of all products produced since the emergency permit was issued."


http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/031108/bus_190511.shtml

Augusta (GA) Chronicle March 11, 2008

"Federal concerns about the operation of food processing equipment inside Castleberry's Food Co. prompted this week's shutdown of the Augusta chili maker.

"Most of the plant's 330 employees did not report to work Monday because the U.S. Food and Drug Administration revoked the company's temporary operating permit.

"That permit was issued in September in the aftermath of a last summer's $35 million botulism recall.


"An FDA spokeswoman said the permit was revoked because inspectors found "deviations" in how some of the processing equipment was being operated.

""The deviations could have caused the food processed to be unsafe. Because under-processing by Castleberry in the past resulted in a botulism outbreak and because Castleberry was operating under an emergency permit, FDA revoked the emergency permit," said agency spokeswoman Stephanie Kwisnek."

Given that FDA has ordered the Emergency Permit to continue operations, both at Evanger's and Castleberry's, the only other option is not to operate.  Castleberry's had theirs revoked earlier this year and had no choice in continuing operations--no permit=plant shutdown.

There have been other questions raised about our manufacturing processes that have come up on this site, and others. The FDA did not bring into question the quality of our food and did not issue a recall. The FDA can, in fact, issue recalls. Recalls by the FDA are issued by either going through the court system, or by working with the Illinois Department of Agriculture, who can both issue recalls.

http://www.fda.gov/ora/compliance_ref/rpm/chapter7/ch7-5.html#SUB7-5-3

7-5-3 - FDA Ordered Recalls

Various sections of the law authorize FDA to order a firm to recall a product. Each is discussed separately below. If the recall is FDA ordered, the agency will issue a written order to the firm to recall.

Mandatory Device Recalls
Under Section 518(e) of the Act, if the agency finds that there is a reasonable probability that a device intended for human use would cause serious adverse health consequences or death, FDA has the authority to order the manufacturer, importer, distributor, retailer, or any appropriate person to immediately cease distribution of the device, to immediately notify health professionals and device user facilities of FDA's order, and to instruct such professionals and facilities to cease use of the device.

Mandatory Recall of Biological Products
The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 amended the Public Health Service Act (PHS Act) to provide recall authority for biological products (42 U.S.C. 262). If a determination is made that a batch, lot, or other quantity of a product licensed under the PHS Act presents an imminent or substantial hazard to the public health, the Secretary has the authority to issue an order for its immediate recall.

Mandatory Recall of Human Tissue Intended for Transplantation
On November 21, 2004, FDA issued regulations requiring human cell, tissue, and cellular and tissue-based product (HCT/P) establishments to follow current good tissue practice (CGTP), which governs the methods used in, and the facilities and controls used for, the manufacture of HCT/Ps; record keeping; and the establishment of a quality program (GTP final rule 69 FR 68612). FDA promulgated the new regulations under the legal authority of section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (PHS Act) (42 U.S.C. 264). The regulations at 21 CFR 1271.440 include a provision for orders of retention, recall, and/or destruction, and a new provision for orders of cessation of manufacturing in certain circumstances.

Infant Formula
The Infant Formula Act of 1980 and its 1986 amendments mandate that an infant formula manufacturer promptly notify the Secretary if the manufacturer has knowledge that reasonably supports the conclusion that an infant formula shipment may not provide the required nutrients or may be otherwise adulterated or misbranded.

Interstate Milk Shipments
The FDA does not ordinarily classify or audit interstate milk shippers (IMS) product recalls where such actions have been, or are being, handled expeditiously and appropriately by the state(s). The FDA district office in which the recalling firm is located must be ensured that all states involved in an IMS plant's recall are participating in ensuring removal of the product from commerce and that, when appropriate, states issue warnings to protect the public health. In the event that FDA determines that the states are unable to effect the recall actions necessary, the agency will classify, publish, and audit the recall, including issuance of a public warning when indicated.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/recall2.html

The recall of a defective or possibly harmful consumer product often is highly publicized in newspapers and on news broadcasts.  This is especially true when a recall involves foods, drugs, cosmetics, medical devices, and other products regulated by FDA.  Despite this publicity, FDA's role in recall activities is often misunderstood not only by consumers, but also by the news media, and occasionally even by the regulated industry.  The following headlines, which appeared in two major daily newspapers, are good examples of that misunderstanding: "FDA Orders Peanut Butter Recall," and "FDA Orders 6,500 Cases of Red-Dyed Mints Recalled."

The headlines are wrong in indicating that the Agency can "order" these recalls.   The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, (the law) does not generally authorize FDA to "order" a manufacturer to recall a food, cosmetic or supplement.  The agency may request a product recall if the firm is not willing to remove dangerous products from the market without FDA's written request.  Only when a medical device, human tissue products, and infant formula pose a risk to human health; that the law specifically authorizes FDA to prescribe a recall and to rule on the scope and extent of the same*.

The only food product seen here which FDA has absolute recall over is baby formula--they may recall milk if a state or states are not willing or not able to do it.  This page is full of recalls--FDA didn't make any of them.

http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/petfood.html

The individual who has made claims of high copper levels in our foods contacted our company some months ago with questions about our copper content. We were in contact with this individual, contrary to what they say, and we provided them with our own test results. Joel talked to this person on many occasions, and sent them numerous faxes showing our test results. This person brought up results from a test that showed information that was very different from our own results. We continued to provide information to this individual until they tried to extort money from us. This person threatened to go onto the blogs and smear our name if we did not give them an undisclosed amount of money. We ceased communication with this person when the extortion started. As a company, we refuse to deal with individuals who seek monetary gain from an isolated, unrepeatable, and suspect test.

This is when law enforcement comes in.

This is basically the same warmed-over information served up by Rebecca Theim and Matrix in these two press releases.

http://compliancehome.com/news/FDA/12718.html

May 3

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS233312+25-Apr-2008+PRN20080425

April 25

It appears that FDA HAS stated the actual facts on April 24, 2008 and this is why all the spin-doctoring fails to change them.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 14, 2008, 02:46:17 PM
The Evanger's Rep said: "We use whole meat protein that is sourced from within the US..."

Sourcing in the US is not the same as the product itself actually originating in the US --as in grown, produced in the US. The wheat gluten Menu foods used that was contaminated was "sourced in the US"- They bought the product in the US from a vendor who bought it from outside the US.


The Evanger's Rep said: "If you remember correctly, the melamine was found in contaminated rice protein, an ingredient used to raise protein levels in foods without enough real meat. "

Wheat gluten turned out to be wheat flour contaminated/adulterated with melamine and cyanuric acid and was used from the items recalled primarily as "gravy".  The rice protein concentrate also turned out to be contaminated/adulterated wheat flour- As far as why the other companies used what they thought was "rice protein"- well, you'd have to pick that bone with them, and I doubt they'd agree with your assessment.  Melamine was allegedly "unknowingly" used by the pet food companies and was an adulterant put into the product to raise the nitrogen levels of the "wheat gluten" and "rice protein concentrate" for monetary reasons by the Chinese sources for the products.

Evanger's pet food ingredient labels show "rice flour" in some products (examples: Beef & Liver - Classic Food for Cats,  Seafood - Classic Food for Cats), - And based on your previous statement ("..rice protein, an ingredient used to raise protein levels in foods without enough real meat??") you are telling us what about the use of rice flour?   

The President of Evanger's said "We do random tests to make sure all our
vitamins and minerals are within limits. "

The Rep of Evanger's said "We test for mineral content and vitamin content regularly..."

..and so on....
..or ad nauseam seems to be more appropriate at this point in time...




Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 14, 2008, 03:00:14 PM
The reason that we do not test for melamine is that we use whole ingredients that are not contaminated. We use whole meat protein that is sourced from within the US, so there is no need to test for melamine. If you remember correctly, the melamine was found in contaminated rice protein, an ingredient used to raise protein levels in foods without enough real meat.

If we go with that premise, there would have been no need for any melamine to be present in chicken jerky treat strips:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/23/business/23imports.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=bestro%20melamine&st=cse&oref=slogin

NY Times|Associated Press August 23, 2007

U.S. Is Checking Dog Treats Wal-Mart Says Are Tainted

"Wal-Mart, based in Bentonville, Ark., said this week that it had stopped selling Chicken Jerky Strips from the Import-Pingyang Pet Product Company and Chicken Jerky from Shanghai Bestro Trading in July, after customers said the products sickened their pets.

"Wal-Mart said 17 tests showed trace levels of melamine, the same pesticide byproduct that led to a widespread pet food recall in March after an unknown number of dogs and cats died.

"An F.D.A. spokeswoman, Kimberly Rawlings, said yesterday the agency was actively investigating Wal-Mart’s products in light of the store’s removal of the items from its shelves.

"She also said in an e-mail message to The Associated Press that the agency had reviewed Wal-Mart’s lab report that mentioned 20 parts per million of melamine.

"A Wal-Mart spokeswoman, Deisha Galberth, said that with such small amounts of melamine found, its laboratory recommended more testing."

It would seem that there would be no need to add melamine to these all-protein chicken jerky strips.  Use of this argument says one would not expect to find any melamine in the strips, but there it was.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 14, 2008, 03:05:55 PM
If I remember correctly, melamine was found in wheat flour, and cyanuric acid was found in rice protein concentrate, or RPC.

The "we don't test for that because it's not supposed to be there" mentality is exactly what crooks seek to exploit when they sell you contaminated ingredients, Mr. Weaver.

A more robust risk analysis would ask:  Given that we're dealing with a global economy, what are the potential contaminates?  And then select a subset of that to test for.

You have to watch a lot of current events to know what are the potential contaminates, and not rely on news from the Pet Food Institute - those folks are brain dead. 

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 14, 2008, 03:43:14 PM
Mr. Weaver, Evangers, and pet food industry in general, I don't believe I can give you
any clearer picture of the consumer pet food market you are now facing as a result
of the recalls commencing on March 16, 2007, than what has been posted on this
committed consumer thread. The perfect trust the industry largely had before 2007
is gone I believe.

Those companies that are successful from here forward are going to have to have well documented
and publicized quality assurance/quality control programs and safety testing results reflecting the lack of possible
contaminants visible for consumers to inspect for every can, bag, and pouch of commercial pet food that is
produced 24/7 that you expect consumers to buy.

One report of a bad consumer experience with any commercial pet food sets off consumer panic in 2008.
The industry is going to have to earn trust back in my opinion by producing quality product with better ingredients,
clearly labeled, including country of origin, quality controlled, and safety tested in my opinion if it wants to stay
in business.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 14, 2008, 03:51:40 PM
3Cat is right.

Some of my friends who still use commercial food say they are "one bag, or one can, away from disaster".

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 14, 2008, 03:57:45 PM
Thanks, 5Cat. That's, of course, the other option industry's lack of response has been
driving a lot of us towards in the last year, home-cooked.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 14, 2008, 04:04:27 PM
Sorry to be so late reading this, it was an mil day & I have been away from my computer. I sincerely hope I am not the "copper results" person they are accusing of extortion ! And to the best of my knowledge Don is not either.  The only money I have ever asked for from this company is the refund Joel Sher offered me last May. I did receive this check for the exact amount of the food & shipping after calling them again on Mr Weavers advice. I do not know anything about the other poster Elena & her results other than what was posted here. My test results were from Bodycote, ordered by PFPSA & are easily accessible on the PFPSA site.
  I have not posted anything so far except the fact that 1 of my dogs was extremely ill,& 4 others with lesser symptoms all after eating food from the same bag of Evangers Dry Canine All Life Stages Pheasant & Brown Rice, and the results of the testing. While I have no proof that that food caused the illnesses, it started within days of feeding that food & started to go away within days of stopping it. The phone call that I made to them recently was extremely unpleasant & rude. The exact opposite of the email they sent me 7 minutes later. That is the second time they have contacted me in any way.After being ignored for 3 months last year I had given up on them. And no amount of lost information ,email problems or spam filters explain it away. I spoke to 4 separate people last year, twice to Joel Sher the vp. I sent emails & the original order was made on their own website,so I find it very hard to believe they all lost my contact information.By the way I don't have a fax machine.
  I have tried to be fair and honest in my dealings with this company,I wish I had tape recorded the phone call 2 weeks ago. If any of you heard it you would never purchase any food made by them again. I will not sit here and be quiet while they slander me. On the phone Cynthia Stoner,the office manager told me they had not tested this food and had no intention of testing it because they didn't get many complaints. I told her that I am sending it for 1 more test & offered them what was left for their own testing. Her answer was no thank you, but if anything other than too much copper shows up they would like to know. The only other mention of anything financial was my saying that the testing on the dogs and vet costs had been very high & that was why it was done through PFPSA. At that point she said it was a shame I didn't wait to hear from them because they have a rep and vet in NY. So I guess it is my fault that I am out all that money. Next time I will just wait 11 months and drive 3 hours. That will save some money for sure,the dogs would be dead.
  She also told me they make it themselves, which was not true at the time I purchased the dry food or today to my knowledge. I will sign up for flicker tonight & post copies of the test results, original order and refund check. If necessary I can get copies of my phone records to prove when I called them. So believe whoever you like,myself I am done with commercial pet food company's. Don's description best suits them, bottom feeders and night crawlers who wouldn't know the truth or quality control if they tripped over it.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 14, 2008, 04:10:50 PM
What I am trying to do hear is to bring up that all questions that the FDA had about our processes have been answered. We are not, in fact, operating under an emergency permit, which the FDA has falsely stated. We do test every single batch, but not every batch is run through every test. In fact, we have never had a problem in any of our tests. If we were to test every batch for everything, our cans would be so expensive that nobody could afford them (imagine $8-12 per can). We think that we have come up with a good balance where we are at without driving our costs too high. When we say sourced from within the US, we mean just that: The ingredients we use are farmed/ranched here. The only ingredients that aren't from the US are our Lamb and Venison, which come from New Zealand. We are not trying to lie to anyone here. If we were going to lie, we would risk our whole company in the balance. The FDA can look at anything stated by me here and nothing that I have said is untrue. I apologize that I was off on my melamine source, but if anyone has questions about anything, they can call our office and talk to Joel Sher, the person who buys all of our ingredients and oversees everything at the plant. For anyone questioning why we use a PR firm, anyone with a business that does business in multiple states/countries has probably contacted a PR firm at one time or another. I don't understand how us using a PR firm would be offensive to anyone; our PR firm offered to help us out. We cannot possibly answer every question and send out media notices, etc. by ourselves without some help. I understand that most people on this site have been through a lot, but I am actually quite offended that people make accusations without investigating both sides here. I don't have to come here and be called a crook, and I will not continue to answer questions if people are not civil. I am here to answer concerns/questions to the best of my ability, not to be harassed. I cannot answer every allegation here, but a good deal of what is posted under this blog is nowhere close to the original FDA notice. As far as comparing us with other companies, we are not those companies, and we have already answered every FDA question and concern about this issue.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 14, 2008, 04:18:07 PM
And again not a single straight answer. Also not a single mention of my post or whether they were alluding to me.At least have the guts to name names and tell the truth. I personally am all done being quiet. I will be very vocal in my opinion of this food and all the others from now on.Being quiet and polite gets you nowhere with companies like this.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 14, 2008, 04:24:20 PM
Lesliek,

I am not pointing fingers here and not naming names, but if you have a problem with us, we are sorry. As far as our own testing goes, we have never found anything out of the ordinary. As was stated in my previous post, there are so many questions (some of them downright allegations) that don't have anything to do with what the FDA notice entailed. My purpose in coming here was to answer questions, not to point fingers and be treated the way that I have been on this site. Again, Evanger's does not have to come on here and post anything, but I did so out of the respect of the people on this site.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 14, 2008, 04:26:46 PM
Mr. Weaver,

You're right.  We have been through a lot.  But we do appreciate you coming here to answer our concerns.

You write, "The ingredients we use are farmed/ranched here. The only ingredients that aren't from the US are our Lamb and Venison, which come from New Zealand."

So I have a question about the vitamins/premixes you use.  Are you saying those are from USA sources and USA made ingredients?  

The reason I ask is that it seems impossible for me to find vitamins that are made in the USA from USA originated ingredients.  Have you accomplished the impossible?

Also, I don't see that anyone here has called you a crook.  If you're referring to my post, please re-read it.  I'm refering to those who want to sell to you.  

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 14, 2008, 04:36:37 PM
Mr Weaver- I do not like allegations that I am an extortionist ! If you were not talking about me say so outright & clearly.  I am extremely sorry that I ever did business with you,it cost me thousands of dollars and the health of my chihuahua. Now its costing me my name and reputation.  As I said on the phone and in previous posts,1 good thing came from this. My animals now eat quality food which I prepare myself. I repeat I have never posted anything untrue about your company and feel I have been more than fair. The first thing I posted when we got the test results[and the first thing posted about them on pfpsa] is that it tested clean on the unknown toxins test.I also stated that during my own research I found that pheasant is naturally very high in copper and it could be that your company simply overlooked that fact.How that is untrue or slanderous bewilders me. I am always happy to see pf companies respond here,however if you feel that being asked for clear and explicit answers is unfair feel free to stop replying.That will send a very clear message to your consumers.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 14, 2008, 04:50:42 PM
Lesliek, I never pointed my finger at you. The person who did try to extort us was demanding that we pay them thousands of dollars, so unless you demanded that of us, that person would not be you. I am not here to be defensive about anything. The FDA report that was issued did have some inaccuracies on it, but a lot of what was there was accurate. I am here to try and answer questions about us, and to expose us. We are not dishonest manufacturers, and we try to the best of our ability to make the best possible food. I think it is great that you make your own food for your dogs. In fact, making your own food is probably the best thing that you can do. The reality is that most of us cannot cook for our dogs every meal, so we must rely on commercial companies, like Evanger's, to feed our fur-children. We must form a balance of using the highest quality ingredients that we can find, along with testing for reasonable problems (which I again point out that we have never found a problem) and try to make it affordable. We obviously cannot compromise our ingredients, so we do all testing that we think appropriate to make a safe product. If we tested for everything, we would make a product so expensive that it would not be affordable to anyone. So you come back to the predicament of whether or not you have the time to cook for your pet. We believe that we are making one of the highest quality pet foods on the market, and whether or not anyone here cares, I'm still feeding it.

I'll be back later to answer additional questions that have been raised.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 14, 2008, 05:01:07 PM
Mr. Weaver,

Thanks for hanging in there.  I'm sure we can all get on the same page.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 14, 2008, 05:02:17 PM
Since I have been told conflicting answers to whether or not you tested this batch of food,the only thing that will satisfy me and anyone else worried about it is for you to post these test results either here or on your website. Or both.I'm sorry if you feel put at a disadvantage,but ignoring a complaint for 11 months tends to make people not think well about your company. We are not stupid here or willing to accept blind reassurances. We have all spent the last year researching every ingredient and want full answers with printed backup and proof.It is unfortunately not a case of can you make time to homecook. It is can you take the chance on poisoning your furkids if you don't.The burden lies with you and other pf companies. We want proof in print that your food is safe.Take the time to read through some of the other threads here about problems with pf,or the memorials to pets who were killed by pf.Then maybe you will know that we want safety not low cost.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 14, 2008, 05:17:53 PM
Mr. Weaver, there is one fundamental for all the pet food companies to remember that seems
to have gotten lost: You're not producing pet food for the existing AAFCO/FDA standards in the OP.
It is being produced for consumption by family member pets of the consumers who support your company
by buying Evangers' product and are concerned in general now about the safety of all commercial pet food.
It's my belief that consumers' standards are much higher now than AAFCO's OP in terms of safety.

5CatMom asks a good question, as I have home-cooked, too, for my surviving pets and am unable to
find vitamins, minerals that are U.S. made. Perhaps the company could be surprised on further questioning
of its suppliers and does need to question them further. I don't know that, but it may be well advised.

This is certainly a time for re-examnation of company and industry-in-general practices of long standing that
led to commercial pet food recalls in 2004, 2005, and 2007. As a consumer who also spent many thousands of dollars
caring for renal failure pets, I would certainly be willing to pay higher prices for foods that were not going to cause a repeat.

So it may be time for companies to reconsider safety testing practices and programs, cost and competition considerations,
and arrive at new and better practices. I think that's the page 5Cat was alluding to.

Lesliek, I certainly understand your frustration in trying to deal with your situation. I have to wonder why a third
test wasn't done. I've had my share of unhappy experiences trying to deal with consumer concerns. I believe
many of us have.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 14, 2008, 05:33:52 PM
Can Mr Weaver answer a question for me?  The FDA said that the retorts werent being operated properly (not venting) and the firm's retort supervisors had not attended the required training schools.  Is this info accurate and if not, in what way? 

I just want to put my vote in for testing results posted too and in this day and age of melamine being everywhere, I would still think it would be one of the things to test for just to be safe.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 14, 2008, 07:09:50 PM
JJ jon- At least yours was a private response. After 11 mo's I got a check for $54.10 & the online implication that I am an extortionist. Gotta love this company ![Guess I am the least successful extortionist ever known, I ended up way in the red !]


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 14, 2008, 07:11:21 PM
Forgot to add I will be contacting the FDA again tomorrow,so you might want to send me one of your warm & friendly letters too .


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 14, 2008, 07:15:44 PM
The online information says more than words ever can:

http://itchmoforums.com/profiles/joelsher-u1841.html

Name:  joelsher
Posts:  0 (0 per day)
Position:  Newbie
Date Registered:  April 27, 2008, 01:15:06 PM
Last Active:  Today at 07:52:13 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://itchmoforums.com/profiles/jj-jon-u1880.html

Name:  JJ jon
Posts:  1 (N/A per day)
Position:  Newbie
Date Registered:  Today at 07:49:57 PM
Last Active:  Never

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 14, 2008, 07:19:22 PM
A previous post reminded me to look up a couple of definitions.  Thought it might be helpful to review.  

slander
 
A type of defamation. Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because slander is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. If the statement is made via broadcast media -- for example, over the radio or on TV -- it is considered libel, rather than slander, because the statement has the potential to reach a very wide audience.

libel

An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because libel is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. Libel is a form of defamation, as is slander (an untruthful statement that is spoken, but not published in writing or broadcast through the media.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this is helpful to all concerned.

Mr. Sher, thanks for logging on this evening and viewing both this thread and Itchmo's warning.  Would appreciate your comments.  We have been down this road with other pet food companies.  One even had their attorney log on and make what some of us believed were threats.  That is why we are careful to make truthful statements based on personal experience.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 14, 2008, 07:23:55 PM




I certainly have no problem with you contacting the FDA.  However, I must warn you that if you proceed with any effort to slander our company, we will have no alternative but to file legal action against you personally.  Monetary amounts for damages could easily be in the millions, which we would seek to recover.
 
I would suggest that if you have any personal issues with using any of our products, then do not use them.  It would not be in either of our best interests for you to slander our company.
 
We appreciate your interest.
 
Respectfully,
Joel Sher, Vice President
Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Company, Incorporated
[/i]

Thank you Joel for you advise.  I wont. ;)



 :o :o :o

I am NEVER ever going to even LOOK at an Evangers' can or bag for feeeeaaaarrrr!!!!   :D :D :D


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 14, 2008, 08:17:29 PM
Mentions of lawsuits based on conflicting lab results seems rather unproductive in
a discussion of general overall considerations a company may want to take as a result of
consumer concerns about pet food safety in general since March 16, 2007. I'd say you've
been asked some honest questions. I'm hoping to see some responses addressing them.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 14, 2008, 08:27:49 PM
Why did JJ Jon remove their post?!   ???  I was just going to ask what the problem with the food was that they were having...... :-\


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Nabiya on May 14, 2008, 08:30:15 PM
Maybe he got the call from the attorney, it's about that time at night.....


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 14, 2008, 08:37:17 PM
SandiK,

Do you mean this post?

"One thing we can all be thankful for is this company does respond to complaints about their food. 

I contacted them regarding a problem I had.  After 10 days I didn’t hear back so I emailed them regarding my issue. I didn’t threaten suit or ask for money or even request a refund on the bag of food I still have.  I simply wanted them to know I had a problem with the food.  I greatly appreciate the VP taking the time to address my issues.  I'm certain he was busy but he took the time necessary to write me.  I would like to share the latter portion of the email.

I certainly have no problem with you contacting the FDA.  However, I must warn you that if you proceed with any effort to slander our company, we will have no alternative but to file legal action against you personally.  Monetary amounts for damages could easily be in the millions, which we would seek to recover.
 
I would suggest that if you have any personal issues with using any of our products, then do not use them.  It would not be in either of our best interests for you to slander our company.
 
We appreciate your interest.
 
Respectfully,
Joel Sher, Vice President
Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Company, Incorporated


Thank you Joel for you advise.  I wont."  

Trouble is, I'm not sure who posted it.  It appears to be based on facts from the persons own experience, so it passes the slander/libel test.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 14, 2008, 08:40:39 PM
Funny how that post disappeared huh ?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 14, 2008, 08:54:15 PM
Yes - why did JJ Jon just "poofed" and disappeared?  Got threatened?  Maybe something about a "private e-mail" from Evangers' being posted on a public forum?  This is so sad...  I mean,

you buy X brand petfood...
X-brand petfood makes your pet very sick
you call X-brand to complain
X-brand threatens you with a law suit

 :o :o

Did I miss anything?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 14, 2008, 09:12:02 PM
(http://i29.tinypic.com/6jhv86.jpg)

OK--I got this up by right clicking the red "X" where the photo should be and hitting properties.--There you go!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 14, 2008, 09:13:44 PM
Thanks Menusux ! I am definitely tech challenged at 1 am.I'll try the others.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 14, 2008, 09:15:56 PM
Where was that post from JJ jon that 5CatMom quoted? On page 13, right between RCexplorer's and lesliek's, wasn't it,
before it poofed off the thread?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 14, 2008, 09:17:01 PM
Get the links between the img and /img tags you get when you hit the photo icon and if you're not sure, preview the post until you see the photo.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 14, 2008, 09:17:18 PM
Yep 3 cat, thats where it was.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 14, 2008, 09:17:26 PM
(http://[IMG]http://i30.tinypic.com/219nq07.jpg)[/img]


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 14, 2008, 09:19:16 PM
(http://i30.tinypic.com/219nq07.jpg)

OK--got it through properties again!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 14, 2008, 09:21:50 PM
The post is reply #191 on page 13.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 14, 2008, 09:21:57 PM
(http://[IMG]http://i26.tinypic.com/2uo5qua.jpg)[/img]


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 14, 2008, 09:23:19 PM
(http://i26.tinypic.com/2uo5qua.jpg)

Properties to the rescue again!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 14, 2008, 09:52:51 PM
And commercial pet food companies don't understand it seems why consumers want documented proof for
statements/ads about ingredients and pet food safety ... banging head against Mr. Sellers' stone wall.
http://www.petfoodindustry.com/ViewArticle.aspx?id=18136


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 14, 2008, 10:39:29 PM
I'm sorry Mr. Sher... but Lesleik has the hard evidence.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 15, 2008, 03:03:27 AM
This could be helpful to a well-meaning company having trouble with communications.

http://www.psandman.com/col/empathy.htm

Klondike, that's a very good link to refer Evanger's to.

(I think we all remember Natura taking this stance. And, while Natura pounded their chests consumers kept testing their products. The lab test results have ended up as an exhibit in the Florida Lawsuit and Natura is a named defendant.  Currently, show & tell is underway (discovery) with the parties having to turn over documentation and provide information as it pertains to the issues and Answers are due to be filed in the near future. This can be viewed at: http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/florida/flsdce/1:2007cv21221/295436/ )

Here's some for info on consumer commentary:

Quote

http://injury.findlaw.com/defamation-libel-slander/defenses-to-libel-and-slander.html

Truth serves as an affirmative defense to an action for libel or slander.

A statement does not need to be literally true in order for this defense to be effective. Courts require that the statement is substantially true in order for the defense to apply. This means that even if the defendant states some facts that are false, if the "gist" or "sting" of the communication is substantially true, then the defendant can rely on the defense.
 
---------------------------------------
http://www.chillingeffects.org/index.cgi

Chilling Effects Clearinghouse

A joint project of the Electronic Frontier Foundation and Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, University of San Francisco, University of Maine, George Washington School of Law, and Santa Clara University School of Law clinics.

Do you know your online rights? Have you received a letter asking you to remove information from a Web site or to stop engaging in an activity? Are you concerned about liability for information that someone else posted to your online forum? If so, this site is for you.

-------------------------

http://69.63.136.213/documents/ACFE6B9.pdf

Legal Perils and Legal Rights of Internet Speakers
Outline prepared by Paul Alan Levy regarding Internet Free Speech. Contains legal citations, links to relevant web sites, and other resources.

------------------------

seeking to punish .. for participation in public forums based upon the content of her speech; such action constitutes viewpoint discrimination in violation of her rights to freedom of speech and freedom of association protected by the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution.  42 U.S.C. 1983 prohibits the violation of constitutional rights, Freedom of Speech and Expressive Association under color of state law.

-------------------------
In Bally Total Fitness Holding Corporation v Andrew S Faber, (C.D.Ca. 1998) 29 F.Supp.2d 1161, 1167, the Court stated, Here, however, Faber is using Bally's mark in the context of a consumer commentary to say that Bally engages in business practices which Faber finds distasteful or unsatisfactory. This is speech protected by the First Amendment. ... As such, Faber can use Bally's mark to identify the source of the goods or services of which he is complaining. This use is necessary to maintain broad opportunities for expression...."
----------------------

Because plaintiff's site did not incite or produce imminent lawless action, the Court held that defendant was not entitled to the injunction sought. "Plaintiff's verbal pyrotechnics have surely been offensive but ...(o)ffensive speech -- even if it 'stirs people to anger' -- is ordinarily protected."



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 15, 2008, 04:30:28 AM
Offy posts:  "Truth serves as an affirmative defense to an action for libel or slander."

 ;D

5CatMom
=^..^=



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on May 15, 2008, 05:14:31 AM
SandiK,

Do you mean this post?

"One thing we can all be thankful for is this company does respond to complaints about their food. 

I contacted them regarding a problem I had.  After 10 days I didn’t hear back so I emailed them regarding my issue. I didn’t threaten suit or ask for money or even request a refund on the bag of food I still have.  I simply wanted them to know I had a problem with the food.  I greatly appreciate the VP taking the time to address my issues.  I'm certain he was busy but he took the time necessary to write me.  I would like to share the latter portion of the email.

I certainly have no problem with you contacting the FDA.  However, I must warn you that if you proceed with any effort to slander our company, we will have no alternative but to file legal action against you personally.  Monetary amounts for damages could easily be in the millions, which we would seek to recover.
 
I would suggest that if you have any personal issues with using any of our products, then do not use them.  It would not be in either of our best interests for you to slander our company.
 
We appreciate your interest.
 
Respectfully,
Joel Sher, Vice President
Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Company, Incorporated


Thank you Joel for you advise.  I wont."  

Trouble is, I'm not sure who posted it.  It appears to be based on facts from the persons own experience, so it passes the slander/libel test.

5CatMom
=^..^=

Having just got up and read through this thread -I can not believe the response that jjjon got--if this is authentic, I have to say it is one of the worst things I have heard since March 16, 2007.  And I have heard some pretty bad things about our pet food industry!  It make me question who may be the extortionist--in my own opinion of course.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 15, 2008, 05:37:09 AM
Interesting response, wasn't it. Taking the path of intimidation (chilling effects) to silence critics and consumer commentary rarely ever is going to add new customers and can scare off any others who would like to try the product but are afraid of what would happen if something goes wrong and is often sufficient to give the company a reputation of not being consumer oriented...., yup, that's my opinion  ;D

This from NY is interesting too: http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2007/feb/feb15b_07.html

Quote
“Companies don’t have the right to pick and choose who can test their products, nor can they legally silence criticism,” Cuomo  (edited to add: NY Attorney General Andrew Cuomo) said.  “Companies that believe in their products should welcome the free exchange of information and opinions — not threaten legal action against critics. In this case, many customers did not even have an opportunity to soldier through a lengthy license agreement —  which threatened their rights — until buying the product. That is unacceptable.”



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 15, 2008, 06:23:28 AM
Thank you everyone,keep bumping this thread up. We want everyone to have a chance to read their responses before deciding to buy or feed their food.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 15, 2008, 06:55:38 AM
Last year, I ran around several cities and visited "boutique" pet stores.  Talked with the owners or store managers and gave them a list of the "safe" foods we'd like for them to carry.

Had brochures from the "safe" companies.  Handed out some with handsome Great Danes, and the great looking plant.

Evanger's was on the "safe food" list.

After a few weeks, Evanger's began to show up on the shelves (although I don't take credit for that).  Very sorry now, that I wasted my time.

At this point, at least for me, whether or not the food is safe is a non-issue. 

IT'S THE COMPANY BEHIND THE FOOD THAT MATTERS because THE COMPANY IS the food.

And that's what pet food companies don't seem to get.  No matter what, you can't treat your customers like crud and expect them to use your food.

We're not just a bunch of looney bloogers - we're all friends, here.  And we stick together.

Sorry Evanger's, but you're no longer in my feeding program.

All of the above is strictly IMHO, of course.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 15, 2008, 06:59:15 AM
Don,  you are right except for one thing, they arent just saying its all the pet owners fault, they have been blaming FDA since the start too.  Darn FDA for making that visit to show them where problems exist at their plant and to try to prevent something bad from potentially happening, shame on FDA.   ::)

As far as their extortion claim goes, I dont know what the circumstances are.  I just hope that this wasnt an actual pet parent that had a pet become ill from their food and they asked for reimbursement of their vet bills after showing a positive test of some sort.  That would be a new low for the pfc's to say reporting a problem and asking for reimbursement is extortion.  Evangers keeps saying they arent operating under permit order but the news release stated FDA ordered them to get a permit order.  Maybe they havent obtained it yet?  I dont know but if they can get that statement corrected by FDA, then great, let us all know when that happens.  I guess they are feeling some of the same frustration we are feeling before, during and after the pet food recalls, welcome to our world!    ;)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on May 15, 2008, 07:10:19 AM
I have said for over a year now there were two disasters in the "recall of 2007"-- first- the actual illnesses and deaths to our beloved pets ---and secondly-how grieving and worried pet owners were treated before, during and after the immediate recall period.  I for one want to read about how pet owners are treated when they have concerns and complaints as this is very important for me to choose what product I elect to buy. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 15, 2008, 07:36:32 AM
Ok, a lot of people are accusing us, as a company, of a lot of things that we do not do. We handle each and every question and complaint very seriously. We very seriously looked at the incident that people are refering to, but when somebody said pay up or they're going to the blogs, press, etc. we decided to cease communication. We consider that extortion. That is all I will say about this incident.

A lot of people are talking about test results, etc. What I want from the people here that are serious about finding out about us is a list of what tests you would like us to run, and post results for. We will seriously look at the responses here and try to make your thoughts turn into results. Financially we cannot run every single test available because the price of our food would be astronomical (while some people might pay $100+ for 12 cans, most people will not). Please let us know what the top 5 or 10 tests you would like to see conducted by us, and we will consider posting results on our webpage. The webpage is a great idea, but we just don't have the computer power to post everything. You have to remember that we are a small company.

I need to speak to Joel to ensure that I answer the questions brought up here correctly. I will probably be able to answer most of your questions this afternoon.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 15, 2008, 07:39:23 AM
Sorry to get off topic for a moment, but in case you missed it, here's how to get your comments posted on regulations.gov:

Cross posted from "FDA Pet Food Hearing Tuesday"

OK Everyone,

Just got off the phone with Urnestine Ezzard (a nice guy).  He works for Dockets Management Division and is the contact for the FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine.

He said to get your comments posted at regulations.gov you must:

1.  Write at the top of your comment:  PLEASE POST TO REGULATIONS.GOV

2.  In your comment, do not include personal information such as your telephone no., address, email address.  (due to privacy concerns)

3.  Try the above, and if your comment doesn't get posted call Urnestine at 301/827-6863

Here's the link again:

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocketDetail&d=FDA-2007-N-0442

Any problems with these directions, please let me know.

5CatMom



PS   Back on topic now.  Sorry about that, but I got a request.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 15, 2008, 07:41:17 AM
I think, Carol, you are right. Consumers should only support companies that are focused
on producing quality product with maximum safety for furkids. Otherwise, make it
themselves.

Mr. Weaver, thanks for looking into some issues and discussing possible new practices.
Hopefully cooler heads can respond constructively this morning.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 15, 2008, 07:47:28 AM
A lot of people are talking about test results, etc. What I want from the people here that are serious about finding out about us is a list of what tests you would like us to run, and post results for.

To make this initial effort to respond to consumer concerns, maybe tell folks what tests you already run for content %, safety, etc. Then, post those test results & what product- that would be a nice place to start. And shouldn't cost anything as it would have already been done as part of your QA/QC and due diligence.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 15, 2008, 07:52:26 AM
Mr. Weaver,

Now that's a great comment.  Thanks very much  ;D.

If you work with us, we'll meet you half way.  We're tough, but fair.

Mostly, we're very serious about pet food.  

(http://planetsmilies.net/violent-smiley-1397.gif) (http://planetsmilies.net)

Have really had enough of burying our dear pets and then being pooped on when we ask for help.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 15, 2008, 07:58:33 AM
Here's an idea:  Let's create a new thread and post comments WRT testing there.

Everyone can make their recommendations; then we can summarize and give Mr. Weaver a list.

How does that sound?

5CatMom

EDIT:  OK, bad idea.  We'll stay here.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 15, 2008, 07:59:36 AM
It may take longer than today to get the maximum benefit out of suggestions. So
information on what is being done would definitely contribute to that effort.

Sounds good, 5Cat, to me. Then bring suggestions back here or cross-post thread information.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Nabiya on May 15, 2008, 08:03:41 AM
5catmom, I would rather keep it all going in this thread of 15 pages so it's not overlooked by newbies or others not up to date on what transpired before.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: shibadiva on May 15, 2008, 08:08:11 AM
I hadn't really been following this thread because my animals wouldn't touch the couple of cans of Evangers that I bought last year while we were all searching for safe food. However, the company's understandable frustration at seeing their issue spread virally all over the web is starting to remind me of a highway accident - you don't want to look but you can't help yourself.

If the FDA had expressed concerns about the robustness and safety of processes for producing the food that I was feeding, I would be looking for a clarification before continuing to feed that food, and that would be either a retraction or correction by the FDA, or a confirmation from the FDA that the standards were now being met. I would not be feeding on the basis of assurances from the pf company or its PR firm. There is a huge disconnect between what these two entities maintain, and until it is resolved, I wouldn't be feeding this product.

The customer service attitude is quite something else. Customers - can't live with 'em; can't live without 'em...





Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 15, 2008, 08:09:35 AM
Nabiya,

Good point.  

3Cat, is that OK with you.  We can make suggestions here - will work just as well.

Uh oh, it's break time for 5Cat.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: trudy1 on May 15, 2008, 08:25:11 AM
Well, after reading all of this So Far, I will nor be bying Evangers ever. Off My list and many others'.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on May 15, 2008, 08:26:47 AM
Keep in mind that IF they have any test results, they will only post the good ones.  Dont expect them to post the bad ones.  That's my opinion.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 15, 2008, 08:31:03 AM
Of course, Martin, based on consumer brand experiences and health issues, consumers
will have to be committed to independent confirmatory testing. But since very little knowledge
of pet food company safety testing is available to consumers generally presently, it would
be a start in the direction of improving pet food safety by allowing consumers to see posted
test results on the products they purchase on manufacturing websites. So it's another piece
of information on which to base purchasing decisions. It's an open thread here or elsewhere.
Post away.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on May 15, 2008, 08:41:15 AM
It's hard for me to believe or trust any pet food company at this point. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: PFR07PS on May 15, 2008, 08:43:55 AM
Regarding posting test results (in case any of you forgot the Innova thread discussion) -- for test results to mean anything you have to know specifically what is being tested, at what levels of detection it was analyzed, who did the testing and how was the testing done. 

The critical point is, of course, testing levels if you are comparing results.  I am now of the belief that product testing is a lot like market research, you can make the data look any way you want.  You have to know if you're comparing apples to apples, especially in regard to a consumer's test versus a pet food company's test. 

Personally, after 17 months of this mess test results mean nothing to me.  If I owned a company I certainly would not tell you there was a problem. 

Public Relations has the responsibility to manage communications for a company, both internally and externally and to maintain a positive image for that company.  PR firms want to accentuate the positive and downplay the negative.  I think this is commonly referred to as “spin doctor.” 

Mr. Weaver identified his position as Rocky Mountain Territory Manager.  While everyone appreciates his involvement, I am very curious why a Territory Manager would be addressing issues of such a critical nature that are national in scope for this company and why is the Pres. or VP not involved? 
DonnaC



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Nabiya on May 15, 2008, 08:53:30 AM
I agree with Martin.  No PF company is going to post test results about any problems they had in the past or on future testing.  Weaver's offer to post future test results on products THEY supply is to calm the masses while they post perfect test results.  Independent testing outside of the PF company is the only assurance of accurate reporting of the findings.  If we can decide what product line of Evangers to test, from where, sealed, etc., I'll get with Don to make the entire contribution for testing.  I would think products manufactured before the FDA order would be the most appropriate.  Then let the chips fall as they may.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 15, 2008, 08:56:47 AM
Donna and Nabiya, you brought up points of view that I hadnt thought about but will be pondering it now.....this is all so confusing......thank you for your thoughts.

Did anyone notice that Evangers has taken their company response to FDA's notice off their website, its not there today...... 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 15, 2008, 09:20:18 AM
I am just as skeptical as the rest of you about the tests.

One important thing to me is what they currently test for, what they regularly and frequently test for, what tests are their suppliers providing for safety certification, do they do random confirmation on the vendor test results.. maybe they catch stuff, pull it and that increases safety of what they sell.

You all know I asked a specific list of questions and Holly Sher sent me a "response".

I also submitted a second set of questions and have not yet received a response. 

A manufacturer/pet food company is responsible for the safety of the foods they produce and if someone practices due diligence they're most likely to have safer foods. I didn't get the warm fuzzy feeling regarding due diligence from the response I got at all.

Without asking Evanger's to spend a huge amount of funds for tests on what they are producing now, I'd like to see what their due diligence looks like.. past and going forward.

Frankly, I think the FDA notice may have changed some questionable safety practices in their immediate past. How that may have impacted their foods, and whether they would have caught it is entirely dependant on the company's QA/QC & due diligence.

To me, without that knowledge of what they do now, the rest being a "One time deal" truly has very little merit as to the safety of the foods.

ps. and "small" is relative considering the 6million figure and 12 million figure in some of their public relations/media blurbs.  Using that "small" as a we can't afford much..well, that dog don't bark.




Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on May 15, 2008, 09:40:20 AM

Mr. Weaver identified his position as Rocky Mountain Territory Manager.  While everyone appreciates his involvement, I am very curious why a Territory Manager would be addressing issues of such a critical nature that are national in scope for this company and why is the Pres. or VP not involved? 
DonnaC


The VP may have been told not to write any more letters.  But IMO more than likely behind what Rocky Mountain writes.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 15, 2008, 10:44:26 AM
Ok, a lot of people are accusing us, as a company, of a lot of things that we do not do. We handle each and every question and complaint very seriously. We very seriously looked at the incident that people are refering to, but when somebody said pay up or they're going to the blogs, press, etc. we decided to cease communication. We consider that extortion. That is all I will say about this incident.

A lot of people are talking about test results, etc. What I want from the people here that are serious about finding out about us is a list of what tests you would like us to run, and post results for. We will seriously look at the responses here and try to make your thoughts turn into results. Financially we cannot run every single test available because the price of our food would be astronomical (while some people might pay $100+ for 12 cans, most people will not). Please let us know what the top 5 or 10 tests you would like to see conducted by us, and we will consider posting results on our webpage. The webpage is a great idea, but we just don't have the computer power to post everything. You have to remember that we are a small company.

I need to speak to Joel to ensure that I answer the questions brought up here correctly. I will probably be able to answer most of your questions this afternoon.

ah!  serious?  you will run tests and post results?  here?  ...  then... maybe this is progress at last



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 15, 2008, 10:50:05 AM
Very quickly, I am writing responses here because Joel, the VP, is busy with inspections today. Our plant is inspected regularly, but unfortunately, not very often by the FDA. We have constant inspections from the Illinois Department of Agriculture, the EU inspectors, organic inspections, kosher inspections, etc. We never had a problem with any inspection until the standard FDA inspectors came by. This inspection was the first FDA inspection since Holly and Joel purchased the company in 2001.

As some of you know, and many of you do not, we are a small company run by Holly and Joel Sher. Joel is the plant operations manager, and Holly is the office/sales manager. We honestly thought we were producing everything to FDA standards, and we appologize that we were not. Most of the questions that the FDA had were about our paperwork. We are now working with a third party to ensure that everything done at our plant is documented and manufactured correctly. Current FDA standards are very tight, so pet food on the marketplace should theoretically be safe. We have never compromised our ingredients, and everything we produce is human grade.

Joel is a very busy individual, so if anyone has any questions, they can call him and ask. If you want to ask a question here, I will be more than happy to answer it, with the assistance of Joel. Joel would answer questions personally here, but he does not have enough time right now to do it himself. I appologize that I must be the one here to answer questions, but I am happy to do so.

As soon as Joel gets a little free time this afternoon, I will find out the answers to some of your questions.

Respectfully,
Brenton Weaver
Evanger's Pet Foods


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: PFR07PS on May 15, 2008, 10:59:14 AM

How timely.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/artsandliving/comics/king_beetle_bailey.html?name=Beetle_Bailey

Be sure date is on May 15.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 15, 2008, 11:10:18 AM
Everyone:  No matter our level of "healthy-doubt," I suggest we allow this to play out.  I personally feel that the offer to test for whatever substance "we" deem necessary is a graceful and generous offer  :-\ that IMHO we should take advantage of... so... lets' open suggestions for testing.  Afterall, we all know how limited our own resources are to order tests ourselves.  Here we have a PF manufacturer offering to run tests... lets take adavantage of it.  so... I suggest we come up with ideas on the testing:

1.  Type of food: cat, dog, dry, wet
2.  Substances (toxins, levels of nutrients that have established SUL [safe upper limit])
3.  Nominate the lab that will do the testing
4.  Recommend testing level accuracy (parts per million, etc)

Whad'ya all think?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 15, 2008, 11:18:04 AM
I believe the request is what tests (between 5 and 10) you want run, not that Evangers is
going to post here. Did I misread that?

Posted over each other, Kaffe. Sorry. But I think you make a good point. It's kind of try or
exist under the present system that didn't seem to work well in 2007.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 15, 2008, 11:23:41 AM
While I am glad to see that Evangers is willing to discuss and post testing, I am less thasn thrilled that it is still being implied that I am an extortionist. I have never said anything about the press or blogs and have only posted my experience with the food and co and the test results. I have posted nothing else about them until the accusations last night.I will not however sit here quietly and be defamed by what they are implying about me.I am now speaking to an attorney,posting here and notifying the press. This is a direct result of these false accusations. The only thing financial I have ever discussed with the Evangers company is the refund of my order,and the fact that I didn't have the money to test privately after the vet bills and other tests I had paid for. I did not even ask for the refund, Joel Sher offered it to me last year. It seemed to me after I posted here about a possible problem with their food that I would not get it. That is when I stopped being able to reach them. As long as I continue to feel that I am being falsely accused I will continue to tell people about it. If you are not talking about me in this instance then state that clearly. And I must say I strongly wonder if the person you are talking about was simply trying to be reimbursed for medical and testing costs. Having been on the receiving end of your customer service, it would not surprise me at all if you considered that extortion.If you would like I can certainly return the money you refunded to me. I will consider it a lesson well learned in how to deal with a reputable company which backs its products.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 15, 2008, 11:32:33 AM
I'm game  ;D

Evanger's Canned Cat Food - Mackerel w/Gravy
1)Heavy Metals, Elements -Cadmium, lead, mercury, arsenic, nickel, antimony, selenium, copper, zinc, chromium, iron and aluminum. (and Total Copper & Copper Oxides)
2)Dioxin/PCBS

3)Flame Retardants? or Triazines? (probably pushing my luck ROFL)

Test to EU Standards or US?

Silliker Labs 900 Maple Road Homewood, IL 60430
If negative, third party lab for confirmation: Expertox.

What I have a problem with is what tests do they DO? and Are they asking us what tests they SHOULD do as a long term effort or just a one time event?

Why I have a problem is this - AFSS - Animal Feed Safety includes pet foods, and this is the FDA/CVM slideshow program that they gave for manufacturers.

And, it is where I got the 2nd set of questions that I submitted to Holly Sher (and I've not yet received a response):

Quote
1) Does your company test the raw ingredients (anything used in the product including supplements and proteins) and/or the processed (finished) products for contaminants - and what have been your results?

a) Mycotoxin - Aflatoxins, fumonisins, zearalenone, ochratoxin A, vomitoxin

b) Pesticides -OP: Malathion, chlorpyrifos-methyl, pirimiphos-methyl and OC: Methoxychlor

c) Heavy Metals, Elements -Cadmium, lead, mercury, arsenic, nickel, antimony, selenium, copper, zinc, chromium, iron

d) Halogenated Organic Compounds - Dioxins, PCB’s

e) Salmonella, botulism, e coli


2.) What is the Effect of your company's process (LACF) on a contaminant :

a) Does your process increase (I), decrease (D) or have no-effect (NE) on contaminant?

b) What is the magnitude of that effect?

c) How certain are you in your estimation?

I appreciate your responding to these questions, as you know safe pet food and the health of my cats is vital to me. I don't ever want to feel like I did when I realized that I had fed poisoned & dangerous pet food my cats. I was terribly naive and trusting then, and now, I must do due diligence.

footnote:resouces for questions came from AFSS:
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/AFSS052207Benjamin.htm
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/DocketHCSChemicalContam.htm

This was the first set:
Quote

I sent an email to the rep who sent it to Holly who gave it to Joel and then Holly responded:

1) Does Evanger's test for Melamine? (What Lab?)
2) Does Evanger's test for Cyanuric Acid? (What Lab?)
3) What is the total amount of copper compounds in the dog/cat food?
4) How much copper is in the food, excluding copper from oxides?
5) How much copper from oxides is in the food?
6) Do you regularly test for copper, lead, metal content in the foods? (What are the results)

AND THIS WAS THE "RESPONSE":
We do not test for melamine because we do not utilize any ingredients
that analysis would be based on protein. We have enough protein where
we do not use enhancers. We do random tests to make sure all our
vitamins and minerals are within limits.

Holly Sher
President
Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc.







Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 15, 2008, 11:43:52 AM
Lesliek, I have never pointed my finger at you, and I have stated that on more than one occassion. We did, in fact, have someone who made the threats that I mentioned, and did, in fact, try to blackmail us for far, far greater costs than any vet bill/testing would ever cost. As I stated earlier, unless you made those threats, then you are not the individual that mentioned.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 15, 2008, 03:03:54 PM
Ok, I was able to run a couple of things by Joel.

First question about our vitamin/mineral premix. We use a company called Trouw Nutrition for our premixes. We give them a custom formula that we have come up with, with the help of our customers, and they manufacture it for us. We are not entirely sure if all of their vitamins and minerals come from within the US. Our formula is compliant with FDA organic standards, and we use it in our organic foods that have the premix. Their products for companion animals are produced at their facility in Highland, IL. Their website is http://www.trouw-nutritionusa.com/  (http://www.trouw-nutritionusa.com/)

I know that some people here will want to know why we do not investigate every possible aspect of our foods, but sometimes you have to trust your suppliers. We trust that they provide us with exactly what they say they are providing us with. It’s the same as if you go to the grocery store. When you buy a piece of meat, you trust that the meat has passed FDA inspections. Any number of meats and vegetables can contain many different types of bacteria, and you have to trust that what you are buying is safe. We have a relationship like that with our suppliers because we trust them. We buy only from people that we know. The Evanger’s line uses almost all fresh ingredients. Our vitamin and mineral mix is not fresh, of course, and our venison, lamb, and mackerel come in frozen, but almost everything else is fresh from the Chicago markets.

To address the questions about our retort venting.

Our retorts are what we cook our food in. They are large steam chambers that we use to cook our cans in. The venting schedule refers to how long we vent the chamber between batches. The cans are placed into the chamber, then the retort is vented and filled with steam, and then the steam and chamber are heated to 247 degrees, our cooking temperature. We were using the schedule that was provided to us by the FDA, and it was also the manufacturer’s suggested schedule. We had to make a building modification and replaced one section of the exhaust pipe with an elbow joint. It passed building inspection, and there were no problems. The FDA wanted us to re-affirm our venting schedule with them since there was a modification to the original design. We have already re-affirmed the schedule with them.

Joel and his plant manager have both been to retort training. One of the two of them is always near the retorts. The FDA wants all employees working near them to have training, just in case, and we are sending any personnel that we believe might benefit from the classes to the training.

I know that there are other questions, and I will try to answer as many of them as I can as I have time

Thanks,
Brenton Weaver
Evanger’s Pet Foods


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on May 15, 2008, 03:17:32 PM
Ok, I was able to run a couple of things by Joel.

First question about our vitamin/mineral premix. We use a company called Trouw Nutrition for our premixes.


China

With a head office in Beijing and factories in Beijing and Xiangtan, the Trouw Nutrition China Group has a solid base to aid the Chinese feed industry with the latest advanced animal nutrition products.


http://www.trouwnutrition.com/displaypage.asp?page_key=94


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 15, 2008, 03:28:41 PM
If you read through the website in it's entirety, Trouw Nutrition is based in the Netherlands. They have head offices for countries in many locations. Many companies do business in China, and this one is not based there. Please do not take things out of context.

Respectfully,
Brenton Weaver
Evanger's Pet Foods


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: PFR07PS on May 15, 2008, 03:37:43 PM

Lesliek, I have never pointed my finger at you, and I have stated that on more than one occasion. We did, in fact, have someone who made the threats that I mentioned, and did, in fact, try to blackmail us for far, far greater costs than any vet bill/testing would ever cost. As I stated earlier, unless you made those threats, then you are not the individual that mentioned.


Mr. Weaver,

Having been through a similar experience as LeslieK, with another company, I understand her concerns regarding the comments you have made in this thread.  They are, at the very least, unclear. 

Quote

“so unless you demanded that of us, that person would not be you.”

 “unless you made those threats, then you are not the individual that mentioned”



You have asked forum members to be specific in their requests for suggested testing.  I would ask that you be specific in addressing this allegation.  If LeslieK is not the person you are referencing in regard to “an extortion attempt” then state that clearly so there is absolutely no doubt for any of us, especially LeslieK.  Extortion is a serious allegation. I would not want to see the uncertainty of your comments harm or disparage LeslieK’s reputation if she is not the person in question.  Furthermore, I certainly hope this allegation is not being used as a means to bully, threaten or invoke fear in other pet owners on this forum. 

(Edited to add:)  I think you and your company owe an apology to LeslieK if you cannot substantiate this allegation. 

Donna C


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on May 15, 2008, 03:37:52 PM
How about testing for Selenium


WEEK ENDING JANUARY 19

 http://www.recalls.org/vet2002.html

PRODUCT Optimin Water Soluble Selenium Powder, elemental Selenium 0.5%, in 25 kg paper bags and 1 kg foil pouches.  

CODE Product code 09611411 - 25 kg. Bag; Product code 09611402 - 1 kg. Bag All lots of both sizes

RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER Recalling Firm:  Trouw Nutrition USA, L.L.C. Highland, IL

Manufacturer:  Trouw Nutrition USA, L.L.C. Willmar, MN.

REASON Selenium is unapproved for use in animal drinking water

VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE 204 - 25 kg bags

DISTRIBUTION Minnesota, Florida, North Dakota and New Zealand

Health Buzz: Toxic Pets and Other Health News
Posted April 21, 2008

 Testing Finds Many Toxic Chemicals in Cats and Dogs

Your pet may be regularly exposed to toxic chemicals--at levels higher than those found in humans, according to a new study by the Environmental Working Group, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit research organization. Cats and dogs tested positive for 48 of 70 industrial chemicals--43 of which were found to be at higher levels than typically found in people. For example, dogs had levels 2.4 times as high of perfluorochemicals, which are used to make stain- and greaseproof coatings, and cats had 23 times as many flame retardants, compared with the average levels of these chemicals found in humans. "This study shows that our pets are susceptible to the absorption of potentially harmful chemicals from our environment, just as we are," said John Billeter, the veterinarian who conducted blood and urine tests on the pets. "Perhaps even more troubling is that these chemicals have been found in higher levels in pets than in humans, implying potential harmful consequences for their health and well-being."

The Environmental Working Group offers tips for reducing your pet's exposure to harmful chemicals.

Harmful Selenium Supplements Being Probed

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating more than 180 cases of illness in people who took a dietary supplement containing potentially harmful levels of selenium, according to the Associated Press. Testing of certain formulations of "Total Body Formula" and "Total Body Mega Formula" supplements found hazardous levels of selenium, more than 200 times the amount per serving stated on the label of the products, the CDC reports. The manufacturer, Total Body Essential Nutrition, voluntarily recalled the products in March. But the increasing number of illness reports may mean that people are still taking the supplement; the Food and Drug Administration had received only 43 reports of people falling ill by April 9. Adverse reactions to the supplement--which generally occur within 10 days of taking the product--include significant hair loss, diarrhea, joint pain, muscle cramps, deformed fingernails, and fatigue.

http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/2008/04/21/health-buzz-toxic-pets-and-other-health-news.html

 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 15, 2008, 04:10:23 PM
Mr Weaver,  there are pet food companies currently testing for lots of things and one of them is Natural Balance.  While I would like to see them go even further in what they are testing for, their company does seem open to suggestions and input from pet parents.  So your company might want to look at Natural Balances website and public relations stance for further info, they have alot of info there for everyone to see.  No, I dont work for them and I dont use their product. 

I agree with Donna's statement.  Your response to LeslieK leaves alot of room for inference to say the least.  You know her name and you would well know if this is the person you are referring to in your claims of extortion so for you to not just say upfront whether you are referring to her is, to me, intimidation and doesnt go far in solving any issues.   As for testing, I would like to see Evangers testing the same food of Leslie K's that the lab found high levels of copper in and post those results publicly.  Test ideas suggested by Offly and others sound very good too.  Other tests I would like to see are for melamine, cyanuric acid, aminopterin and acetaminophen.  So perhaps you can run this by Mr Sher to see if he would be willing to do this?  Here are the links to Natural Balance and the page that explains more of their testing protocol.   

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/

ABOUT OUR TESTING

Who is Testing Our Pet Food?

Midwest Laboratories: Midwest Laboratories in Omaha, NE is an independent laboratory highly skilled at testing for contaminants. Starting as a testing facility for agricultural analysis of soil, plant tissue and feeds, Midwest has expanded into pesticide analysis, water analysis and microbiological analysis for food, pet food, fertilizer, nematodes, biosolids, petroleum, and hazardous waste.Their chemists, biologists and environmental scientists are able to address new analytical challenges with the latest instruments and methods of testing.

NB Laboratories: Natural Balance has hired Research Biochemist, Dr. Ali Haghighi (left) to create the protocols at NB Laboratories for Melamine and Cyanuric Acid Testing, as well as oversee all lab testing procedures.

Dr. Haghighi received his Ph.D. in Biochemistry at Cleveland State
University. He is also a professor of sciences in Surgical Technology, and teaches Medical Assistant Certification for the State of California. He also has certification as a criminalist from the California Justice Department. Dr. Haghighi has developed an ELISA-based diagnostic assay for Polygenetics, Co., using Cavilink polymers.

NB Laboratories has also hired Quality Control Chemist, Roummel (Rome) Ruvolo (right). Mr. Ruvolo has earned his Bachelor of Science in Pharmacy and has been working in the biotechnology field for over two years. His chief research is based on Bio-inspired Oxygen and Light-driven Homogenous Catalysts. It is his responsibility to implement the testing procedures developed by Dr. Haghighi.

Our standard testing protocol includes testing for Aflatoxin and DON (Vomitoxin). As of December, 2007, we have added screening for Ochratoxin, Zearalenone (ZEA), and Fumonisin. Stringent research, development and quality control practices have led to proven reliability and consistency of our tests. The accuracy and reproducibility of these testing protocols have inspired wide acceptance and use throughout the food industry. These tests have also earned official approvals and third party validations, including:

• AOAC International
• AOAC Research Institute
• IUPAC
• USDA/GIPSA (FGIS)
• USDA/FSIS

We have also added testing for Melamine and Cyanuric acid to our protocol. For months these tests were being done through an independent laboratory, and since October we have started testing for Melamine and Cyanuric Acid in our own Laboratory, using a Mass Spectrometer, which is used at many major Universities.
 
What kinds of Test Methods are being used? (Click HERE to learn about the Toxins we test for.)

Testing for Aflatoxin/DON (Vomitoxin):
 
 
ELISA Test
NB Laboratories and Midwest Labs, our independent laboratory, use ELISA tests for Aflatoxin, DON (Vomitoxin),Ochratoxin, Zearalone (ZEA), and Fumonisin. ELISA tests are quantitative tests that compare up to 19 samples at a time against test controls. Through the use of a microwell reader, the tests provide accurate sample results in parts per million (for Aflotoxin) or parts per billion (for Vomitoxin). Performing an ELISA involves at least one antibody with specificity for a particular antigen. The sample with an unknown amount of antigen is immobilized on a solid support (usually a polystyrene microtiter plate) either non-specifically (via adsorption to the surface) or specifically (via capture by another antibody specific to the same antigen, in a "sandwich" ELISA). After the antigen is immobilized the detection antibody is added, forming a complex with the antigen. The detection antibody can be covalently linked to an enzyme, or can itself be detected by a secondary antibody which is linked to an enzyme through bioconjugation. Between each step the plate is typically washed with a mild detergent solution to remove any proteins or antibodies that are not specifically bound. After the final wash step the plate is developed by adding an enzymatic substrate to produce a visible signal, which indicates the quantity of antigen in the sample. The Enzyme ImmunoAssay (EIA) is a synonym for the ELISA.

Testing for Melamine/Cyanuric Acid: Traditional crude protein and non-protein nitrogen tests are not melamine specific. The possibility of new kinds of protein tests which will be able to separate natural protein from added nitrogen is still being explored, but they have yet to be implemented in standard protein testing. Midwest Labs, our independent laboratory, uses two different methods to detect Melamine and Cyanuric Acid. One is Liquid Chromatography Mass Spectrometry (LC/MS) and the second is Gas Chromatograph fitted with a Nitrogen-Phosphorus Detector (GC/NPD). NB Laboratories uses Spectrophotometric testing. Details on each method are below.

Liquid Chromatography (LC):
Chromatography studies the separation of molecules based on differences in their structure and/or composition. The most common technique is Liquid Chromatography, which is used to separate the target molecule from undesired contaminants, as well as to analyze the final product for the requisite purity established with governmental regulatory groups (such as the FDA).

Mass Spectrometry (MS):
Mass spectrometry is a powerful analytical technique that is used to extract the structure and chemical properties of molecules to identify known and unknown compunds. Compounds can be identified at very low concentrations in chemically complex mixtures. LC/MS is a powerful combination for tests requiring the most thorough chemical analysis.

Gas Chromatograph fitted with a Nitrogen-Phosphorus Detector (GC/NPD):
This instrument and method is very accurate, with the ability to detect melamine at very low levels (10 part per million). The instrument is set up with dual NP detectors and the GC is fitted with two different GC columns. Both columns must detect melamine and deviate less than 5% from each other for a sample to be confirmed as containing melamine.

Spectrophotometric Testing:
Spectrophotometry involves the use of a spectrophotometer, which can measure intensity as a function of the color, or more specifically, the wavelength of light in a compound. This method of chemical analysis based on the absorption by matter of electromagnetic radiation of a specified wavelength or frequency.The radiation interacts with specific features of the molecular species being determined, such as the vibrational or rotational motions of the chemical bonds. Using UV-microscopy, absorbance spectra of melamine can be detected.
 
 
NOTE: We do not conduct laboratory testing on animals, whatsoever. All of our testing at NB Laboratories is on food analysis only.
 







 




Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 15, 2008, 04:20:11 PM
Mr. Weaver, just asking a question. Both 5CatMom and I have had trouble finding vitamins, minerals
made in the U.S. with U.S. ingredients for home-cooking. So if the products are supplied from outside
U.S. sources, including China, which is where much of it comes from these global economy days, has any type
of inspection occurred of the production facilities at all? Are there any certifications Evangers has asked
for from the originating-outside-the-U.S. supplier, whether that be the Netherlands or China? Even though the company
is buying from an Illinois supplier, what questions has Evangers asked that supplier about its sources regarding inspections
and certifications by any government standards agency?

This is where Menu Foods and ChemNutra ran into trouble on wheat gluten spiked with melamine in 2007. No one was asking questions of its suppliers or testing what it was getting. Does Evangers test what it actually gets in any way?

These are all points in using suppliers from foreign sources with standards differing drastically from the United States when the problems which led to 2007's recalls could have been intercepted and prevented if suppliers were asking questions of each other or testing products actually received before use. The you have to trust your suppliers works if all the suppliers are sourced
within one nation and functioning under the same code. Chinese exporters have come up with some creative ways to avoid Chinese
government inspection by altering export product numbers on bills of lading in the ChemNutra case. If no inspection of what is received is done by U.S. manufacturers before use, that's what makes for such awful problems as the pet food recalls of 2007 and the lethal heparin product produced by a U.S. drug manufacturer in the early part of this year.

The cost savings on foreign imports apparently are good. But part of what seems to lower those costs is a lack of quality control and
inspection which apparently is going to have to be undertaken by the U.S. manufacturers who buy them. That's why I'm thinking
Evangers needs to test what it actually receives to make sure its what it purports to be before use in its product.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 15, 2008, 04:21:21 PM
There have been some great suggestions here for things to test for so far. I would, however, like a few more responses. We will look at all suggestions here and let everyone know what we think. Please know that this is not a one day process. We may look at this for a few days, maybe longer, before we decide on a group of tests. I will update this thread with any new developments on our end.

We currently do three types of testing on our products. The first test is a sterility test. This test involves the product being incubated for a period of 3 days at a set temperature to see if there is any bacteria in the product. The second test is a moisture test. This insures that the product is within the moisture limitations that we have. The third test is called a proximate test. This test tests basically tests for all vitamin/mineral counts in our products. This test is conducted randomly. We have never found a problem in any of the products that we have made.

The US and EU only require that we do the sterility test. We do the other tests here to ensure quality.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 15, 2008, 04:24:55 PM
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/GCMSMelamine.htm
"GC-MS Screen for the Presence of Melamine, Ammeline, Ammelide and Cyanuric Acid
(Version 2.1)

I need help here in suggesting the SUL levels for each of these chemicals. So SUL levels
for melamine, ammeline, ammelide, and cyanuric acid need to be supplied. The Safe Upper
Limit for melamine on a UC Davis test I had run in May 2007 was 0.5 ppm. Is that still true?
Or is there a safe amount of any of them in current thinking? I don't know.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 15, 2008, 05:15:08 PM
Please test for mycotoxins.

These would be:

aflatoxins, zearalenone (ZON), deoxynivalenol (DON), fumonisin (Fum), T2 toxin and ochratoxin A (OTA).

"Aflatoxin in feed can poison livestock if enough is consumed. Lower concentrations can produce residues in milk and meat."

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/xchg/dpi/hs.xsl/4790_4907_ENA_HTML.htm


5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 15, 2008, 05:17:18 PM
Please test for dioxin.

The stuff's in everything, nowadays.

5CatMom
= ^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kb on May 15, 2008, 05:40:35 PM
While I know every single batch can't be tested for every single possibility, here are some of the tests I'd like to see:
-melamine - on products containing rice flour
-mycotoxins - there are several different kinds of these - on products containing grain (rice, oatmeal, barley)
-potato toxins - on products containing potato
-salmonella
-botulism - in light of the FDA notice
-acetaminophen
If the same vitamin pre-mix is used in all products, maybe a test of that pre-mix that it meets expected levels and for unkown toxins.  

As a BTW for forum members, I emailed Natural Balance about 2 weeks ago about any plans for adding tests for potato toxins and I haven't heard anything back.  Not impressed.  


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 15, 2008, 05:46:02 PM
3catkidneyfailure, the only test that would cover your concerned areas is our proximate test. This test does cover a broad range of items, but I will have to contact Joel again later to get the specifics. Trouw has always provided us with what we need, and has worked with us to produce our custom premix. Our premix has changed over time, and we have been able to get them to change a few of our vitamin sources to naturally produced sources, instead of synthetically obtained sources. As stated earlier, we will look at all postings here and consider each request.

Thank you for your inquiry


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on May 15, 2008, 05:48:19 PM
Mr. Weaver,
If you are 100% confident that your products are safe then you wouldn't have a problem with this suggestion.

1) Designate a 3rd party from this forum to personally have your foods tested.  Sealed and unopened bags and cans will be purchased & tested at your expense.

2) This forum will choose what to test for and what laboratories are used.

3) Allow your results to be posted on this board.

This is the only way anyone will believe the results are accurate.  IMO, If you are not comfortable with this then you are not 100% confident that your food is safe.  


 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 15, 2008, 05:51:05 PM
kb, our standard sterility test covers botulism. The process involves storing the product in an isolated container for 3 days at the temperature that bacteria, like botulism, grows best in (95 degrees to be exact). We test every single batch for this, and every test has come back negative. If you have further questions about this test, please contact Joel Sher in our office, he knows more about this test than I do.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Brenton Weaver on May 15, 2008, 05:58:22 PM
I am afraid that I will be unable to answer any more questions tonight. I am getting married this Saturday and have to pick an elderly aunt up from the airport. I know that I did the honeymoon-wedding thing backwards (for those of you paying attention to my early posts), but it worked out really well for us. I will be able to answer more questions tomorrow.

Brenton Weaver
Evanger's Pet Foods


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on May 15, 2008, 06:09:31 PM
I see my post was not answered.   ??? ??? ??? ???

I didnt expect it would be.  :D





Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 15, 2008, 06:14:45 PM
First of all congratulations on your upcoming wedding. Secondly I am very happy to see the open dialog going on about safety and ingredients. I am not at all happy about your lefthanded attempt to sort of say maybe it wasn't me. Obviously you have all of my contact information as well as the information for your "blackmailer".All you need to do is say they are not the same.Again I have never asked for anything from your company except the refund that was offered to me. I have also never filed any complaint except with your company or threatened to in any way. I have now filed complaints with an attorney,the FDA and contacted the press about the way I feel you are falsely accusing me.This was all done today,after failure I believe on your part to clear this up. Again I offer what is left of the food for independant testing. You can contact me here or through the information your company has for me. And please don't tell me that 4 people lost it again. Or that the phone system is down or that I am caught in your email spam filter.The copy of the original order with invoice # is on this thread.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 15, 2008, 06:17:36 PM
About those vitamins/premixes,

Regardless of your supplier, where your supplier gets the stuff is what matters.  Likely, all the ingredients originate off shore.

That means, without proper testing done by you (or maybe your supplier), you're potentially one shipment away from disaster.

Please find out what testing is done at all points in your supply chain.  If your supplier is merely accepting certificates of purity from off shore - that's bad.

Your contract with your supplier should specifiy what parameters are tested and what are the acceptable limits.

You're dealing with a global supply chain, not the guy down the street.

What is a proximate test?

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on May 15, 2008, 06:43:42 PM
Mr. Weaver just logged back on.

How's the aunt? 

He must live close to the airport.

 Brenton Weaver  07:41:04 PM Viewing the topic April 24, 08 Evanger's FDA Orders Food Maker to Obtain Emerg. Operating Permit.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 15, 2008, 07:14:14 PM
Other suggestions:

1.  Are you a member of the PFI?  If so, cancel your membership.

2.  Hire a full time employee to keep an eye on the FDA and the EPA.  They aren't here to help us.  

Watch for changes in tolerance levels on imported foodstuffs and on pesticide residues.  Watch for changes on what's allowed in animal feed.

The big Ag/Chem companies aren't here to help us, either.

Here's a fun fact to know and tell at the next pet food company hoopla:

     In 1999, Novartis petitioned the EPA to change the residue tolerance on cyromazine (a pesticide).  At the same time, the EPA also decided to no longer test for melamine.  The Federal Register states:

"EPA also proposes to remove melamine, a metabolite of cyromazine from the tolerance expression since it is no longer considered a residue of concern."

and, 

"At that time EPA agreed with FDA's Cancer Assessment Committee that melamine was not a carcinogen, per se, but was indirectly responsible for the induction of urinary bladder neoplasia through production of stones in the bladder."

http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-PEST/1999/September/Day-15/p24047.htm

IMHO, since this information was posted in the Federal Register, an online document, it didn't take long for the crooks of the world to figure out how to game the system.  So they adulterated wheat flour with melamine because the US doesn't test for it.  And because US protein tests don't really test for protein (LOL, the tests are 100 years old, and really test for nitrogen), who would know the difference?

The moral to the story is that pet food companies should pay attention to what the bureaucrats are doing, because their headlights don't shine down the road very far.

Then, Pet Food CEO's will experience much less "shock and awe", and we'll have fewer dead pets.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 15, 2008, 08:13:46 PM
Here's some information I just found:

  http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/youropinions.php?opinionid=29322

posted by JOELSHER on 28 Apr 2008 at 9:34 am
As I indicated on my comment. The FDA release is inaccurate in that it states that we (EVANGERS) are under an emergency permit, we are not. It also states that we have received an order to obtain an "emergency permit". That is true. However there are other options that are available to continue operations. We have chosen one of those option. I am certain very few people understand the technicalities within the rules and regulations of LOW ACID CAN FOOD as outlined bt FDA. I am also certain that very few people have ever heard of an "emergeny Permit". I can tell tou this, THERE ARE NO RECALLS OR SAFETY ISSUES WITH OUR FOOD. In this forum I cannot go through the rules and regulation of the FDA as related to LACF. It would be hundreds of pages.. Much of the FDA news release include boiler plate responses associated with canning and much of it is taken out of context. If it hadn't been for a large canned petfood recall last year and more recently a couple of people (canned) food recalls, this would probably been a nonevent.
THANK YOU for your response to our statement JOEL SHER V.P. EVANGERS


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: trudy1 on May 16, 2008, 04:39:54 AM
You're right Don. A nonevent? Every one that dies is a very big "event.".
So, just lost a couple, sweep it under the rug.  >:(


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 16, 2008, 05:16:32 AM
Mr. Sher,

Having been involved with engineering/manufacturing companies that were regulated by FAA and FDA, I'm familiar with their rules, regulations and inspections. 

I can tell you that what is foisted on pet owners as "a regulated pet food industry" is pitiful.

The word "regulated" means that some force of law is involved in the regulation process.  And yet, we learn that FDA has no authority to force compliance with rules and regulations for pet food companies.  In other words, compliance is voluntary.

IMHO, the result is an industry that:

1.  Operates helter-skelter without adequate control of the manufacturing processes involved.         
2.  Is oblivious to potential hazzards created by the Global Supply Chain.
3.  Relies too heavily on the FDA, instead of creating their own high standards.
4.  Is brainwashed by the Pet Food Institute - who believes that junk in a can/bag is acceptable.
5.  Believes that pet owners are morons.
 
There was a time when the Feds would padlock the doors if your operations were screwed up, but those times are, sadly, long gone.

The above is IMHO, of course.

5CatMom
=^..^=

5/18 Edited to improve clarity.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 16, 2008, 07:13:27 AM
I had to compromise vitamin and mineral supplements down to the best human
grade I could find for home cooking. The words natural and even organic have been
modified lately at the FDA. So would it be possible to find out if your vitamin/premix suppliers
are using human grade?

Based on some PFI applications to the EPA for continued use of certain pesticides under
a continuing use exemption, I would like to know what pesticides are used at Evangers manufacturing plants.
Some of these pesticides that the PFI is applying for the use of are toxic to kidneys and
carcenogenic to the best of my knowledge and belief.

Thanks for continuing efforts, and congratulations, Mr. Weaver.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Katie on May 16, 2008, 12:08:04 PM
Like 3cat, I too had to compromise vitamin/mineral supplements for my homecooking down to the best human grade I could find. So I would be interested in whether Evangers is using human grade premix suppliers and would suggest that they test their premixes in house prior to their use. I would also be interested in how they determine what % of each vitamin and mineral they add to their formula. Is it based upon veterinary nutritionist studies.

I would feel more comfortable with Evangers if there were a written apology posted here for what was intimated about Lesliek.

I'm glad that Evangers is asking questions and posting information but after last March it will take a lot more honesty to gain my trust as a consumer.

5catmom; your IMHO is also IMHO.

Katie


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 16, 2008, 01:48:27 PM
http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/salmonellatainted-pfstill-with-us-t4841.0.html;new

http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSCOL56867120080515

Reuters May 15, 2008

"Contaminated dry dog food was the source of an outbreak of Salmonella infections affecting people in 19 states, public health officials report in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, a publication of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"This investigation, the first one to identify dry dog food as the source of human Salmonella infections, demonstrates that dry pet food may be contaminated with Salmonella and be an under-recognized source of human infections, especially in young children, the investigators say.

My point, based on really good suggestions in this thread beginning at page 17 onward, is that, in summary so far, Evangers consider:

querying all suppliers as to the actual sources of Evangers' raw materials, and understanding imports are cheaper but not quality
controlled seemingly, Evangers track down and test all imports to ensure they are what they purport to be. Martin pointed out your Illinois supplier has been involved in at least one recall.

that you seriously look at and investigate Sandi's Natural Balance testing model for pet food companies

that you seriously look at and try to answer Offly_irked's and 5CatMom's questions

That seems to be a Friday, May 16, 2008 summary of about how far we've gotten, lacking specific further information on the
company's quality assurance/quality control programs and the current test results it has to offer.

A lot of us have known lesliek for a very long time, Mr. Weaver, through these forums and know her to be most kind and
caring. If you didn't intend to directly implicate Leslie's conflicting test results and prior customer complaint to Evangers,
your post about extortion was not a gentlemanly thing to do. Perhaps you could be persuaded that she deserves a
direct apology for an ill-expressed remark having nothing to do with her at all.







Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: WagginTail on May 16, 2008, 02:15:48 PM
Maybe dumb question,,,,,, but why doesn't the CDC have to release the name of the plant or the name of the dog food products?  They have tested, found problems, but all they say is a plant in Penn? and that is all?  Anyone else find this odd,,,,,,or is it just me?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 16, 2008, 02:46:48 PM
http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/salmonellatainted-pfstill-with-us-t4841.0.html

When you work back in time through various old news releases and FDA recalls, you'll find that it's Mars, Inc.  Not sure if they are permitted to release names--during the major recalls, it took the same kind of tracing to find out some of the ChemNutra clients other than Menu Foods.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 16, 2008, 02:49:47 PM
Thanks, as always, menusux, for the tracing back to Mars.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: LoveDogs on May 16, 2008, 03:28:12 PM
5CatMom, I'm curious, you said you mentioned you worked in "the biz"  what did you do?

"Having worked in "the biz" for many years, I'm familiar with FDA (and FAA) rules and regulations, inspections" as quoted by you.

I am just looking for what more credibility you have than the company who is actually manufacturing the product and working with the FDA, USDA, CRC, etc....


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 16, 2008, 03:35:10 PM

I know that some people here will want to know why we do not investigate every possible aspect of our foods, but sometimes you have to trust your suppliers. We trust that they provide us with exactly what they say they are providing us with. It’s the same as if you go to the grocery store. When you buy a piece of meat, you trust that the meat has passed FDA inspections. Any number of meats and vegetables can contain many different types of bacteria, and you have to trust that what you are buying is safe. We have a relationship like that with our suppliers because we trust them. We buy only from people that we know.

This is exactly how most people bought their pet foods.  We trusted.

Look where it got us and what it did to our animals. We lost them, and we're caring for the damaged ones - struggling to get answers so that we don't feel the guilt from feeding them another pet food that will end their lives.  We've been there, done that.
 
That is precisely why it is extremely upsetting that Evanger's hasn't answered what test & safety protocols they do have in place and what your GMPs are or when you act like you're insulted because we ask and question such things.

If what you said above is why I've had no answers to my questions about your safety testing & due diligence, then what else can you expect reactions are to your not responding and what appears to be cherry-picking questions?

In May 2007, the CVM issued a letter (and if memory serves me correctly, there's one somewhere they did with Pet Food more prominent):

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/Feedmanufacturers.htm

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is taking this opportunity to remind feed and feed ingredient manufacturers of their legal responsibility to ensure that every ingredient used in their products is safe for its intended use, whether the product is meant to be used to feed animals intended for human consumption or non-food animals such as pets. "

While I agree it is nice you want to know what we'd like to see tested, I want to see what you already test for and what you rely on as a business entity manufacturing pet foods that you are ensuring that "every ingredient used in their (your )products is (are ) safe for its intended use.."  

I seriously doubt that I am the only one interested in that.

In April 2007, Stephen Sundlof said in the Senate hearing:

http://www.fda.gov/ola/2007/petfood041207.html

"Background on FDA Regulation of Pet Food
The pet food industry is responsible for adherence to good manufacturing practices. FDA conducts risk-based inspections targeted toward products that pose the greatest risks to public health. However, inspections cannot identify every potential contaminant and are only one aspect of our work to detect and contain problem such as this. In addition, it is important for all participants in the production and distribution process to maintain the highest standards for safety to protect the American consumer, whether that consumer is human or animal. As with human food safety, FDA recognizes that we need to use strong science capable of identifying both the sources of risk and effective control measure. To that end, FDA is working to develop a risk-based Animal Feed Safety System that describes how animal feed should made, distributed, and used. The Animal Feed Safety System is designed to minimize risks to humans and animals from unsafe animal feed.

And this is an article that mentions the Castleberry & Natural Balance issues with LACF:

http://www.best-dog-food-guide.com/cvm.html

"For canned dog food the same rules apply as for canned foods for human use and these are strict! Since 1973 specific rules for low acid canned foods exist to ensure safety from harmful bacteria and their toxins. Specifically Clostridium botulinum is the reason for this rule and defined GMP’s (Good Manufacturing Processes). Rules apply to equipment designs and processing as well as trained supervisory personnel.

In July of 2007, the US faced a recall of ‘Natural Balance’ canned dog food because of botulism fear. Four people had been taken to hospital because of botulism poisoning after eating Castleberry’s Hot Dog Chili Sauce. For over three decades the US has not experienced an outbreak of botulism due to commercially canned foods; this is extremely rare."

And then, lets look at the FDA notice in April for Evanger's , and the Evanger responses - posting discounting, saying only paperwork.. and then approach where we are again in this thread, which I hope you have a better understanding of it all... it's not "off the chart" pet owners asking for something because of the notice, it's more than a years worth of learning and questioning.. and worry that the pet food industry has taken very little time to address as adults that are responsible for the products, their target markets, and their end users, the consumer who pays for it... and folks like here and the questions asked.. and the reason unanswered questions and "trust" will not resolve any of this.

We've had other companies in here, and for me personally, there is one company, whose products I only used a couple of, whose executive, Mr. Goldman,  came here and I think by far more than any others, he has shown respect and earned respect from many of us... and I've tried more of his products because of that. They're struggling like all the other pfcs.. as they have to come up in the market and provide something besides an advertisement, super premium and "trust" me statements.






Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 16, 2008, 03:37:17 PM
5CatMom, I'm curious, you said you mentioned you worked in "the biz"  what did you do?

"Having worked in "the biz" for many years, I'm familiar with FDA (and FAA) rules and regulations, inspections" as quoted by you.

I am just looking for what more credibility you have than the company who is actually manufacturing the product and working with the FDA, USDA, CRC, etc....

Welcome to Itchmo, LoveDogs.  I don't believe 5CatMom was waiving any special credentials in her posts... many of us here have learnt a TON about petfood manufacture/ingredients/formulas/mixing, reulations (or lack of)  etc etc over that past year since the recalls... through personal research and sharing of information...  if you stick around, you may learn a ton too... so I hope you do!   ;D


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: sharky on May 16, 2008, 04:39:06 PM
5CatMom, I'm curious, you said you mentioned you worked in "the biz"  what did you do?

"Having worked in "the biz" for many years, I'm familiar with FDA (and FAA) rules and regulations, inspections" as quoted by you.

I am just looking for what more credibility you have than the company who is actually manufacturing the product and working with the FDA, USDA, CRC, etc....

Welcome to Itchmo, LoveDogs.  I don't believe 5CatMom was waiving any special credentials in her posts... many of us here have learnt a TON about petfood manufacture/ingredients/formulas/mixing, reulations (or lack of)  etc etc over that past year since the recalls... through personal research and sharing of information...  if you stick around, you may learn a ton too... so I hope you do!   ;D

Very rarely do I wholly agree with Kaffe ... but Yes many on here are Even running tests on foods that are NOT required by any regulatory agency... Right now TOO many agencies are in charge and it seems many dont know what the other is doing or not doing


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 16, 2008, 04:43:00 PM
I just realized I left out of my Friday, May 16 summary what info we currently have on Evangers' tests per Mr. Weaver:

"We currently do three types of testing on our products. The first test is a sterility test. This test involves the product being incubated for a period of 3 days at a set temperature to see if there is any bacteria in the product. The second test is a moisture test. This insures that the product is within the moisture limitations that we have. The third test is called a proximate test. This test tests basically tests for all vitamin/mineral counts in our products. This test is conducted randomly. We have never found a problem in any of the products that we have made."

Lacks some detail that could be commented on regarding frequency, test batches included, what bacteria? moisture test I assume is
guaranteed analysis, excluding carbohyrate content, as most of the industry does? and SUL standards employed for which vitamin/mineral amounts, etc.? We're not trying for proprietary business information, Mr. Weaver, just improvement for the company
and our furkids, and to help consumers assess purchasing choice.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 16, 2008, 04:46:50 PM

5CatMom, I'm curious, you said you mentioned you worked in "the biz"  what did you do?

"Having worked in "the biz" for many years, I'm familiar with FDA (and FAA) rules and regulations, inspections" as quoted by you.

I am just looking for what more credibility you have than the company who is actually manufacturing the product and working with the FDA, USDA, CRC, etc....

So are we all.  You joined April 25, making 3 posts that day:

:)

Hi all, I just saw this statement on the Evanger's website.  In my opinion Evanger's was doing the right thing and following FDA regulations.  I know I am certainly going to continue to feed my dogs Evanger's because I have seen huge benefits in their coat and energy since I put them on the food.

April 25, 2008

To Our Valued Customers:

The US Food & Drug Administration conducted a routine inspection of Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc. during February & March of 2008.  As a result of the inspection, the FDA raised questions regarding recordkeeping.  Neither Evanger’s nor FDA has received ANY customer complaints questioning the safety of Evanger’s products relating to this minor recordkeeping issue.

The FDA has not raised any questions as to the safety of any of Evanger’s products.

Although FDA has raised these questions, Evanger’s continues to make and distribute its products with FDA approval.  Evanger’s is working closely with expert process consultants, TechniCal Inc., which has already fully addressed many of FDA’s inquiries, and we expect to have all FDA concerns fully satisfied shortly.

Evanger’s is committed to providing high quality, safe, and nutritious all-natural and organic pet food, as it has done since 1935.

Respectfully,

Joel Sher
Vice President
Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc.

The company does not use any by-products in their food, I've spoken with the owner a few times about this because I was concerned with all the foreign materials that we don't know about.  However, he assured me how committed the company was to not using poor parts of meat to make a better pet food.  They've been in business for 75 years, I'm not worried about this one.  According to the statement the company was in compliance with FDA regulations as well, so we shouldn't confuse the actual matter of the situation.

The company does not use any by-products in their food,

What company?? Were we talking about some specific company on this thread?  I'm a little confused.

No explanation as to what company you were talking about, you went on:

Can I claim that buck?  Sorry Martin, just a concerned pet owner.  Of course I saw red flags when I read the release, but I'm completely confident in the company because my dog has thrived off of their food.  We saw what happened with Menu Foods when the recall happened, they were getting ingredients from China!  If you read your dog food label, everything is completely sourced in the United States.  The company has been in business for a long time, and if there was a problem they would have been shut down a long time ago, so I will still strongly believe that this is a recordkeeping problem and there is nothing wrong with the food.

All of these posts deal with only the Evanger's issue.  There's a lot more here to read and post about, unless one's like Sandy Goodman of Nature's Variety/MI or Mr. Weaver of Evanger's.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 16, 2008, 04:51:00 PM
LoveDogs, can I just say that "credibility" and  pet food manufacturer dont necessarily go hand in hand like you suggest they do.  The 2007 pet food recalls are a perfect example of that.   ;)   


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 16, 2008, 04:51:37 PM
Menusux said "There's a lot more here to read and post about, unless one's like Sandy Goodman of Nature's Variety/MI or Mr. Weaver of Evanger's."

Or, Peter Atkins of Natura  ;D ;D :-X


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 16, 2008, 04:55:02 PM
LoveDogs, can I just say that "credibility" and  pet food manufacturer dont necessarily go hand in hand like you suggest they do.  The 2007 pet food recalls are a perfect example of that.   ;)   

I'm afraid I have to agree... honestly, I wish I could believe whole-heartedly and as naively as I did two years ago... but I CANNOT afford to --- not after March 2007  - my cats depend on my decisions.... and based on our collective experiences, more and more it has become apparent that every decision has to be an INFORMED decision.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 16, 2008, 05:23:21 PM
I know that I said I would return the refund of $54.10 to Evangers, but on further thinking about it I have changed my mind. IMHO they sold me a defective product and I should not be out the money for it. However I do not wish to keep anything from them which could encourage extortion or blackmail allegations. I have decided to do something positive with it & will donate it to pfpsa.org for testing costs on pet food.I will post a copy of the donation receipt.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on May 16, 2008, 05:24:05 PM
5CatMom, I'm curious, you said you mentioned you worked in "the biz"  what did you do?

"Having worked in "the biz" for many years, I'm familiar with FDA (and FAA) rules and regulations, inspections" as quoted by you.

I am just looking for what more credibility you have than the company who is actually manufacturing the product and working with the FDA, USDA, CRC, etc....

LoveDogs,

IMO many of the people on this forum have more credibility than some of the manufactures out there.  I personally would trust the folks on this forum to make a home-cooked meal for my dog rather than trust something that came out of a can.

Each post you have written promotes one product.  Each post you have written is sarcastic and somewhat rude.  Are you Joel or do you just work for them?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on May 16, 2008, 05:47:45 PM
Thinking back,  ::) there was a LoveDogs on the comment boards on Itchmo way back when. Not the forums.  I don’t know if there is a way to look it up or not but if I remember correctly there was a LoveDogs that was quite disrespectful to others.  I wonder if it's the same person???  Does anyone else remember?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: PFR07PS on May 16, 2008, 07:16:51 PM

Menusux said "There's a lot more here to read and post about, unless one's like Sandy Goodman of Nature's Variety/MI or Mr. Weaver of Evanger's."

Or, Peter Atkins of Natura  ;D ;D :-X



Which brings up a good point –  this situation is really no different from the one with Innova/Natura (or others). 

Recurring Theme:
Pets get sick. 
Pet Owner monitors and determines the one common factor to the sickness is the pet food. 
Pet Owner attempts to work with company to see if there are any formula changes, other complaints, etc. 
Company says no changes, no problems, great food. 
Pets continue to have problems. 
Pet Owner monitors and still believes sickness is linked to pet food. 
Pet Owner pays to have pet food tested. 
Laboratory advises Pet Owner that contaminants and/or high levels of supplements are detected in said pet food. 
Pet Owner contacts Company hoping (and desperate) for assistance. 
Company replies that all their tests are fine, no other complaints and their food is great.

At this point any manner of responses can occur:
-  Pet Owner is accused of not providing samples to Company for testing
-  Pet Owner is accused of not communicating with Company
-  Pet Owner is accused of false statements
-  Pet Owner is accused of extortion
-  Laboratory is discredited. 
etc, etc, etc,

Bottomline, one thing that is common to these experiences with the pet food companies is commonly seen in good “public relations” maneuvers.   You take the focus off the negative and you turn the focus to something else more positive.  If a company has a problem, the PR group is called in to downplay what is going wrong and focus on something good.  It is simply a diversionary tactic.  They do not address the issue at hand, but attempt to whitewash over it. 

Think about all the questions that have been asked on this thread.  How many of them have actually been answered? 

Instead, the focus was changed to put you to work thinking of various types of analyses you would like to see completed.  So, what happened to answering the questions? 

LeslieK explicitly asked that Mr. Weaver respond if he was accusing her of extortion.  Mr. Weaver responded with ambiguous words. 

The FDA issued an Order to Obtain Emergency Operating Permit and the company responded that the FDA report was highly inaccurate and misleading; falsely stated and then absolutely denied they were even operating under the Order. 

I’m glad everyone is suggesting things to test for.  However, I hope we do not lose focus on the original list of questions, the horrendous allegations against LeslieK and the issue of private test results. 

At some point, the pet food industry forgot that we are totally responsible for their salaries and the success/failure of their companies. 
Donna C


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 16, 2008, 07:25:17 PM
Thank you Donna C. Very well said. The more contact I have with any pet food companies the happier I am that all of mine will eat homemade. I do want to see open dialog and hope for improvements,however I honestly think we are beating our collective heads against a brick wall. They didn't get it before last years recall and they don't get it now.I do not know anyone in any income bracket that would not happily pay more for something totally safe and nutritious. We just can't seem to find it available commercially.While I continue to work for and hope for change in this industry, I must admit to feeling much more pessimistic about it.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 16, 2008, 08:47:55 PM
Wow Donna, extremely well said!  What ever happened to customer respect and satisfaction, it used to be the customer was always right.  One thing that maybe wasnt noticed in the post I put before is that Mr Sher admitted in a post at another site that it was true that they were ordered by FDA to obtain an emergency operating permit, but said there are other options they could take to continue operating, whatever that is.  They, to me, had kind of tried to imply that they werent even ordered to obtain the operating permit, when they were accusing FDA of making false statements and I have yet to see where that is the case.   

Edited to add:  I looked back on the statement I received from FDA and there was this:      
"The regulation does allow the firm to have a processing authority evaluate the  processing of each lot for adequacy and to submit release requests in writing to FDA for specific lots."  So it could be that is what Mr Sher is referring to when he talks of other options they could take to continue operating.

Evangers came here, we didnt go to their site.  They brought up their extortion issue, what was the purpose of that, I somehow dont think there were good intentions with that, hopefully it wasnt for intimidation purposes but if it was, obviously it hasnt worked at Itchmo,  ;)  But if I was in Leslie's shoes, I would be upset too.  Weaver could have put that to rest real quick but so far has not.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 16, 2008, 09:43:10 PM
LoveDogs,

Thanks for your interest in my resume, but in order to answer your question about what I did, I need to know the time period you're interested in.  LOL, I did many things for a very long time.

I don't understand your comment about credibility.  If you re-read my post, you'll find no claims of credibility.  

Don't know if this helps, but the companies I was involved with were regulated.  Pet food companies aren't regulated, according to FDA (if you have any questions about this, I'll be happy to help you.  But please send PM, so that this thread stays on topic).

If pet food companies were, in fact, regulated, the PET FOOD RECALL of 2007 may have been prevented. 

I don't understand why FDA was in Mr. Shur's plant.  If I were him, I would've called the police.

5CatMom
=^..^=          


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on May 17, 2008, 04:48:19 AM
I agree with so much that has been posted here by the posters that I feel I have gotten to know over this last year---the only thing I add is that this is OUR forum and we only posted this topic as released by the FDA and the response Sandi K got when questioning the FDA using Mr Weaver's own words....after the debacle of 2007 I feel it is each pet food companies responsible to prove that their food is safe and healthy, not ours to disprove it!  Ignorance is not bliss and the pet food company needs to realize that we are getting educated in their field and we don't like what we have discovered.  We are the customer, the consumer, the pet owner and we deserve better than what led up to 2007.  With the declining economy the possibility for more greed related adulterations like the wheat flour melamine cocktail and the heparin -apparently deliberate-- will be on the increase and the pet food companies should be taking a pro-active approach---not re-active.   >:(


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 17, 2008, 05:04:53 AM
There have been some great suggestions here for things to test for so far. I would, however, like a few more responses. We will look at all suggestions here and let everyone know what we think. Please know that this is not a one day process. We may look at this for a few days, maybe longer, before we decide on a group of tests. I will update this thread with any new developments on our end.

We currently do three types of testing on our products. The first test is a sterility test. This test involves the product being incubated for a period of 3 days at a set temperature to see if there is any bacteria in the product. The second test is a moisture test. This insures that the product is within the moisture limitations that we have. The third test is called a proximate test. This test tests basically tests for all vitamin/mineral counts in our products. This test is conducted randomly. We have never found a problem in any of the products that we have made.

The US and EU only require that we do the sterility test. We do the other tests here to ensure quality.

Sterility Tests - Isn't that part of the LACF protocol?
(and this page also appears to be the FDA check list for an LACF inspection)

http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=73355332819032&mkt=en-US&lang=en-US&w=63f25f2d,9ba5e95c&FORM=CVRE

Proximate Tests - Proximate analysis:  crude protein, crude fat, crude fiber, moisture.  

(I haven't found a separate requirement for the "moisture test" unless perhaps related to LACF.)

A good example of what they are for-the proximate analysis chart on the pet food label.

"Guaranteed Analysis: At minimum, a pet food label must state guarantees for the minimum percentages of crude protein and crude fat, and the maximum percentages of crude fiber and moisture. The "crude" term refers to the specific method of testing the product, not to the quality of the nutrient itself."

This proximate analysis chart on the container is what the State Dept of Agriculture or Animal Feeds randomly check to ensure that the contents are indeed what the label on the package claims and part of the requirements to sell pet foods and are part of AAFCO requirements/definitions. (see your state departments where pet food companies register). You can also contact your state to see if they will check the product and typically has no cost if you are a resident of that state. Some states require alot of digging or just don't do them. At consumer request, some of these labs are equipped to check for other substances (melamine, cyanuric acid, acetaminophen, in fact, my state ag was testing a fish sample to see if it was  the kind as advertised (fish advertised/sold as grouper, but wasn't)  (I should have time to go buy some Evanger products and ask my state to test them.)

It appears that the tests Brenton refers to are pretty much a requirement.  

Perhaps some input from Brenton would help make sure we're all on the same page.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Donna on May 17, 2008, 05:24:40 AM
Are not these the same directives in human food processing matters?  This protocol wreaks of the reason ConAgra was shut down.  They were "called" on their record keeping procedures, too, or should I say, lack of proper record keeping when the E-coli tainted pot pies appeared last October.  I recieved no response to that matter, as I was interested in the regularity of cleaning the machines and drums, with sterility of the entire plant mandated or at least bi-weekly, not announced visits.  Sadly, this is all too familiar to me. 

Sincerely,
Donna
average citizen for justice and equality


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 17, 2008, 05:28:07 AM
Are not these the same directives in human food processing matters?  This protocol wreaks of the reason ConAgra was shut down.  They were "called" on their record keeping procedures, too, or should I say, lack of proper record keeping when the E-coli tainted pot pies appeared last October.  I recieved no response to that matter, as I was interested in the regularity of cleaning the machines and drums, with sterility of the entire plant mandated or at least bi-weekly, not announced visits.  Sadly, this is all too familiar to me. 

Sincerely,
Donna
average citizen for justice and equality

Upon information and belief, LACF procedures for human / animal are the same.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Donna on May 17, 2008, 05:53:16 AM
Yes, I thought so when I went to the link you posted, Offly-irked, and began reading the testing protocol questionaire.

Thanks for the confirmation, even though it does not provide 100% satisfaction in the comfort level I feel, as it relates to what I would feed my dog, my cat, my chinchilla, my family or myself.

Sincerely,
Donna
average citizen for justice and equality for ALL


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 17, 2008, 07:05:52 AM
I suggested earlier that pet food consumer standards were much higher than the failed system of FDA/CVM/AAFCO/PFI which
allowed the pet food recalls of 2007 to occur by inclusion of questionable ingredients of little or no nutritional value, lack of
clear labeling, and definitely not high enough standards of quality assurance/quality control and overall pet food safety testing.

I seems to me we're at the point where this company needs to reflect on possible better practices and tell the consumer
what it intends to do for many reasons pointed out in the previous posts. The ball seems to be in Evangers' court for
what it wants to give the consumer as a basis for purchasing decisions. I'm suspending judgement until I see (or don't see)
those decisions.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Donna on May 17, 2008, 08:44:52 AM
Thanks for the confirmation, even though it does not provide 100% satisfaction in the comfort level I feel, as it relates to what I would feed my dog, my cat, my chinchilla, my family or myself.

Allow me to clarify, the above is NOT a reflection upon Evangers pet food products, this is my own personal confidence level in ALL food and many non-food products produced, whether human or animal.  If I was unclear, I did not mean the ambiguity. 

Personally, I realize I cannot make a judgement against this company [Evangers], but I do feel I can make a judgment regarding testing protocols as mandated by the FDA, the enforcement of those by the FDA, and if maintenance of the strictest of controls are in the forefront for all manners of food products as supervised by FDA protocol, as in the case of ConAgra.

Sincerely,
Donna
average citizen for justice and equality



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 17, 2008, 05:35:23 PM
Just tried to post links at consumeraffairs to the 3 threads here,but can't. For a company that supposedly has only 2 complaints they are certainly starting to add up. 3 at consumeraffairs[not counting mine],3 here[counting mine] & 1 at the bostonterrier site about the Canidae[which they can].Since Mr Weaver specifically alluded to copper test results in the extortion allegation,IMHO you need to start wondering how many of them there are.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 17, 2008, 06:51:14 PM
From yet another pet food website:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Evangers-Pet-Food-Recall-Good-Business-Ethics

Evangers Pet Food Recall - Poor Business Ethics Or Just Forgot The Truth?
By AskSusanPeters

"Evangers Pet Foods VS FDA - Who Do You Believe?

"The FDA has posted a consumer alert on April 24, 2008 warning consumers that Evanger's Dog and Cat Food company is producing under-processed pet food which can cause botulism. The FDA states on the FDA website that Evanger's can not distribute their pet food products until changes are made and special permits are obtained by the company. Evanger's website states the FDA made an error and Evanger's is having no problems and continues to produce and distribute the Evanger's pet food and will not be conducting a pet food recall.

"Oh, Evanger's, what kind of a mess have you gotten yourself into? First off, the FDA, U.S. Food and Drug Administration, has told you that you are so far out of compliance that your company can not continue to operate and produce the pet foods under the current operation practices for your company. The FDA, which does not regulate the pet food industry, has stepped in to stop production of your products because your products have been shown to be dangerous to the people who feed the pet food to their pets. The FDA has not posted any retractions to their press releases or their consumer alerts nor have they given you, Evanger's pet food, an all clear.

"The FDA states,

""As outlined in the Food Protection Plan, the FDA uses a risk-based approach to locate the areas of greatest risk for foods, and targets preventive controls and inspections to those areas, " said Dr. Stephen Sundlof, director, Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition. "The FDA's authority to issue an order requiring an emergency permit is an enforcement tool designed to prevent unsafe foods from reaching consumers."

"The FDA issues an "Order of Need for Emergency Permit" if the agency determines that a company fails to meet the regulatory requirements to process a product that does not present a health risk. For Evanger's to resume business, the company must document that corrective actions and processing procedures have been implemented to ensure that the finished product will not present a health hazard."

"Also involved in the effort to protect man and beast is CFSAN. CFSAN is responsible for regulating all human and animal LACF processing. Looks to me like big trouble if these two regulatory bodies are involved, not a simple error on the part of the FDA as Evanger's would like for us to believe.

"Here is what the FDA has found against the Evanger's company.

"A recent inspection revealed significant deviations from prescribed documentation of processes, equipment, and recordkeeping in the production of the company's thermally processed low acid canned food (LACF) products. These problems could result in under-processed pet foods, which can allow the survival and growth of Clostridium botulinum (C. botulinum), a bacterium that causes botulism in some animals as well as in humans.

"Now, let's take a look at what Evanger's website has to say in the press release given from the Evanger's company.

""Contrary to a news release issued by the FDA Thursday, April 24, 2008, Evanger's continues to make and distribute its products with FDA approval. Evanger's is working closely with the FDA and already has addressed many of the FDA's questions. Evanger's expects to have the few remaining FDA queries fully satisfied shortly."

"Evanger's futher states:

""No Evanger's product has been recalled, nor is there any indication that any Evanger's product is under-processed, unsafe, or contaminated in any way."

"Who is the liar in this matter? Evanger's, are you trying to kill pets and people? You know your products are below the standard set by the federal government but you go right on with business as usual? How long has Evanger's business ethics been so low? Does Evanger's want us to believe the United States FDA is the liar? Evanger's press release is saying the FDA is telling a lie and Evanger's continues to do wrong even though the FDA said Evanger's must stop.

"Shame on you Evanger's. How stupid do you think the public is? We love our pets and we value our own lives. Do you really think we want you to continue to decieve the public, gobble up our hard earned money, ignore consumer alerts issued from the FDA, and conduct business as usual? I won't be buying any Evanger's products."

There's also a place for comments on the site, for those of you who have had problem with the food.  They recently added this about two of their dry dog foods which are not made in the Wheeling, IL plant:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Evangers-Super-Premium-Pheasant-Brown-Rice-Dry-Healthy-Dog-Foods

Evanger's Super-Premium Pheasant & Brown Rice Dry

"Ask Susan Peters - Evanger's Healthy Dog Foods?

"Evanger's Pet Food has done an awful job of making healthy dog foods. Healthy dog foods do not include needless grains and other pet health damaging ingredients.

"Over use of grains and fillers.

"Millet - Goose feed.

"Potatoes - just a filler, much like the use of beet pulp.

"Chicken fat - Used to encourage a pet to eat a product the pet would not normally eat.

"Salt - should not be added to a pet's diet.

"Sodium selenite is mainly used in the manufacture of colorless glass - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

"Pet food producers are using ingredients unfit for human consumption which are killing our pets. The ingredients in pet food must be changed!

"The use of Corn, Wheat, and Soy are causing such awful conditions in pets including:

* Dry and itchy skin
* Fever
* Ear aches
* Ear infections
* Hot Spots on the skin
* Bad breath
* Dental disease
* IBD
* Hair loss
* Sore feet
* Abnormal nail growth
* Bloat
* Weight gain
* Tumors
* Moles and warts
* Seizures
* Blindness
* Deafness
* Heart conditions
* Kidney conditions
* Liver conditions
* Early pet death

"These companies need to be held accountable for the injuries to our pets and our best friends early deaths!

"Shame on you Evanger's Pet Foods for not making Healthy Dog Foods and not following the FDA statutes. - Susan"

http://hubpages.com/hub/Evangers-Super-Premium-Chicken-Brown-Rice-Dry-Healthy-Dog-Foods

Evanger's Super-Premium Chicken & Brown Rice Dry

The comments are the same for this variety as for the Pheasant and Brown Rice above--there are also places for consumers to add their comments to these pages.

Please feel free to copy and cross-post this to other threads.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: mainecoonpeg on May 17, 2008, 06:53:38 PM
As always menusux..............YOU ROCK   ;D


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 17, 2008, 07:41:10 PM
If any of the pf co's had a clue they would all be clamoring to hire Menusux !


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 18, 2008, 08:15:27 AM
Reasonable pet food consumers have the reasonable expectation that feeding  pet food to their companion
animals is not going to result in illness, vet bills, and/or death.

Reasonable pet food manufacturers after March 16, 2007, it seems to this consumer are going to have to
start providing reasonable documentation at a pubicly viewable level that it won't.

Just poking around the internet, it seems the proximate test costs around $27. The proximate test with
minerals included is still under $50, I believe. This is from third-party testing labs. I assume it would be
less if the company has its own equipment. I'm still not sure which version Evanger's uses. I could be
mistaken, but I am unable to find a proximate testing protocol that includes vitamin levels.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 18, 2008, 10:12:21 AM
3Cat,

This is one lab that I've looked at before (Eurofins) and it appeared that there were
5 testing panels for the pet food label: Proximate, Amino Acids, Fatty Acids, Minerals & Vitamins.

Brendon identified the 3 tests as proximate, sterility, moisture, but didn't he say also vitamins & minerals ? (email from Holly Sher said: "We do random tests to make sure all our vitamins and minerals are within limits.")


http://www.eurofinsus.com/Item.html_itemServices/Petfood_Nutrition_Label.html

Quote
COMPLETE PET FOOD (DOG AND CAT FOOD) ANALYSIS

Eurofins US can provide complete testing services to obtain data for complying with AAFCO's dog and cat food nutrient profile requirements. The components of the analyses are described below and special notations are made between the dog and cat food profiles.

Proximates

Moisture Protein Ash Crude Fat Crude Fiber

Amino Acids

Alanine Arginine Aspartic Acid Cystine Glutamic Acid
Glycine Histidine Isoleucine Leucine Lysine
Methionine Phenylalanine Proline Serine Threonine
Tryptophan Tyrosine Valine Taurine* 

Fatty Acids

Arachidonic Acid* Linolenic Acid


Minerals

Calcium Chloride Copper Iodine Iron
Manganese Magnesium Phosphorus Potassium Selenium
Sodium Zinc   

Vitamins

Biotin* Choline Folic Acid Niacin Panthothenic Acid
Vitamin A Vitamin B1 Vitamin B2 Vitamin B6 Vitamin B12
Vitamin D Vitamin E Vitamin K   

* Required only for Cat Food Profile. 




Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 18, 2008, 10:32:55 AM
Thanks, Offy. With the information given so far, it could just be a question of differing laboratory
terminology, or two tests seeming to be pointed at the same thing. I don't know. As a
reasonable consumer, and with limited cost information that does not appear to be unreasonable,
I would like to know. I believe a lot of other pet food consumers would, too. Just trying to get
a clearer picture of what is being done, two or three tests?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on May 18, 2008, 10:58:09 AM

(email from Holly Sher said: "We do random tests to make sure all our vitamins and minerals are within limits.")


Anyone know what "'we do" means?
 
Are the "we do's"  in house tests, or outside lab tests?
What are the test specifications?
What are the results?
Why not post the results online? 

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 18, 2008, 11:15:17 AM
FWIW--Polly Wants a Cracker:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Evangers-Pet-Food-Recall-Good-Business-Ethics

Quote
Mike Morgan  says: 2 weeks ago

"Apparently, however, if you carefully read the press release, it's basically saying that because Evangers didn't have some records and paperwork filled out properly, the FDA can't guarantee that their foods are safe. This doesn't mean they found botulism or saw any unsafe practices or even that they physically examined any product. It just means that their paperwork wasn't in order. There's no recall and apparently not even a followup investigation of the product that one would expect if there were a genuine problem that was detected.

"Admittedly, one would hope for a food company to have all their "i's" dotted and their "t's" crossed, but I don't think this ranks as one of the most shocking pet food bloopers out there."

http://petsitusa.com/blog/?p=1125#comment-144013

Quote
Mike Morgan said, May 5, 2008 @ 4:20 pm

"Apparently, however, if you carefully read the press release, it’s basically saying that because Evangers didn’t have some records and paperwork filled out properly, the FDA can’t guarantee that their foods are safe. This doesn’t mean they found botulism or saw any unsafe practices or even that they physically examined any product. It just means that their paperwork wasn’t in order. There’s no recall and apparently not even a followup investigation of the product that one would expect if there were a genuine problem that was detected.

"Admittedly, one would hope for a food company to have all their “i’s” dotted and their “t’s” crossed, but I don’t think this ranks as one of the most shocking pet food bloopers out there.

"So who has done their research. As a college student, I feel that I am good at this. I have came to the conclusion that the FDA has acted in an irresponsible manner, like they have done in the past, at Evanger’s expense."


http://community.dog.com/forums/p/78659/615360.aspx#615360

Quote
brookcove says 04-29-2008 2:02 PM in reply to Pom Mommy

"Your dogs should be fine.  Botulism hits very fast and hard - you'd know by know if your dog had it.  It doesn't hang around in the system, either, so stopping feeding is the best solution if you are concerned.

"Apparently, however, if you carefully read the press release, it's basically saying that because Evangers didn't have some records and paperwork filled out properly, the FDA can't guarantee that their foods are safe.  This doesn't mean they found botulism or saw any unsafe practices or even that they physically examined any product.  It just means that their paperwork wasn't in order.  There's no recall and apparently not even a followup investigation of the product that one would expect if there were a genuine problem that was detected.

"Admittedly, one would hope for a food company to have all their "i's" dotted and their "t's" crossed, but I don't think this ranks as one of the most shocking pet food bloopers out there.

"You can read Evanger's own response here:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

http://community.dog.com/forums/p/78659/615360.aspx#615360

Quote
probe1957 says 04-29-2008 2:42 PM in reply to brookcove:

"I feed Evanger's.  Odie often chases his meal with a turd from the cat's litter box.  I am not terribly concerned."

http://community.dog.com/forums/p/78659/615360.aspx#615360

Quote
Evanger says 05-05-2008 5:11 PM in reply to probe1957:

"Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about.

"Apparently, however, if you carefully read the press release, it's basically saying that because Evangers didn't have some records and paperwork filled out properly, the FDA can't guarantee that their foods are safe.  This doesn't mean they found botulism or saw any unsafe practices or even that they physically examined any product.  It just means that their paperwork wasn't in order.  There's no recall and apparently not even a followup investigation of the product that one would expect if there were a genuine problem that was detected.

"Admittedly, one would hope for a food company to have all their "i's" dotted and their "t's" crossed, but I don't think this ranks as one of the most shocking pet food bloopers out there."

"There you go.  Evanger's is still the best."

The poster calling himself/herself Evanger joined the board referenced above on 4-26-2008; he/she made another post:

http://community.dog.com/forums/p/78915/618104.aspx#618104

Quote
Evanger says 05-05-2008 5:08 PM in reply to PomMommy:

"No need to worry about Evanger's dog food.  I looked deep into this issue and found out that this is all due to not them keeping the best records.  This has nothing to do with the quality of their food since at no point did they ever have to stop production and the FDA will not be doing a follow up inspection.  Just letting you know that Evanger's is still the best dog food on the market."

The company may want to look into these message boards to try to discover who may be using their name without permission.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 19, 2008, 06:40:31 AM
Menusux, Im sure the punishment for that person would be swift and hard.  Those 20 lashings with the wet noodle would be a hard sight to see.  :o


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on May 19, 2008, 07:02:44 AM
True punishment would be to force them to eat a can of food along with a cup of kibble for desert.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 20, 2008, 05:43:07 PM
For Lin of Fresno, CA:

http://itchmoforums.com/profiles/joelsher-u1841.html

joels@evangersdogfood.com


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offly_irked on May 21, 2008, 03:46:18 AM
Some explanation (official source) about Emergency Operating Permits

Starting at : http://www.fda.gov/ora/inspect_ref/igs/lacfpt1/lacfpt105.html and specifically EMERGENCY PERMIT CONTROL- 21CFR 108
thru : http://www.fda.gov/ora/inspect_ref/igs/lacfpt1/lacfpt106.html

Quote
EMERGENCY PERMIT CONTROL- 21CFR 108

The Part 108 regulations are the regulatory link from the GMP regulation (Parts 113 and 114) to Section 404 of the Act. They contain certain mandatory conditions and requirements including the requirement for compliance with 21 CFR 113 and 114 [see sections 108.25(a) and 108.35(a)].

Regulatory action taken under Part 108 is an administrative action, i.e., we take the action without going through the courts. The decision to take emergency permit action is a final agency decision, but it can be appealed through the courts.

Part 108 is divided into two Subparts, A and B. Subpart A entitled 'General Provisions' contains definitions and the enforcement mechanisms for the applications of Section 404; Subpart B, entitled 'Specific Requirements and Conditions for Exemption From or Compliance with an Emergency Permit', contains the specific mandatory conditions and requirements for acidified foods (108.25) and low-acid canned food (108.35).

Following is a discussion of each section of Subpart A and the mechanics of taking various actions under Part 108, following the normal occurrence of events, not the numerical order of each section:

SUBPART A

§108.5 - Determination of the need for a permit.

The order of determination of need for a permit is issued to the firm, by a letter signed by the Center Director, when an inspection reveals that a processor is not in compliance with the mandatory conditions and requirements of Subpart B (including Parts 113 and 114). The order specifies the mandatory conditions and requirements with which there is a lack of compliance (this is why it is important that a thorough inspection be conducted to identify all requirements which are not in compliance). The order states that the processor cannot distribute LACF or acidified food in interstate commerce until the firm is in compliance with all the mandatory conditions and requirements of Part 108.25 and/or 108.35, and 113 and/or 114, and until the firm receives a permit or advance written approval from FDA in accordance with §108.12.

The processor is afforded a hearing if he files objections to the order on the issues, e.g., the investigator reports an observation and the processor disagrees with that observation. The hearing is held within 5 days and follows the procedures in 21 CFR 16, unless the Agency decides that the objections raise no genuine and substantial issue of fact. Objection based on the processor's discontent with our decision is not a substantial issue of fact. The order is stayed pending a hearing, or a decision that a hearing is not justified. The processor can present witnesses and cross-examine FDA personnel.

§108.12 - Manufacturing, processing or packing without a permit or in violation of a permit.

Once a processor receives the order that he needs to obtain a permit, he can continue to manufacture, process or pack product, although the product cannot be introduced or delivered for introduction into interstate commerce unless the firm obtains FDA's advance written approval. We do not give such approval until the processor provides an evaluation of the potential public health significance, of each code lot, conducted by a competent authority in accordance with procedures recognized as being adequate to detect any potential public health hazard. The processor can ship product interstate to a consolidation warehouse or other storage facility which is under their control.

§108.7 - Issuance or denial of permit.

The processor must apply to FDA for issuance of a permit. The application must contain sufficient information and data to show that all mandatory requirements and conditions of the regulations are met, and that the deviations specified in the order of determination of need for a permit have been corrected or suitable interim measures have been established. All mandatory conditions and requirements must be documented as being in compliance, not just the deviations pointed out in the order.

The processor can supply photos, diagrams, records, etc. to document compliance. Some of the requirements of the regulations are procedural in nature and cannot be documented. After CFSAN receives this documentation, a thorough inspection must be conducted to determine whether the processor is in full compliance. Depending on the results of the inspection, FDA will either issue or deny a permit. Denial triggers a hearing.

FDA can attach to the permit, in addition to the mandatory requirements and conditions of the regulations, any additional requirements or conditions which may be necessary to protect public health. For example, in a few cases FDA has required that the processor hire a qualified quality control manager and prepare a standard operating procedure manual. These additional conditions are referenced in the order of need letter.

Once a processor has received a permit he operates in a normal fashion, i.e., he can distribute product without FDA approval. However, the compliance program requires FDA inspection once or twice a year to monitor the firm's compliance status. These inspections should be thorough and should concentrate on areas previously found to be out of compliance.

§108.10 - Suspension and reinstatement of permit.

When an inspection reveals that a permit holder is not in compliance with the mandatory requirements and conditions established by the permit, FDA can suspend the permit. This places the firm back under the order of determination of the need for a permit. The firm may apply for reinstatement the same way they applied for a permit. An inspection is usually conducted before a decision to reinstate is made. The processor can request a hearing at which time FDA will determine whether the permit is reinstated or suspended. Denial of reinstatement is a final agency decision from which appeal lies to the courts.

§108.6 Revocation of determination of need for permit.

A permit is required only for a temporary period (that which is necessary to protect public health). When FDA believes the permit holder is in compliance with the mandatory requirements and conditions of the regulations and is likely to remain in compliance, FDA can, on its' own initiative, or upon application of the permit holder, revoke both the determination of need for a permit and the permit which was issued. If we deny the permit holders application, the permit holder can request a hearing. The decision as to what point of time a permit holder is "likely to remain in compliance" is very subjective and based on the particular situation and the results of inspections conducted after the permit was issued. Generally, several inspections over a one or two year period, showing compliance with the regulations would be sufficient to demonstrate the likelihood that the processor will remain in compliance. Therefore, inspections performed should be thorough.

The revocation of the determination of need for a permit, and the permit, does not preclude initiation of further permit proceedings in the future if later information shows that the need for a permit exists.

§108.19 - Establishment of requirements for exemption from section 404 of the act.

This section restates part of Section 404, and that the FDA or a petitioner may propose regulations to be included in Subpart B. It also states processors are exempt from the requirement to obtain a permit only if they meet the requirements of regulations contained in Subpart B.



Joel Sher mentioned them in another forum:
Quote
2.RESPONSE TO HAROLD BARNES  posted by JOELSHER on 28 Apr 2008 at 9:34 am
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/youropinions.php?opinionid=29322

As I indicated on my comment. The FDA release is inaccurate in that it states that we (EVANGERS) are under an emergency permit, we are not. It also states that we have received an order to obtain an "emergency permit". That is true. However there are other options that are available to continue operations. We have chosen one of those option. I am certain very few people understand the technicalities within the rules and regulations of LOW ACID CAN FOOD as outlined bt FDA. I am also certain that very few people have ever heard of an "emergeny Permit". I can tell tou this, THERE ARE NO RECALLS OR SAFETY ISSUES WITH OUR FOOD. In this forum I cannot go through the rules and regulation of the FDA as related to LACF. It would be hundreds of pages.. Much of the FDA news release include boiler plate responses associated with canning and much of it is taken out of context. If it hadn't been for a large canned petfood recall last year and more recently a couple of people (canned) food recalls, this would probably been a nonevent.
THANK YOU for your response to our statement JOEL SHER V.P. EVANGERS


** emphasis (italics/underline) added by Offly_irked

Well, it's a long post but it's pretty good read about the regs...


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 21, 2008, 05:44:55 AM
http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/not-much-evangers-on-the-shelves-t4866.0.html



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: awknddragn on May 21, 2008, 04:59:44 PM
Hello everyone -- it's been quite a few days -- I have just needed some time.  I posted about my Sammie girl who passed away.
I will post my update over in the memorial section rather than detract from the discussion.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 21, 2008, 05:19:43 PM
Hello everyone -- it's been quite a few days -- I have just needed some time.  I posted about my Sammie girl who passed away.
I will post my update over in the memorial section rather than detract from the discussion.

 :'( :'( :'(  I am so sorry to hear this. {{{hugs, hugs, hugs}}}


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 22, 2008, 07:43:04 AM
awknddragon: My thoughts and heart are with you for Sammie.

Evangers, and every other pet food and food manufacturer in the country needs to look
carefully at this:

http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/teenager-develops-way-to-detect-melamine-and-cyanuric-acid-t4935.0.html;new


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 22, 2008, 07:59:59 AM
Didnt Mr Weaver say he would be back the next day to answer some questions and that was on 5-15.......I guess Evangers doesnt like us very much.... :P


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 23, 2008, 09:01:23 AM
Here are the rceipts for the donation of the refund. Hope it shows up, you all know how good I am at this !(http://i26.tinypic.com/2s8k210.jpg)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 23, 2008, 09:08:40 AM
Trying again !(http://[IMG]http://i26.tinypic.com/2s8k2l0.jpg)[/img]


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 23, 2008, 09:12:51 AM
Well, I can't get it. $50.00 to   http://www.pfpsa.org  & $5.00 to http://www.vetcoanimalfoundation.org. .


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on May 23, 2008, 09:41:06 AM
(http://i26.tinypic.com/2s8k2l0.jpg)

Right click on the red "X" , view properties, and get the URL from there does it again.  :)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 23, 2008, 01:06:56 PM
Good one, Lesleik!  I'm done with Evangers.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 23, 2008, 01:38:31 PM
Im done with them too.  I had some of the food, fed a little of it many weeks ago, and its been tossed, well not all of it, just in case anyone needs any for testing.  I am fed up with companies attitudes such as what Evangers displayed in bad-mouthing FDA, making it sound like FDA's statement was so totally off base.    Making it sound like it was just something wrong with a little paperwork, when their could have been much more serious consequences at some point down the road including botulism.  Perhaps FDA prevented another 2007 pet food recall by taking this action, I dont know. But it really is the attitude of these companies thats getting to me more and more these days.  That somehow they think they dont have to answer questions, that FDA doesnt have the right to check up on them, like they feel there is some special force-field between them and the real world and that they have been given some sort of special priveledges.  Pet food companies are not some superior being and the sooner they realize they are in business only because of people like us and our pets, the sooner they can quit with the excuses and attitudes.  Its getting real old watching the spin these companies put out when their product and their processes are brought into question, because of their own doing.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on May 23, 2008, 01:40:07 PM
Very sad it came to all that when Dr. Sandman freely shares his expertise.  I know it is tough advice for companies to follow, but I think it is good advice for the company image.

http://www.psandman.com/articles/holing.htm

It’s The Outrage, Stupid


Part of his strategy is to keep company leaders from confusing maximizing profits with maximizing self-esteem. “Too often my clients get locked into issues of control, ego and vindication.”
[/i]

I think that's spot on!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on May 23, 2008, 02:57:02 PM
lesliek, thanks for letting me share the same forum with someone of your courage and integrity.

It does seem like Evanger's has had an opportunity to mull things over. I really hope they're not
confused by consumers with higher safety standards than existing regulations demand.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on May 23, 2008, 03:36:22 PM
Thank you everyone. It's been my salvation to have found you all this year. At least this way the money will do some good. I just felt that returning it to them was pointless. They don't get it. I hope other pf co's monitoring here may have learned something from this fiasco.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catbird on May 23, 2008, 04:25:43 PM
No more Evanger's for me either!  I still have 3 cans of the pheasant cat food from that batch that my cats suddenly refused after enjoying other batches, in my "suspicious food" stash.  Just in case it's ever needed.

Good for you, Leslie!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: shibadiva on May 23, 2008, 06:36:40 PM
Dumping on the FDA (fwiw) and, more to the point, on consumers, makes this company look really rinky-dink.  The quality of their product may be wonderful, but it is irrelevant when one considers that doing business with them invites confrontation.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on May 24, 2008, 05:55:09 AM
Dumping on the FDA (fwiw) and, more to the point, on consumers, makes this company look really rinky-dink.  The quality of their product may be wonderful, but it is irrelevant when one considers that doing business with them invites confrontation.

Shibadiva, well said.  Whatever happened to good ol' fashioned morals.  The big bad PFC picking on the little consumer.  I too, am very proud of Leslie in standing up to this treatment and conveying her message on behalf of us and our pets and for herself too.   


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kb on June 06, 2008, 06:31:45 PM
Has anybody heard an update?  Still under FDA order?  There's no update at the FDA website.  And no mention of it at all at Evangers website.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 06, 2008, 07:12:32 PM
I'll try to get ahold of the FDA rep for NJ that I dealt with on the complaint,maybe he would know.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: martin on June 06, 2008, 07:22:24 PM
And where is Mr. Weaver?  Still on the honeymoon I guess.

Maybe they think this will just go away like the rest have.  :o


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 06, 2008, 07:28:59 PM
Joel Sher was on twice reading the test results post in the last 2 days.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on June 06, 2008, 07:35:04 PM
Joel Sher was on twice reading the test results post in the last 2 days.

Yes - I spotted him a few days ago... Lesleik, where are those test reults you are refering to?  Is that the FF test result?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 06, 2008, 07:37:42 PM
No, the Evangers dry dog pheasant & brown rice thread in test results.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kb on June 06, 2008, 07:51:31 PM
I'll try to get ahold of the FDA rep for NJ that I dealt with on the complaint,maybe he would know.
Thanks, that would be great!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kaffe on June 06, 2008, 08:07:01 PM
No, the Evangers dry dog pheasant & brown rice thread in test results.

Thanks, Lesleik!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 09, 2008, 12:58:17 PM
Tried the FDA,but aparently they closed early because of the heat wave. Will try again tomorrow.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 10, 2008, 05:32:19 PM
Had to leave a message,rep was away from his desk. Still waiting for a return call.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: LoveDogs on June 11, 2008, 12:57:16 PM
leslie k, are you surprised that the FDA was, "unavailable" as they have been throughout this entire ordeal?

:o  :o  :o


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: NedF on June 11, 2008, 01:27:06 PM
That was wise of you to edit your post LoveDogs.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on June 11, 2008, 01:33:21 PM
LoveDogs writes:

"Re: April 24, 08 Evanger's FDA Orders Food Maker to Obtain Emerg. Operating Permit
« Reply #341 on: Today at 01:57:16 PM »

leslie k, are you surprised that the FDA was, "unavailable" as they have been throughout this entire ordeal?

this entire thing is just absurd, and I don't mean the FDA investigation, i mean that everyone is sitting at their computers posting numerous times daily, the same thing over and over, without even bothering to learn the facts and just formulating what he/she claims to be fact.

reading these posts just makes me angry at the uninformed, not at the company.  seriously, this is ridiculous."


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMHO, you'll not find a another group anywhere that is more willing to consider different points of view.  But to simply criticize the opinions and facts of others is unfair.

One of the things we do here is "formulate".  However, if you don't like what is written, please post your own version of "the facts".  

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on June 11, 2008, 01:49:13 PM
LoveDogs writes:

"Re: April 24, 08 Evanger's FDA Orders Food Maker to Obtain Emerg. Operating Permit
« Reply #341 on: Today at 01:57:16 PM »

leslie k, are you surprised that the FDA was, "unavailable" as they have been throughout this entire ordeal?

this entire thing is just absurd, and I don't mean the FDA investigation, i mean that everyone is sitting at their computers posting numerous times daily, the same thing over and over, without even bothering to learn the facts and just formulating what he/she claims to be fact.

reading these posts just makes me angry at the uninformed, not at the company.  seriously, this is ridiculous."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMHO, you'll not find a another group anywhere that is more willing to consider different points of view.  But to simply criticize the opinions and facts of others is unfair.

One of the things we do here is "formulate".  However, if you don't like what is written, please post your own version of "the facts".  

5CatMom
=^..^=

FDA is available, all right--they were available for this:

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01825.html

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 24, 2008

FDA Orders Pet Food Maker to Obtain Emergency Operating Permit

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued an order requiring that Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc., in Wheeling, Ill., obtain an emergency permit from the FDA before its canned pet food products enter interstate commerce.

A recent inspection revealed significant deviations from prescribed documentation of processes, equipment, and recordkeeping in the production of the company's thermally processed low acid canned food (LACF) products. These problems could result in under-processed pet foods, which can allow the survival and growth of Clostridium botulinum (C. botulinum), a bacterium that causes botulism in some animals as well as in humans.


"As outlined in the Food Protection Plan, the FDA uses a risk-based approach to locate the areas of greatest risk for foods, and targets preventive controls and inspections to those areas, " said Dr. Stephen Sundlof, director, Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition. "The FDA's authority to issue an order requiring an emergency permit is an enforcement tool designed to prevent unsafe foods from reaching consumers.”

The FDA issues an "Order of Need for Emergency Permit” if the agency determines that a company fails to meet the regulatory requirements to process a product that does not present a health risk. For Evanger's to resume business, the company must document that corrective actions and processing procedures have been implemented to ensure that the finished product will not present a health hazard.

Botulism is a powerful toxin that affects the nervous system and can be fatal. The disease has been documented in dogs and cats. Signs of botulism in animals are progressive muscle paralysis, disturbed vision, difficulty in chewing and swallowing, and progressive weakness to the body. Death is usually due to paralysis of the heart or the muscles used in breathing.

In light of human botulism illnesses and recalls that occurred due to under-processed hot dog chili sauce, and potentially under-processed canned green beans, FDA has urged all LACF processors to review their operations and the apply scientific principles and regulations that have been established to provide a safe product.

While FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine has authority over animal feed and foods, CFSAN is responsible for regulating all human and animal LACF processing. The two centers are collaborating on this enforcement action.

And Love Dogs' entire posting history seems to be caught up in the Evanger's saga, even though he/she doesn't mention the company's name in this post:

The company does not use any by-products in their food, I've spoken with the owner a few times about this because I was concerned with all the foreign materials that we don't know about.  However, he assured me how committed the company was to not using poor parts of meat to make a better pet food.  They've been in business for 75 years, I'm not worried about this one.  According to the statement the company was in compliance with FDA regulations as well, so we shouldn't confuse the actual matter of the situation.

:)

Hi all, I just saw this statement on the Evanger's website.  In my opinion Evanger's was doing the right thing and following FDA regulations.  I know I am certainly going to continue to feed my dogs Evanger's because I have seen huge benefits in their coat and energy since I put them on the food.

April 25, 2008


To Our Valued Customers:

The US Food & Drug Administration conducted a routine inspection of Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc. during February & March of 2008. As a result of the inspection, the FDA raised questions regarding recordkeeping.   Neither Evanger’s nor FDA has received ANY customer complaints questioning the safety of Evanger’s products relating to this minor recordkeeping issue.

The FDA has not raised any questions as to the safety of any of Evanger’s products.

Although FDA has raised these questions, Evanger’s continues to make and distribute its products with FDA approval.  Evanger’s is working closely with expert process consultants, TechniCal Inc., which has already fully addressed many of FDA’s inquiries, and we expect to have all FDA concerns fully satisfied shortly.

Evanger’s is committed to providing high quality, safe, and nutritious all-natural and organic pet food, as it has done since 1935.

Respectfully,


Joel Sher
Vice President
Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc.


5CatMom, I'm curious, you said you mentioned you worked in "the biz"  what did you do?

"Having worked in "the biz" for many years, I'm familiar with FDA (and FAA) rules and regulations, inspections" as quoted by you.

I am just looking for what more credibility you have than the company who is actually manufacturing the product and working with the FDA, USDA, CRC, etc....

Can I claim that buck?  Sorry Martin, just a concerned pet owner.  Of course I saw red flags when I read the release, but I'm completely confident in the company because my dog has thrived off of their food.  We saw what happened with Menu Foods when the recall happened, they were getting ingredients from China!  If you read your dog food label, everything is completely sourced in the United States.  The company has been in business for a long time, and if there was a problem they would have been shut down a long time ago, so I will still strongly believe that this is a recordkeeping problem and there is nothing wrong with the food.

If all of this is so absurd, Love Dogs seems to join in from time to time--and always with the opinion that the FDA information is not factual.  We're seeing nothing factual from the company to disprove what FDA reported--merely their spin or slant on the occurrence.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on June 11, 2008, 04:13:17 PM
LoveDogs writes:

"Re: April 24, 08 Evanger's FDA Orders Food Maker to Obtain Emerg. Operating Permit
« Reply #341 on: Today at 01:57:16 PM »

leslie k, are you surprised that the FDA was, "unavailable" as they have been throughout this entire ordeal?

this entire thing is just absurd, and I don't mean the FDA investigation, i mean that everyone is sitting at their computers posting numerous times daily, the same thing over and over, without even bothering to learn the facts and just formulating what he/she claims to be fact.

reading these posts just makes me angry at the uninformed, not at the company.  seriously, this is ridiculous."

Wow 5catmom, thanks for saving the "real" post.  I do love this internet thingy and the things you can do with it!.......like research statements made by PFC's, contact FDA, and make people aware of the facts so they arent uninformed rather than just calling a PFC and taking their side of the story as the gospel...;D   LovesDogs sounds rather angry today.... LeslieK, I think you hit a nerve or sumpin.....


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 11, 2008, 05:00:21 PM
Thanks for saving it everyone ,I had errands to run & was also unavailable. Some of us have real lives,real families & real food to buy to feed the 4 legged family members. While I was running my errands the FDA rep called me back & apologized for not being available.  He states that the order will be removed from the FDA website when it is no longer being enforced. Also that the co is supposed to have it posted on their own site also. They are still allowed to make the food,but need approval to distribute it. I really do seem to have hit a nerve. JMHO,but apparently they are at a loss when their implied threats do not scare someone away. I was sitting here quietly trying to find out what made my dogs & friends dogs ill until they came after me. All of the results I have are paid for by me or by pfpsa.org. I have tried repeatedly to offer them my samples & they are not interested. Everything I or pfpsa has done is well documented,where are their facts ?If anyone still feels that they want to do business with co's that operate this way,that is your choice. I choose not to.Again JMO,but you might want to eat it yourself before feeding someone smaller who cannot tell you if there is a problem.







Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on June 11, 2008, 05:19:27 PM
LeslieK, Im sorry but I think you sound pretty informed  ;D  So the company is supposed to have the release on their website?  Hmmmm, I dont think we saw anything there.  Did the FDA rep say if they were going to contact them to request that it be put on their site?  Thanks for contacting them and getting the info and sharing it.  I like knowing how this process works even if certain others might think its ridiculous. ;)  It seems that the PFC's really want total control over everything and if they dont have it, they get pretty upset. They obviously dont like FDA or anyone else meddling in what they think is their private business.  I really hope that FDA can gain total recall authority and that the PFC's learn that they cant control everyone and everything.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on June 11, 2008, 05:31:11 PM
Thanks for saving it everyone ,I had errands to run & was also unavailable. Some of us have real lives,real families & real food to buy to feed the 4 legged family members. While I was running my errands the FDA rep called me back & apologized for not being available.  He states that the order will be removed from the FDA website when it is no longer being enforced. Also that the co is supposed to have it posted on their own site also. [/u]They are still allowed to make the food,but need approval to distribute it. I really do seem to have hit a nerve. JMHO,but apparently they are at a loss when their implied threats do not scare someone away. I was sitting here quietly trying to find out what made my dogs & friends dogs ill until they came after me. All of the results I have are paid for by me or by pfpsa.org. I have tried repeatedly to offer them my samples & they are not interested. Everything I or pfpsa has done is well documented,where are their facts ?If anyone still feels that they want to do business with co's that operate this way,that is your choice. I choose not to.Again JMO,but you might want to eat it yourself before feeding someone smaller who cannot tell you if there is a problem.

Well, this is still here:

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01825.html

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 24, 2008

FDA Orders Pet Food Maker to Obtain Emergency Operating Permit

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued an order requiring that Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc., in Wheeling, Ill., obtain an emergency permit from the FDA before its canned pet food products enter interstate commerce.

A recent inspection revealed significant deviations from prescribed documentation of processes, equipment, and recordkeeping in the production of the company's thermally processed low acid canned food (LACF) products. These problems could result in under-processed pet foods, which can allow the survival and growth of Clostridium botulinum (C. botulinum), a bacterium that causes botulism in some animals as well as in humans.

"As outlined in the Food Protection Plan, the FDA uses a risk-based approach to locate the areas of greatest risk for foods, and targets preventive controls and inspections to those areas, " said Dr. Stephen Sundlof, director, Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition. "The FDA's authority to issue an order requiring an emergency permit is an enforcement tool designed to prevent unsafe foods from reaching consumers.”

The FDA issues an "Order of Need for Emergency Permit” if the agency determines that a company fails to meet the regulatory requirements to process a product that does not present a health risk. For Evanger's to resume business, the company must document that corrective actions and processing procedures have been implemented to ensure that the finished product will not present a health hazard.

Botulism is a powerful toxin that affects the nervous system and can be fatal. The disease has been documented in dogs and cats. Signs of botulism in animals are progressive muscle paralysis, disturbed vision, difficulty in chewing and swallowing, and progressive weakness to the body. Death is usually due to paralysis of the heart or the muscles used in breathing.

In light of human botulism illnesses and recalls that occurred due to under-processed hot dog chili sauce, and potentially under-processed canned green beans, FDA has urged all LACF processors to review their operations and the apply scientific principles and regulations that have been established to provide a safe product.

While FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine has authority over animal feed and foods, CFSAN is responsible for regulating all human and animal LACF processing. The two centers are collaborating on this enforcement action.

But there's no mention of any Order to obtain an Emergency Permit over here:

http://www.evangersdogfood.com/

Even the link to this is gone:

:)

Hi all, I just saw this statement on the Evanger's website.  In my opinion Evanger's was doing the right thing and following FDA regulations.  I know I am certainly going to continue to feed my dogs Evanger's because I have seen huge benefits in their coat and energy since I put them on the food.

April 25, 2008


To Our Valued Customers:

The US Food & Drug Administration conducted a routine inspection of Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc. during February & March of 2008.  As a result of the inspection, the FDA raised questions regarding recordkeeping.  Neither Evanger’s nor FDA has received ANY customer complaints questioning the safety of Evanger’s products relating to this minor recordkeeping issue.

The FDA has not raised any questions as to the safety of any of Evanger’s products.

Although FDA has raised these questions, Evanger’s continues to make and distribute its products with FDA approval.  Evanger’s is working closely with expert process consultants, TechniCal Inc., which has already fully addressed many of FDA’s inquiries, and we expect to have all FDA concerns fully satisfied shortly.

Evanger’s is committed to providing high quality, safe, and nutritious all-natural and organic pet food, as it has done since 1935.

Respectfully,


Joel Sher
Vice President
Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 11, 2008, 05:58:25 PM
We need to thank the rep, he called me back & then called DC to check & called me back again. That makes 5 times I've spoken to him,so not so unavailable after all.He seemed a little disappointed that they are not a NJ co & he can't deal with it directly. In case anyone has forgotten ,in our 1st phone call he informed me that he went to homecooked & raw right after the recalls started & what is really in pf started to come out.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on June 11, 2008, 07:26:08 PM
Really have confused this company and all the other commercial pet food
companies who think they're only making pet food for AAFCO, haven't we?
Hopefully, those days are over for good. I am glad, Leslie, to know someone
at the FDA is listening at long last ...


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: PFR07PS on June 11, 2008, 07:44:35 PM

I have tried repeatedly to offer them my samples & they are not interested.


It is disturbing when a company that produces a food product is not interested in receiving a sample of a product in question, especially when it is a food product.  I've heard this story too many times.  I got a similar response from Natura with the chunks discovery.  They were uncertain if they wanted a sample submitted, they absolutely refused photographs of the subject chunks and the executive posted I would not send a sample, even though it had sat on a manager's desk for several weeks with no action taken. 

I agree with Leslie.  It has now come to the point where decisions of doing business with a company are not based only on a good product, but also on how that company deals with their consumers.  You would think they would have learned that after reading it on this forum.  But, as previously posted, if they wanted to, they would.
DonnaC


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on June 12, 2008, 04:00:22 AM
Leslie,

Thanks for the info from FDA.  Your rep sounds very responsible.  LOL, did you invite him to join us here?

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 12, 2008, 04:12:05 AM
I believe the names of this & a few other sites came up . ;)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on June 12, 2008, 04:57:28 AM
;D  ;D  ;D

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on June 12, 2008, 07:22:11 AM
Some new info....I e:mailed FDA yesterday inquiring whether anything has changed with the Emergency Permit Order for Evangers.  This was before Leslie received the reply from her FDA rep.  I got a very prompt and informative reply and this is it:

The firm is still operating under Order of Need for Emergency Permit.  FDA has permitted release of specific lots of product that our scientific experts evaluated and determined to be commercially sterile.  As far as I know, there have not been any updates to the initial release.
   

So seems like we've been able to get pretty prompt responses from FDA, them's the "facts" jack.  ;D


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 03, 2008, 06:40:42 PM
I just wanted to let everyone know that Evangers shipped me more food. Unordered & unasked for and unexplained. Fedex delivered it while no one was home. I opened it to see if there was any letter or explanation & there was not. Only the Evangers shipping label with the name Jennifer Schaade and my name & address. I did not feel safe donating the food because of how ill Remy was so I shiipped it back. It cost me another $55.45,which I didn't need to spend as Remy is having problems again. The vet fells he may be prone to UTIS and inflammation now,and He has never had a sick day in his life until this started. His only problems were eye injuries[he's a chihuahua].I checked with my attorney and the Fla lawsuit attorney and it had nothing to do with them,so I returned it certified mail with a letter. The letter asks them not to send me anything else or contact me unless it is for an apology and/or test results. Hopefully the next time I post here it will be to show test results.I will try to post the receipts for the mailing after I post this.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 03, 2008, 06:45:10 PM
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/26574882@N02/2634980414/)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 03, 2008, 06:47:38 PM
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/26574882@N02/2634980414/)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 03, 2008, 06:49:00 PM
I guess I need to change my signature,I'm pretty inept at postong photos also !


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on July 03, 2008, 06:55:07 PM
Ah, but clicking this as a link does the trick too!  ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26574882@N02/2634980414/

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3181/2634980414_b84cf0f95e.jpg?v=0)

Got it now for sure!  ;D


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on July 03, 2008, 07:02:11 PM
For the life of me, I cant imagine why they sent you food!  These guys dont appear to be the brightest bulbs on the tree.... 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: PFR07PS on July 03, 2008, 07:10:23 PM
So are they going to harass you with shipments until you give in and give up?




Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 03, 2008, 07:12:30 PM
Lets hope not ! I would go broke returning it all ! And it would look pretty silly to file a harrassment suit because someone won't stop giving me free food.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 04, 2008, 04:15:54 AM
Thanks menusux & klondike. I probably shouldn't have tried to post it while searching for Oreo. I guess my mind was on him & not what I was doing ![He's Home !]


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on July 04, 2008, 10:26:00 AM
Of all the ignorant, crass, and craven things to do, leslie, it's this company shipping you unsolicited food that we
all suspect because of the FDA's actions. Don't return it to them. Just place it with the rest of the trash.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 04, 2008, 11:44:58 AM
3cat- Thats actually a lot of work too. Last time I had to put it in gal size ziplocs & put out a little at a time. I was afraid it would harm scavengers at the dump. And I'm afraid to donate it. I guess I could dig a hole in the ground & burn it. I also didn't want them to say,how bad can it be she kept it. This way I have a signed receipt proving I sent it back. For all I know they sent it because I donated the refund,but I wasn't willing to take a chance with a petfood or petfood company. You never know with them,as we have all learned the hard way.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: PFR07PS on July 05, 2008, 05:59:27 AM
Leslie,

Here’s some thoughts regarding the dog food that Evanger’s continues to send to you. 

You might contact the Better Business Bureau to file a complaint.

I would also consider filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, www.ftc.gov.  You actually have two areas to base the complaint on. 

1.  The fact the company continues to ship product to you even though you have requested them to stop, you have not ordered/requested the product and you do not want their products.  I would think this has some relevance to interstate commerce. 

2. You can also reference truth in advertising.  Your dog was sickened while eating this product.  You also have private test results.  You obviously would not want to continue feeding the product whether free or not. 

Truth in advertising requires a company be truthful, non-deceptive and have evidence to back up their claims.  If a product makes a claim to health or safety, it has to be supported by “competent and reliable scientific evidence” which means tests or studies evaluated by people qualified to review it. 

Reference the claims made by Evangers – these are a few from their website, you may have others (on product packaging, print ads, etc.) 


Quote

TREAT YOUR DOG TO NOTHING BUT NATURAL...THE HEALTHY, EVANGER'S WAY!

Complete dog dinners, naturally the best

All over the world, GOLD is the symbol of purity and value and it is no different at Evanger's.

Consistent top quality products and excellent Customer Service are just two of our strong points. Being a small manufacturing company enables us to work closely with our accounts to insure their satisfaction.

Pheasant & Brown Rice Dry Dog Food -  Made with Evanger's same superior, high quality nutrition



The FTC handles most matters regarding food advertising and the FDA handles most matters regarding food labeling. 

The Federal Trade Commission has an on-line form for consumer complaints.


You might also want to contact FedEx.  You have not ordered or requested the product, have asked the company to stop shipping to you and, more importantly, you do not want the product.  Ask FedEx if they have any policies that protect a consumer from receiving unsolicited/unwanted shipments and specifically what you should do the next time a package is left at your door.  I know that UPS has a policy for returning unwanted shipments by simply calling the carrier to "return to sender."  FedEx has not responded to my inquiries. 

I agree with your thoughts on receiving the product.  If you trash it, it still gives the appearance you "received and kept" their complimentary gift to you.  I would return it, but I would also pressure the shipper to return it at Evanger's cost. 
DonnaC


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on July 05, 2008, 06:42:14 AM
These are good ideas Donna.  I wonder if either of these sources received enough complaints if they would do something?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: PFR07PS on July 05, 2008, 07:03:58 AM
I would think there is a better chance of FTC involvement than BBB.  There is criteria that has to be met in order for FTC to take action.  However, this provides another avenue for pet owners to pursue.  It also gets the information filed with another Federal agency. The FTC has a secure online database for entry of consumer complaints.  IMO, the truth in advertising aspect is one that deserves consideration.  What claims are made in advertising about a specific product?    Obviously, they will not address individual consumer complaints, but like with Nutro, the more complaints filed, the more likely to catch their attention. 

-----

Also, look at how a PF company advertises their products; what words do they use to describe the product; how do they entice you to purchase?  Recently a member posted how they watched a PF company change their descriptions from “human grade to holistic to high quality” over the last year.  There's a reason for that change.  All one has to do is look at a company's print ads, TV ads, in-store advertising, package labeling, websites, etc.  It's a matter of holding them accountable for what they advertise.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 05, 2008, 07:13:25 AM
Donna- Those are good ideas,thank you ! I will try to catch the local fedex delivery person also & tell him. We always have the same 1 here.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on July 05, 2008, 03:44:38 PM
Good ideas, on FTC. I might also suggest a certified letter requesting Evanger's send you
no further free food of any kind at any time because based on your consumer experience
with the product and test results from an independent laboratory, you do not wish to use
the product, and furnish a copy to Fed Ex, FTC, BBB, or any other interested party. That way
you give a drop-dead date to Evanger's, after which hopefully it becomes their loss on the returns.

One has to presume the FDA emergency operating permit action has caused a perceptible loss of business,
as it has with other food products. You'd think clearing that would be the company's first concern, especially
as bacterial contamination is so prominant in the food news lately. Then
perhaps treating customer issues more carefully would improve their business also.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 05, 2008, 06:12:52 PM
3 cat good idea to send the letter again certified & copies to all who might be apropriate. I need to contact the FDA rep again also to update him about it.I'm sure they know I won't use any pf at all let alone theirs, so who knows what their motivation was ! Maybe thats their idea of an apology for the accusations or the problems I've had with the dogs health. The only thing I want is an answer to what made them sick & why 2 of mine have residual urinary problems & my neighbors has stomach problems. They were all fine before. I think anyone who reads here or any where else I have posted knows my opinion of pf & pf co's, free food will not make me feel any safer about it. I still have 2 -32 gallon trash cans full of pf thats still not expired. I only get rid of it when it goes out of date. You never know if someone will need it for testing. Hopefully I will get test results from them & then never hear from them again.I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen though.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JJ on July 05, 2008, 09:56:44 PM
leslie when you see your Fedex delivery guy can't you ask him how to have a request on file that a signature is required before leaving any package or envelope at your home? That way like UPS they would try to deliver it again and once you saw it was from Evangers you could refuse it and it would be returned to them at their expense? Why should you have to pay to return something you never requested or wanted in the first place?

Maybe they are sending you free food as an appeasement of some sort. Like if we send her food then we can say we compensated her for any of her troubles? Stinks to me if thats what they are doing in sending you this food.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 06, 2008, 05:30:34 AM
Good idea JJ, I'll ask him about that.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: PFR07PS on July 06, 2008, 06:17:15 AM

The only thing I want is an answer to what made them sick & why 2 of mine have residual urinary problems & my neighbors has stomach problems. They were all fine before.  



I agree, along with many, many others --  we want to know what made them sick and what is causing the continued problems and what does the future hold.  I've heard this from so many people.

Donna C


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on July 06, 2008, 06:24:58 AM
Answers to these questions are also very important in knowing how to treat them.   


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 06, 2008, 10:16:01 AM
Thats what I'm running into now,there are just too many things that can cause these problems. Without knowing what caused it in the first place ,treating it is almost impossible ! The new vet thinks something in the food caused severe inflammation in the kidneys & liver or even stones or crystals. They are gone now but he's afraid there will be residual UTI's & problems forever. I don't have enough money to run every medical test there is trying to find the answer & wouldn't put them through all that upset if I did.  Any pet food companies reading this; step up with some answers & proof that your food is now safe ! You will earn eternal gratitude & recommendations for it. Even home cookers & raw feeders need a good ,safe emergency backup.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on July 06, 2008, 01:07:18 PM
As long as AAFCO/FDA is the regulator and the ingredient definitions are not completely reexamined and revised,
eliminating most of the allowed chemicals and rendered components and other products of the fake meat making
extrusion arts the commercial pet food companies are so proud of, and as long as nutritionally complete and balanced
is based on studies lacking scientific veterinary validation and feeding trials of only six months (at most) or
family-equivalence paperwork, is there such a thing as safe commercial pet food?
You can't even get AAFCO/FDA to ban SRMs such as BSE prions from inclusion in pet food. Shouldn't the public,
particularly cat owners, see that warning on every label?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: yl on July 06, 2008, 03:49:58 PM
Wouldn't we all just like the truth from the pet food companys? What are the long term effects from the variety of ingredients that made our  pets ill?

Lesliek It sounds like you are being harressed. Maybe you could have the sender arrested? HaHa!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 06, 2008, 05:02:46 PM
Don't I wish !


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: PFR07PS on July 06, 2008, 06:17:11 PM

 I still have 2 -32 gallon trash cans full of pf thats still not expired. I only get rid of it when it goes out of date. You never know if someone will need it for testing.


I've been thinking about this one.  If a toxin in present in the kibble, then wouldn't a toxin still be present in kibble that may have past its expiration date? 

I'd hold on to some of it, even if expired.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 06, 2008, 06:34:56 PM
What I worried about is if its a mold based toxin, it could appear after it goes out of date. I don't have an empty freezer to use just for old pf. Wish I did. I do have some of the Purina frozen & will freeze some of the Evangers before it goes out. But the others are all things I hardly used any of, or that my neighbors hardly used any of & I am not aware of anyone needing them at this time. Those I toss [in small ziplocs a few at a time every week] when they expire. Unfortunately none of them but 1 bag of Evangers are unopened.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on July 06, 2008, 06:58:21 PM
Leslie, Im sorry if Im not remembering correctly, but didnt you still want to get some sort of test run on that food, I cant remember what kind though? 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 06, 2008, 07:33:30 PM
Yes , I think the heavy metals & maybe unknown toxins. Still trying to figure out what else. Its like a jigsaw puzzle trying to guess what to test for. We know it has too much copper,but that is usually only a problem by itself for certain breeds[none of the dogs affected are those breeds]. In the presence of an excess of certain other metals its effects can be worse. There are just too many things that can cause the symptoms the dogs had & have. Also too many possible problems with different ingredients in the food. I don't know how Don deals with it, its almost impossible to figure out. What we need is unlimited funds & testing ability. If we could test large amounts of food for every problem & to be sure it contains the right amounts of things we might get somewhere. Until then its hit or miss on finding the problems. Very frustrating ! Its ridiculous that we as consumers have to do this,the pf co's and gov't agencies should be doing it ! Last week I went to the meat market & bought 65 lbs of meat & organs. Then 15 lbs of clams & 4 lbs of wild caught Alaskan salmon. Along with 20 lbs of organic,local chicken. It was a lot easier when I could just buy a few cans & bags. That won't be happening again in my lifetime though. Or my dogs or cats lifetimes. Tomorrow I am heading to the health food store for manuka honey and Bluebonnet dairy free acidophilus. Then I need to order Lewis labs lethicin and brewers yeast. Also a stop at the local organic farm for eggs. But I have to say that even with the residual problems from last yrs food & a lifetime of crappy commercial food, my dogs and cats are looking and doing better than ever. Trooper at 10 1/2 is more energetic than in the last 3 yrs. Punkin at 17 looks and acts like he's 5. No more chronic skin and ear problems. No more vomitting,diarrhea and hairballs. Its worth the time,cost and effort. When you break it down by lb its even cheaper.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JJ on July 06, 2008, 09:31:50 PM
leslie agree that we should not have to do all the testing and pay for it also. But thank goodness there are people who did test and still test. In turn they pass the information on so we are more informed and aware.

Pet food should never have gotten to the point it is now-not knowing if it is damaging to your pet should you chose to feed it. 3cat brought up good points also and until this is accomplished we all have to stay together to help each other and put the word out when our pets have reactions to the foods so others with same reactions in their pets can then question if it is the food.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on July 07, 2008, 01:00:53 PM
Join Netflix and skip the movies; donate to pfsa.org as often as you can and whatever you can.
Safe and healthful, and commercial pet food have nothing whatsoever to do with each other in
2008 in my opinion because nobody is testing at adequate levels and no one has researched what
is nutritionally required adequately. Just food for thought. Consumer experience warnings are all
we've got to help the furkids with.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 07, 2008, 01:47:29 PM
Another good way to donate is the $ you would have spent eating out or getting takeout. I don't
 feel safe eating that way anymore & it will hopefully get us some answers.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: yl on July 07, 2008, 04:04:31 PM
Lesliek Have you thought about using your states dept of Ag & Mkts. for testing? Also ewg.org is testing perhaps they would test your food for nothing and  it sounds like they are able to test for more potential problems at one time.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 07, 2008, 04:33:05 PM
My state can't test food,I already tried that with the Purina. In fact we are lucky to even have an Ag dept. The gov wants to get rid of it to save money.I live in the so called garden state-NJ. I will try EWG though.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on July 07, 2008, 06:21:34 PM
Leslie, I had contacted EWG about testing the food I had and their response was they wont accept food for testing from individuals...... :-\


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 07, 2008, 06:28:26 PM
Thanks Sandi, 1 less letter to write.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on July 07, 2008, 06:29:56 PM
I had written back to them asking why but got no response.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: YesBiscuit! on July 15, 2008, 04:11:34 AM
Does anyone know the current info on Evanger's regarding the special permit?  Have the issues been resolved?  I checked their website and couldn't find anything except a calendar contest promo - tuh!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 15, 2008, 05:53:36 AM
According to the FDA it will be removed from their website when its no longer being enforced.Just looked & its still there. http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01825.html.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on July 15, 2008, 06:07:55 AM
YesBiscuit!, I remember they had taken any info off their site pertaining to this FDA action very early on while it was still new news, I remember people saying they shouldnt be allowed to do that and I still wonder why they are being allowed to not have to inform the public of their situation.  Guess they didnt want people knowing the whole scoop on their company. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: YesBiscuit! on July 15, 2008, 06:10:47 AM
Thank you.  To my mind, I would feel much more forgiving if Evanger's said, "FDA pointed out areas we need to improve upon, here are the changes we've made, etc."  But to go around to the pet blogs like they did, denying there was any problem and replacing the notice on their website with a calendar contest is not too impressive. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on July 15, 2008, 06:26:10 AM
Well YesBiscuit, they needed to correct all of "those" people on the blogs and internet thingy.  Afterall, you know we are all just full of hearsay.....(sorry for the early morning snark)   ;D



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 15, 2008, 06:33:18 AM
Yesbiscuit- You can't mean you think its more important to make a safe food in a safe manner ? That might not leave any time for blogging,making accusations against customers and running contests.[sorry-I'm a little snarky today too !]


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: YesBiscuit! on July 15, 2008, 06:37:58 AM
O yeah - I forgot you're the extortionist!  haha, I can just picture you in your fatcat limo, flicking cigar ashes out the back window while you cackle all evil-like in Evanger's general direction.   ::)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on July 15, 2008, 06:45:17 AM
Yes thats me alright ! Guess its a good thing its not my day job,I'm not very good at it ! I think you are actually supposed to end up with more $ than you started with, but it hasn't worked that way here. Thats ok though, I figure the expense was worth it to see them reveal publicly what they think of their customers and the health of our pets.[not including the health problems in the acceptable part though !]


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kb on August 06, 2008, 12:37:08 AM
Stumbled across this link at http://www.dogfoodproject.com/ to their forums at  http://www.ourdogsonline.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/188855/Evangers_Botulism#Post188855
Morphs from a possible problem with canned Evangers to canned Canidae made by Evangers.

Quote:
I just found out from my friend who works as a veterinary technician that 2 dogs came into her office near death after eating Evanger’s canned dog food. It was touch and go for awhile, but they’re going to be OK. They are awaiting test results from samples sent to the lab but it looks like the food was contaminated by botulism. I researched Evangers online and they have been under question by the FDA since April. So, please be careful and if you have this food at home, throw it away!

Wanted to follow-up on the Canidae C&R cans. I opened one of the cans and the smell was so bad that I immediately threw it out. I opened another can and the same awful smell. Obviously I threw away the cans. I called Canidae and they said their canned food was still being made a Evangers. There is also a post on the GSD board regarding Canidae C&R cans with a terrible smell. The poster called Canidae as did I however all Canidae would say is they they would send coupons.
However, no more Canidae for me, ever.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JJ on August 06, 2008, 06:13:18 AM
This is such a big change from when I had contacted Evangers last year regarding how they processed the canned food. The girl I spoke with said that the cans are sterilized at 280 degrees for 20 min. And now the food has botulism in it? So glad my dog refused 3 different varieties of canned earlier this year and I took the rest back to the store. Never liked the way canidae looked when I had bought a lil for my previous dog so if its also made by Evangers wonder about safety of that food now too for those that use it.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catbird on August 06, 2008, 06:14:30 AM
Evangers cans for Artemis, too.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on August 06, 2008, 06:21:57 AM
Here we go again !  Have to wonder what the new spin will be. Kind of hard to believe people kept using foods made by them when the FDA order & their response to it were all over the internet. Hopefully more people will see this & be cautious.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on August 06, 2008, 07:19:20 AM
Emergency operating permit notice still there, August 6, 2008. Apparently not
working in terms of preventing botulism in LAC canning based on the post on
the previous page. I wonder if a contact could be made to report a complaint
to the FDA? The FDA state by state field office report numbers are there, too.

http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/pet-food-problems-fda-emergency-report-number-november-2007-t2629.0.html


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JJ on August 06, 2008, 07:27:21 AM
lesliek it was about two months before the FDA issue with Evangers surfaced that my dog had refused to eat the food so I took my cue from her and stopped buying it. Our pets are like the canaries in the coal mine - when something happens to them or they refuse to touch a food, treat, etc then we should remove it immediately and stop feeding/using/giving any to the pet and research to find something else.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: kb on August 06, 2008, 04:38:50 PM
Emergency operating permit notice still there, August 6, 2008. Apparently not
working in terms of preventing botulism in LAC canning based on the post on
the previous page. I wonder if a contact could be made to report a complaint
to the FDA? The FDA state by state field office report numbers are there, too.

http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/pet-food-problems-fda-emergency-report-number-november-2007-t2629.0.html
3cat, I'm not a member there, just stumbled across it.  But I'll think about posting your suggestion to contact the FDA.  I called Weruva recently about some of their canned in the US food.  She "couldn't" tell me where it was canned but would tell me it wasn't at Evangers, he he.   
And I still don't see anything on the Evanger's site about the emergency permit.  I'd feel better about them if they would at least leave it posted. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on August 06, 2008, 06:36:36 PM
kb, you can only hope if enough consumers made FDA complaints, the FDA might
do tests and inspections. The companies record on foods submitted to the companies
by consumers for testing seems to be conceal the results. Also a way of getting testable food
out of the consumer's hands. I think the manufacturers may be more afraid of the
FDA than of consumers. So thanks for posting FDA complaint suggestion anywhere
it seems appropriate.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on August 06, 2008, 06:42:19 PM
The FDA may be more receptive to complaints right now beccause of the emergency order too.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Sandi K on December 23, 2008, 11:38:39 AM
I missed this and dont know if it was posted somewhere else or not....I was reading eFoodAlert and found a blog she had written concerning an Evangers update...

http://efoodalert.blogspot.com/2008/12/evangers-update.html 

Of course there was a statement from Evangers and Phyllis Entis also contacted FDA to confirm, this is what they said:   When contacted by eFoodAlert, Laura Alvey, Deputy Director of Communications Staff for FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine, confirmed that Evanger's "... is now operating in full compliance with applicable FDA regulations."


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: petslave on December 23, 2008, 11:41:17 AM
That's good to know SandiK, thanks.  I was wondering what was happening this this issue. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: jada on December 23, 2008, 12:56:10 PM
How does everyone here feel about feeding Evangers now?

Do you feel more comfortable feeding Wellness canned or Evanger's?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catbird on December 23, 2008, 01:01:00 PM
I guess I'd want to know exactly when the problem was confirmed as fixed, and if I ever decided to buy Evanger's again, I'd make sure the cans were manufactured after that date!  (Mine started refusing the only flavor of it they would eat, the pheasant, shortly before this problem came out, and plus that's the one one member found with too much copper, so I don't plan to buy any Evanger's any time soon.)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: jada on December 23, 2008, 01:22:10 PM
Oh geez - didn't know about the copper....that's definately NOT good.

thank you.....


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on December 23, 2008, 07:02:43 PM
jada- I tend to be a little biased against this company,but if you have kept track at all of my Remy's problems they started with his eating the Evangers with too much copper last year. I personally would never feed anything this company makes ever again & returned at my own cost of $56 the free food they sent me. I didn't feel safe donating it to a shelter.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: petslave on December 23, 2008, 07:06:47 PM
lesliek, I forgot what you were feeding Remy - was it the dry or canned Evangers?  Wasn't it the pheasant forumla?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on December 23, 2008, 07:48:28 PM
It was the dry pheasant & brown rice rice ALS dog. The other poster who had high copper test results was for canned cat food by them.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JJ on December 23, 2008, 08:32:15 PM
About three weeks before the story came out about the FDA and Evangers my dog refused to eat three different types of the canned and up to that point had been eating it with no problems. After opening the 3rd can and she didn't want that either I then opened a different brand of food and she ate that without hesitation. So took back what I had left and have not bought the food since. My dog sensed there was something not right about it for some reason and she is my canary - if she decides its a no go then it goes back to the store without a second thought no matter what brand it is. And that is not the only one she refused to eat that had eaten and then it was no go.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Honey on April 25, 2009, 04:16:39 AM
I am pretty new to this forum. And I have been looking for new canned cat foods to add into my cats rotation. I searched the internet and came up with Evangers Turkey and Butternut Squash and By Nature 95% meat and organics. I really liked the ingredients in both becasue NO grains, fillers, veggies, fruits (except for the butternut squash). I came across a few groups that said Evangers was a great product. So, I went ahead and bought a case of the Turkey & Butternut Squash. I ordered online and should receive this week.

Fast forward to today.....I came across the FDA orders and the post  in this forum. How is everyone feeling about Evangers company and product today. And how do you feel about the By Nature products as well? I am kind of scared that I may have made the wrong decision for my cat....although she will not get it everyday it will bein her rotation....


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Spartycats on April 25, 2009, 05:48:56 AM
Honey,
I don't have any experience with Evanger's.  I just wanted to say, WELCOME! 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on April 25, 2009, 05:56:11 AM
Honey,

Welcome to the forums  ;D.  Rotating foods is a good idea.

In the Evanger's example, what goes through my mind is:  How can a company which is operating according to basic good business practices have such an issue?

If employees are properly trained and supervised, and if proper QA/QC procedures are in place so that manufacturing errors are detected before the finished products are shipped to customers, such mistakes would not occur.

The fact that easily preventable problems do occur makes me question what else goes on with PF companies - things we never hear about, but that may have serious and long term consequences for our pets.

You might call the company.  I've spoken with Holly on the phone, and she was very nice.  

At one time, Evanger's had a good reputation.  For the sake of customers who would like to use their food, I hope they got their act together.

5CatMom
=^..^=


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on April 25, 2009, 06:09:50 AM
Welcome Honey ! I agree with 5catmom & have my own reasons for avoiding this company as well as almost all commercial petfood. If you have read this thread you know why. The few commercial treats mine do get are only occasional & never the same 2 days in a row. I believe there are a few people on here still using these foods,hopefully they will respond.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: bug on April 25, 2009, 08:27:13 AM
Hi Honey! Nice to have you join us.

I stopped using Evangers because of the menadione. Many other PFCs stopped including this unneccesary synthetic version of Vitamin K, but it's still on Evanger's nutrient label. They could save themselves some coin and just leave it out or replace it with a natural source.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Honey on April 25, 2009, 08:41:02 AM
Hi Everyone and thank you for the warm welcome! I am glad to see so many people concerned about what they feed their pets  :)

Now I am a little confused....I saw the previous posts in 2007 about the "Menadione" used in Evangers products but the following label for the Turkey and Butternut Squash (the only one I am going to purchase) does not have this ingredient included???

Ingredients List:
Organic Turkey, Organic Turkey Broth, Organic Turkey Liver, Organic Butternut Squash, diCalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Organic Guar Gum, Taurine, Vitamin a Acetate, Vitamin D2 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamin Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Proteinate, Calcium Iodate and Sodium Selenite.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: bug on April 25, 2009, 12:24:08 PM
Well, that's good. They removed it. My corner store must have an old supply of the cans. Thanks for the update -- I might try it again so long as I can get a new batch.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: petslave on April 25, 2009, 12:49:50 PM
Welcome to itchmo!  I think there was some discussion here about them removing the menadione.  You might try to do a search from the Home page for info on that.  You can email them to get the final word on that.

I bought a few cans of the turkey/butternut last week and it looked OK, but did have some small pieces of bone that I picked out. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JJ on April 25, 2009, 06:25:03 PM
Last week bought a few cans of the Beef and Liver, and plain cooked chicken to see if Foxy Lady would like it. Well today opened up the Beef and Liver - smelled the bowl, walked away, came back and same thing. Figured she was never fond of liver taste or liver itself so opened the chicken. That also was refused. Waited 1/2 hr and opened current food that I have been using and that was gone in a mere matter of seconds.

So apparently in Dec. '08 when she refused to eat it then nothing has changed in the food - still same and my dog still doesn't want it. Remaining food will be returned to store.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: bug on April 26, 2009, 07:15:26 AM
Honey,

I tried to PM a reply to you but your inbox is full. More info on Evangers and where to buy for you.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Honey on April 26, 2009, 07:28:00 AM
Why is it full?  I only have one message in there?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catbird on April 26, 2009, 07:34:35 AM
Until you have made five posts, you can have only one message in your inbox.  It is the way the board is set up by the administrator (Ben), as part of the spammer deterrents.  If you delete the message that is there, or make a few more posts, you should be able to receive messages.  (Sorry-it's not something the moderators can change.)

If you want to save the message that is there, you might try copying it into a text file on your own computer before deleting it from the mailbox.  HTH.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Honey on April 26, 2009, 07:37:34 AM
Thanks for the info.....one more post and I am unmoderated  :D :D


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catbird on April 26, 2009, 07:39:24 AM
Honey, your avatar cat is beautiful!  She looks like a tortie.  (off topic, but hey, it gives you a chance to make another post.  :D  )


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Honey on April 26, 2009, 07:47:05 AM
Thanks Catbird!!! That's my 12 year old DLH male cat. He is on an all raw diet. My 9 year old DLH female cat will be getting the Evangers in her rotation if it goes over well. I find that since she was on a raw diet (you have to feed much more variety)  she is not picky at all with what canned I feed her in her rotation. So, it will be interesting to see how Evangers Turkey & Butternut Squash goes over with her. I will post with the results in the next week or so (once it arrives)....


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: bug on April 26, 2009, 08:46:38 AM
Yay! Message got through. Thanks for that info, Catbird -- I didn't know that either. Good to keep in mind in case more new members try to PM.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Honey on April 27, 2009, 09:37:50 AM
My cans of Evangers showed up at work this morning - so I came home at lunch to give Lexus some of it. Not very promising....she took a few licks and walked away. I tried to give it to her a few times more after that and she wouldn't budge. This is coming from a cat that has eaten EVERY single new brand of canned cat food and raw I have put in front of her in the last month or two. I'll try again after work.... >:( >:(


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on April 27, 2009, 09:49:30 AM
Honey, I don't know anything about this brand and have never used it, but given
some of their problems, maybe if your cat does not want to eat it, some posters
here have adopted a policy of not insisting that the food be eaten just out of an
abundance of caution. Just a thought for you to consider.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Honey on April 27, 2009, 10:04:11 AM
It's funny because my raw fed cat liked it  :D

I won't force her to eat it - I will keep on trying to see if it was just a one time thing. Cats can be fussy one moment and not the next  :D It just really surprised me....


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 5CatMom on April 27, 2009, 10:13:53 AM
Honey,

We once used the Pheasant (complete diet), and the gang liked it.  It smelled good and looked like real meat.

Then the food changed.  It no longer had the good meaty smell, and the texture was very different - it was very finely ground, and smelled "grainey".

The gang wouldn't touch it, and they scratched the floor trying to cover it up. 

Too much was being wasted, so we stopped buying it.

5CatMom


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Honey on April 27, 2009, 02:06:49 PM
Well....I tried the Evangers after work and once again it is a no go! One thing I found is that it is not as smelly as the other foods I feed her (Wellness grainfree/Core, EVO 95%, etc.). I am thinking that maybe the squash is too apparent for her taste??? I will try another can in a day or so and if still a no go then I will chalk it up to experience. I did find those little white things mixed in with the food but I have found those in many other brands of canned foods over the years. They don't make me flinch anymore....


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JJ on April 28, 2009, 10:20:06 AM
Taking remaining two cans of dog food back to store tonight. Wasted gas, money and time since my dog refused (after eating it with no problems before Dec. 2008) and now just would not touch it and that was trying 3 different types. She knows there is something not right about this food. My canary in the coal mine comes thru again. If its refused it goes back to the store and rest in the trash. Not going to take a chance with my dog. No way, no how.

And the other food I have been feeding since december was eaten after the refusal of the Evangers just this past weekend.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on June 12, 2009, 02:13:00 PM
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm166265.htm


-
FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker

June 12, 2009

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration announced today it was suspending the temporary Emergency Permit issued to Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc.

Evanger's, operating in Wheeling, Illinois, deviated from the prescribed process, equipment, product shipment, and recordkeeping requirements in the production of the company's thermally processed low acid canned food (LACF) products.  The deviations in their processes and documentation could result in under-processed pet foods, which can allow the survival and growth of Clostridium botulinum (C. botulinum), a bacterium that causes botulism in some animals as well as in humans.

In April 2008, Evanger’s was issued an “Order of Need for Emergency Permit” after the agency determined that the company had failed to meet the regulatory requirements to process a product that does not present a health risk.   In June, 2008, FDA issued Evanger’s a temporary Emergency Permit.  During inspections conducted between March 2009 and April 2009, FDA determined Evanger’s was not operating in compliance with the mandatory requirements and conditions of the Temporary Emergency Permit.

“The FDA is stopping Evanger's ability to ship pet food in interstate commerce,” said Dr. Bernadette Dunham. “Today’s enforcement action sends a strong message to manufacturers of pet food that we will take whatever action necessary to keep unsafe products from reaching consumers.”

In order for Evanger's to resume shipping in interstate commerce, the company must document that corrective actions and processing procedures have been implemented to ensure that the finished product will not present a health hazard.

Botulism is a powerful toxin that affects the nervous system and can be fatal. The disease has been documented in dogs and cats. Signs of botulism in animals are progressive muscle paralysis, disturbed vision, difficulty in chewing and swallowing, and progressive weakness to the body. Death is usually due to paralysis of the heart or the muscles used in breathing.

While FDA’s Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition is responsible for regulating all human and animal LACF processing, FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine has authority over animal feed and foods.  The two centers are collaborating on this enforcement action.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JustMe on June 12, 2009, 02:22:26 PM
What current foods do we know Evanger's makes? Not sure if this list is still accurate.

From the Pet Food List

http://www.thepetfoodlist.com/manufacturers.htm

EVANGERS
Manufactures canned foods

Evangers Dog and Cat Food Company, Inc.
221 Wheeling Road
Wheeling, IL
847-537-0102

Foods manufactured:
Artemis - Holistic Pet Food
Blackwood Pet Food
Canidae
Life4K9


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Honey on June 12, 2009, 02:31:57 PM
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration announced today it was suspending the temporary Emergency Permit issued to Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc.

Read full article at this link:
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm166265.htm


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on June 12, 2009, 03:06:43 PM

Have not confirmed the listing, but this site had one Jan 2009:

Quote

http://www.mastiffonlinecommunity.net/viewtopic.php?printertopic=1&t=9229&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&vote=viewresult

Evangers

Artemis Pet foods, North Hollywood CA – Artemis Fresh Mix formulas. Made by Evanger’s Dog and Cat Food Company, Wheeling IL. www.artemiscompany.com

Beowulf Natural Feeds, Syracuse NY – Back to Basics Perfection. Made by Evanger’s Dog and Cat Food Company, Wheeling IL. www.beowulfs.com

By Nature (division of Blue Seal Feeds), Londonderry NH – By Nature Organics. Made by Evanger’s Dog and Cat Food Company, Wheeling IL. www.bynaturepetfoods.com

Canidae Corp., San Luis Obispo CA – Canidae All Life Stages, Canidae Platinum. Made by Evanger’s Dog and Cat Food Company, Wheeling IL and Simmons Pet Foods, Siloam Springs AK. www.canidae.com

Evanger’s Dog and Cat Food Co, Wheeling IL – Evanger’s Complete Classic Dinners, Game Meats, Hand Packed Specialties, Super Premium Gold Dinners and 100% Meat Classic. Made by Evanger’s Dog and Cat Food Company, Wheeling IL. www.evangersdogfood.com

Life4K9 Pet Food Corp, Dawsonville GA – Life4K9 formulas. Made by Evanger’s Dog and Cat Food Company, Wheeling IL. www.life4k9.com

Weruva International Inc, Natick MA – Weruva Kobe and Kurobuta formulas only. Made by Evanger’s Dog and Cat Food Company, Wheeling IL. www.weruva.com



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JustMe on June 12, 2009, 03:20:51 PM
Thanks, BP

I've got 2 cases of Kobe and Kurobuta dog food.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Honey on June 12, 2009, 03:21:09 PM
According to this thread reply this week - By Nature is no longer canned by Evangers.

http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/by-nature-organics-problem-t4064.75.html


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on June 12, 2009, 03:23:59 PM
http://efoodalert.blogspot.com/2009/06/breaking-news-fda-suspends-evangers.html

interesting comments about Holly Sher


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Steve on June 12, 2009, 03:26:12 PM
We also need brand new state of the art pet food facilities. Apparently most of them here in the USA are kept running with duct tape anymore. No surprise stuff like this happens in "used factories" probably long past their useful life that should have been razed decades ago and replaced.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on June 12, 2009, 03:33:22 PM
http://efoodalert.blogspot.com/2009/06/breaking-news-fda-suspends-evangers.html

interesting comments about Holly Sher

"disingenuous" has become my most favored word now ROFL  :-X


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on June 12, 2009, 03:36:23 PM
According to this thread reply this week - By Nature is no longer canned by Evangers.

http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/by-nature-organics-problem-t4064.75.html

How can people know if the product they have in stock was canned/not canned at Evanger's?

Per Bug

Quote
http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/by-nature-organics-problem-t4064.0.html;msg125640#msg125640

The cans we have are Evangers. They have that weird code sequence on the bottom that all Evangers cans have. We'll be able to tell the switch by the product stamp even if they use the same cans -- but they might even have changed their cans if they've gone to Menu and Performance.



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Steve on June 12, 2009, 03:38:01 PM
According to this thread reply this week - By Nature is no longer canned by Evangers.

http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/by-nature-organics-problem-t4064.75.html

How can people know if the product they have in stock was canned/not canned at Evanger's?

I don't know. I suppose we can form a circle and try to summon Rod Serling maybe he has an answer.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JustMe on June 12, 2009, 03:43:32 PM
Unfortunately, due to the secrecy of some of these companies, the only way we ever know for sure is when there is a recall and the cwap hits the fan.   >:(   >:(  >:(


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Steve on June 12, 2009, 03:50:30 PM
I'm really getting ______ (your choice) of the constant run around by this industry.

Doesn't get anymore soulless and heartless then this.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catbird on June 12, 2009, 04:10:34 PM


How can people know if the product they have in stock was canned/not canned at Evanger's?



If people have Evanger's cans, please post photos of the codes.  People who have By Nature cans that they know are Menu, please post photos of those for comparison, if you can.

One difference with Evanger's cans that I know about is that the cans themselves are heavier, appear to be made of thicker metal, than Menu cans.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: catbird on June 12, 2009, 04:30:30 PM
It's terrible that Evanger's has had over a year to correct this problem, and hasn't. >:(


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: wicked fate on June 12, 2009, 04:36:25 PM
I swear one day there's going to be no pet food left to feed our pets...


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Cato on June 12, 2009, 04:52:04 PM
According to this thread reply this week - By Nature is no longer canned by Evangers.

http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/by-nature-organics-problem-t4064.75.html

How can people know if the product they have in stock was canned/not canned at Evanger's?

I don't know. I suppose we can form a circle and try to summon Rod Serling maybe he has an answer.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

gee... I know that Evanger's was talking about buying a new cannery way back in late 2007... wonder what happened to that plan? or is the "new" cannery the one that's causing all their present problems?  Ah!  I know! They bought a cannery from Craigslist!



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: raggiesrule on June 12, 2009, 06:03:58 PM
Oh goodness I know people feeding Artemis - off to warn them. Does anyone know if Artemis is still definitely being manufactured by Evander?

Thanks for the heads up Carol.

Jo


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JanC on June 12, 2009, 06:38:20 PM
I just read the FDA statement & came right over here......but, of course, you all beat me to it.

I have cans of Evangers (purchased a while ago) & Party Animal (purchased a couple of months ago).  I wanted to check the cans against one another & the codes.  Now I'm freaking out.  The cans look & feel identical & they have the same funny code in a half moon arc on the bottom.

Does anyone know who cans for Party Animal?  I'm afraid I might know the answer to that one...... :-\


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: bug on June 12, 2009, 06:44:01 PM
Botulinum doesn't take that long to make its presence known, so any cans that had been manufactured a year or more ago would be safe if they aren't bloated. Remember that it is an anaerobic bacteria that produces carbon dioxide in its environment. Any cans that don't have the lid and bottom sucked in are suspect.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JanC on June 12, 2009, 06:50:03 PM
bug......thanks for that info.  I didn't know that. 

I just sent off an email to Party Animal.......not sure I'll get an answer but at least I tried.

None of those cans are bloated & they are all good until '11 so I guess they're safe to use.  Not sure I'm comfortable doing that though. ???


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: jenny on June 12, 2009, 07:07:25 PM
I wonder if that is true.  A few months back I had a can of food (not related to Evanger's) that just didn't look right when I opened it. The can had a small dent in it, but no bloating and all seals looked intact. But the food was not right - it was easy to see.  I didn't take any chance and threw it away.  I had always heard botulism caused cans to bloat and this can was not bloated. But on the other hand, I had heard damaged cans were one cause of botulism.  So, I wasnt going to take any chances either way.  The food was an odd color too - gray if I remember right.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on June 12, 2009, 07:19:05 PM
When Castleberry? and Evangers had FDA notices before there was a lot of info about dented cans and botulism posted...a search of those might turn up some more info.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: jenny on June 12, 2009, 07:24:38 PM
No - it was just an isolated dented can. Some food I had ordered mail order.  But the dent was slight but the food was still not right. So mostly just asking the question whether the can really has to be bloated to have botulism.  This can was not, but I wasn't about to use it.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JustMe on June 12, 2009, 07:31:36 PM
I've never heard of dented cans being implicated in botulism.  Here's one link.  Yikes.  I've been using up a lot of them lately.  Need to look into this further.  Thanks for bringing this up Jenny.

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/botulism_gi.html

ETA: This second link talks about botulism and certain types of dented cans.

http://www.foodlinkny.org/pdfs/Can%20safety%20handout.pdf


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 12, 2009, 07:53:33 PM
I thought the info here on the cans was that if the dent was near a seam ,or where the top or bottom join the can it was a problem. I just check every can & return any with dents I missed. As far as Evangers not fixing the problems,we knew that from when the OCI agent contacted me. He flat out said it was not just paperwork. Not only was the processing bad,but that people weren't getting what they thought they were buying.For 3 different divisions of the FDA to be going after them,its got to be really bad. If anyone is interested,I have some info on them that I can't publically post,pm me.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on June 13, 2009, 04:05:09 AM
In January 2009 Evangers & the Shers were being sued for allegedly not paying overtime to folks.
The complaint listed and had paycheck exhibits for a couple of folks who worked over 80 hrs a week. The suit was seeking class action status & back to 3years wage adjustment with interest.

The defendants answers denied, claimed conclusory  and  "Defendants are in the process of conducting an internal audit of payroll but at this time have insufficient knowledge to admit or deny these allegations.", etc. etc.

Barragan & De La Rosa & all other similarly situated persons, known & unknown V. Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co Inc, Holly Sher & Joel Sher
 
Quote
Barragan et al v. Evanger's Dog and Cat Food Co., Inc. et al
CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 1:09-cv-00227
US District Court Northern District of Illinois Eastern Division
Cause: 29:201 Denial of Overtime Compensation

05/12/2009   31    MINUTE entry before the Honorable John W. Darrah: Class certification motion to be filed by 6/2/09, response by 6/23/09, reply by 7/7/09. Status hearing set for 8/20/09 at 9:00 a.m.  (Entered: 05/13/2009)

06/02/2009   32    MOTION by Plaintiffs Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa to certify class  (Entered: 06/02/2009)

06/02/2009   33    MEMORANDUM by Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa in support of motion to certify class 32 (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1-12) (Entered: 06/02/2009)

06/02/2009   34    NOTICE by Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa re memorandum in support of motion 33 , MOTION by Plaintiffs Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa to certify class 32  (Entered: 06/02/2009)



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on June 13, 2009, 04:10:20 AM
I swear one day there's going to be no pet food left to feed our pets...

I think alot of us would agree with that...so good reason for us to keep pushing for changes !! and "strike while the iron is hot".. This is a good time to get the word out anyway we can that our pet food industry needs changes..although I have to say I am impressed with the FDA for staying on top of this...now for them to keep up their investigations...elsewhere!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on June 13, 2009, 04:52:31 AM
and...remember that this suspension does not cover the continued manufacture of their products..as FDA can not do that..it just does not allow them to ship them out of Illinois...Important point to stew over I think!  So all Illinoians (??) ..spread the word as you could still buy it!!!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: jenny on June 13, 2009, 04:57:03 AM
I think Weruva mentioned on the previous page needs further investigation.  I understood their food to be canned in Thailand and their web page says it is too.

Regarding dented cans, just did a quick search. Seems there are varying opinions as to dented cans and botulism, a lot of them being people just chatting so was looking for something more official:
http://www.fairview.org/healthlibrary/content/aha_botulisi_crs.htm
"throw out dented cans...."
http://www.usmef.org/FoodSafety/Clostridium_Botulinum.pdf
(very interesting reading on this one)
"Visible indicators such as bulging or dented cans, clear liquids that have turned milky and cracked
jars can indicate that Clostridium botulinum could be present."
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/concen/cause/botulisme.shtml
"Never eat food from cans that are dented, leaking or have bulging ends. The food may not look or smell spoiled but it may still contain the toxin."

I did a search on this list but only found a few hits.

Jenny


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on June 13, 2009, 05:17:44 AM
and some more "food" for thought...

So what is preventing Evangers from still producing the food and stockpiling it now and then let's say in 6 mos the FDA sees "the appropriate corrections" and then releases them (or whatever they call it)  would the food produced prior to that be sold???  The FDA can not stop that I don't think... ???



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: wicked fate on June 13, 2009, 05:25:27 AM
On Weruva's website, what it says about the Kobe/Kurobota flavors is that it is sourced from the US and produced in a US based facility. The rest of them are canned Thailand.

I think Weruva mentioned on the previous page needs further investigation.  I understood their food to be canned in Thailand and their web page says it is too.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JanC on June 13, 2009, 05:29:01 AM
JustMe:  Thanks for that article on dented cans (like that it has pics).  I bookmarked that one because it's the best I've ever seen for determining what to throw away (in most cases, I bring it back to the store if I catch it before I open it but I have thrown away my fair share).  Dented cans scare me.

I do remember a while ago somebody (leslie, was it you?) posted something similar but I don't think it had pics.  Can't be too careful.

Now, with the Evangers thingie rearing its ugly head again, I'm even more paranoid.  I mentioned earlier that I'm now concerned that another brand I use for Hannah may be canned there.  I have a feeling the other brands are out running around looking for another place to can their foods.......probably Menu will get more business.  Oh boy!

I do have to say that I'm impressed that the FDA didn't drop the ball on this one.  Too bad they don't pursue other problems that are front & center right now.

I did wonder a few times exactly what was going on because I couldn't find any info on the whole mess.  I thought by now the emergency permit situation was over & done but I was obviously wrong.  I'm curious to see where they go from here. ???

Carol:  You bring up a good (& very scary) thought........let's hope there's a way that the FDA can nip that in the bud. :P


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: jenny on June 13, 2009, 05:37:24 AM
Oh, ok - I just read the Safety First info on their web page and it didn't mention it.  But I see it now on the page for the Kobe food.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on June 13, 2009, 07:21:25 AM
and...remember that this suspension does not cover the continued manufacture of their products..as FDA can not do that..it just does not allow them to ship them out of Illinois...Important point to stew over I think!  So all Illinoians (??) ..spread the word as you could still buy it!!!

That is really scary. Along with the Evangers statements before of there were no recalls.  We all know that recalls are voluntary. I cannot find one smidgen of a  place in my tiny mind that believes they would voluntarily recall anything after how they and the "evanger pr spit legions" left drivel  disingenuous comments all over the internet.

I wonder if an OSHA or Dept of Health Inspection could help? After all, according to the lawsuit there are at least two people working really long hours and since they're seeking class action it's claiming in the lawsuit that more than 2 people are possibly working some "overtime" hours there.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Steve on June 13, 2009, 07:57:26 AM
"strike while the iron is hot"..

Are we ready to rumble!


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on June 13, 2009, 10:09:41 AM
Evanger's Response re: FDA

http://www.evangersdogfood.com/about/statement2009_Joel.html


Another pass the buck for the issues, right?

Below is what they said last year, I wonder if the process authority is the same one?

http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/fda-suspends-temporary-emergency-permit-of-pet-food-maker-t4594.0.html;msg60258#msg60258

"Although FDA has raised these questions, Evanger’s continues to make and distribute its products with FDA approval.  Evanger’s is working closely with expert process consultants, TechniCal Inc., which has already fully addressed many of FDA’s inquiries, and we expect to have all FDA concerns fully satisfied shortly."


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on June 13, 2009, 10:44:54 AM
Why couldn't the FDA cooperate with local state health authorities in Illinois and go in and seize Evanger's
inventory on the belief that botulism is harmful to people and children handling this pet food? FDA has shut
down other food and drug makers this way. Just a thought on an issue that's drug on for over a year and
should have stopped long, long ago.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 13, 2009, 12:56:48 PM
Maybe it will be like the Castleberry plant & eventually be closed down permanently. We can hope anyway .


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Steve on June 13, 2009, 01:51:28 PM
Why couldn't the FDA cooperate with local state health authorities in Illinois and go in and seize Evanger's
inventory on the belief that botulism is harmful to people and children handling this pet food? FDA has shut
down other food and drug makers this way. Just a thought on an issue that's drug on for over a year and
should have stopped long, long ago.

The same excuse they've been giving us for years. Not enough people to handle the work load.

Well go figure how does that get fixed?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: raggiesrule on June 13, 2009, 05:03:30 PM
Astounds me that after a notice like the one released by the FDA Evanger puts out a release saying their is nothing wrong with their food, there is no recall it, their food is high quality and is safe. Pet food companies never seem to do a recall until there are multiple pets sickening and dying. How many cases of botulism do they want before they acknowledge they have a problem? What about fixing the process line so there is no longer the potential for very serious consequences. What about addressing the issues raised in the FDA notice in their press release. What about doing something constructive rather than just denying everything.

Having my own cats significantly affected and dying from pet food makes me very cautious about taking pet food companies word for how safe their food is especially after an issue has been identified. Very easy for for a company to say their food is safe much harder to watch your animals sicken and die. IMO Evanger needs to address the concerns raised by the FDA not tell us there products are safe. And be aware this company manufacturers canned food for other companies too has anone been able to find out more information on that.

I wrote to Artemis Australia about local product and was told that their dried food is safe but there canned food which is not imported is made by Evanger.

Jo


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on June 13, 2009, 05:19:27 PM
http://indyscorner.blogspot.com/  (Lillypants comment in red)

Saturday, June 13, 2009
Evanger's Blog Writer Denies License Suspension by FDA
I got this comment on my blog today form someone named "lillypants". Their Blogger profile leads to the Evanger's blog. Lillypants said:

    I don't know where this information came from but their license has not been suspended. Evanger's complies with FDA standards and it continues to make quality dog food. If there is any concern, please call the FDA or Evanger's directly to make sure you get truthful information, instead of relying on internet speculation.

Well lillypants - this information came directly from the FDA web site. I had that link in my previous post too, but I guess you missed it somehow. So, the FDA DID announce yesterday that it is suspending Evanger's temporary license, and it also states:

    deviated from the prescribed process, equipment, product shipment, and recordkeeping requirements in the production of the company's thermally processed low acid canned food (LACF) products. The deviations in their processes and documentation could result in under-processed pet foods, which can allow the survival and growth of Clostridium botulinum (C. botulinum), a bacterium that causes botulism in some animals as well as in humans.
    In April 2008, Evanger’s was issued an “Order of Need for Emergency Permit” after the agency determined that the company had failed to meet the regulatory requirements to process a product that does not present a health risk. In June, 2008, FDA issued Evanger’s a temporary Emergency Permit. During inspections conducted between March 2009 and April 2009, FDA determined Evanger’s was not operating in compliance with the mandatory requirements and conditions of the Temporary Emergency Permit.
    “The FDA is stopping Evanger's ability to ship pet food in interstate commerce,” said Dr. Bernadette Dunham. “Today’s enforcement action sends a strong message to manufacturers of pet food that we will take whatever action necessary to keep unsafe products from reaching consumers.”
    In order for Evanger's to resume shipping in interstate commerce, the company must document that corrective actions and processing procedures have been implemented to ensure that the finished product will not present a health hazard.

So, there you go. It came directly from the FDA, so it is NOT "internet speculation". And as far as suggesting that I call Evanger's to get the truth? The fact that you completely ignored the link to the FDA announcement completely ruined your credibility, and hurt Evanger's credibility, and I'm not going to take their word for it that none of this is true and everything is hunky dory. If you think this information is untrue, you need to take it up with the FDA, since they made the announcement. Everything I posted here was true.
I have fed my dog Evanger's for the past three years, but am now looking for an alternative.

I also found several complaints from dog owners about their dogs becoming seriously ill after eating Evangers dog food on Consumer Affairs. It seems many of these people sent food out for testing and contacted the FDA, which may be what launched the FDA's investigation. The said thing is that all of the dog owners report either a lack of response, or very dismissive responses from Evanger's when they contacted them about their experiences.

There is another post on Pet Connection about Evanger's License being suspended by the FDA. Note the many denials of any license suspension by Evanger's staff in the comments, even though the FDA has the announcement on their web site. Not that smartest way to handle bad publicity, Evangers folks.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 13, 2009, 07:22:06 PM
I tried to leave a comment on lillypants blog,but apparently am blocked. Amazing that they had no way to contact me for a year but can block me from asking questions or leaving comments Huh ? Someone else will need to post there,preferably someone who has never contacted them so you won't be blocked.TIA !


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JJ on June 13, 2009, 10:02:59 PM
According to this thread reply this week - By Nature is no longer canned by Evangers.

http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/by-nature-organics-problem-t4064.75.html
I scrolled thru the link you provided and only found reference that they were trying to contact the manufacturer (Evanger's) in one of the posts so sounds like this food is still made by Evanger's.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Mandycat on June 13, 2009, 10:16:30 PM
JJ,
     rcexplorer's post #82 on that thread says that she e-mailed By Nature and she posted their reply which says that they no longer use Evanger's for canning their food. 


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JJ on June 13, 2009, 10:19:33 PM
Thx MC. I didn't go thru the whole thread just where the link led me to so people feeding By Nature should not be stressed out.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on June 14, 2009, 05:56:43 AM
"strike while the iron is hot"..

Are we ready to rumble!

Well, maybe...I can think of some in the pet food industry that I would like to rumble with (and them me probably)..but what I was meaning is this...and since I posted that we know of another "problem" ..this time with Natures Variety and their "withdrawal"  (If I saw voluntary recall I really would have puked ) ...back to what I meant...a good time to write some questions to the FDA regarding the restrictions on Evangers for example...like why can they just not ship and who will protect our pets when the food is "released" for their trip across the US and elsewhere...Email or write your state legislators asking the same questions and bringing this topic of unsafe pet food front and center again and again and again....I don't expect things to change overnite but if we aren't the squeaky wheels then nothing will ever change...I doubt pet food co's, no matter what they say about caring for our pets and blah blah blah,...will ever ask for changes in the system to ensure safe pet food.  I had said many months ago, the reason for my concerns and emails and letters and phone calls was not for Smudge and Jessica and Harry and Lucy as I felt that they all would be gone when we as petowners saw some forward progress in safe food (and not just pet food) and I still know that anything I may try to do today may not benefit Jack, Lucy, Lovey or Hidey...but I can not sit quietly with what I have learned since that horrible day in March 16, 2007 when I began my search of how something like that could happen...my rose colored glasses told me somebody's elbow must have knocked something bad in my cat food...how naive I was and may still be...but I can not give up trying to make a difference..


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: raggiesrule on June 14, 2009, 06:20:25 AM
If enough people rattle govts cage change can come we have seen a step in the right direction in Australia. If we can get action you can too but as Carol said you all need to write to your state legislators and keep following it up.  Jo


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: bug on June 14, 2009, 10:26:06 AM
Jo, you guys are our inspiration. Part of our problem is that there aren't any vets willing to stick their necks out on these matters. Even in the 2007 recalls, I don't remember any vets calling for PFCs heads. I don't know if anyone has a conscience anymore. When it's just the people and there aren't any powerful groups or people backing them, it's really hard to get anyone to listen and act. Still, we try.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: raggiesrule on June 15, 2009, 04:17:05 AM
One of the affected cats owners has led the charge - she has been amazing. And we have had support from our vets and now the RSPCA is on side as well. Makes all the difference when others start standing up and saying this is not OK and it needs to be changed. I hope you guys can make people listen too it is not OK that this happens over and over again.

Jo


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: ProDogFood on June 15, 2009, 09:24:07 AM
Everyone, as you reference the FDA statement, don't forget to recognize that the statement does not call into question the safety of the food.
http://evangersdogfood.com/about/statement32009_Joel.html


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on June 15, 2009, 09:27:28 AM
Cross-Posting:

http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/another-problem-with-evangers-t8264.0.html;msg126135#msg126135


http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm166265.htm

FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker
June 12, 2009


The U.S. Food and Drug Administration announced today it was suspending the temporary Emergency Permit issued to Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc.

Evanger's, operating in Wheeling, Illinois, deviated from the prescribed process, equipment, product shipment, and recordkeeping requirements in the production of the company's thermally processed low acid canned food (LACF) products.  The deviations in their processes and documentation could result in under-processed pet foods, which can allow the survival and growth of Clostridium botulinum (C. botulinum), a bacterium that causes botulism in some animals as well as in humans.

In April 2008, Evanger’s was issued an “Order of Need for Emergency Permit” after the agency determined that the company had failed to meet the regulatory requirements to process a product that does not present a health risk.   In June, 2008, FDA issued Evanger’s a temporary Emergency Permit.  During inspections conducted between March 2009 and April 2009, FDA determined Evanger’s was not operating in compliance with the mandatory requirements and conditions of the Temporary Emergency Permit.

“The FDA is stopping Evanger's ability to ship pet food in interstate commerce,” said Dr. Bernadette Dunham. “Today’s enforcement action sends a strong message to manufacturers of pet food that we will take whatever action necessary to keep unsafe products from reaching consumers.”

In order for Evanger's to resume shipping in interstate commerce, the company must document that corrective actions and processing procedures have been implemented to ensure that the finished product will not present a health hazard.

Botulism is a powerful toxin that affects the nervous system and can be fatal. The disease has been documented in dogs and cats. Signs of botulism in animals are progressive muscle paralysis, disturbed vision, difficulty in chewing and swallowing, and progressive weakness to the body. Death is usually due to paralysis of the heart or the muscles used in breathing.

While FDA’s Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition is responsible for regulating all human and animal LACF processing, FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine has authority over animal feed and foods.  The two centers are collaborating on this enforcement action.

There is no proof re: this is actually what the FDA report says--you haven't provided any.  These are words which could have come from any source. We have no attachments posted here.

Quote
To give you a complete picture of the facts, here is the actual explanation that was sent to us by the F.D.A. as cited for the reason for taking action (SEE ATTACHED)


This thread is filled with posts like this from 2008:

http://itchmoforums.com/news-recall-related/fda-suspends-temporary-emergency-permit-of-pet-food-maker-t4594.0.html

To answer a few of the questions that have been raised here-

There have been no botulism cases in our foods.
The problem was with our documentation and our paperwork (no major violations)
This was not an investigation by the FDA, it was a normal inspection (the first inspection since the Sher's bought the plant in 2001)

We are also not opperating under an emergency permit, the FDA report had false information in it. We are also conducting business as usual, in every state.  

Anyone who has questions should call our office at 800-288-6796 or 847-537-0102.

Thanks,
Brenton Weaver
Evanger's Pet Foods



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Spartycats on June 15, 2009, 09:35:08 AM
Everyone, as you reference the FDA statement, don't forget to recognize that the statement does not call into question the safety of the food.
http://evangersdogfood.com/about/statement32009_Joel.html

"In order for Evanger's to resume shipping in interstate commerce, the company must document that corrective actions and processing procedures have been implemented to ensure that the finished product will not present a health hazard.

Botulism is a powerful toxin that affects the nervous system and can be fatal. The disease has been documented in dogs and cats. Signs of botulism in animals are progressive muscle paralysis, disturbed vision, difficulty in chewing and swallowing, and progressive weakness to the body. Death is usually due to paralysis of the heart or the muscles used in breathing."

Huh??


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on June 15, 2009, 09:59:15 AM
Since FDA's revamp is still not complete, many of the new links for the low-acid canning inspection information is offline, but we can work with this Google cached page from FDA:

http://google2.fda.gov/search?q=cache:TsmAYHnbN5MJ:www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm%3FCFRPart%3D108%26showFR%3D1+emergency+permit+control&access=p&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&lr=&client=FDAgov&site=FDAgov&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&oe=ISO-8859-1 (http://google2.fda.gov/search?q=cache:TsmAYHnbN5MJ:www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm%3FCFRPart%3D108%26showFR%3D1+emergency+permit+control&access=p&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&lr=&client=FDAgov&site=FDAgov&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&oe=ISO-8859-1)

"Sec. 108.5 Determination of the need for a permit. 

(a) "Whenever the Commissioner determines after investigation that a manufacturer, processor, or packer of a food for which a regulation has been promulgated in subpart B of this part does not meet the mandatory conditions and requirements established in such regulation, he shall issue to such manufacturer, processor, or packer an order determining that a permit shall be required before the food may be introduced or delivered for introduction into interstate commerce by that person.  The order shall specify the mandatory conditions and requirements with which there is a lack of compliance.

(b) "A hearing under this section shall be conducted by the Commissioner or his designee at a location agreed upon by the objector and the Commissioner or, if such agreement cannot be reached, at a location designated by the Commissioner. The manufacturer, processor, or packer shall have the right to cross-examine the Food and Drug Administration's witnesses and to present witnesses on his own behalf.

(c) "Within 5 working days after the hearing, and based on the evidence presented at the hearing, the Commissioner shall determine whether a permit is required and shall so inform the manufacturer, processor, or packer in writing, with the reasons for his decision.

(d) "The Commissioner's determination of the need for a permit constitutes final agency action from which appeal lies to the courts. The Commissioner will not stay a determination of the need for a permit pending court appeal except in unusual circumstances, but will participate in expediting any such appeal.



Sec. 108.10 Suspension and reinstatement of permit. 

(a) "Whenever the Commissioner finds that a permit holder is not in compliance with the mandatory requirements and conditions established by the permit, he shall immediately suspend the permit and so inform the permit holder, with the reasons for the suspension.

(b) "Upon application for reinstatement of a permit, the Commissioner shall, within 10 working days, reinstate the permit if he finds that the person is in compliance with the mandatory requirements and conditions established by the permit or deny the application.

(c) "Any person whose permit has been suspended or whose application for reinstatement has been denied may request a hearing. The hearing shall be conducted by the Commissioner or his designee within 5 working days of receipt of the request at a location agreed upon by the objector and the Commissioner or, if an agreement cannot be reached, at a location designated by the Commissioner. The permit holder shall have the right to present witnesses on his own behalf and to cross-examine the Food and Drug Administration's witnesses.

(d) "Within 5 working days after the hearing, and based on the evidence presented at the hearing, the Commissioner shall determine whether the permit shall be reinstated and shall so inform the permit holder, with the reasons for his decision.

(e) "Denial of an application for reinstatement of a permit constitutes final agency action from which appeal lies to the courts. The Commisioner will not stay such denial pending court appeal except in unusual circumstances, but will participate in expediting any such appeal.



Sec. 108.12 Manufacturing, processing, or packing without a permit, or in violation of a permit. 

(a) "A manufacturer, processor, or packer may continue at his own risk to manufacture, process, or pack without a permit a food for which the Commissioner has determined that a permit is required. All food so manufactured, processed, or packed during such period without a permit shall be retained by the manufacturer, processor, or packer and may not be introduced or delivered for introduction into interstate commerce without the advance written approval of the Food and Drug Administration. Such approval may be granted only upon an adequate showing that such food is free from microorganisms of public health significance. The manufacturer, processor, or packer may provide to the Commissioner, for his consideration in making any such determination, an evaluation of the potential public health significance of such food by a competent authority in accordance with procedures recognized as being adequate to detect any potential hazard to public health. Within 20 working days after receipt of a written request for such written approval the Food and Drug Administration shall either issue such written approval or deny the request. If the request is denied, the applicant shall, upon request, be afforded a prompt hearing conducted in accordance with 108.5 (b) and (c).

(b) "Except as provided in paragraph (a) of this section, no manufacturer, processor, or packer may introduce or deliver for introduction into interstate commerce without a permit or in violation of a permit a food for which the Commissioner has determined that a permit is required. Where a manufacturer, processor, or packer utilizes a consolidation warehouse or other storage facility under his control, interstate shipment of any such food from the point of production to that warehouse or storage facility shall not violate this paragraph, provided that no further introduction or delivery for introduction into interstate commerce is made from that consolidated warehouse or storage facility except as provided in paragraph (a) of this section."


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JJ on June 15, 2009, 10:45:02 AM
Everyone, as you reference the FDA statement, don't forget to recognize that the statement does not call into question the safety of the food.
http://evangersdogfood.com/about/statement32009_Joel.html

"In order for Evanger's to resume shipping in interstate commerce, the company must document that corrective actions and processing procedures have been implemented to ensure that the finished product will not present a health hazard.

Botulism is a powerful toxin that affects the nervous system and can be fatal. The disease has been documented in dogs and cats. Signs of botulism in animals are progressive muscle paralysis, disturbed vision, difficulty in chewing and swallowing, and progressive weakness to the body. Death is usually due to paralysis of the heart or the muscles used in breathing."

Huh??
Huh is right - From the link to the Evanger's site upon reading their statement and what the FDA looked into it reads that Evangers was going to heat all the food the same way as the vegetarian canned. And that the FDA was not informed of the can (tinplate) size change made by Evanger's. Does the size of the can affect the way the food is heated before being sealed? Did the FDA delete the wrong files for Evangers or what?  Can someone add more clarity to this please.....


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Cato on June 15, 2009, 03:40:36 PM
One of the affected cats owners has led the charge - she has been amazing. And we have had support from our vets and now the RSPCA is on side as well. Makes all the difference when others start standing up and saying this is not OK and it needs to be changed. I hope you guys can make people listen too it is not OK that this happens over and over again.

Jo

Oh,  that we could have that happen here: the veterinary community, the SPCA and other shelters, and pet guardians and animal lovers join forces to make gove't really really listen


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on June 15, 2009, 03:45:14 PM
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2009/06/fda_evangers02.html

New ConsumerAffairs story--Pet Owners Unsurprised by FDA Shutdown of Evanger's

ConsumerAffairs.com June 15, 2009

http://i26.tinypic.com/2uo5qua.jpg

LeslieK's test results


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: runwiththewind on June 15, 2009, 04:59:04 PM
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2009/06/fda_evangers02.html


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on June 15, 2009, 05:19:21 PM
Anyone think to save this thread before the posts started disappearing again ?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on June 16, 2009, 02:46:19 AM
Anyone think to save this thread before the posts started disappearing again ?

Probably!  ;)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on September 15, 2009, 09:59:29 AM
In January 2009 Evangers & the Shers were being sued for allegedly not paying overtime to folks.
The complaint listed and had paycheck exhibits for a couple of folks who worked over 80 hrs a week. The suit was seeking class action status & back to 3years wage adjustment with interest.

The defendants answers denied, claimed conclusory  and  "Defendants are in the process of conducting an internal audit of payroll but at this time have insufficient knowledge to admit or deny these allegations.", etc. etc.

Barragan & De La Rosa & all other similarly situated persons, known & unknown V. Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co Inc, Holly Sher & Joel Sher
 
Quote
Barragan et al v. Evanger's Dog and Cat Food Co., Inc. et al
CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 1:09-cv-00227
US District Court Northern District of Illinois Eastern Division
Cause: 29:201 Denial of Overtime Compensation

05/12/2009   31    MINUTE entry before the Honorable John W. Darrah: Class certification motion to be filed by 6/2/09, response by 6/23/09, reply by 7/7/09. Status hearing set for 8/20/09 at 9:00 a.m.  (Entered: 05/13/2009)

06/02/2009   32    MOTION by Plaintiffs Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa to certify class  (Entered: 06/02/2009)

06/02/2009   33    MEMORANDUM by Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa in support of motion to certify class 32 (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1-12) (Entered: 06/02/2009)

06/02/2009   34    NOTICE by Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa re memorandum in support of motion 33 , MOTION by Plaintiffs Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa to certify class 32  (Entered: 06/02/2009)


Class action status was Granted the Plaintiffs  Aug 27th 2009.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on September 15, 2009, 10:05:18 AM
"Cause: 29:201 Denial of Overtime Compensation"
If guilty, I hope the Shers will have to pay.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: JJ on September 15, 2009, 10:26:58 AM
Wonder if any of these employees thought to contact the labor board first? We all pay taxes for this and they might not have had to use a lawyer. The labor board would go in, check the books, and any money these people were not paid - they would then receive it.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on November 13, 2009, 05:09:23 PM
In January 2009 Evangers & the Shers were being sued for allegedly not paying overtime to folks.
The complaint listed and had paycheck exhibits for a couple of folks who worked over 80 hrs a week. The suit was seeking class action status & back to 3years wage adjustment with interest.

The defendants answers denied, claimed conclusory  and  "Defendants are in the process of conducting an internal audit of payroll but at this time have insufficient knowledge to admit or deny these allegations.", etc. etc.

Barragan & De La Rosa & all other similarly situated persons, known & unknown V. Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co Inc, Holly Sher & Joel Sher
 
Quote
Barragan et al v. Evanger's Dog and Cat Food Co., Inc. et al
CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 1:09-cv-00227
US District Court Northern District of Illinois Eastern Division
Cause: 29:201 Denial of Overtime Compensation

05/12/2009   31    MINUTE entry before the Honorable John W. Darrah: Class certification motion to be filed by 6/2/09, response by 6/23/09, reply by 7/7/09. Status hearing set for 8/20/09 at 9:00 a.m.  (Entered: 05/13/2009)

06/02/2009   32    MOTION by Plaintiffs Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa to certify class  (Entered: 06/02/2009)

06/02/2009   33    MEMORANDUM by Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa in support of motion to certify class 32 (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1-12) (Entered: 06/02/2009)

06/02/2009   34    NOTICE by Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa re memorandum in support of motion 33 , MOTION by Plaintiffs Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa to certify class 32  (Entered: 06/02/2009)


Class action status was Granted the Plaintiffs  Aug 27th 2009.

Updated:

11/12/2009   51    MINUTE entry before the Honorable John W. Darrah: Plaintiffs' motion for approval of their class action notice and notice program 48 is entered and continued to 12/3/09 at 9:00 a.m. for a further hearing. Defendant is granted leave to file a response by 11/19/09. Mailed notice (Entered: 11/12/2009)

11/12/2009   52    Pursuant to Local Rule 72.1, this case is hereby referred to the calendar of Honorable Michael T. Mason for the purpose of holding proceedings related to: a settlement conference. Mailed notice.  (Entered: 11/12/2009)



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on February 05, 2010, 08:47:44 AM
It appears no settlement resolution in the labor lawsuit:


12/02/2009   56[RECAP]    MINUTE entry before the Honorable Michael T. Mason:Settlement conference held on 12/2/09. The parties were not able to reach a resolution to settle the case at this time. All matters relating to the referral of this case having been resolved, the referral is closed and the case is returned to the assigned judge. Judge Michael T. Mason no longer referred to the case. Mailed notice. (rbf, ) (Entered: 12/02/2009)

12/03/2009   57[RECAP]    MINUTE entry before the Honorable John W. Darrah:Plaintiffs' motion to approve the class 48 is granted. Status hearing set for 1/19/10 at 9:00 a.m. Mailed notice(maf) (Entered: 12/03/2009)


01/19/2010   58    MINUTE entry before Honorable John W. Darrah: Status hearing held and continued to 2/25/10 at 9:00 a.m. Mailed notice(maf ) (Entered: 01/19/2010)



Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on February 05, 2010, 09:29:56 AM
Thanks, BP, for posting. Nice treatment of employees by this caring management it seems.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Offy on March 24, 2010, 02:57:12 PM
Looks like a settlement is actually in motion... I hope todays other news doesn't mess it up for these people.

Quote
02/25/2010   59    MINUTE entry before Honorable John W. Darrah: Status hearing held and continued to 3/16/10 at 9:00 a.m. Mailed notice(maf) (Entered: 02/25/2010)

03/10/2010   60    MOTION by Plaintiffs Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa for Preliminary Approval of Proposed Settlement (Entered: 03/10/2010)

03/10/2010   61    MEMORANDUM by Francisco Barragan, Liberto De La Rosa in support of motion for miscellaneous relief 60 (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1 - 3) (Entered: 03/10/2010)

03/10/2010   62    NOTICE of Motion by  for presentment of motion for miscellaneous relief 60 before Honorable John W. Darrah on 3/16/2010 at 09:00 AM.) (Entered:
03/10/2010)

03/18/2010   63    MINUTE entry before Honorable John W. Darrah: Ruling on motion hearing held. Plaintiffs' motion for preliminary approval of the proposed settlement is granted 60 . Fairness hearing set for 8/19/10 at 9:30 a.m. Enter Order. [For further detail see separate order(s).] Mailed notice (tc, ) (Entered: 03/18/2010)

03/18/2010   64    ORDER Preliminarily approving proposed settlement, scheduling hearing for final approval of, and approving proposed class notice Signed by the Honorable John W. Darrah on 3/16/2010. (tc, ) (Entered: 03/18/2010)


If you're checking Justia or Pacer or Recap I've highlighted the documents of some interest. (over 70 pages)


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: 3catkidneyfailure on March 24, 2010, 06:43:49 PM
I hope these employees end up being treated fairly, too, under whatever settlement agreement
they've reached.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Carol on March 25, 2010, 03:12:20 AM
According to this blogger---Evangers still was under the FDA/CVM scope for approval with interstate shipping as of this month..(If this is here somewhere else please tell me and I'll delete it  :D)

http://efoodalert.blogspot.com/2009/06/evangers-filling-in-blanks.html


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on March 26, 2010, 05:40:51 PM
FWIW, this is a pet store owner's blog with post dating back to last year re: the Evanger's/Emergency Permit problem:

http://www.midastouchhealth.com/id76.html

July 29, 2009

"After pulling the Evanger's products from the shelves at Midas Touch I discovered that Evanger’s manufactures food for other pet food companies. Unfortunately, Evanger’s declined to answer my question when asked for a list of those companies. In fact, when I posed these questions by email: “Are the pet foods you make for other companies included in the FDA action? Can you please tell me all of the companies for which you process pet food?” I received this response: “This was a (DOCUMENTATION ) issue that has been resolved……Thank you.”

"This prompted me to contact the FDA’s Center for Veterinary Medicine to find out if the issue had truly been resolved. I received this response from the FDA: “Thank you for contacting the Center for Veterinary Medicine. In response to your inquiry re: the status of Evanger's, I can provide you with the following information: The temporary emergency permit for Evanger's Dog & Cat Food Co., Inc. continues to be suspended. Because the emergency permit is suspended, this company can ship product only after FDA approval of each lot, i.e. on a "lot by lot" release. FDA has authorized the shipment of specific lots after review of reports submitted on the company's behalf by its processing authority. “

"Because Evanger’s was not cooperative in providing the list I requested, and because they were not accurate in stating the issue was resolved, I began researching the manufacturers of all of the canned food on our shelves. I found that one of the Weruva varieties and all of the Blackwood dog foods are from the Evanger’s plant. So, those items are no longer being sold at Midas Touch. (We will continue to sell the Weruva varieties that are not manufactured by Evanger’s.)"

AFAIK, some Canadae and Felidae canned varieties are also produced at Evanger's.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on March 26, 2010, 07:25:35 PM
Sh*t ! I use Weruva as a backup. Have to call them Monday,if they won't tell me which ones that will be 1 more brand I avoid.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: Mandycat on March 26, 2010, 09:21:33 PM
Sh*t ! I use Weruva as a backup. Have to call them Monday,if they won't tell me which ones that will be 1 more brand I avoid.

Leslie,
The Midas Touch store said that they removed just one variety of Weruva that they found was manufactured at Evanger's.  If you can't find out about where what you are using is made, perhaps you can contact the Midas Touch store and ask what Weruva foods they sell and you will know that they are not made by Evanger's.  There is contact information on the Midas Touch store's website posted above.  They do still list Weruva as one of the brands they sell.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on March 27, 2010, 06:04:26 AM
Sent an email this am, but will check to see what they carry also. I really don't want to use anything with an Evangers connection. Will contact Weruva also on Monday.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on March 27, 2010, 01:39:04 PM
I heard back from Jo at Midatouch . She got the information from Weruva, the loaf style cans made in the USA are done at Evangers. I'll crosspost this in the Weruva threads.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: menusux on March 27, 2010, 01:55:50 PM
From the Weruva website-Kobe and Kurobuta-

http://www.weruva.com/

"Despite the international influence, all ingredients are sourced in the US and these formulas are produced in a US pet food facility."

There's Kobe Master (all beef), Kobe Yune (chicken and turkey), Kobe Gyro (lamb and beef), Kurobuta Pagoda (pork and chicken), Kurobuta Hero (pork and turkey)--these are for dogs. 

Are all of these produced by Evanger's or just one as she said in her blog?


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on March 27, 2010, 04:38:28 PM
Not sure, they told her all pate styles & made in the USA. I checked the website & it looks like all Kobe & Korabuto dog flavors. I sent them an email & will call Monday. I couldn't find any pate style cat food or any cat food made in the USA. Jo at Midas Touch also gave me info about which pfc's use ethoxaquin. I'll post that also in the brands.


Title: Re: FDA Suspends Temporary Emergency Permit of Pet Food Maker Evanger's
Post by: lesliek on March 29, 2010, 02:51:25 PM
Here's the answer from Weruva, http://itchmoforums.com/off-topic-no-politics/pet-food-firm-owners-accused-of-stealing-2m-in-electricity-gas-t10767.0.html;msg160106#msg160106 (http://itchmoforums.com/off-topic-no-politics/pet-food-firm-owners-accused-of-stealing-2m-in-electricity-gas-t10767.0.html;msg160106#msg160106)