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Pet Food Info (Menu Foods, Iams, Purina, Hills, Ol'Roy, etc.) => Making Your Own Pet Food And Home Remedies => Topic started by: DonnaD on May 01, 2007, 07:48:17 AM



Title: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: DonnaD on May 01, 2007, 07:48:17 AM
I'm making my own cat food...looking for a source of taurine that does not have a chinese connection. I have surfed several sites...one states right on it that it's from china. Several others dont state specifically, and when I emailed the company the response is usually they don't know but have been selling it for years with no problems (words to that effect).

Looking for products from USA.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: caschi on May 01, 2007, 01:12:33 PM
maybe whole foods.  checked a few of their taurine brands.  forgot to look for where made.  thanks for the reminder.  so many things to watch out for now... :o  need to make a list and keep it in my bag!  LOL!

didn't buy any at whole foods because am hoping to find something that is pure taurine without other ingredients like rice powder, cellulose (apart from the capsule), magnesium stearate, etc.  will need to find out what some of those are...  the rice powder just didn't fly with me tho'.  gee.  wonder why?   :-\

will check my local nature mart, natural food store...

maria


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: BobbiW on May 01, 2007, 03:41:57 PM
I don't know what country its from, but PetAg makes a taurine supplement chew for cats.  The company's web site is http://www.petag.com/.  They have contact information posted.  I have seen the product on the Pet Food Direct web site.  Also, taurine for humans is sold in some health food stores.  You would have to determine the appropriate dosage for cats, however, and make sure there are no fillers that would be harmful.  Hope this helps.

Bobbi


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: ragdoll on May 02, 2007, 05:22:04 PM
My bottle of Taurine says "made in the U.S.A." - it is made by "NOW" (www.nowfoods.com).  Of course, made in the USA doesn't necessarily mean anything these days does it?


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: DonnaD on May 03, 2007, 05:36:30 AM
Thank you ragdoll. Now foods was one of the companies I emailed but I didn't get a response. I read that even if it says Made in USA, the ingredients might be sourced from China and it might be manufactured/packaged in the US, but I guess if I have to take a chance on something, Now Foods looked like one of the better options.

Thank you again!


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: wrigslvr on May 03, 2007, 09:02:05 AM
I would love to find this out as well! If anyone can locate a U.S. source, please post here. I emailed NOW Foods and they say they source ingredients from all over the world, including China. The assured me that they do extensive testing, etc., blah, blah, blah. They also claim to be testing for melamine. All those reassurances don't mean much to me in light of the current situation. I am feeding home-prepared diets to my cat and dog and really would like to locate a safe source of taurine (my cat won't eat raw). Thanks!


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: DonnaD on May 03, 2007, 09:41:34 AM
What foods contain taurine? I'd prefer to not use supplements at all if I can get away with it. From what I've read there seems to be a lot of taurine in clams.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: anna_2007 on May 03, 2007, 10:15:44 AM
everyone is looking including over at Dr. Andrew Weil's pet recall thread. I have posted here that BASF (the people who don't make things but make them "better" , the largest chemical company in the world, who OBTW own the license to the Melamine process...) well, read for yourself:
Quote
" Due to the global economy and worldwide outsourcing, some ingredients or supplements are not made in the U.S. or are not made in sufficient quantity. Most pet food and human food companies and makers of supplements most likely source some supplements from China. Most B vitamins for human and pet consumption come from China. In our supplements, U.S. vitamin maker BASF sources some vitamins from China. This will be true of the vitamin content for most pet foods you buy and for many pet or human vitamins you use. The Glucosamine we humans take as well as the Glucosamine in your pet’s food most likely is sourced from  China. The same is true for human grade Taurine. Some pet food makers seem unaware that some ingredients of necessity must be sourced from China; scary they don’t know."

The answer is ALL TAURINE and if you speak off the record, you will find the real answer is ALL VITAMINS but I'm hoping that's not altogether true either.

TAURINE delays or reverses the aging process in humans (see quote below, we need it too) so there you go, no wonder some IG Farben derivative somehow seems to OWN that... it's also in energy drinks... beware...

Taurine in the pharmaceutical and lab setting is synthesized through a combination of cysteine, methionine and vitamin E.

Be aware that BASF is developing/pushing globally a genetically engineered version of VITAMIN E one they say will incorporate a cure for prostate cancer. Thank you but as a female I really don't want "Franken Vitamins" and neither will I feed my cat the same.

Quote
It has been established that taurine concentration is extraordinarily high in the developing brain, and falls of sharply thereafter. This occurs at a time when the presumed synthetic pathway, via cysteine sulfinate decarboxylase, has little measurable activity, suggesting that a dietary source of taurine is essential. Moreover, it has been found that high concentrations of taurine are present in breast milk, which reflects the important need for taurine by the growing animal.

They destroy the quality of our soil with their pesticides and chemical farming methods, they try to push their "frankenfood GMO seeds" on us, when we supplement with vitamins, we find they own all that and are mucking with that too. With no recourse.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: anna_2007 on May 03, 2007, 10:23:58 AM
My bottle of Taurine says "made in the U.S.A." - it is made by "NOW" (www.nowfoods.com).  Of course, made in the USA doesn't necessarily mean anything these days does it?

I called HERBAL REMEDIES and asked them, they said I have to email their information@herbalremedies.com which as been coming back with this for days now.

Disk Quota Exceeded.
Sorry, your message cannot be delivered because the recipient has
exceeded their disk space limit for email.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: wrigslvr on May 03, 2007, 10:45:29 AM
What foods contain taurine? I'd prefer to not use supplements at all if I can get away with it. From what I've read there seems to be a lot of taurine in clams.

Hi Donna,

Clams do have a lot of taurine (my cat doesn't like clams!). There are charts at the following URL that list taurine content of various foods.

<http://www.serve.com/BatonRouge/taurine_chmr.htm>


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: DonnaD on May 03, 2007, 12:47:12 PM
Anna, really scary stuff. We need to open our eyes. I guess I was naive, thought the FDA was watching this sort of thing.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: DonnaD on May 03, 2007, 12:48:05 PM
wrigslvr, that's a great chart. I notice that sardines aren't on there. Too bad, they're cheap and my kids love them.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: angeltjd on May 03, 2007, 06:42:58 PM
A good source of taurine is chicken hearts.

You can get them from http://www.hare-today.com/product_info.php?products_id=66


Heather


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: DonnaD on May 04, 2007, 10:01:35 AM
Heather, that's excellent. I saw chicken hearts at my grocery store the other day, they sell small containers of hearts, gizzards, liver, etc. My only issue is, since it's from a chicken...what if it's from a tainted chicken? That's why I was looking for a fish solution, for the time being at least.

Will cooking the hearts destroy the taurine? Do they need to be served up raw?


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: angeltjd on May 04, 2007, 10:45:45 AM
Even if melamine contaminated chickens, it seems as if the adverse effects would be in the digestive areas, since we are seeing kidney/urinary issues in our animals.  I'm no biologist but that's what makes sense to me.  I don't believe it would affect the hearts.

I've fed raw food for over a year combined with some Wellness canned.  I, too, have been concerned with the possibility of contaminated chicken.  At this time, I feel confident that the muscle meat, bones, hearts are fine even if the chicken was fed tainted feed.  If you are feeding raw and need to source liver, I would make sure it's organic or from a reputable place like Hare-Today.

I wouldn't feed raw fish/clams etc as a source of taurine.  Raw fish can lead to a thaimine deficiency, plus fish (and beef) can be extremely hyperallergenic to cats.

Cooking over 110 degrees can destroy nutrients. I wouldn't cook the hearts, just serve 'em up raw.

That's my $0.02.

Heather


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: ancona on May 05, 2007, 01:39:22 PM
Saying made in USA does mean such in many many instances.

Vit C is imported, the product in many cases is imported and sold here, so it says made in USA

The same is bothering me about Nupro , since I am cooking for the dogs, I fear adding this to their foods.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: JJ on May 05, 2007, 06:15:16 PM
Heather, that's excellent. I saw chicken hearts at my grocery store the other day, they sell small containers of hearts, gizzards, liver, etc. My only issue is, since it's from a chicken...what if it's from a tainted chicken? That's why I was looking for a fish solution, for the time being at least.

Will cooking the hearts destroy the taurine? Do they need to be served up raw?
Hi Donna - Just a thought is the fish going to be safe or loaded with mercury? Wonder if the fish contained in some of the pet foods is the type known to contain lots of mercury? I do not eat fish anymore (for over a yr)  nor feed any type to my dog. MIght be worth asking about before feeding anything to your pets.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: DonnaD on May 06, 2007, 05:25:35 AM
Thanks JJ. I know I've read about the mercury in tuna, I haven't heard of a big problem in sardines, which is what I've given my cats (only twice though, thye've mostly eaten chicken). They get some Felidae dry everyday, so they do get some taurine. I'm hoping to slowly ease off dry and homemade cooked, and eventually switch them to all raw. 


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: DonnaD on May 06, 2007, 05:26:23 AM
Thanks Heather. I knew chicken livers would be bad news, I assumed the same for hearts.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Marilyn on May 06, 2007, 08:18:26 AM
For those of you looking for taurine that is made in the USA, I just found this company that claims products are all made in the USA.  It is American Ingredients, a division of PharmaChem.  Their amino acids appear to be made by a plant here in the U.S. by a Japanese partner...

"American Ingredients now offers a full range of amino acids to the nutritional industry through its partnership with Ajinomoto AminoScience LLC."  They are located in Raleigh, NC and they say "Our North Carolina plant is the only US manufacturer of cGMP, pharmaceutical-grade L-amino acids. Ajinomoto amino acids are of non-animal origin and of a purity that sets the standard for our industry."

The website for American Ingredients is http://tinyurl.com/2excp7
And the website for Ajinomoto is http://tinyurl.com/383lh8

I do not know if their taurine is the kind you would want to use for cats.  The "non-animal origin" raises a flag for me.  And I don't know if they sell to individuals or only to businesses.  But it is a U.S. supplier, and I thought I'd throw it out there to see if any of you know more about it??


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: DonnaD on May 06, 2007, 01:41:09 PM
Thank you Marilyn...definitely worth checking out


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: JJ on May 06, 2007, 05:48:00 PM
Thanks JJ. I know I've read about the mercury in tuna, I haven't heard of a big problem in sardines, which is what I've given my cats (only twice though, thye've mostly eaten chicken). They get some Felidae dry everyday, so they do get some taurine. I'm hoping to slowly ease off dry and homemade cooked, and eventually switch them to all raw. 
Your quite welcome Donna. My last dog I did home cook for about a year before she went to the bridge. It is very hard to do that, hold down a full time job, look for healthy food to buy, etc. I used my slow cooker quite a bit which came in real handy for making home cooked meals for my last lil furry one. My new adopted one eats Karma dry and Evangers wet. Take care.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Ticocats on May 11, 2007, 01:09:51 PM
Here's one place NOT to get them, if you want to avoid Chinese ingrediets: balenceit.com, which sells a powdered supplement intended to be added to cooked meat diets.  After a bit of dodging, the company's sales manager told me:  "Yes, some vitamins and minerals do come from China and that's why we've had it tested for melamine and it came back negative for melamine."  Of course, by now we know that melamine isn't the only problem with Chinese ingredients.

I'm still waiting for an answer to the same question from Wysong, about their AddLife and Call of the Wild supplements.

For what it's worth, the infamous ChemNutra states that:  "We dominate the pet food market in taurine" since they "represent China's major quality-assured manufacturers."  Right.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: cheetah-dog on May 13, 2007, 08:22:45 AM
I have posted this a while ago but will post it again to this thread.  I sent an email to Procaps (Andrew Lessman vitamins) asking where their ingredients were from and here is the answer they sent me. I can not really understand from what they said is yes or not.  What do you think? 

Dear Kristen,
 
Thank you for the e-mail. 
 
Everything we make is sourced from natural ingredients, and we do not add dyes, fillers, waxes, and other unnecessary additives such as melamine, rice gluten or wheat gluten. We manufacture our own products and maintain the highest quality standards in the industry. Other companies import their products made outside the U.S. We only buy product ingredients from internationally recognized, quality suppliers and we require third-party testing on their ingredients. Then we do the confirmation testing ourselves.
 
We do all of our own manufacturing with strict quality standards. This ensures there is no possibility of outside tampering or manufacturing process complications. Our quality control methods allow us to confidently state that our products are more potent, pure, reliable, and safe than any other products on the market. All in all, you are receiving manufacturer-direct products shortly after they are packaged, thus assuring the most effective, purest and freshest supplements on the market.
 
Please e-mail if you need further assistance. 
 
Best of health and thank you for choosing ProCaps Laboratories!
 
Shaun Hutchings
ProCaps Labs Web Support
 


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: caschi on May 14, 2007, 12:37:16 AM
imo, their letter seems very 'form.'  they are evasive, avoiding, indirect, etc.... 

the only thing stated clearly is that they are the ones who manufacture the end product.  they say nothing other than their suppliers of ingredients are "int'l recognized" (which is supposed to set our minds at ease.). 

the testing blah blah means nothing to me anymore.  do their tests analyze every possible contamination?  from what i understand, a test probably has to be looking for something specific to be able to identify it.

all in all, their letter, as i interpret it, says, yeah, most probably at least one their ingredients are from china.  they certainly aren't saying that their ingredients aren't from china...  they know that THAT is what we want to know...  and they don't answer that. 

thanks for contacting them and posting here!  i for one, will avoid procaps products.  hey, that might be a great board.  just a place to post responses people have gotten from companies.  we could have one thread for cat food, another for dog food, another for supplements, etc...  i'll post the suggestion for itchmo...

you've inspired me to write to 'standard process.'  they make products i just bo't from my holisitc vet.  i assume their fine, but we all know what a mistake assuming is...  i'll post what i find...



Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: cynthiak23 on May 18, 2007, 10:06:11 AM
My bottle of Taurine says "made in the U.S.A." - it is made by "NOW" (www.nowfoods.com).  Of course, made in the USA doesn't necessarily mean anything these days does it?

I called Now Foods and they said that they get their Taurine Powder from Japan. I don't think there are any companies that manufacture amino acids in the United States. Their Taurine Powder doesn't have any additives in it other than taurine, which is good.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: straybaby on May 18, 2007, 10:09:29 AM
My bottle of Taurine says "made in the U.S.A." - it is made by "NOW" (www.nowfoods.com).  Of course, made in the USA doesn't necessarily mean anything these days does it?

I called Now Foods and they said that they get their Taurine Powder from Japan. I don't think there are any companies that manufacture amino acids in the United States. Their Taurine Powder doesn't have any additives in it other than taurine, which is good.

thanks for that info! i have a feeling Japan's going to need to increase production on dietary supplements  ;)


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: cynthiak23 on May 18, 2007, 10:21:28 AM
BASF manufactures a pet nutrition premix for the pet food industry. The owner of Evanger's pet food Co. told me that they get their supplements from them. Then added, that he talked to BASF and they assured him that it didn't come from China. I'm thinking maybe he got it from the BASF Co. in the US, but they sourced their ingredients from China??? I suspect that most pet food has this premix in it.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: cynthiak23 on May 18, 2007, 10:29:29 AM

Quote
Clams do have a lot of taurine (my cat doesn't like clams!). There are charts at the following URL that list taurine content of various foods.

<http://www.serve.com/BatonRouge/taurine_chmr.htm>
[/quote]

Yes, http://www.serve.com/BatonRouge/taurine_chmr.htm is an EXCELLENT site on the subject of taurine. A "Must Read" on this subject. :)


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Eympire on May 18, 2007, 01:32:11 PM
great info on the natural taurine.


Title: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Ragdoll Lover on May 21, 2007, 06:08:57 AM
My local newspaper had the following recipe in the newspaper this weekend.
Chicken and Rice Diet (for normal dog or cat)
1/3 pound boneless chicken breast, cooked
1 egg, large, hard boiled
1/2 ounce clams, chopped in juice
1/3 cup rice, long grain, cooked
4 teaspoons vegetable or canola oil
1/8 teaspoon salt substitute - potassium chloride
4 bone meal tablets (10-grain or equivalent)
1 multiple vitamin-mineral tablet

Is this 1/3 pound pre-cooked weight on the chicken?  Would it be 1/3 cup COOKED rice?

Where do I find  multiple vitamin-mineral tablets?

Is the salt subsitute the kind you can purchase in the grocery store?

I think I read somewhere that I can buy bone meal tablets in a "human" health food store.  Is this correct? 

I am new to this stuff.  Sorry if these are stupid questions.

I do have a comment on feeding grains to cats.  I fed Innova EVO (no grains).  My cats' (10 mths & 4 yrs) creatinine level increased because they were getting too much protein (per the vet).  Maybe I need a recipe with more veggies?  Any thoughts?


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Donna on May 22, 2007, 08:24:27 AM
BASF manufactures a pet nutrition premix for the pet food industry. The owner of Evanger's pet food Co. told me that they get their supplements from them. Then added, that he talked to BASF and they assured him that it didn't come from China. I'm thinking maybe he got it from the BASF Co. in the US, but they sourced their ingredients from China??? I suspect that most pet food has this premix in it.

Just so you know, in February 2007 Nutreco took over BASF's premix businesses in eight countries, amongst them, the US and China.  So, you are not really receiving your "premix" from BASF, you are receiving it via Nutreco, which originates from The Netherlands. 


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: anna_2007 on May 22, 2007, 11:16:58 AM
Hi, your questions are NOT stupid, I've been looking into this since last year, and esp. since Feb when my kitty was first hit and am still asking a lot of basic questions, and sifting through the answers...

>>Is this 1/3 pound pre-cooked weight on the chicken?  Would it be 1/3 cup COOKED rice?

Basically it's 1 to 1, cooked, this meets the AAFCO ALLOWANCES which my vet faxed me from her Vet Text book. I posted that page here:
http://mackthetonk.blogspot.com/2007/05/vet-textbook-making-cat-food-at-home.html

My kitty does not like 50% carbs, and 0% carbs will kill. Somewhere in between is the % that works for your pet's particular heritage. Mine likes about 25% and wants carbs from a vegetable source mostly, e.g., fresh corn on the cob, or peas, carrots etc. Occassionally from lentils or chickpeas, and even more occasionally from potatoes. Although I have seen him string up a strand of pasta on his claw and draw it out, eating it.

I am trying Sojo's feline formula mixed in with his meat, and I have to tell you that Mack has been a real trooper trying everything his mommy cooked and slaved over (he sits on his chair and watches) he gobbled all this down at first, but for some reason, he went totally off it a few days later. I know it has good stuff, but some items are sourced from China (the dried fruits and veggies) so I  don't know and don't want to push him.

>>Where do I find  multiple vitamin-mineral tablets?

REGULAR HUMAN Vitamins I have been told work quite well. But which ones? Hmmm, Ask  the NOW vitamin manufacturer on this - http://www.nowfoods.com/  - they are putting together a pamphlet for their old and new customers who purchase for their pets e.g., kelp, lecithin, taurine bone meal etc. for pets, and they stress be careful.... However, I use MISSING LINK for some supplements. Apparently people have been doing this for a long time!

You could call their hotline and ask if the brochure is ready. Call others too, as NOW are only the first
I came across in my hunt.

>>Is the salt substitute the kind you can purchase in the grocery store?
I wouldn't buy it there, I'd move away from the Corporate Grocery Store... I get Maine Coast Sea Seasonings Organic Kelp Granules Low Sodium Salt aternative I purchased in an Organic Food store.

>>I think I read somewhere that I can buy bone meal tablets in a "human" health food store.  Is this correct?

Absolutely, ask the people in the store. Be careful buying a huge supply, I did and since it has some moisture in it, it caked to rock, making it hard to use, and it gives off an ammonia smell (natural!) but kitty hates it.

>>I am new to this stuff.  Sorry if these are stupid questions.
Not stupid, you are asking the smartest questions, and guess what, very few people have all the answers. It's a journey of discovery between you and your pet. Be careful with any advice that seems "extreme" to you, and let your pet help you decide (within reason!) - their instincts are fabulous.

Hint: Organic tomato soup without onion - if your pet has a problem switching over to home cooked, it's probably the unfamiliar smells. I've found putting tomato soup over it helps the whole matter along.

Another Hint: Baby foods, stage 1 where they don't put in onion which is bad. Use this baby food as a "matrix to put your fresh lightly cooked meats fish etc in, and add the additives to this.

Last hint: Cats like to eat food at their body temperature. I discovered this when my Mackie was sick, and he made a better effort to eat and drink when both his water and his food was warmed up. Less stress on his insulted body.

Good luck and don't give up!



Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Maureen on May 25, 2007, 04:05:55 PM
This is a link to the webpage for a highly recommended holistic pet store in New York City. They will deliver anywhere in the NY area or will ship. They also make up their own supplements which I'm going to investigate as I'm homecooking for my dogs and cat. I had a bad experience with a commercial supplement. Their phone # is on their site and you can check with them regarding the source of their vitamins, etc. They sell their own frozen raw food as well as some of the brands that many itchmo readers recommend.

http://1800whiskers.com/V2/template2.php?CHAPITRE=106



Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: ElenaL on May 25, 2007, 05:34:40 PM
Got it in writing from NOW foods:
 
I ask: Taurine powder
PRODUCT #: 0260
UPC: 733739002600
Taurine caps PRODUCT #: 0140
UPC: 733739001405
Would like to know if these products are  MADE in JAPAN?
Very interested in taurine NOT made in China or "sourced from USA"
distributor  that bought it from China.Does the label have a Country of
Origin?
They reply; "Yes our Taurine raw material is from Japan. We do not put Country of
Origins on our labels.

Thank you for your inquiry,
NOW Quality, Science, & Nutrition Group"
Since I got such a prompt reply I also asked about the Calcium Lactate,it's from the Netherlands.They also wrote about quality control,sourcing worldwide,any country can have bad exports,etc.A reasonable letter ,but I really just wanted Country Of Origin,and since they gave it,they have a customer.



Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Ticocats on May 26, 2007, 03:58:27 PM
Thanks ElenaL!  I recently spent $75 for a friend in Seattle to ship 2 bottles of taurine to me in Costa Rica, where I haven't been able to find any.  I asked him to try to find one not "made in China" and he sent the NOW brand.  I'm really glad to hear that it's the right brand!!


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: skynet51 on May 29, 2007, 03:13:02 PM
Celestial Pets Products. 

Celeste Yarnall, PH.D. has a proven technology with her ten (10) generations of Tonkinese cats with her products for raw food recipes.

Regards,

Kevin.

Web Site:
http://www.celestialpets.com

Recipe:
http://www.celestialpets.com/cat_dog_recipe.shtml#cat

Books:
http://www.celestialpets.com/bookinfo.shtml


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: straybaby on May 29, 2007, 03:49:34 PM
Got it in writing from NOW foods:
 
I ask: Taurine powder
PRODUCT #: 0260
UPC: 733739002600
Taurine caps PRODUCT #: 0140
UPC: 733739001405
Would like to know if these products are  MADE in JAPAN?
Very interested in taurine NOT made in China or "sourced from USA"
distributor  that bought it from China.Does the label have a Country of
Origin?
They reply; "Yes our Taurine raw material is from Japan. We do not put Country of
Origins on our labels.

Thank you for your inquiry,
NOW Quality, Science, & Nutrition Group"
Since I got such a prompt reply I also asked about the Calcium Lactate,it's from the Netherlands.They also wrote about quality control,sourcing worldwide,any country can have bad exports,etc.A reasonable letter ,but I really just wanted Country Of Origin,and since they gave it,they have a customer.



thank you!   :D  I'm checking on their bone meal. on amazon and the pitcairn book they say it's imported. but one seller i noticed said it was from US cattle and so does their website (for powdered) so i will email and find out the scoop.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: FoldMom on June 06, 2007, 07:22:53 AM
I'm new here. :)  I wanted to reply to this thread b/c I saw where someone uses NOW Foods taurine.  I just spoke w/ a rep of NOW Foods.  Their amino acids are sourced from USA and Japan, with a few exceptions.  Taurine is one of them.  It's sourced from China.  :(  I'm afraid there is very little made in the USA these days.

I make my own cat food and have for almost 10 years (raw meat).  I also feed them a nightly snack of Wellness Indoor Health dry.  It's such a gamble these days that all I can do is pray their food is safe.

Sad state we're in, isn't it?

Thanks for such a great site! Itchmo rules!

Judi & the Scottish mafia (4 awesome Scottish Folds)


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Ticocats on June 06, 2007, 08:21:00 AM
YIKES!  The NOW company tells ElenaL, in writing, that their taurine raw ingredients are from Japan, but tells FoldMom that they're from China??  Is there any company we can trust to, at least, tell the truth about their products?


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: ElenaL on June 06, 2007, 03:12:45 PM
FoldMom,could you be more detailed about your conversation?
I used the web contact form on Now's website and asked about 2 SPECIFIC taurine only products including the UPC codes.Did you ask about aminos in general including their amino blends?Taurine one of many ingredients is in a lot of supplements they sell.Perhaps someone else could get another statement in writing being very specific? Someone on Pet Connection mentioned calling and being told taurine was from Japan,which is why I contacted them in the first place.I'm going to be requesting a refund if I was lied to.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: ElenaL on June 11, 2007, 12:35:31 PM
Called NOW and talked to nutritionist about taurine.They USED to have Japanese taurine,BUT as of April 30 2007 they buy from China.When I say I have email assuring me taurine was from Japan I was told that they had probably not looked at an updated list.The rep started to give the Pro China & "all our stuff is tested" speech,but I said I don't want to hear it & that no one that has been affected by the mass pet poisonings wants to hear it.So,the search for supplements not from China continues.This just frelling blows >:(


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: dingbat on June 11, 2007, 07:36:37 PM
Quote
Is there any company we can trust to, at least, tell the truth about their products?

in short NO, I have lost faith in all of them, there always seem to be some excuse, like nobody told me we changed importers or some other BS.

Unless you make it yourself you are going to have to trust someone, who that is I don't know anymore.

I just looked up taurine on the internet, lots of places you can buy it online, but nowhere does it say where it comes from.

Wasn't there supposed to be a truth in labeling law, like they have to tell us what is in something??

db :-X


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: 5CatMom on July 27, 2007, 11:07:56 AM
Here's some info I posted elsewhere.  I'm told by Natural Live that it's made in Utah and is a natural (not synthetic) taurine.  As always, you should confirm this for yourself because everything is subject to change.

-----------------------------------------------------
Here's the Nature's Life taurine that Homegrown mentioned on Itchmo last night:
http://www.natlife.com/

The Nature's Life rep (800/247-6997) said it's made in Utah and it's a natural (not synthetic) taurine.

It can be ordered from:
http://vitanetonline.com/Natureslife.cfm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
disclamer:  All information from companies is subject to change without notice, so please verify for yourself.       


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: cynthiak23 on October 14, 2007, 10:59:11 AM

Here are a couple of items not made in China...

First Organics Dietary Supplements
Made in Canada
http://www.myvitanet.com/firstorganics.html
First Organics is the first line of USDA-certified organic supplements! They are uniquely formulated using real food sources to provide the full spectrum of nutrients as nature intended. Research demonstrates food-based nutrients are safer and more effective.

 USDA certified organic
 Real food ingredients
 Significant nutrient levels
 Vegetable capsule
 Nutrients as nature intended
 No fillers, binders or additives

Our revolutionary formulas are carefully crafted to provide natural doses of vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients, essential for generating energy, regulating immunity, and controlling aging, as well as performing numerous other functions that may improve health and quality of life. Our food-based supplements are freeze-dried without heat to preserve critical nutrients.

First Organics whole-food supplements contain significant levels of nutrients. For example, a serving of our vitamin C contains 200 mg of vitamin C derived only from whole foods — 333% of the recommended daily allowance.

Our unique approach ensures you'll benefit from the best Mother Nature has to offer. Our supplements also are free of fillers, coatings or other unnatural ingredients

I give their vitamin C to my dog and it helped her tremendously. I also take it myself.
See...
[/color] http://itchmoforums.com/veterinary-and-medications/drugresistant-staph-infection-cure-t1748.0.html;msg22333#msg22333

Natural Factors
Made in Canada
Probiotic
Acidophilus & Bifidus 10-Bill. Double Strength with Goat Milk
http://www.affordable-natural-supplements.com/10351.html

I give this to my pets. My vet said it was a good idea, and that friendly bacteria you can't overdose on. This is their web site...
http://us.naturalfactors.com/index.asp


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Geff on January 16, 2008, 09:51:29 AM
I'm intentionally bumping this thread back to the top.

This is once again becoming an issue for me; I'd like to try kitty on stage 2 baby food + a non Chinese premix if there is such a thing left on the planet. My memory is that most of the prior suggestions on this thread ended up having some China connection. Has anyone found any new sources that are 100% Chinese Poison free?


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: catbird on January 16, 2008, 10:02:47 AM
Thanks, Geff, I too would appreciate current info, especially for taurine.  What was true months ago may not be true now.  I will not use anything that has any ingredients from China that could be adulterated.  (I want real taurine, not acetaminophen!)


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: sharky on January 16, 2008, 11:05:05 AM
www.standardprocess.com

I use many many formulas by them for the cat , dog , me and mom ... Avail at natural vets or natural people drs


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Geff on January 16, 2008, 08:33:45 PM
Sharky, I don't see anything on their site that they do or don't source from China. Do you have specific information on that?


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: sharky on January 16, 2008, 08:50:23 PM
Sharky, I don't see anything on their site that they do or don't source from China. Do you have specific information on that?


All of the stuff I have on the bottle and carton  has MADE in USA.. I have 8 different items... wish my other stuff said that.... I am sure the vet said she asked and all comes from US or EU foods.. they are food based not individual item based


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Eartha on January 17, 2008, 04:21:36 PM
I use Carlson Labs (http://www.carlsonlabs.com/) fish oil (for me) and salmon oil (for my pets).  I e-mailed a representative and she confirmed: (1) all of the fish for these products was wild caught from Scandinavian waters and/or the waters near Peru/Chile, (2) their formulations are manufactured in Norway and the US, never in China, and (3) none of their bottling is manufactured or shipped from or through China either. They also test and purified for freedom from detectable mercury.  This brand has a good reputation and my experience is they live up to it.

I get my vitamin C from the Vitamin C Foundation (http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/).  Their vitamin C comes from non-GMO corn grown and processed in Europe. It's manufactured by DSM (formerly Roche) and guaranteed to be "China-free" and contain no GMOs or corn. I can actually feel the difference in efficacy between this and some of the less expensive brands.



Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Laurie on January 25, 2008, 08:11:15 PM
 On a recent trip to my local independent pet supply store, I was introduced to a new product whose ingredients are all sourced from the USA and formulated here. It is an ionic mineral supplement called Daily 72. It comes in a feline, canine, horse, goat, poultry, alpaca and llama formulas. I was told that they are releasing a formula for people soon also. It has no taste or smell and so far my cats did not even notice that it was in their food. I just started using it so I cannot testify as of yet to it effectiveness, but the manager of the store who is very much into holistic remedies said she has heard nothing but good things about this product. So I just wanted to share about something made in the US. The companies actual website is under construction but this is the link to the store where I purchased it in case anyone is interested. I will post if and when I see any improvements or changes in any of my kitties.  http://www.daily72.com/daily72/Feline.aspx


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Geff on January 26, 2008, 01:27:33 AM
Laurie, they don't mention Taurine. Do you know if Taurine is included?


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Laurie on January 26, 2008, 04:34:59 AM
  Geff, There is no taurine in it. It contains natural Ionic minerals only.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Laurie on April 01, 2008, 04:52:57 AM
  Since various supplements are being discussed on some other threads, I thought it might be a good idea to bump this one up.  :)


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: mainecoonpeg on April 01, 2008, 04:59:53 PM
www.bluebonnetnutrition.com


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: cynthiak23 on April 03, 2008, 09:09:38 AM
On a recent trip to my local independent pet supply store, I was introduced to a new product whose ingredients are all sourced from the USA and formulated here. It is an ionic mineral supplement called Daily 72. It comes in a feline, canine, horse, goat, poultry, alpaca and llama formulas. http://www.daily72.com/daily72/Feline.aspx

I am so sorry Laurie for the bad news, but I always research everything before I buy it. With all the unsafe products on the market you have to question everything. I called the Daily 72 company and asked them if their ionic minerals "unique molecular structure" are actually nano-particles and they said yes. I believe that they don't tell you this on their site because nano-particles have gotten a bad reputation. Like GMOs, Nanotechnology wasn't proven to be safe before it was allowed to be used.

Here are the reasons why I would warn people about buying anything that is manufactured into nano-particles...

Nanotech Exposed in Grocery Store Aisles

March 11, 2008
http://action.foe.org/pressRelease.jsp?press_release_KEY=343

“Nanotechnology can be very dangerous when used in food,” said report co-author Dr Rye Senjen. “Early scientific evidence indicates that some nanomaterials produce free radicals which destroy or mutate DNA and can cause damage to the liver and kidneys.”

Nanotechnology - Sweating The Small Stuff

http://organic.com.au/news/2008.03.13/
"Many substances are more toxic at the nano scale - or even become toxic at the nano scale. Why should nanoparticles in food or food packaging be any different?"

Consumers Union (Great article!)
Re: Food and Drug Administration-Regulated Products Containing Nanotechnology Materials
http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/2007/06/004667print.html
“Nanoparticles can behave quite differently from larger particles of the same material … it is vital that we determine both the positive and negative effects they might have.”

"Size and structure differences can enable nano-scale ingredients to absorb more completely in the body, delivering substantially greater doses to target organs than could otherwise be achieved with larger versions of the same chemicals. This is particularly worrisome for substances such as selenium for which there is a narrow margin between the recommended intake levels and the minimum toxic effect level, and those for which no toxic effect levels have been defined."

"Because of the hazards associated with nanoengineered materials, we are particularly concerned with exposure-intensive uses in foods (including dietary supplements) and cosmetics, products that completely lack any pre-market safety testing requirements. We are also concerned about nanoengineered ingredients in food and color additives, nano-products that require no special testing because FDA currently considers them equivalent to their non-nano counterparts. We think these products should be held to the “reasonable certainty of no harm” standard that is applied to food additives and pesticides."

N.Y. Times Cites Consumers Union & OCA--Nanotech Food is Ten Times Scarier Than Genetically Engineered
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_3112.cfm


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: Laurie on April 04, 2008, 05:28:08 AM
  Well cynthiak23, I am glad you have the spare time it takes to call various manufacturers to see if their products contain nanoparticles. From doing a little research on my own it seems as though some nanoparticles naturally occur in the environment. Others are considered to be "free" as they are techinically engineered. Nanoparticles are used in many items such as toothpaste, nutritional drinks and beer to name just a few. According to this article on Scientific American's website; "The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) currently does not specifically require nanoparticles to be proved safe but does require manufacturers to provide tests showing that the food goods employing them--whether it be beer or baby products--are not harmful". "Nanoparticles have been in food items for decades, we just never realised they were there".  http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=do-nanoparticles-in-food-pose-health-risk


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: petslave on April 20, 2008, 12:53:52 PM
Peg - I was just looking at the Bluebonnet site & their supplements are manufactured here, but I can't find that the ingredients are US sourced.  This statement makes me wonder:

"Searching the world for the finest raw materials and conducting frequent on-site inspections, our pure and wholesome ingredients are never based on price, but instead on one simple criterion: Is it the best the Earth has to offer?"

Their QC does sound good, though.  Many companies mfr here, but source from other countries.  I really would like to find supplements for myself in addition to the pets.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: SandyBeach on April 20, 2008, 09:02:17 PM
I am wondering if anyone has tried Ultimate Living's GREEN MIRACLE products? Did you check to see if they really are all from Utah and Texas? They say this on their site and on TV..I looked at the site..The Ionic trace minerals say they are from the great salt lake.....and so on but has anyone checked into the details ? If CynthiaK23 is still around I would LOVE if you checked into it. You seem to be very smart and have a lot of info I never heard of.. I would not know to check or ask on some things

Anyhow...anyone????


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: petslave on April 20, 2008, 09:13:52 PM
In researching supplements online today, I noticed Vit C, D & calcium in nano formulas.  This scares the willies out of me.  Nano particles can cross the blood brain barrier when many regular-sized chemicals are filtered out. 

Not only does this worry me in regard to the supplement entering tissues via routes it wouldn't normally take, but if the supplement is contaminated, will that mean greater toxicity & damage?  The supplements that I saw with nano particles were clearly marked as such, but who knows if that will be the case in the future.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: SandyBeach on April 20, 2008, 09:19:30 PM
Petslave thanks and I am worried on that too..I read Cynthias post and that makes it even harder now...Its hard evn finding anything that REALLY is 100% USA made and sourced from the US..I do not take vitamins myself but as I home cook more and more for my dog I kinda wanted a vitamin etc to add in case I miss the ,mark but jeeze they say USA and you call or write and get OH WELL we get the Vitamin C , B and Taurine from China...but this or that ..I do not want anything for my dog from China and do not want any nano particles...If ANYONE has time and knows their stuff can you look at their products ...mostly the Miracle Green AND the one for pets and see what you think? Thanks ahead I need to get some cake  ;D


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: petslave on April 20, 2008, 09:42:59 PM
I looked at that Vitamin C Foundation link that Eartha posted on page 4 back in Jan.  They do make that C in Europe, so I may order some of that.  One of those formulas is nano engineered, but clearly marked as such.  (wonder if they clean machines between batches!  cross contamination by nano particles!)

The First Organics line that cynthiak posted look good, but they have some added supplements in some of the formulas that may come from China.  Canada only requires 51% of the product to be Canada sourced to qualify for the Made in Canada label. 

The ingredient lists on the labels are somewhat misleading, maybe not intentionally, but it looks like there is only veggies & fruits in some that also have straight vitamins added too.  Still, it does look like good stuff with most of the goodies coming from organic produce.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: SandyBeach on April 20, 2008, 09:59:34 PM
Thanks again Petslave....I apprecaite your info....I get so tired as we all do of worrying about what to give my dog and if he will get enough of this or that...and is the meat safe and on and on and on..Then we have the vitamins..I do not worry half as much about my food as I do for my dog. He can't make choices I do it for him and feel I have to get the best...I failed with my cats..thought I did the right things and foods and all but lost all 4 .....I would Just like to be SURE 100% USA ..ORGANIC and that is about as safe as I can get ...even then  ::)

What I did like about the Green Miracle is I saw the ladies on TV who own the company and they were saying its all US and when I look at the site its all things , plants and veggies, fruits and certified organic....some things seem odd like Aloe but ?  Anyhow I listen to them on TV talk about how they get the plants , veggies and minerals under guard so nobody can mess with the supply  and that nobody can eat the amount of veggies they have in a days supply in weeks ....I would give my dog the human Green Miracle but I dunno..I will reread the other links she provided on page 4 but yes cross contamination ...happens and  :( its all frustrating


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: cynthiak23 on April 25, 2008, 08:35:19 AM
The First Organics line that cynthiak posted look good, but they have some added supplements in some of the formulas that may come from China.  Canada only requires 51% of the product to be Canada sourced to qualify for the Made in Canada label. 

Petslave,

Where did you find that info on First Organics? Can you provide a link? Since I'm using this product, I'm very interested to know how you found out exactly where their ingredients are from. In the mean time, I will call the company to see what they say. By the way, First Organics does state that it's 100% organic on the label and certified by USDA Organic. Their ingredient list does not show added supplements of any kind, other than vegetables and fruits. What are the supplements you are talking about? Hope it's all sourced from Canada.

Thanks


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: cynthiak23 on April 27, 2008, 02:27:34 PM
The First Organics line that cynthiak posted look good, but they have some added supplements in some of the formulas that may come from China.  Canada only requires 51% of the product to be Canada sourced to qualify for the Made in Canada label. 

The ingredient lists on the labels are somewhat misleading, maybe not intentionally, but it looks like there is only veggies & fruits in some that also have straight vitamins added too.  Still, it does look like good stuff with most of the goodies coming from organic produce.

OK, This is what I found. The First Organics Vitamin C, the one I recommend is 100% certified organic with no additives.

The other products they carry are 95% and 70% organic and have other non-organic things added to it. I am still waiting to hear from the company to find out where the source their ingredients.

I use this and had positive results. Highly recommended!

First Organics 100% Organic Vitamin C Complex (60 caps)
First Organics Organic Vitamin C Complex provides vitamin C in its most natural state. Organic foods such as acerola, citrus and vegetables contained in this product contain vitamin C along with a variety of phytonutrients, including anthocyanins, sulforaphan, lutein, carotenoids and others which may promote optimal health.*
Ingredients: Organic acerola cherry, organic citrus, organic blueberries, organic kale, organic Brussels sprouts, organic broccoli sprouts, organic spinach, organic carrots, organic beets. In a vegetable capsule. No fillers, binders, or additives.

The phytonutrients, including anthocyanins, sulforaphan, lutein, carotenoids listed in the Vitamin C are what is naturally found in these fruits and vegetables.
___________________________________________________________________________________

First Organics 95% Organic Vitamin E (60 caps)
Vitamin E is a powerful antioxidant that supports the immune, hormonal, cardiovascular and nervous systems. Natural vitamin E-rich foods contain at least eight different vitamin E components. These include alpha, beta, delta and gamma tocopherols and tocotrienols. First Organics Organic Vitamin E Complex contains this full spectrum of vitamin E components shown by scientific research to be as potent or more than alpha tocopherol alone.*
Ingredients: Organic peas, organic beets, organic spinach, organic kale, mixed tocopherols (from vegetable oil), mixed tocotrienols (palm fruit oil), selenium proteinate. In a vegetable capsule. No fillers, binders, or additives.

First Organics 95% Organic Immune Complex (90 caps)

In addition to the traditional antioxidants such as vitamins E and C, and beta carotene, First Organics Organic Immune Complex also contains many phytonutrients including anthocyanins, sulforaphan, lutein, carotenoids, and others, as well as tocopherols, tocotrienols, alpha lipoic acid and other nutrients that may help support the immune system.*
Ingredients: Organic acerola cherry, organic blueberries, organic broccoli sprouts, organic citrus, organic turmeric, organic ginger, organic kale, organic Brussels sprouts, organic spinach, organic tomatoes, organic carrots, mixed tocotrienols (palm fruit oil), mixed tocopherols (vegetable oil), alpha lipoic acid, L-cysteine, selenium proteinate, zinc chelate. In a vegetable capsule. No fillers, binders, or additives.

First Organics 70% Organic Daily Multiple (90 caps)

First Organics Daily Multiple, made with 70% organic ingredients, is for those who don´t always eat healthy meals, and for those whose nutritional needs may be beyond what meals can provide. This supplement provides food-source vitamins and minerals, plus therapeutic phytonutrients like sulforaphan, anthocyanins, lycopene, lutein, and more.*
Ingredients: Organic acerola cherry, organic Brussels sprouts, organic spinach, organic blueberries, organic broccoli sprouts, organic kale, organic carrots, organic tomatoes, organic citrus, calcium citrate, magnesium citrate, mixed tocopherols (vegetable oil), Brewers yeast, kelp, molybdenum, zinc citrate, copper proteinate, chromium proteinate, manganese citrate, selenium proteinate, folate. In a vegetable capsule. No other fillers, binders, or additives.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: petslave on April 28, 2008, 11:12:27 PM
On the First Organics line, I didn't see anything that said exactly where they got their ingredients.  But some formulas appear to have standard vitamins in addition to the natural food supplements in them - see the labels here:

http://www.firstorganics.net/nutritioninfo.asp

I may be wrong, but I don't think those whole foods provide all those specific vitamins on that list.  These are the ones that are most likely to be China sourced according to what we've been hearing this past year. 

Also, USDA certifies China organics, and these seem to be really on the upswing for imports.  I've noticed many of the big chain groceries' burgeoning organic lines often include China produce.  So would be nice to find out where the whole foods are coming from too.

Not to say this is a bad line of vitamins at all, cynthiak - they do look much better than most.  Just if you're trying to go totally non-China, I'd check into it more.  I broke down & got a basic multi-vit & extra C from the food co-op today.  I'm sure most of those ingredients are China-based.  The woman was very knowedgeable & reassuring about quality control and such.  Will wait a month to see if there are recalls before I start them though! 


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: cynthiak23 on April 29, 2008, 09:56:16 AM

I am still waiting for First Organics to get back to me.

I believe eating fresh whole foods (preferably organic) is best way of getting your vitamins and minerals. I feed my cats and dog fresh whole foods and they are doing great!

If you want to learn about all the benefits of eating whole foods, this is the book to get, The World's Healthiest Foods, Essential Guide for the Healthiest Way of Eating.  Each food item has recipes, cooking tips and a full list of vitamins and minerals it contains. It also explains what these nutrients do for the body. This book is wonderful!!! Their web site is at http://whfoods.org.

You can get it at Amazon.com at a reduced price...
http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Healthiest-Foods-Essential-Eating/dp/0976918544
You can also search inside the book to see what I'm talking about.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: petslave on April 29, 2008, 11:15:39 AM
I'm really trying to move to a high percentage of raw organic fruits & veggies in my diet, with a little less grains.  I agree it's best to get all the goodies from the food itself, was trying to go that way, but I feel like my diet may be a bit limited since I try to stick with in-season US grown food, other than bananas & teas.  So I'm back to wanting to take some basic multi-supplement every day. 

Realistically, the supplement industry hasn't had that many recalls, and most of those have been specialty supplements.  We probably won't run into problems if we choose companies carefully since the better companies supposedly do a lot of stringent quality control checks on ingredients. 

But of course, we've seen additives slip through in medicines that weren't picked up by tests.  Then there are the cases where they have substituted real pharma products in herbal products so everyone thinks they are getting something natural that works great.  Or it might just be they are putting fillers in that aren't effective & we are spending money on nothing.  But I'll take my probably MIC viteys & hope they don't outright harm me.


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: mainecoonpeg on April 29, 2008, 07:28:21 PM
I found this place.
Interesting way that they answer questions.
Thought you might be interested.
I have ordered some of their products.  Reasonably priced.

http://www.purecaps.com/faqs.asp


Title: Re: Where to get supplements NOT from China
Post by: kaffe on April 29, 2008, 11:24:07 PM
I found this place.
Interesting way that they answer questions.
Thought you might be interested.
I have ordered some of their products.  Reasonably priced.

http://www.purecaps.com/faqs.asp

Good one, Peg!!!  Thanks!