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Author Topic: Yoyo's Diarrhea  (Read 17838 times)
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August
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« on: November 05, 2009, 03:09:41 AM »

I just got back from a sudden trip to the vet for a fecal exam.

As you might know, around October 13th, I gave all 4 cats a new food, and a few days later, 3 of them started having digestive issues.  Yoyo, who is the most easy-going, probably ate the most of this food.  Oddly, 2 of them became rather constipated, but Yoyo started having diarrhea.

A number of days after I took them off this food, by October 20th, the 2 that were constipated became normal.  Yoyo's bowel movements started getting some form to them, and I thought all was going good.

Yoyo had a really good, normal bowel movement about a week ago.

But then things started getting soft again.  Tonight I came home from work, and Yoyo who always loves to poop as soon as he has an audience  Wink  went to do his business but oddly, he didn't cover.  I went to check and found that he had very muddy diarrhea (no form at all), and that there was a little bit of blood in it.

Needless to say, I took him to the vet right away (actually, I came here to check some info and then I went to the vet - thank goodness for Itchmo!).



I'd like your opinion on what you think would be good to do.

Yoyo's fecal slide came back with "spots of abnormal bacteria" and there were some white and red blood cells in the sample.  For now the vet is assuming it is due to the new food that didn't agree.

Yoyo's weight has not changed, his temperature is normal, his tummy felt normal, his appetite, sleeping, playing, drinking, urinating, everything is completely normal.

Because Yoyo's diarrhea has been on and off now for 3 weeks, he recommended :

1)  5 days, 2x a day of Metro Nidazol antibiotics  +  5 days, 2x a day of probiotics

He said he usually advises 3 days, but he thought 5 days would be better for Yoyo's case.  He said he'd start tonight, because the longer I wait might mean that his digestive issues would worsen, and then it would take even longer than 5 days of meds.

(Side affects of Metro Nidazol : vomiting, incontinence   Cry   )

I told him I wasn't keen on giving antibiotics unless it was completely and utterly necessary.  We talked for some time and he said that if I didn't feel comfortable giving him the antibiotics, that I could do one of these:

A)  24-hour fasting
B)  24-hour fasting + probiotics
C)  Regular eating + probiotics


I told the vet I'd research and then decide tomorrow, or even see how Yoyo is tomorrow before deciding what to do...

** As I was writing this, Yoyo suddenly started hissing and growling at the other 3 cats - I've never seen him do that before - I'm going to hope that it has something to do with his being at the vet by himself  Embarrassed  -- oh, he's licking himself and I'm wondering if it's from having the sample taken??  After we got home, we all played and had dinner, he had some diarrhea again but all else was normal for an hour...now he is sitting in his favorite spot growling very quietly but calming down **


Any thoughts on this?  I dread giving medicine.  It's also a little hard to do a fast since there are 3 others (he could stay at my Mom's place, but he's never been there without his sister and I'm afraid that might scare him).


Should I just do as the vet recommends and give him 5 days of the antibiotics + probiotics?  Urgh, I hate this.



ETA : It just occurred to me that last night I trimmed off some mats away from Yoyo's bum (probably due to diarrhea) and gave everybody some Weruva fish wet as a treat.  Could fish have disrupted Yoyo's digestion?

ETA 2 : Reading on forums about Metronidazol...mine are in small capsules and the vet suggested hiding them in the food or popping them into the back of his throat.  The probiotics are also in capsules, and can be hidden in the food or opened and mixed with food (he says cats generally like the flavor of it).
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 03:22:21 AM by August » Logged

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5CatMom
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 05:24:41 AM »

August,

Just deat with a sick kitty who (as it turned out) had giardia.  Symptoms began with occasional vomiting; 8 hours later there was diarreah and no vomiting; this progressed to diarreah and vomiting at the same time - both ends.

My kitty had blood in his stool, but I'm told that not all kitties have blood - just depends on how badly they're infected.

At first, I thought it was food as I had just opened a new can.  But in hindsight, the food wasn't a factor.

The vets examined the stool, but found nothing.  Thanks goodness one of them sent a stool sample to the lab for a giardia test.  I think the lab stains it, or something, and the giardia shows up (could be wrong about that, though).  Point is, giardia is something the lab needs to check for.

My kitty was very, very sick.  He didn't improve until his local vet stopped all the other meds, and put him on Metronidazole.

With the Metronidazole, you should see improvement very quickly.  My Tony improved within 24 hrs.

If your kitty doesn't get better fast, you may want to contact your vet.

You wrote, ""Yoyo's fecal slide came back with "spots of abnormal bacteria" "".  Is the lab able to identify the bacteria - there are different ones and some are spiral (campylobacter) and some not spiral.

See if you can find out specifically which bacteria the lab found.

In case of emergency, are you able to contact your vet after normal office hours?  With a sick kitty and the weekend coming up, it's so very important to have a contact plan for over the weeked (we learned the hard way).

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.  Stayed glued to your vet on this one - a little diarreah can quickly become a flood of poo.  We wound up in the ER last Saturday with bloody, infected diarreah and a kitty that was fading fast.

Hugs,

5CM
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What is man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected - - - Chief Seattle

We are the caretakers of our creatures . . . the peacekeepers of our planet
August
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 05:52:07 AM »

5CM,

I'm so glad your kitty is doing better.  How scary that must have been.

As I type, Yoyo is purring loudly, kneading on my cozy robe that I put out for him to sleep on.   Cheesy

Yoyo has not thrown up at all, and he's acting completely as usual.....just has diarrhea (and I found a trace of blood in it this evening).

The vet I use is a 10-minute taxi ride and is open on the weekends, and also has an emergency 24-hr open facility.

>With the Metronidazole, you should see improvement very quickly.  My Tony improved within 24 hrs.

So are you saying you think it would be good to give Yoyo the Metronidazole and also the priobiotic 2x a day for 5 days?

He was having soft stools, and then diarrhea, then things got firmer, then he had a fantastic poop, then he got soft again and then today was just goop.  I wish I hadn't given him fish last night in case that might have upset his tummy in any way. 

I feel like if I just let him work it out that things will get better,...but the vet is thinking his bacteria-fighters are losing the battle and could use the team of meds.  Hmm, I guess I could call tomorrow to ask if they checked if the bacteria is spiral or not...?  But would that change the answer to giving him the antibiotic or not?
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lesliek
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2009, 05:57:10 AM »

August- I agree with 5catmom,ask what bacteria were found. The med is the 1 commonly used for any issues like this & although there are side effects possible thats true of any antibiotic. It could have been something in the food, or a sudden problem with fish but with the fact that it only came back for Yoyo I think you need to use the meds. I would do the probiotics for all them in case it was the old food or the switch, just to avoid further problems. I also think having an emergency # with the weekend coming up is a good idea. Remember to get some baby food in case you need to syringe feed him after the pill or if he stops eating. I also wouldn't use either food that he just had until you are sure he's ok. That way if there is a reactiopn to it you will know its not something else. Hope the meds clear this up & he is back to normal soon !
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JustMe
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2009, 06:22:08 AM »

August,

My 19-year-old, CRF cat, Elvis, just finished a 7-day course of metronidazole (Flagyl).  He was put on it due to loose stools twice a day for several weeks.  Within 3 days, his stools were firming up.  His dose was once a day.  He only weighs 5 pounds.  Dose varies with weight of cat.  Have also treated many of my other cats and dogs in the past with Flagyl (metronidazole) without problems.  You must follow the dosage and schedule your vet gives you.  It's better to give it with food rather than an empty stomach.  Great that you have capsules.  Don't break them up or let cats chew on the capsules as it is a horrid tasting medicine, but give capsules whole.   I usually give a little food before and the rest immediately after pills/capsules.

I have also noticed when my cats have a little blood in their stool they don't bury it either. 
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Mark T
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2009, 06:32:46 AM »

I am interested to hear what others feel about your vet's suggestion of fasting for 24 hours. I have never heard of this method, quite the reverse, my understanding is that withholding food from a cat induces further stress to an already stressed system, especially if it also results in less water intake.

How old is Yoyo?

I presume you have ruled out coccidia. The symptoms you describe would fit. Anyway it usually affects kittens under 6 months, though it can occasionally affect older kitties. The treatment for coccidia is different to that of bacterial infections. Incidentally, it can take several tests to get a positive result.

Hope this is easily cleared up.
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Offy
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2009, 06:45:56 AM »

Dollywad had a really bad round of this. Even with probiotics, prebiotics & Flagyl nothing worked. The salve on her raw red bottom gave her some relief from the pain.

Vet recommended a Bland Diet to see it if helped.

Well, the commercial food reformulation got her in the "mess".

Homemade chicken & rice got her out of the "mess".

The commercial formula changed and she can no longer tolerate the brand & their fish meal & other changes to it.  Recently it started again with a new lot of Friskies T&G ..and I have to assume it was a fish change(supplier) in it too. Again, the homemade chicken got her back on track in 48 hrs.

I also got some K-P & Peticillan (kaolin & pectin) which is formulated for cats from PetSmart. Haven't used it, didn't need to after stopping the food. In Sept, it took several days to get that Precise brand out of her system.

BTW: Dollywad screamed & hissed at all of us. Loudly - especially right after using the litterbox.  Even if I just looked at her.  Take a look at YoYo's bottom and see if it's raw & red.  Dolly's was. She was in Pain, major pain - her tummy & her bottom
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 06:49:52 AM by Beyond Pissed » Logged

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August
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2009, 07:00:01 AM »

I just gave Yoyo a Metronidazole.  He got up to get a snack, and ate some, so I thought it was my chance.  I slipped it in his wet food but of course he didn't eat it.   Undecided

So I gave it to him manually and he swallowed it (he's drinking a ton of water now and is a little pissed at me).

But I can't get him to take the probiotic.  The vet told me that I could open the probiotic and sprinkle it on the food because that one tastes good, but Yoyo won't eat it.

Urgh!  How can I get him to eat it?  

Midnight in Japan.....no Japanese baby foods are cat-friendly.


Oh!  More posts - thank you thank you!

Yoyo is 2 years old.  Yes, his little bum bum is red, but I didn't notice that it was red before the vet.  My guys won't touch human food.   Undecided


Thank you so much for all this help.  
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August
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2009, 07:09:54 AM »

I just called the vet emergency center.

She said there are both straight and spiral bacteria in Yoyo's fecal test.


Yoyo is now in the closet angry and sleeping.  I would really like for him to eat this probiotic that is now mixed in with his wet.....the vet said the wet is okay with the probiotic for a while, so if he'll just come out to eat it...but he's pretty angry with me, I think...  Embarrassed
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alek0
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2009, 07:53:06 AM »

Metronidazole in the food usually won't work, too bad taste.

For probiotic, have you tried sprinkling freeze-dried chicken on top of that? In any case, I wouldn;t worry too much about probiotic yet, important is to get it at the end of the antibiotic course.

Hope Yoyo gets better soon. Metronidazole is in my experience one of the worst things to give (if you miss and they don't swallow they start foaming) but all three tolerated it well and giardia problem (Sophie came with giardia and other two got it) was resolved and they had no side effects from the medication. But it is no fun to give it to 3 cats for 10 days.

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August
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2009, 07:59:40 AM »

I was able to give Yoyo the Metronidazole manually (I first slipped it in the wet he was eating because it's in a capsule so I was hoping he'd lap it down but he didn't).  It's the probiotic that he won't eat (and that is now mixed in with a tbsp of wet food).

The vet suggested that if he doesn't come out to eat this wet food mix, that tomorrow morning I should give Yoyo the Metronidazole and the probiotic manually.  (Our meds course is one Metronidazole + one probiotic morning and night for 5 days.)

I can't imagine how I'm going to do this two times a day for the next 4 days.  (Urgh, Alek0, 3 cats for 10 days must have been awful.)

It's 1am and Yoyo doesn't seem inspired to come out of the closet.  I hope he'll come out and I'll try the chicken flakes on it.  But if he doesn't come out, I don't want the other cats to eat the medicated wet......I guess I'll wait a bit longer and then trash it -- or will it keep in the fridge?


>I have also noticed when my cats have a little blood in their stool they don't bury it either.  

That's really interesting, JustMe.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 08:11:00 AM by August » Logged

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alek0
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2009, 08:07:55 AM »

Probiotic shouldn't matter if other cats eat it, if it is only probiotic and nothing else. Supplement, not a medication as such. It will keep in the fridge, but he'll likely not eat it cold.

I'm off to bed early to work tomorrow, hope Yoyo feels better soon.
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August
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 08:17:11 AM »

Thanks so much Alek0.

Oddly, my guys like cool wet more than warmed.  But I usually take out wet from the fridge and let it sit for 20 min or so before feeding them leftovers.

>It will keep in the fridge

In that case maybe I'll put it in the fridge and serve it to Yoyo in the morning.



Does anyone have any suggestions for giving pills after meals but having it so that they don't associate eating with something icky?  I was thinking from tomorrow morning I won't do meds at meal time, but rather after.  I was thinking I'd take him into the bathroom to give him his 2 pills since they spend the least amount of time in the bathroom, and when they've been there in the past, it's usually to trim off a mat or wash off someone's pantaloons.  Does that sound like a good plan?


It's 2am and Yoyo came out to say hi.   Cheesy   So we had a little freeze-dried chicken party - of course as soon as the flakes were out for Yoyo and his medicated wet, everybody else wanted in on the action.  So I gave a tiny to Mooch, a tiny to Lulu, a tiny to Chami, a tiny to Yoyo and made the round, then did them all again but put Yoyo's on the wet food.  He only ate about 1/3 of the probiotic wet, but that's better than nothing!  I'm off to bed now.   Smiley
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 08:54:26 AM by August » Logged

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5CatMom
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2009, 09:44:22 AM »

August,

Whatever your vet told you to do would be best, IMO.  At least maybe start with that, and then see how your kitty does.

WRT probiotics, my kitties won't accept food with probiotics sprinkled on, or mixed in.  I think they are put off by the smell as it's an odor they aren't used to.

For Tony, I took about a teaspoon of Beechnut Chicken & Chicken Broth baby food ("stage 1 meal") mixed in the FortiFlora probiotics, and added just a bit of water.  Then sucked it up in a 3ml syringe and gave him a squirt.  I repeated the process every couple of hours.  At the time, Tony wasn't eating and he wouldn't accept more than 2 syringes at one time.  But during the day, I was able to get most of the probiotic into him.

In Tony's case, I'm not sure the probiotic was helping him.  The last vet we saw, the one who got him fixed didn't give him any probiotic, or Baytril, or Reglan, or anything else - just the metronidazole.

According to the six vets we recently worked with, five were OK with metronidazole (at the proper dosage) and one didn't "like" it because it "can cause neurotoxicty".  The vet who said this was newly out of vet school, so her practical experience is limited.  

Got to say, my local vet/clinic (an older gentleman who's been a vet for 25 years, and his Dad started the practice before him) uses metronidazole, and the practice has used it for years.

According to my local vet, metronidazole is a good antibiotic for GI problems.  Used at the correct dosage, it's not overly strong, and has anti-inflamatory benefits that help to sooth the GI tract.

(FYI, metronidazole is used to treat some tropical fish diseases, and aquarists consider it to be a "safe" drug.  I've used it several times.)

We know that too strong antibiotics can wipe out the gut flora which makes the GI upset and diarreah worse.

If you decide the have a stool culture done (it takes a few days to get the results), the lab can determine the amount of gut flora present in the sample.

Tony's culture indicated that his gut flora was "reduced", so my local vet didn't want to give him strong antibiotics.  Tony had previously been on Baytril injections, and then on IV Ampicillan - both of which likely reduced amount of gut flora, according to my vet.

Anyway, if you have kitty's stool examined by a lab, and also have a culture done by a lab (that's two different tests), you should be able to determine what's causing the problem.

I assume that you've already ruled out intestinal worms and stomach worms.

Regarding "resting the gut" when they vomit (and I've heard that a lot lately), IMO it depends.  

Is the vomiting a "primary" symptom, or a "secondary" symptom.  You don't want to "rest" them into liver failure.  As Tony's illness progressed, he had diarreah which was quickly followed by vomiting.  As my vet explained, when they have diarreah, the gut sends an electrical stimulus to the stomach which causes the stomach to void it's contents.  Sort of a defensive reponse in which the body wants to void everything, but this is different from "simple" nausea.

With Tony, I found that limiting his food choices was best.  For now, he's eating Royal Canin Intestinal HE (dry) and Royal Canin Venison Formula Veterinary Diet (canned).  LOL, yes I know, but something's better than nothing when they don't want to eat.  The RC Intestinal HE is highly palatable for sick kitties (the best I've found), but I don't want to know what's in it  Grin.

Hope this helps.  I'm no expert, that's for sure, but the past week has been a real education.

Good luck.

5CM
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 10:40:15 AM by 5CatMom » Logged

What is man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected - - - Chief Seattle

We are the caretakers of our creatures . . . the peacekeepers of our planet
5CatMom
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2009, 09:58:03 AM »

August writes, "Does anyone have any suggestions for giving pills after meals but having it so that they don't associate eating with something icky?"

When mine are sick, the policy is "tough love", as I don't like to give meds without food.  Metronidazole on an empty stomach may cause vomiting.

After they're well, we kiss and purr and all is quickly forgiven Grin.

Hugs,

5CM
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What is man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected - - - Chief Seattle

We are the caretakers of our creatures . . . the peacekeepers of our planet
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