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Author Topic: Does Stress effect elevated Bun and Creatnine?  (Read 13232 times)
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4leggersMom
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Skeeter


« on: January 27, 2008, 10:24:22 AM »

Hello,

I brought my Fathers 11 year old Maine Coon into our home after my Fathers passing about a year ago.  He is a welcome addition to our family of 2 Labs and 1 Orange kitty.

Last year I had his teeth cleaned and his pre-op showed slightly elevated Bun and Creatnine counts, however Vet said his urine was concentrated so he thought he was O.K.

Last week took him in for his annual, they ran a senior panel and his Bun was 37 (high end of range is 34) and Creatnine was 2.7 (high end of range 2.3).  His urine is still concentrated (which Vet said was a good sign).  Maine Coone was adopted by my parents when he was one (found him in the back of their Dessert home).  He has always been very scared of strangers and the Vets.  

Vet is recommending a wet diet (he has been on dry food his entire life).  He is currently on Nature's Variety, I switched to the canned yesterday, doing well on it.  He has to go back in for more tests in 2 weeks to see if canned food has made a difference if counts are related to dehydration.

My question is can stress play into elevating those counts?  I will go back and have further tests, but just wanted more information from any of you in case those counts are still elevated.

Thank you!

Skeeter's Mom
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JustMe
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My RB Angels Elvis, 1991-2010, and Twit, 2001-2010


« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2008, 10:52:02 AM »

I don't know about stress affecting BUN/creatinine, but it can affect other tests.

This is interesting.  It says dental disease may be linked to the development of CRF.  I've never read that before.  My 17-year-old cat had tooth extractions in the spring (he already had been diagnosed with CRF for a few years)

http://www.felinecrf.com/tests0.htm

He had slightly elevated BUN and creatinine in the spring.  Switched him to all canned, and his BUN and creatinine levels reduced a little with one being in the normal range now.  He is on Wellness grain-free and Nature's Variety Instinct.  I don't know if they played a role or not.  He still drinks some water, but not as much as he did when he was on dry food.  But he is definitely better hydrated.  His fur softened.

I hope your cat's values improve.  Keeping fingers crossed.  Keep us posted.

A note about check-ups:  It might be a good idea to switch to checkups at least every 6 months since kitty is now over 10-years-old,particularly since kitty had the elevated BUN/creatinine levels.  I start doing 6 month exams on my cats and dogs once mine reach 7-years-old. 

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Eventually they will understand,
Replied the glorious cat
For I will whisper into their hearts
That I am always with them
I just am....forever and ever and ever.
Poem for Cats, author unknown

"A kitten in the animal kingdom is like a rosebud in a garden", author unknown
sharky
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2008, 11:33:58 AM »

It can be to a degree according to three different vets..

I do agree with Justme about the twice a yr... though after two animals in a row with chronic illness I take my 3 yr old girl in twice a yr too...
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kittylyda
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2008, 02:27:42 PM »

I don't think there is any solid documentation about stress affecting BUN and Creatinine, but stress can disrupt so many things that it would not surprise me at all.  Especially if your kitty does not tolerate going to vet very well.  However, I can tell you that I have a cat and she gets really stressed out going to the vet but that has not seemed to affect her BUN and Creatinine tests, since the last few have looked really good.  We have had several of these in the past year due to the recall.

Some vets believe that all older cats experience some degree of renal failure or renal insufficiency.  If your cat was on an all dry diet for most of his life, maybe that has something to do with the elevated levels along w/his age.  It will be interesting to see how he responds to the all wet diet.  Good luck, I hope it helps him out.

You might want to ask the vet if subcutaneous hydration (fluid therapy) might help.  I have a cat who is about 20 years old and she is experiencing test results very close to what you are seeing in your cat.  I give fluids at home twice a week and it really helps her.
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mainecoonpeg
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2008, 03:31:17 PM »

Tissue dehydration can affect BUN and Creatinine levels.  Even though the urine is still concentrated, something as simple as dehydrated skin can cause a slight elevation.  Happens to me every time I get bloods in the winter.  Apparently, I don't drink enough in the winter.

Anyway, a sure fire way to see if the skin, the largest organ of the body, has enough hydration, is the pinch test.  For humans, pinch the skin on the back of the hands.  If it snaps right back, you are okay.  If it's a little slow, more hydration is necessary.  Same holds true for fur kids.  Pinch the fur and skin together on a fur kid and let go.  Should snap back quickly.

And JustMe, absolutely true about dental disease affecting kidneys in both animals and humans.  I have read many studies, for both species that say it is the case.  I have also seen first hand, being in the dental profession, what dental disease can do to all the other organs as well, including the heart.  It makes sense if you think about it.

The filthiest part of the body is the mouth.  Gingivitis is a proliferation of oral bacteria, which are then trapped below the gumline, unable to be accessed by toothbrush or mouthwash.  If allowed to accumulate to out of control proportions, the bcateria can easily enter the bloodstream and set up house in the next organ it finds.  One very interesting human study that I liked, recommended co-enzyme Q-10 at a dosage of 300 mg. 2x daily.  My husband had bad gingivitis and went 4 times a year for cleanings....scaling and root planing.  He wouldn't let me clean and scale......LOL.....I guess I frighten him with sharp instruments.  Afetr about a year of co-Q, he has improved so well, that as of his appointment last Thursday, his hygienist cut him back to 2 times a year.  She was very impressed with his progress.

Gizmo was on 60 mg of co-Q10 since the age of 5, when he was first diagnosed with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.  At the age of 5 he had lost all of his upper and lower anterior teeth, which the vet said was no big deal, because those teeth are hardly used.  Big deal to me, based on profession Wink.  Ejection fraction for Giz from echocardiogram, at age 5 was 78%, at age 10 it was 93%.  I'm sure it was the co-Q.

And as an aside, anyone taking a statin drug should be taking at least 300-600mg/day.  The pharmacists will usually tell you, but the MD's generally don't.
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Orange Fuzzball
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We miss you KD


« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2008, 04:22:41 PM »

Hi 4leggers, welcome to Itchmo.

I have no idea if stress affects these tests - my cat KD who has CRF is always stressed at the vet's, so I don't really have a baseline. But an all-wet diet is definitely a good idea. KD does better when she's more hydrated, and it's much easier for her to get fluids from her food than other ways. She was also on mainly dry food for most of her life, but eats only canned now.

I'm guessing from your vet's reaction that those test results aren't too bad? I don't know how KD's compare to that, as we use different units in Canada and I'm not familiar with US units. In any case, good luck, and hoping those values come down!
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kaffe
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2008, 06:29:52 PM »

Tissue dehydration can affect BUN and Creatinine levels.  Even though the urine is still concentrated, something as simple as dehydrated skin can cause a slight elevation.  Happens to me every time I get bloods in the winter.  Apparently, I don't drink enough in the winter.

Anyway, a sure fire way to see if the skin, the largest organ of the body, has enough hydration, is the pinch test.  For humans, pinch the skin on the back of the hands.  If it snaps right back, you are okay.  If it's a little slow, more hydration is necessary.  Same holds true for fur kids.  Pinch the fur and skin together on a fur kid and let go.  Should snap back quickly.

And JustMe, absolutely true about dental disease affecting kidneys in both animals and humans.  I have read many studies, for both species that say it is the case.  I have also seen first hand, being in the dental profession, what dental disease can do to all the other organs as well, including the heart.  It makes sense if you think about it.

The filthiest part of the body is the mouth.  Gingivitis is a proliferation of oral bacteria, which are then trapped below the gumline, unable to be accessed by toothbrush or mouthwash.  If allowed to accumulate to out of control proportions, the bcateria can easily enter the bloodstream and set up house in the next organ it finds.  One very interesting human study that I liked, recommended co-enzyme Q-10 at a dosage of 300 mg. 2x daily.  My husband had bad gingivitis and went 4 times a year for cleanings....scaling and root planing.  He wouldn't let me clean and scale......LOL.....I guess I frighten him with sharp instruments.  Afetr about a year of co-Q, he has improved so well, that as of his appointment last Thursday, his hygienist cut him back to 2 times a year.  She was very impressed with his progress.

Gizmo was on 60 mg of co-Q10 since the age of 5, when he was first diagnosed with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.  At the age of 5 he had lost all of his upper and lower anterior teeth, which the vet said was no big deal, because those teeth are hardly used.  Big deal to me, based on profession Wink.  Ejection fraction for Giz from echocardiogram, at age 5 was 78%, at age 10 it was 93%.  I'm sure it was the co-Q.

And as an aside, anyone taking a statin drug should be taking at least 300-600mg/day.  The pharmacists will usually tell you, but the MD's generally don't.

This is IMMENSELY interesting and helpful!  Thanks Peg!  Last night I was reading the website of Feline Instincts where the founder has a kind of"blogg" about how her cats' are doing on the raw food diet and her supplements.  One of her older kities has been diagnosed with some degree of renal insufficiency and the other kitties with this or that... she listed supplements that she used with good results:

1. Rena Food tablets or Feline Renal Support tablets by Standard Process
2. Renal Essentials by VetriScience (for kidney support)
3. Milk Thistle by Liv R Actin or any other good brand (liver support)
4. Cardio Plus tablet by Standard Process
5. Coenzyme Q 10 by VetriScience or any other good brand (or heart and gums)
6. Colostrum by Symbiotics only (for immune system)

Maybe 4leggers can use one of the renal support supplements for her maincoon in addition to switching to a wet food diet?

BTW,  BIG WELCOME 4leggers!
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4leggersMom
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Skeeter


« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2008, 07:55:21 AM »

Justme, Sharky, kittylyda, Peg, OrangeFuzzball, Kaffe:

Thank you so much for sharing all your valuable information.  Justme, that article on CRF was excellent.  Our Vet told me about the Dental connection to CRF last week, as I was concerned that three of my animals had gotten dental cleanings and they wanted to see them every ten months for re-evaluation.  It wasn't the checkup I was concerned about, but putting them under frequently.  Peg, I am going to have my husband read your response, as he has gum related issues.  

Again, THANK YOU, will post next blood results after having Skeeter on wet food.  
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mainecoonpeg
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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2008, 02:45:19 PM »

4leggers,
Welcome to Itchmo and wishing you and yours, 2 and 4 leggers, all the best Cheesy

And Kaffe thank you for the listing of supplements from the Feline Instincts site Grin
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Orange Fuzzball
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We miss you KD


« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2008, 09:10:49 PM »

Any news on those test results, 4leggers? How's Skeeter?
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jenny
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2008, 05:56:04 PM »

Hi - I am not sure about the elevated BUN, but my cat Wilson had his creatinine tested last summer (he was 4) and it was also 2.7.  I asked the vet if we could retest using the outside lab and do the full senior profile.  Creatinine was elevated again, but BUN, phosphorus, and urine specific gravity were all normal.  Wilson is a Maine Coone and it was discussed that young, large muscular cats can sometimes have naturally occurring high creatinine - I think the emphasis more on the large/muscular part but I may be wrong (so I'm not 100% sure if at sometime it should trend down).  So, at this time, we will just monitor. Wilson does not display any symptoms of CRF. Do you know if his creatinine was tested previously for any baseline?  Wilson was switched to high protein canned food last summer and the high creatinine was after this switch (it was high normal prior to the switch) - his USG did shift down slightly but not much (i.e. >1.050 to 1.046) which I think can be accounted for just by his change in food.

Also from the urine culture is there any protein or red blood cells in the urine?

Wilson is also terrified of the vets and takes alprazalam to calm him down prior to any visit.  He was so bad that it caused crystals in his urine just from the trip to the vet.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 05:58:40 PM by jenny » Logged
GoingNUTZoverthis
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2008, 06:53:29 AM »

I remember when I was going through the BUN/CRE tests with Geisha and Topaz, I read some articles that suggested that it should be done around the same time of day each time, and that the CRE level may be elevated a little if they have just eaten.  Some kind of protien thing I guess.  If you google it you can probabaly find one ot he articles I read that in.

I was told however that sugar can definitely elevate from stress while waiting to be seen by the vet.
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4leggersMom
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Skeeter


« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2008, 07:47:04 PM »

I received a second set of  test results for Skeeter (Maine Coon) one month after previous test.  His Creatinine stayed the same 2.7, his Bun went up a little from 37 to 38.  Jenny, thank you for mentioning what is going on with Wilson (Maine Coon) interesting, I will talk to my Vet about it.  Skeeter's phosphorus was normal at 3.1, and his Urine Specific Gravity was 1.049 (normal).  Since I put him on 100% wet food for a month prior to last test, Vet said elevated numbers can no longer be attributed to dehydration.  He feels he is in the "insufficient renal" stage of CRF, however we scheduled him for an Ultra Sound to rule out stones, or cancer.  Skeeter has also lost weight.  A year ago he was 13 lbs 14 oz, a month ago he was 12 lbs 14 oz, and in the last month he lost 1/2 lb.  The last weight drop may be from switching him to wet food, I don't know.  Is it O.K. to give a little dry food on top of a mainly wet diet? 

GOINGNUTZOVER, thank you for mentioning what you found when going through tests for Geisha and Topaz. 

If this is indeed the beginning stages of CRF, is there some time table that cats progress to CRF?  This is hard for me because Skeeter was my parent's cat, I lost my Dad, and my Mom is in a facility for Alzheimer's, so he is one special cat to me.  They all are, but I was hoping to have him till he was quite old, as I am coming to find out Maine Coon's are wonderful kitties. 

Thanks so much!
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4leggersMom
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Skeeter


« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2008, 07:59:55 PM »

Jenny,

I failed to answer your questions.  The only baseline I have is from a year ago, at that time Bun was 30, now 38.  Creatinine was 3.4, now 2.7.

The Vet did not mention blood in his urine.  However looking at the test results that I had sent to me from Senior Panel it states "Blood    2+ (High) reference is Negative.  I will point this out to Vet. 

I sure did not know stress could cause crystals.  I have to board Skeeter every two months for 10 days, as I travel to see my Mom, wonder if that has created additional problems.   

Thank you.
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Nabiya
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2008, 08:05:23 PM »

4leggers, sorry to hear about the test results.  Just had my cat Natasha diagnosed with early CRF this past week as well.  But she's 18+ so we're dealing with a set of old kidneys, too.  Did you have Skeeter's thyroid level checked?  Sometimes a high thryoid level contributes to a higher BUN and creatine when in fact it's hyperthyroidism (which is curable) as opposed to renal failure.  A free T4 test will definitively tell if the regular thyroid test is suspect.  Since you mention he lost weight, too, this comes to mind for me.

Skeeter really is on the very, very early signs of CRF if that's it.  Sometimes a change of diet like you did can control the values and bring them down.  A month may not be long enough to see the end result.   I like www.felinecrf.org as a good source of valuable information and other links to help understand the disease and treatments for it.

As far as a timetable, that's a tough one.  It depends on Skeeter's age now, too.  But certainly with such an early diagnosis and proper care and treatment he'll be around for years.  My longest survivor lived to be 21 plus years old!  Hope this helps.
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