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Author Topic: need help interpreting Sophers lab work  (Read 15226 times)
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Sandi K
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« on: September 15, 2009, 07:02:58 PM »

Hi, we took Sophers in today for overdue labwork and the vet called and said that her creatinine is above normal.  I think the norm is 2.2 and hers came in at 2.9.  I forgot to get a copy of her labwork but they also said her bun level was below normal but I dont have that number....Sophers is only a little over 2 years old so Im not understanding why her creatinine would be elevated and I have no experience with kidney stuff.  Can I ask for some thoughts and ideas on this?  She had been doing good until July when she had a 3 weeks bout of diahrrea (with occasional blood in it) which stopped when I removed one of her foods.  Then her stools firmed up but then turned black and tests showed trace blood in her stools.  She has lost a little weight, she had gotten up to 11 lbs 10 oz and now is at 10 lbs 15 oz as of today.  She is eating good and no other blaring symptoms.   Can gingivitis cause kidney issues?  What other things could cause a 2 year old kitty to have elevated creatinine.....?  Im perplexed....  

I forgot to add that we are having a urinalysis done next and I will get a copy of the lab report so I have all the numbers, levels etc maybe by tomorrow...
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 07:10:18 PM by Sandi K » Logged
Mandycat
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2009, 08:38:06 PM »

Sandi,
      I am sure you are understandably concerned about Sopher's lab results.  When you get the whole report, it would be helpful to post everything because there are other things to look at that may give more clues.  But, just based on the BUN and Creatinine, the low BUN could indicate a liver dysfunction since that is where the BUN is formed.  So, it might be helpful to know what her liver enzymes are.  GI problems would result in a high BUN, not low, so the trace blood in the stool may not be the cause of the BUN number.  The high Creatinine would indicate a kidney involvement, but I believe that, other than renal failure, the cause could also be a urinary tract infection.  Mandy's Creatinine was at the high normal range when she had the UTI and bladder stones.  Subsequent testing has shown that her "normal" range is actually low to middle, both on and off the methimazole for the Hyper-T.  Creatinine is not affected by GI problems at all.  I can't make any guesses as to the problem, but things may be clearer when all the results are in.  What I'm posting here are just a few thoughts as to what may or may not be affecting the results.  Did you have both Chemistry and CBC done?  If so, try to post all results as well as the U/A results.  Hope that these are just little variations that mean nothing at all.


Here is a good website that gives information about lab results and what they might mean.

         http://www.broadwayvh.com/site/view/83223_LaboratoryAssessmentDescriptions.pml   
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 09:34:48 PM by Mandycat » Logged
Mandycat
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2009, 09:51:45 PM »

Sandi,
     Apparently, the answer is "yes" Gingivitis can cause kidney damage when the bacteria travels through the bloodstream to distant organs like the kidneys.  It can also affect the liver.  Maybe this is a clue to Sopher's problem. 

        http://www.petside.com/health/petvet/dental-disease-feline.php
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Sandi K
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2009, 10:46:45 PM »

Thank you Mandy and Poco.  Mandy, those are some interesting links, that one that has the list of items is a great one to have.  And the one about the dental info is good too.  It makes me wonder if it might be gingivitis related, we had backed off of brushing her teeth while DH was out town visiting family....but Im wondering if labwork would show that in other ways besides just the creatinine, would it show in white cell count or anything else like that if it was bacteria related?  Could the trace blood in her stool be from her gingivitis?  More to think about...and I will feel terrible if its that as its something I could have prevented if I hadnt backed off the brushing.  If it is that, is there permanent damage or will it resolve if we can get it back under control?  Ive also seen links showing it could be due to high protein but that confuses me as I thought thats what cats eat is high protein...she has been on just FF while Ive been trying to find a new dry food that she will eat...

Thank you, I will post the lab info as soon as I get it and also the UA info once we get a sample taken in, hopefully tomorrow.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 11:06:32 PM by Sandi K » Logged
Sandi K
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2009, 11:08:41 PM »

Yes Poco, we have used Biotene off and on with warm salt water in the past for Sophers, Im kicking myself because we had her gingivitis under control but now might have let it cause problems by backing off the brushing....
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Mandycat
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2009, 11:17:40 PM »

Sandi,
     Don't be so hard on yourself.  If the vet thinks that the gingivitis is the root of the problem, getting it under control again will at the very least prevent further problems, and perhaps even resolve these current issues.  We can't undo the past, but can move forward to improve what we can in the future.  You don't really have a diagnosis yet from the vet - just some speculations based on the little we do know at this time.  Sophers loves you no matter what and knows that you would not do anything to purposely hurt her.   Smiley   Kiss
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Sandi K
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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2009, 06:29:50 AM »

Yeah thanks Mandy, I know its too early to tell.  I was thinking last night, the blood trace in her stool connected to gingivitis doesnt quite make sense in that she never had that when we first got her and her gingivitis was at its absolute worse.....it isnt near as bad right now as it was in the beginning....a different vet did the fecal and told us it was normal to see blood trace in their poo....I had never heard that..so I need to make sure our regular vet knows there was blood trace, she might not have seen that test result as she had been out of the office at the time....
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bug
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2009, 06:47:41 AM »

Sandi,

Pip had a blood test that revealed a higher than normal creatinine, but a normal BUN. I had noticed that she was drinking more than usual and thought maybe she was developing diabetes so I took her in and that was the result. As soon as I stopped brushing her teeth with the Virbac toothpaste, the whole thing came to a halt. I don't know what on earth was in it to cause her to react the way she did, but it hasn't happened since.

Is there something else that you might be giving Sophers that she could be reacting to?
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My little babies, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
Sandi K
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2009, 07:21:35 AM »

bug, I have been thinking about it for a long time and at the point she had her problems in July and since then we hadnt been brushing her teeth with anything and she wasnt drinking more water than normal...her diet had been the same as it had for over a year and she was doing well on that, gaining weight etc. 
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bug
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RIP little angel Katey


« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2009, 07:32:10 AM »

Pip has had dental problems since day one and she still has gingivitis -- will be starting Biotene soon. I'm always reluctant to start something new with her as she has allergies. She's nine now and I haven't seen anything that tells me her gum problems are affecting her kidneys or heart. Sophers is two. Unless she has something like plasmacytic gingivitis (where her teeth would be falling out by now), I don't know that it is a good explanation. My mother's cat, Loki, had all her teeth extracted before she was two because of this condition. It is terrible -- drooling, rotting, loose teeth, raging gums and pain. Even she doesn't have kidney issues.

I guess anything's possible, but I wouldn't stop at that explanation. I'd dig a little deeper.
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My little babies, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
Sandi K
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 07:36:23 AM »

Yeah I agree, its not matching what I would expect to see if it was her gingivitis.  We are patiently (or impatiently) awaiting the urine sample....you know how it goes, a watched pot never boils...
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Fizzy1
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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 07:45:00 AM »

Hope you can get some answers (and pee!) soon.    Kiss to Sophers.
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I once asked a four year old what the secret of life was.  "Feed the kitties," she said, "Feed the kitties."--Ellis Felker
bug
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RIP little angel Katey


« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2009, 08:17:04 AM »

Yep, hang in there. I hope there's a rational explanation for this.
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My little babies, you'll always be in my heart. Mom will see you later. Look after each other, ok?
lesliek
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Trooper,Remy & Fragile


« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2009, 08:21:17 AM »

Sandi- I think I would wait til seeing full results before worrying too much. Sophers has been sensitive before to any diet or home related changes. Maybe a combo of no kibble & Daddy being away is stressing her ? I would definitely rule out any problems,but I'm wondering if increased brushing & normal home routine may not make a difference ? Look at what I went through with all 5 of mine going through not eating,poo problems & UTI with just more stress here & me being gone a lot. Oreo has had terrible teeth since a kitten & the biotene gel & CoQ10[30mg 2x daily] have helped that. Maybe ask the regular vet about that when you have the urinalysis done.But his #'s have always been fine,maybe with Sophers other previous problems its just hitting her a little harder. You might want to print out info on milk thistle & tinkle tonic to have the vet look at also. Its very possible this will resolve given some normal home time & maybe some supplements.[I don't give tt & milk thistle together,1 am & 1 pm or alternating days. The CoQ10 doesn't seem to react with anything else.]Its also helpful for heart health,which can be a concern with severe gingivitis.
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Sandi K
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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2009, 08:40:12 AM »

Thanks Leslie.  DH  has been home for about a month now so I dont think she has been having any upset lately, her routine has been pretty steady for quite awhile.  Thanks for the Biotene info, we have used that in the past with lots of success.  We'll have to see what the labs and UA look like and take it from there.   
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