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Author Topic: CRF cat with mouth problems. Please help!  (Read 11310 times)
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Posts: 2

« on: May 01, 2008, 03:39:46 PM »

Hi everyone,

I belong to some feline lists on yahoo and it was suggested I try here.
I'll try to give a somewhat brief background. My 6 year old cat, Simba, has Polycystic Kidney Disease (diagnosed in Oct 07) and as a result is in Chronic Renal Failure. He also had a recently discovered heart problem. About a month ago he wasn't doing so well, drooling a lot and it was very tacky, smelled terrible, wanted to be around the fridge (fever maybe?), layed around most the time, and started to have trouble eating, had some blood in his drool, and soon stopped eating.
   I took him to the vet and she couldn't see any mouth ulcers (common with CRF cats) but said it was possible she could not see them. I asked he be put on antibiotics and she gave him ClinDrops. I also decided to up his sub-q fluids because they had been decreased from his heart problem and it wasn't enough hydration.
   After doing this, he started to show improvement within 2 days and got a little better every day. He was on ClinDrops for 2 weeks and was acting better than he had in awhile. Then after 1 week of being off ClinDrops, he started to show the symptoms again. So I got him back on ClinDrops last Friday, and he hasn't really shown much improvement. He is drooling a lot again. The smell isn't so bad though. He isn't interested in eating much. Sometimes he will, sometimes he won't.
  When I called his vet yesterday she said to give the antibiotics a full week and that it was possible
he could need a different antibiotic. I asked if there was anything else I could do for him, any kind of mouth cleaning, etc. She said she would not want to put him on steroids because of his kidneys and would not want to put him on anesthesia for a procedure. I try to look in his mouth, I can't really see much. But when I looked today he ended up bleeding a bit, probably from me trying to open his mouth.   
   We're going to give him a few more days on antibiotics and see if that helps. I was told it could take longer for them to work since he was previously on them. If that doesn't work we could try a different antibiotic. If not, it may be time to let him go.

I was wondering if anyone had success from mouth/teeth cleanings and if there were any other
words of advice for his situation. I'm not sure what can be done if he has ulcers taht can't be seen, or if it could be a different problem all together. It makes me sad to think there's nothing else I can do, but that day does come. I'm not sure if it's something I might be able to help him with, if maybe the vet is wrong. I have learned from this that vets don't have all the right answers.  I welcome any advice. I'll list Simba's daily meds below.

Slippery Elm Bark (I recently made the syrup version of this as well to try to help coat any mouth problems)
Aluminum Hydroxide
Pet Tinic
Dandelion Extract
Sub-Q Fluids 150ml one day, 100ml the next, and so on.


Rebecca & Simba
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2008, 04:06:05 PM »

 Hello Rebbeccry, I am so sorry your kitty is ill. I remember awhile back there was annother member whose kitty was having similar problems. This is the link to that thread.  I also found an article on mouth problems in cats.  Hopefully someone else here can offer you more info or advice.
Hero Member
Posts: 6724

« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2008, 04:11:06 PM »

I'm sorry your kitty is so ill, Rebecca. I don't have insight into the conditions but someone else here very well may have some knowledge. Meanwhile sending you prayers and purrs for healing.
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2008, 05:42:20 PM »

Rebecca, So sorry to hear about your kitty.  Several members here have had good luck with the Biotene mouth products for cats.

NedF wrote: One note about her mouth infection: In another thread, kaffe had mentioned Biotene antiseptic gel. I decided this would be the last product I would try and I tell you, her infection is much less severe after using the Biotene for about 3 weeks. She is no longer having pain from her teeth. The gums are still a little red but not the oozing stinking mess they were a month ago. I also put a half capsule of coq10 mixed in her food. I don't know if that helped or not.

Kaffe may be able to shed more light on this product as well.  Sending prayers for a quick recovery for your little guy.
Hero Member
Posts: 5178

« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2008, 05:51:00 PM »

Strange, I just posted a message here & it disappeared when I clicked Post.  Anyway, I hope you are able to find something to help Simba, Rebecca.  Here are some links that might help regarding mouth ulcers, which apparently are not uncommon in CRF kitties:

This sounds like his symptoms (this site has lots of good info on it):

Treatments she suggests:

General info, and the suggestion to use human ulcer meds:

"Mouth and tongue ulcers, common in CRF cats, can cause discomfort and may prevent a cat from eating, thus causing substantial weight loss. In some cases, ulcers may extend into the esophagus. There may be an indicative odor from the cat's mouth. The mouth should be checked frequently by you and your veterinarian. Antibiotics and human ulcer medications (compounded to cat-size dosage) are available to heal mouth ulcers"
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2008, 08:49:44 PM »

Welcome to Itchmo, Rebeccry... although I am saddened by the condition of your poor kitty that brought you here.  You said you belonged to several yahoo feline groups.  Is the CRFgroup one of those?  That excellent group has a lot of very knowlegeable, helpful and compassionate people on board and if you're not a member yet, I urge you to be one!

By what you have written, I think you suspect that your cat's lack of appetite may be due to mouth/teeth problems, especially since there seems to be a corresponding betterment when you use antibiotics.  Several of us here have had very good results with a new product called Biotene gel for severe mouth infections.  You can try this (its not expensive) and see if it will help.  I bought mine from here:

Also, the drooling may really be becuase of a bad and aching tooth (or teeth) that ideally should be extracted.  I don't know how bad your kitty's kidneys are, but perhaps you can try for a second opinion whether or not your kitty can undergo a dental under anestheia?  Maybe try an all-feline vet?  NedF's 18-yr old kitty had a dental about a year ago and we all remarked that NedF's vet must be a very very good one! 

I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help to you since I really have had no experience with CRF kitties - but plenty with mouth-problem kitties!!!
Posts: 2

« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2008, 09:45:40 AM »

Thanks for all the advice. I do belong to the CRF group. I have ordered the biotene and hopefully I'll get it by Monday or Tuesday. I priority shipped it. It sounds like Simba could have any number of dental problems. His drool is still really bad and there is an ammonia odor. I'm going to see how he is when I go home today and see if I can't get him in for an appointment to get an opinion about his teeth.

  Thanks everyone,

Long-Standing Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 211

« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2008, 08:58:49 PM »

"Bad Breath
The toxins produced by the body have an effect on the bacteria in the mouth, which can cause a very strong and distinctive odour. It is hard to describe the aroma, though once smelled, never forgotten. It is sometimes described as being an ammonia smell (like bleach) but it may smell more like urine (ammonia is a constituent of urine), though neither description really captures the smell. This smell will be particularly noticeable if the cat crashes.
Bad breath will often improve as dehydration is treated and the toxin levels in the body are controlled."

As soon as I saw "bad breath" this is what hit me. I noticed as well that you said that he improved after you resumed the sub-qs.......if Simba were mine, I'd get bloodwork done again as I suspect his numbers have shot up. I don't know what the "heart problem" is all about - so perhaps you're going to have a juggling act with regard to the sub-q's.....if you know you can increase those, though, I would - at least until I could have the bloodwork done and speak with the Vet.

This is such a tell-tale's hard to understand how people in your Yahoo group - and the Vet - would have failed to recognize it.
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